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New Pokémon Discussion

Which flying pokemon in B/W do you prefer?

  • Unfezant

    Votes: 9 4.9%
  • Swoobat

    Votes: 15 8.2%
  • Sigllyph

    Votes: 18 9.9%
  • Archeops

    Votes: 38 20.9%
  • Swanna

    Votes: 14 7.7%
  • Braviary

    Votes: 61 33.5%
  • Mandibuzz

    Votes: 7 3.8%
  • Pfffft, i'll use a legendary.

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 12 6.6%

  • Total voters
    182
  • Poll closed .

#Daisuke#

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Re: It actually barks!

Has anyone used a Muurando yet? My Haderia recently evolved, and I discovered that Muurando's cry consists of a growl, then an actual barking sound! I think that's awesome.

I was shocked when I first heard my Muurando. I squee'd, being the dog lover I am.

But wouldn't this be better to discuss in the New Pokemon Discussion Thread?
 

Geodude

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Re: It actually barks!

Sorry guys, my mistake. Merging now.
 

Jabberjaw

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Ice and Dragon together is actually a pretty bad offensive typing. Best for an alternate from would be to maybe put some of the attack stat into speed and make it very fast. Better ability and signature move wouldn't hurt either.

Signature move... I think that's what Freezebolt and Cold Flare are gonna be used for. Both have 140 power and 90 accuracy.
 

Geodude

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Just reached Fukiyose Cave and heard Kibago's cry for the first time. It sounds like it's sneezing. XD
 

Falconwing

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Geodude, how could you? LOL

I have determined the Genesect sucks in ubers. OU maybe, but he's really just a higher stat'd Scizor with no Bullet Punch/Technician combo.
 

Geodude

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How could I what? You mean the merged thread? Yeah I wasn't thinking when I posted it initially. And I merged it because I can. :p
 

R136a1

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Signature move... I think that's what Freezebolt and Cold Flare are gonna be used for. Both have 140 power and 90 accuracy.

I meant it could use a better ability and also a better signature move (the two it has now are bad). Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Geodude, how could you? LOL

I have determined the Genesect sucks in ubers. OU maybe, but he's really just a higher stat'd Scizor with no Bullet Punch/Technician combo.

Genosect isn't bad in Ubers. It works well with Kyogre due to getting Thunder and the rain mitigating its 4x fire weakness. He can one-shot certain Pokémon like Mewtwo (Bug Buzz) and Groudon (Flamethrower in sun) and with Rock Polish plus some speed EVs Genosect can outrun positive nature choice scarf Darkrai after a boost. Good resistances help as well; for example, resistance to ice beam and extreme speed allows this poke to revenge kill Jolly Dragon Dance Raquaza.

But yeah, OU is where this thing destroys. It should be a lot of fun to use it there.
 

Joshawott

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I meant it could use a better ability and also a better signature move (the two it has now are bad). Sorry if I wasn't clear.



Genosect isn't bad in Ubers. It works well with Kyogre due to getting Thunder and the rain mitigating its 4x fire weakness. He can one-shot certain Pokémon like Mewtwo (Bug Buzz) and Groudon (Flamethrower in sun) and with Rock Polish plus some speed EVs Genosect can outrun positive nature choice scarf Darkrai after a boost. Good resistances help as well; for example, resistance to ice beam and extreme speed allows this poke to revenge kill Jolly Dragon Dance Raquaza.

But yeah, OU is where this thing destroys. It should be a lot of fun to use it there.
Then wouldn't it make more sense if Genosect is Uber?
 

RudolphMilotic

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Genosect isn't bad in Ubers. It works well with Kyogre due to getting Thunder and the rain mitigating its 4x fire weakness. He can one-shot certain Pokémon like Mewtwo (Bug Buzz) and Groudon (Flamethrower in sun) and with Rock Polish plus some speed EVs Genosect can outrun positive nature choice scarf Darkrai after a boost. Good resistances help as well; for example, resistance to ice beam and extreme speed allows this poke to revenge kill Jolly Dragon Dance Raquaza.

But yeah, OU is where this thing destroys. It should be a lot of fun to use it there.

Genosect doesn't OHKO Groudon with Flamethrower unless it got a Modest nature and Life Orb, a moveset that can be easily countered by a Jolly Groudon with Fire Punch or Overheat. Besides, giving that many Pokémon in Übers have better Sp. Defense than Defense, Genosect will have a harder time getting a Download boost for the right stat. I don't know why Game Freak gave to Genosect a good Attack stat without a good physical movepool to back it up.

Moreover, with 71/95/95 defenses it won't last that long in the Übers environment, even taking into account its resistances (full damage from Water-type attacks, neutral damage from Thunder, etc.). Revenge killing Dragon Dance Rayquaza would be only a dream for it unless Rayquaza has not used more than one Dragon Dance or lacks a Fire-type attack, which albeit possible, is a rare occurrence.

And I don't know, but even in OU this Pokémon has a lot of problems, notably being slower than many offensive species and lacking a good STAB aside from Bug Buzz. In my opinion, Genosect is just a more bulkier (though not by much) and slightly faster version of Porygon-Z, with less Sp. Attack, no Nasty Plot and some problems in the support department. Game Freak failed horribly at trying to imitate the success of the Multitype ability of Arceus with Genosect's cassettes and its Techno Buster signature attack.
 

GHU Jockmaster

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look at his moveset again. His Hard Roller has 65 power and also a 30% flinch rate. While poison isn't a great offensive typing it is a excellent Defensive Typing. Pendra Bug/Poison means his weak to only Earth and Psychic.

Actually it's more like Psychic, Rock, Fire, and Flying
 

R136a1

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Then wouldn't it make more sense if Genosect is Uber?

I'm not totally sure what you're saying here (sorry), but I'm gonna say no?

Genosect doesn't OHKO Groudon with Flamethrower unless it got a Modest nature and Life Orb, a moveset that can be easily countered by a Jolly Groudon with Fire Punch or Overheat. Besides, giving that many Pokémon in Übers have better Sp. Defense than Defense, Genosect will have a harder time getting a Download boost for the right stat. I don't know why Game Freak gave to Genosect a good Attack stat without a good physical movepool to back it up.

Moreover, with 71/95/95 defenses it won't last that long in the Übers environment, even taking into account its resistances (full damage from Water-type attacks, neutral damage from Thunder, etc.). Revenge killing Dragon Dance Rayquaza would be only a dream for it unless Rayquaza has not used more than one Dragon Dance or lacks a Fire-type attack, which albeit possible, is a rare occurrence.

And I don't know, but even in OU this Pokémon has a lot of problems, notably being slower than many offensive species and lacking a good STAB aside from Bug Buzz. In my opinion, Genosect is just a more bulkier (though not by much) and slightly faster version of Porygon-Z, with less Sp. Attack, no Nasty Plot and some problems in the support department. Game Freak failed horribly at trying to imitate the success of the Multitype ability of Arceus with Genosect's cassettes and its Techno Buster signature attack.

Okay, okay, I'll admit Genosect isn't the best Ubers but "sucks" just seemed too strong a word for me. You must know more about Ubers than me so you win. It should be noted, though, that about Groudon, a Jolly one isn't a problem if you have Rock Polish.

Anyhow I definitely think Genosect does very well in OU. First let's address the speed complaint. 99 base speed is incredibly stupid but what makes this thing so much better than Porygon-Z is it's set-up move, Rock Polish. With 228 speed EVs, Genosect outspeeds positive nature base 125 speed Pokémon with a choice scarf after a rock polish. This is really great, as for the most part you can practically be sure your Genosect will hit first. Plus, its great special movepool gives it great coverage, and Bug is an acceptable attacking type.

As you said, Genosect is bulkier than Porygon-Z. While is may not that much numbers wise, the typing is very good. Genosect isn't weak to fighting priority like Z and also resists Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Sucker Punch, and, as already mentioned, extreme speed. This makes it fast and hard to revenge kill, much unlike Z. Porygon-Z does get agility, but just dies so much easier and Normal is a far worse STAB, so when it comes to speed boosting Genosect's you can see bulk and type give it a critical advantage.

Genosect has some things it can't get around though, such as the obvious Blissy and Erufuun (which seems to counter all set-up sweepers this gen with its priority encore). Thus Genosect is best used as a cleaner late game, when annoying Pokémon like this are out of the way. Then you send Geno in on a poke that will give you a favorable Download boost (not too difficult to obtain due to many OU Pokémon have better Defense than Special Defense) and kill with your good Special Attack and massive coverage. Stealth Rock or prior damage is needed to get important OHKOs though (with Modest and Life Orb).

All in all, I think you can see that while Genosect may not be the best in Ubers (although he can still kill stuff and doesn't necessarily "suck"), it is very usable in OU and basically a BETTER Porygon-Z. Oh, and Techno Buster is bad, but I guess the water one could be useful for Wifi since you can't get good HP Water without some considerable effort. Too bad it means no Life Orb.
 

Youngster_Joey

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Genosect doesn't OHKO Groudon with Flamethrower unless it got a Modest nature and Life Orb, a moveset that can be easily countered by a Jolly Groudon with Fire Punch or Overheat. Besides, giving that many Pokémon in Übers have better Sp. Defense than Defense, Genosect will have a harder time getting a Download boost for the right stat. I don't know why Game Freak gave to Genosect a good Attack stat without a good physical movepool to back it up.

Moreover, with 71/95/95 defenses it won't last that long in the Übers environment, even taking into account its resistances (full damage from Water-type attacks, neutral damage from Thunder, etc.). Revenge killing Dragon Dance Rayquaza would be only a dream for it unless Rayquaza has not used more than one Dragon Dance or lacks a Fire-type attack, which albeit possible, is a rare occurrence.

And I don't know, but even in OU this Pokémon has a lot of problems, notably being slower than many offensive species and lacking a good STAB aside from Bug Buzz. In my opinion, Genosect is just a more bulkier (though not by much) and slightly faster version of Porygon-Z, with less Sp. Attack, no Nasty Plot and some problems in the support department. Game Freak failed horribly at trying to imitate the success of the Multitype ability of Arceus with Genosect's cassettes and its Techno Buster signature attack.
You don't seem to consider that Ubers is not a balanced tier to begin with. It's a banlist for pokemon too strong for the OU environment. It doesn't matter if it doesn't fit well in Ubers, only if it proves too powerful for OU.

Other than that, I can't deny that Genosect has many counters. It can easily be out-sped and hit with a super-effective STAB by Shandara, and in general it has many reliable counters.

When the tiering is established, I say it's going to BL at best.
 
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RudolphMilotic

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Okay, okay, I'll admit Genosect isn't the best Ubers but "sucks" just seemed too strong a word for me. You must know more about Ubers than me so you win. It should be noted, though, that about Groudon, a Jolly one isn't a problem if you have Rock Polish.

Remember that Groudon also learns Rock Polish, so at the same time it can be a problem for Genosect as it would have to be Timid to outspeed Groudon, losing the secure OHKO with Flamethrower. I don't want to jump to definitive conclusions because we don't have a G-V Singles metagame yet (and in my case, Singles tiers aren't my speciality), but for the looks of Genosect's utility and the Pokémon around it, it actually stinks in Übers.

Genosect has some things it can't get around though, such as the obvious Blissy and Erufuun (which seems to counter all set-up sweepers this gen with its priority encore). Thus Genosect is best used as a cleaner late game, when annoying Pokémon like this are out of the way. Then you send Geno in on a poke that will give you a favorable Download boost (not too difficult to obtain due to many OU Pokémon have better Defense than Special Defense) and kill with your good Special Attack and massive coverage. Stealth Rock or prior damage is needed to get important OHKOs though (with Modest and Life Orb)

The main problem I see with Genosect is that it relies too much on Rock Polish to be able to outspeed things, which in turn means that you can bring any specially defensive Pokémon and stall its attacks. Erufuun isn't that much of a problem one you realize it's pretty fragile and weak to 3 out of the 6 attacks you'll likely see on a Genosect (Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Bug Buzz and to a lesser extent, Tri Attack and Water-type Techno Buster), though there are other Pokémon to watch out such as Dusknoir, Blissey, Probopass, Bastiodon and Evolution Stone Porygon2/Dusclops/Chansey. Dusclops and Dusknoir in particular have pretty good Sp. Defense, resist the STAB attacks of Genosect and with Dusknoir you can actually expect to OHKO it with Fire Punch.

On the other hand, if you factor in that Rock Polish takes a moveslot, you'll end with only three remaining and you'll have to choose between Bug Buzz and two other attacks or the three "elemental beams" and no STAB, which may lead to other counters as well. Add to the previous statement that many offensive Pokémon carry Fire-type attacks with them thanks to the current metagame and the awareness of Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory and/or the newcomer Nattorei being present on almost every team and Genosect will have less chances to shine.

By the way, I like Genosect (I love Sp. Attackers) and when I saw its type combo, stats, the name of its signature attack and Download I instantly thought "I'm speechless", though after I witnessed how it performed in-battle, the lame event it got and the disappointment of the cassettes, I changed my mind. It's not a bad Pokémon by any means but suffers from some key problems that hinder its usability. I hope Game Freak realize how they screwed Genosect and fix it with new moves and/or Formes in the third version. At the moment, I'm more pleased with Step Forme Meloetta -despite its limitations with Ancient Song- and Keludio -barring the fact of its limited movepool- out of the four event Pokémon of this generation (I'm not counting Zorua and Zoroark).

Youngster_Joey said:
You don't seem to consider that Ubers is not a balanced tier to begin with. It's a banlist for pokemon too strong for the OU environment. It doesn't matter if it doesn't fit well in Ubers, only if it proves too powerful for OU.

You're the one that is assuming things: I never stated that Genosect doesn't belong in the Über environment but instead that if it ends being there (which I doubt because even in OU it lacks some key things to truly be considered 'overpowered') it won't perform well. Perhaps I don't play or enjoy Singles as much as other people but I know how the hierarchy system works and the basic terminology behind of its fundation.
 
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Food Lover Oz

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Someone please explain something to me... why is the new trio called the "Musketeer Trio"? All of the other trios have been named for their appearances (Bird, Beast, Golem, and Sprite). The second trio is called the Genie Trio, again based upon appearance. What's with the musketeer thing?
 

potatomon

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Someone please explain something to me... why is the new trio called the "Musketeer Trio"? All of the other trios have been named for their appearances (Bird, Beast, Golem, and Sprite). The second trio is called the Genie Trio, again based upon appearance. What's with the musketeer thing?

They're based off of the story of the 3 Musketeers. Each of them actually correspond to one of the musketeers, even the fourth member, Keldeo.
 

Food Lover Oz

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Thanks, Cheren. It was as I figured: story driven name instead of appearance. I'm not really bothered by it; I just didn't know why.

Actually, I'm kinda looking forward to seeing their story play out in the game now. ^___^
 
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