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New Pokémon Discussion

Which flying pokemon in B/W do you prefer?

  • Unfezant

    Votes: 9 4.9%
  • Swoobat

    Votes: 15 8.2%
  • Sigllyph

    Votes: 18 9.9%
  • Archeops

    Votes: 38 20.9%
  • Swanna

    Votes: 14 7.7%
  • Braviary

    Votes: 61 33.5%
  • Mandibuzz

    Votes: 7 3.8%
  • Pfffft, i'll use a legendary.

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 12 6.6%

  • Total voters
    182
  • Poll closed .

The Outrage

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They're based off of the story of the 3 Musketeers. Each of them actually correspond to one of the musketeers, even the fourth member, Keldeo.
The closest thing they could manage was Keldo being the fourth member, Cobalon being the oldest, Terrakion being the heavy-hitter (which I don't recall being mentioned anywhere) and the last guy corresponding as "the best sword fighter"--again, not mentioned anywhere.

No one seems to be mentioning parallels from the actual stories.

Abridged version from TVTropes on the premise:

In the year 1625, d'Artagnan, the son of a noble but poor family, left his home in Gascony and headed to Paris to follow a dream; become a Musketeer of the Guard, one of the most prestigious military units in the whole of France. Armed with only his courage and a letter of introduction from his father, d'Artagnan heads out.

Keldeo didn't seek out the other fighting deer. It was orphaned in a human war and the others took pity on it.

So someone, please give a better argument than "it just is"
 
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Eitarou

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The closest thing they could manage was Keldo being the fourth member, Cobalon being the oldest (which I don't recall being mentioned anywhere) and the last guy corresponding as "the best sword fighter"--again, not mentioned anywhere.

No one seems to be mentioning parallels from the actual stories.

have you even seen their origins on Bulba?

there is more than..wait

no one's mentioned any of those things being associated with Cobalon and ..whichever
 

The Outrage

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have you even seen their origins on Bulba?

there is more than..wait

no one's mentioned any of those things being associated with Cobalon and ..whichever
So, have I read what is basically the most subjective part of a fan encyclopedia?

Yes, yes I did.

Cobalon:
Origin

Cobalon appears to be based on the character of Athos from the novel The Three Musketeers. Like Athos, he is the oldest and the de facto leader of the group. It also bears close resemblance to a markhor or an antelope species such as the greater kudu or eland.
Terrakion
Origin

Terrakion appears to be based on the character of Porthos from the novel The Three Musketeers. Like Porthos, he is the heaviest, largest, and strongest member of the trio. It also resembles an ox.
Virizion
Origin

Virizion appears to be based on the character of Aramis from the novel The Three Musketeers. Like Aramis, it is the best at swordplay. Aramis in the novels was also the most feminine, vain, and romantic, qualities that Virizion possesses relative to its comrades. It also resembles an antelope.

Now, I'm not going to doubt what is mentioned about the muskiteers, they're clearly sourced.

However, apart from Terrakion, where does it say that Cobalon is the leader and that it is the eldest?

Where does it say Virizion is the best sword fighter? It's dex entry only alludes to its fighting style, no where near mentioning that it is the best.

I already went over Keldeo.

Now please, give me something other than "it just is"
 

Jabberjaw

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Outrage, I also don't see how Virizon can be the best at swordplay, especially with a much lower attack than Terakion. These parts of the articles in bulbapedia are completely subjective data. The way they compared the "three" is based on merely suggestive guidance. It seems as if they just handed each pokemon the persona of a muskuteer without a shred of evidence. But I don't mind the comparisons. They can be called the Muskuteer's without each one taking a Muskuteer's persona per se.

Now for personal opinion...

Terrakion has the best design and stats of the Three.
Virizion's shiny form looks better to me.
Cobalon. Looks VERY VERY similar to Dialga.
The FOURTH muskuteer... Keldeo has the best stats. like the design.

ALSO, I think Kyurem is a part of a dragon trio, but there isn't much evidence to support that yet is there? I hope they give it an alternate form and ect... but it hasn't been done YET. It doesnt have a sig ability like Zekrom and Reshiram nor the same type of tail. Is there any evidence to support a trio?
 

Envoy

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ALSO, I think Kyurem is a part of a dragon trio, but there isn't much evidence to support that yet is there? I hope they give it an alternate form and ect... but it hasn't been done YET. It doesnt have a sig ability like Zekrom and Reshiram nor the same type of tail. Is there any evidence to support a trio?

That no one else fits the bill?
 

Stuntology

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But, why are the 'three musketeer' pokemon considered a trio, not a quartet? Keldeo is obviously a member of the group, so I think they should be classed differently. (And just becasue they're based on a group with '3' in its name doesn't make them a trio.)
 

The Outrage

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But, why are the 'three musketeer' pokemon considered a trio, not a quartet? Keldeo is obviously a member of the group, so I think they should be classed differently. (And just becasue they're based on a group with '3' in its name doesn't make them a trio.)

The same reason why Ho-Oh isn't part of its Beast trio...kind of.

The trio existed before Keldeo did. Keldeo was basically their adoptive child they took care of after being orphaned in a war. While not being the trio leader, the way its set up, Keldeo is more like the trio's successor.

See, a completely valid explanation, yet on Bulbapedia and the Musketeer talk page, someone justified it by sating Keldeo was D'Artagnan...not really explaining anything other than the inherent "they're based on the musketeers therefore..." rather than using the traits they do have to justify their argument.
ALSO, I think Kyurem is a part of a dragon trio, but there isn't much evidence to support that yet is there? I hope they give it an alternate form and ect... but it hasn't been done YET. It doesnt have a sig ability like Zekrom and Reshiram nor the same type of tail. Is there any evidence to support a trio?

Actually, as much evidence as Keldeo has for being related to the Musketeer trio (if you didn't know its back story), though most is locked up in unused data (for now).

First is the electric-fire-ice theme, along with the secondary dragon typing.

Next is its Ice signature move, Frozen World.

Then there's the thematic element in that Zekrom and Reshiram are basically energy dragons, while something being cold is usually due to the lack of thermal energy. Kyurem essentially balances the other two.

Then there's the unused ice moves akin to Keldeo's unused Mystery Sword: Cold flare and Freeze bolt

There's also the unused God Stone complementing the Light and Dark stone. It's described as a "phantom stone"--and note how Kyurem is a "lack of energy"

There's quite a bit of evidence right there.

Now the evidence for them being musketeers? The best you've given me was how there doesn't need to be evidence for these assumptions, when clearly Kyurem does have a lot.
 
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Venator

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So Kyurem was originally meant to be a mixed attacker then? I suppose it isn't that shocking considering its stats but those moves... wow.
 

The Outrage

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So Kyurem was originally meant to be a mixed attacker then? I suppose it isn't that shocking considering its stats but those moves... wow.

I wouldn't say "originally" since it probably still is. If anything, these moves are being held off for the third version.

I wouldn't be in too much awe since those moves, apart from their nice twist, seems to execute themselves in the same manner as Sky Attack (though that move is called God bird)
 

RudolphMilotic

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I wouldn't be in too much awe since those moves, apart from their nice twist, seems to execute themselves in the same manner as Sky Attack (though that move is called God bird)

In fact, those moves actually do act exactly the same as Sky Attack: I already had the chance of see them in action, and unless you use Power Herb, it was a bad move on Game Freak's part to program them as such, although at the very least their animations are good. Even I now consider that Roar of Time is a better attack >_>.
 

Venator

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An interesting twist, I must say. I did not know about those moves before reading about them just now. This is going to be an interesting third version, I believe.
 

The Outrage

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In fact, those moves actually do act exactly the same as Sky Attack: I already had the chance of see them in action, and unless you use Power Herb, it was a bad move on Game Freak's part to program them as such, although at the very least their animations are good. Even I now consider that Roar of Time is a better attack >_>.

Yeah, it would have been nice if it didn't have that draw back...after all its legendary, its one of the few things that can get away with game-breaking moves, though I'm not sure how game breaking it would be.

Not like it could be any more game breaking than Vicitini and V-generate. STAB 180 base power move from a 100 base ATK that's guaranteed to lower both defenses and speed?

Oh wow, its draw back is that there's a 5% chance it won't hit -_-
 

RudolphMilotic

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Oh wow, its draw back is that there's a 5% chance it won't hit -_-

Though remember that Victory Star also increases the accuracy of Victini's attacks, so there it goes the main drawback of the move...

Regardless of the above, many people think Victini will die easily from Stealth Rock and Pursuit, but with the right support, a moveset such as V-Generate/Zen Headbutt/Wild Bolt/U-Turn with Choice Scarf/Band has the potential to cause a lot of problems for the opponent.
 

Falconwing

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On the Musketeers, Cobalon is the first of them (leaderlike) and has a beard (age). Terakion is obviously the biggest and bulkiest (like Porthos) and Viridion is very feminine. They are a trio of legendary swordfighters associated with castles and wars, and they have a younger fourth member in their team with a giant plume on his head.

It's vague, but the references are there.
 

Super Seaking

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Yeah, it would have been nice if it didn't have that draw back...after all its legendary, its one of the few things that can get away with game-breaking moves, though I'm not sure how game breaking it would be.

Not like it could be any more game breaking than Vicitini and V-generate. STAB 180 base power move from a 100 base ATK that's guaranteed to lower both defenses and speed?

Oh wow, its draw back is that there's a 5% chance it won't hit -_-
No, it lowers the stats of the user, aka Victini. So basically its Close Combat on steroids, with an added Speed drop.
 
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Jabberjaw

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That no one else fits the bill?

Not a very good answer considering it could be a dragon DUO only. I think it's going to be a trio, but what evidence is there really to support it yet?
 

The Outrage

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Though remember that Victory Star also increases the accuracy of Victini's attacks, so there it goes the main drawback of the move...

Regardless of the above, many people think Victini will die easily from Stealth Rock and Pursuit, but with the right support, a moveset such as V-Generate/Zen Headbutt/Wild Bolt/U-Turn with Choice Scarf/Band has the potential to cause a lot of problems for the opponent.

I don't see how Stealth Rock is that big a threat now when its availability has been reduced unless people want to lock their Pokemon from new movesets and that there is now aiming mark.
Not a very good answer considering it could be a dragon DUO only. I think it's going to be a trio, but what evidence is there really to support it yet?
My post which you clearly didn't read:

Actually, as much evidence as Keldeo has for being related to the Musketeer trio (if you didn't know its back story), though most is locked up in unused data (for now).

First is the electric-fire-ice theme, along with the secondary dragon typing.

Next is its Ice signature move, Frozen World.

Then there's the thematic element in that Zekrom and Reshiram are basically energy dragons, while something being cold is usually due to the lack of thermal energy. Kyurem essentially balances the other two.

Then there's the unused ice moves akin to Keldeo's unused Mystery Sword: Cold flare and Freeze bolt

There's also the unused God Stone complementing the Light and Dark stone. It's described as a "phantom stone"--and note how Kyurem is a "lack of energy"

There's quite a bit of evidence right there.

Now the evidence for them being musketeers? The best you've given me was how there doesn't need to be evidence for these assumptions, when clearly Kyurem does have a lot.
 

Super Seaking

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I pretty much have my entire Black team nicknamed...

Jalorda- Smuglord, of course!
Kokoromori- Pseudobat. I always like to get a Crobat each Gen, but since its not available, this will act as a substitute.
Waruvial- Not really sure....suggestions would be nice.
Burungeru- Sir Gellington the 3rd.....but I can only fit in Gellington. Thanks alot, GameFreak.
Denchura- Archo, after a pet praying mantis I used to have.
Kuitaran- Antiant.....lol pun.

So, you guys think of any nicknames yet?
 
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