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New Pokémon Discussion

Which flying pokemon in B/W do you prefer?

  • Unfezant

    Votes: 9 4.9%
  • Swoobat

    Votes: 15 8.2%
  • Sigllyph

    Votes: 18 9.9%
  • Archeops

    Votes: 38 20.9%
  • Swanna

    Votes: 14 7.7%
  • Braviary

    Votes: 61 33.5%
  • Mandibuzz

    Votes: 7 3.8%
  • Pfffft, i'll use a legendary.

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 12 6.6%

  • Total voters
    182
  • Poll closed .

Sanic Hegehog

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Maybe naming Waruvial "Kasplat", like those tough sunglasses wearing Kremlins from Donkey Kong 64.
 

R136a1

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This thread moves too fast. :(

The main problem I see with Genosect is that it relies too much on Rock Polish to be able to outspeed things, which in turn means that you can bring any specially defensive Pokémon and stall its attacks. Erufuun isn't that much of a problem one you realize it's pretty fragile and weak to 3 out of the 6 attacks you'll likely see on a Genosect (Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Bug Buzz and to a lesser extent, Tri Attack and Water-type Techno Buster), though there are other Pokémon to watch out such as Dusknoir, Blissey, Probopass, Bastiodon and Evolution Stone Porygon2/Dusclops/Chansey. Dusclops and Dusknoir in particular have pretty good Sp. Defense, resist the STAB attacks of Genosect and with Dusknoir you can actually expect to OHKO it with Fire Punch.

On the other hand, if you factor in that Rock Polish takes a moveslot, you'll end with only three remaining and you'll have to choose between Bug Buzz and two other attacks or the three "elemental beams" and no STAB, which may lead to other counters as well. Add to the previous statement that many offensive Pokémon carry Fire-type attacks with them thanks to the current metagame and the awareness of Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory and/or the newcomer Nattorei being present on almost every team and Genosect will have less chances to shine.

By the way, I like Genosect (I love Sp. Attackers) and when I saw its type combo, stats, the name of its signature attack and Download I instantly thought "I'm speechless", though after I witnessed how it performed in-battle, the lame event it got and the disappointment of the cassettes, I changed my mind. It's not a bad Pokémon by any means but suffers from some key problems that hinder its usability. I hope Game Freak realize how they screwed Genosect and fix it with new moves and/or Formes in the third version. At the moment, I'm more pleased with Step Forme Meloetta -despite its limitations with Ancient Song- and Keludio -barring the fact of its limited movepool- out of the four event Pokémon of this generation (I'm not counting Zorua and Zoroark).

Remember, I said Genosect is a late game sweeper. This means you don't bring it out until the specially defensive wall is dead. Many Pokémon work this way, and its why you have a team of six. For attacks, a set of Bug Buzz, Flamethrower, and Thunderbolt works well. This hits almost everything for neutral damage (but not everything), and with Rock Polish Genosect will destroy popular pokes like Gyrados, most forms of Metagross (all with a Download boost), Breloom, Celebi, and more.

More calcs, assuming a Download boost, Modest, and Life Orb:
Bug Buzz vs 252/0 Swampert = 80% - 95% (8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Bug Buzz vs 4/0 Garchomp = 94% - 111% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Thunderbolt vs 252/0 Suicune = 92% - 108% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Bug Buzz vs 252/0 Tyranitar in SS = 98% - 116% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Thunderbolt vs 4/0 Shanderaa = 87% - 103% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Credit to Lee from Smogon for these.

So Geno can kill pretty well, even if your attack isn't SE, not that it's too hard to find an SE move against many pokes with the moveset I gave. It won't matter what Pokémon are packing fire moves if they can't survive a hit first. Besides, being 4x weak to fire isn't that debilitating- just don't keep Genosect in against them. Plus Genosect can do well against some of these Pokémon with Download boost. Shanderaa? Kill it unless bulky types become popular for some reason. Infernape? Kill it. Magnezone? Kill it. Heatran? Wait until it's dead to bring Genosect out, or weaken it just a little mid game and kill it yourself later (Thunderbolt does between about 70%-80% to Heat). Rotom-H? Okay yeah, GTFO of there, although you can still do about half damage to even defensive ones.

No one's saying Genosect has no counters. But once those counters are gone or even simply weakened, there will be absolutely nothing stopping a sweep, especially if you net the Download boost. I can't think of many Special Attackers who can do something like this. Maybe NP Azelf or NP Togekiss? Well, there's Mothra now too I guess. Actually Mothra can rape Geno lol. But that's what rocks are for.

Last but not least, Genosect is somewhat versitile and can do more than Rock Polish or use the attacks I listed. You can try Choice Scarf to revenge kill with great coverage. Ice Beam it up if you want to slay dragons; Techno Buster Water (or HP Water) to give those Fire Types a nasty surprise. Of course Genosect can't do everything at once, but unpredictability greatly benefits a Pokémon. If you like Genosect, you really shouldn't feel disappointed. Where did you see Genosect doing poorly in battle? Just remember: Genosect kills lots of things late game. It's quite good. Gamefreak didn't mess it up.

I don't see how Stealth Rock is that big a threat now when its availability has been reduced unless people want to lock their Pokemon from new movesets and that there is now aiming mark.

Stealth Rock still enjoys widespread use from older Pokémon getting it and as far as I know these Pokémon don't care much about new movesets. The metagame is still super early, but so far SR has been as common as ever. Aiming Mark does not eliminate the immunities of the opponent's Pokémon, but of your Pokémon, so spinblocking still works.
 

The Outrage

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Stealth Rock still enjoys widespread use from older Pokémon getting it and as far as I know these Pokémon don't care much about new movesets. The metagame is still super early, but so far SR has been as common as ever. Aiming Mark does not eliminate the immunities of the opponent's Pokémon, but of your Pokémon, so spinblocking still works.

Yeah, and when Gen IV was just starting, Gen III strategies still seemed to dominate. Some people don't like giving up the old.

And that is just an awful item :/
 

Xellos-_^

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Yeah, and when Gen IV was just starting, Gen III strategies still seemed to dominate. Some people don't like giving up the old.

And that is just an awful item :/

i doubt anyone is giving up SR anytime soon. it is just too useful against some of the biggest threats in the metagame.
 

RudolphMilotic

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Last but not least, Genosect is somewhat versitile and can do more than Rock Polish or use the attacks I listed. You can try Choice Scarf to revenge kill with great coverage. Ice Beam it up if you want to slay dragons; Techno Buster Water (or HP Water) to give those Fire Types a nasty surprise. Of course Genosect can't do everything at once, but unpredictability greatly benefits a Pokémon. If you like Genosect, you really shouldn't feel disappointed. Where did you see Genosect doing poorly in battle? Just remember: Genosect kills lots of things late game. It's quite good. Gamefreak didn't mess it up.

One of my friends brought White and since the past two weeks or so he has been generating teams with the help of an AR, thus I have witnessed many Wi-Fi Single battles with a lot of Pokémon, one of them being Genosect and he has a hard time even with Pokémon currently labeled as 'OU' (for the Generation IV metagame).

Choice Scarf is actually the best strategy for Genosect, though again, the item fits more Porygon-Z giving the better Sp. Attack stat it got and Trick (the only things it lacks are Flamethrower and Water-type Techno Buster). And you didn't need to post stuff that I can easily calculate or point out for myself, so my opinion stands and I still think Genosect is a disappointing event Pokémon, despite how much you want to defend it. Wait for some months to have a true G-V metagame and perhaps I could change my mind.

Outrage said:
I don't see how Stealth Rock is that big a threat now when its availability has been reduced unless people want to lock their Pokemon from new movesets and that there is now aiming mark.

Aside from what R136a already mentioned, many of the Pokémon that get Stealth Rock from the Generation IV TM don't sport useful DW abilities or new egg moves (Metagross, Swampert), or didn't even receive anything new at all (Azelf) so most of them can easily be transferred from the old games to BW with just a few changes to their movesets. Besides, I don't think entry hazards will see less play than before: back in the Generation III days, Spikes was already overused in the Singles environment and the advent of DPtHGSS only introduced more toys to them in the form of SR and Toxic Spikes, pretty much confirming them as a necessity rather than a disruptive alternative.
 
Last edited:

CypherFDP

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Oh man, Hard Stone makes Dangoro perfect in early game.

I had the luck of catching one that came with it.
 

Sanic Hegehog

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I'd recommend using a Dangoro for the second gym in the game actually. High defense and normal resistances is great against the abundance of Normal types.
 

R136a1

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One of my friends bought White and since the past two weeks or so he has been generating teams with the help of an AR, thus I have witnessed many Wi-Fi Single battles with a lot of Pokémon, one of them being Genosect and he has a hard time even with Pokémon currently labeled as 'OU' (for the Generation IV metagame).

Choice Scarf is actually the best strategy for Genosect, though again, the item fits more Porygon-Z giving the better Sp. Attack stat it got and Trick (the only things it lacks are Flamethrower and Water-type Techno Buster). And you didn't need to post stuff that I can easily calculate or point out for myself, so my opinion stands and I still think Genosect is a disappointing event Pokémon, despite how much you want to defend it. Wait for some months to have a true G-V metagame and perhaps I could change my mind.

Well, I guess we'll wait a few months then. By that time we should know how good Genosect is. And I suspect one of us is going to get to tell the other, "I told you so". Good day. :)
 

Jabberjaw

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Lol why in the world is the new steel ant's dream world ability TRAUNT. 'I caught an Aiant! wtf... it keeps loafing around...'
 

winstein

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TrollFreak decided truant would be a good ability XD

Well, one of Aianto's moves is Befriend, which makes the opponent Pokemon the same ability as the user. Though not very useful in singles due to the limited strategy involved (both Pokemon must switch!), it may give Pokemon that relies on staying a reason to get out. Although, Hustle is the arguably better ability anyway.

Also, I noticed some people refers to Gamefreak as "troll" by calling the company names (like what you did there). Did you (and they) do this for fun, or are you (and they) really serious about this? And also, why did you call them this?

Thanks for reading.
 

Sanic Hegehog

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Also, I noticed some people refers to Gamefreak as "troll" by calling the company names (like what you did there). Did you (and they) do this for fun, or are you (and they) really serious about this? And also, why did you call them this?

Its generally to compare Game Freak with Internet Trolls. Some stuff that may strike this name includes overpowering certain stuff, crippling Pokemon with horrible abilities, stats, or moves pools, bizarre evolution, distribution disappointment etc. You get the idea, anything that Game Freak does that could be considered "trolling".
 

winstein

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Its generally to compare Game Freak with Internet Trolls. Some stuff that may strike this name includes overpowering certain stuff, crippling Pokemon with horrible abilities, stats, or moves pools, bizarre evolution, distribution disappointment etc. You get the idea, anything that Game Freak does that could be considered "trolling".

So does that mean that because they are disappointed with the way things turn out, they blame them? I mean, I don't know how Game Freak creates balance in the metagame, but I do know that certain decisions are made for the sake for the balance and some...questionable that GameFreak only knows why.

Thanks for reading.
 

m190049

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I kind of like all the legendaries in this generation largely for one sole reason.
They aren't gigantic deities that formed the fabric of the universe.
Like generation 1 & 2, they're just "random powerful Pokemon" again.

THERE'S MY 2 CENTS. *Flies away*
 

Morru

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Lol why in the world is the new steel ant's dream world ability TRAUNT. 'I caught an Aiant! wtf... it keeps loafing around...'
And yet ants are supposed to be hard working creatures. tch.
 

Yabukuron

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Truant

If I here "Trollfreak" once more, I swear, I shall punch an ant. Overusing something kills the joke.

Anywho. I am shameless at sweeping people with Overconfidence + Waruvial.
 

Venator

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I thought it was widely known that GameFreak doesn't care about the metagame at this point? People can go ahead and label them as trolls but come on! The metagame is a fan-developed thing, not a GameFreak developed thing.
 

Ivysaur

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I thought it was widely known that GameFreak doesn't care about the metagame at this point? People can go ahead and label them as trolls but come on! The metagame is a fan-developed thing, not a GameFreak developed thing.

I don't know about that. It's the least of their worries, but for example... Speed Boost Blaziken? Obviously done to allow Blaziken to compete with Infernape. Drought Ninetales? To allow Ninetales to compete among then-better Fire-types.

Not to mention move tutors, the ever-updated breeding mechanics, EVs and IVs... All of it was done to bring some depth into the games and to appeal to the older fans.
 
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