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New Pokémon Discussion

Which flying pokemon in B/W do you prefer?

  • Unfezant

    Votes: 9 4.9%
  • Swoobat

    Votes: 15 8.2%
  • Sigllyph

    Votes: 18 9.9%
  • Archeops

    Votes: 38 20.9%
  • Swanna

    Votes: 14 7.7%
  • Braviary

    Votes: 61 33.5%
  • Mandibuzz

    Votes: 7 3.8%
  • Pfffft, i'll use a legendary.

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 12 6.6%

  • Total voters
    182
  • Poll closed .

Venator

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And what about all the poor Pokemon disregarded all the way down to NU and UU (not that we have the lists yet)? Do you really think that Game Freak would want to label around 20-40 of their creations "more useful than the others" ala OU?

Game Freak supports the metagame but doesn't do much to affect it beyond things that allow non-WiFi trainers to test different strategies in-game with the Battle Towers and similar.

Also, Blaziken, while slower, was always better than Infernape because it was bulkier. Even without Speed Boost and Brave Bird, it could kick Infernape's ***.

Also, and this is from Smogon, the Baton Pass Speed Boost Blaziken was supposedly labeled "Blaziken's best set". This is BS considering Blaziken's high mixed atttacker potential and just Physical/Special attacker potential.
 

Ivysaur

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Game Freak supports the metagame but doesn't do much to affect it beyond things that allow non-WiFi trainers to test different strategies in-game with the Battle Towers and similar.

This was my point. It's among the least of their concerns, but they do ultimately pay at least a little attention to it.

As far as the rest NU/UU Pokemon go, most of those Pokemon will never improve unless their stats are retconned, which wouldn't be possible with these games given the fact there's compatibility with earlier generations.

Also, Blaziken, while slower, was always better than Infernape because it was bulkier. Even without Speed Boost and Brave Bird, it could kick Infernape's ***.

Potentially one-on-one Blaziken could defeat Infernape depending on its moveset and EV spread, but it's no question Infernape performed far better in the OU environment.

Also, and this is from Smogon, the Baton Pass Speed Boost Blaziken was supposedly labeled "Blaziken's best set". This is BS considering Blaziken's high mixed atttacker potential and just Physical/Special attacker potential.

Smogon probably meant its best set without trying to do something Infernape does, only better.
 

Xellos-_^

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Also, Blaziken, while slower, was always better than Infernape because it was bulkier. Even without Speed Boost and Brave Bird, it could kick Infernape's ***.
Potentially one-on-one Blaziken could defeat Infernape depending on its moveset and EV spread, but it's no question Infernape performed far better in the OU environment.

the speed difference is enough,

as far as being bulkier the KFC has a def of 70. One EQ attack form the Monkey will finish off the KFC in one move.

the Fire Ape also gets Stone Edge which kills any flying type.
 

RudolphMilotic

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Also, and this is from Smogon, the Baton Pass Speed Boost Blaziken was supposedly labeled "Blaziken's best set". This is BS considering Blaziken's high mixed atttacker potential and just Physical/Special attacker potential.

The mixed potential is somewhat disappointing once you realize that Blaziken lacks the required Speed to sweep without Speed Boost or Choice Scarf support, and has limited options in the mixed department: it doesn't get Grass Knot, Close Combat or U-Turn, while Infernape can learn all of those besides being one of the few Pokémon that gets the five main offensive-stat upping moves (Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Bulk Up and Cheer Up). Superpower isn't as impressive as Close Combat considering it lowers the Attack of the Pokémon, meaning that it can't land uniform damage on the opponent.

This was my point. It's among the least of their concerns, but they do ultimately pay at least a little attention to it.

In fact, I think that Game Freak cares a lot about the competitive side of the games:

-The Flat Battle mode was programmed into HGSS just for the sake of the upcoming Video Game Championships events: pay attention to the rules of past tournaments and you'll see why. In Black and White, it even replaced entirely the auto-level feature that the Generation IV games introduced.
-The EV system was oversimplified in Generation III to broaden the type of strategies and versatility of Pokémon being used in battles; natures also played an important role in this as well.
-The new level-up and egg moves that some Pokémon received in HGSS are intended for 2-on-2 matches (again, a reference to the VGC) such as Lava Plume Groudon, Muddy Water Kyogre, Hyper Voice Rayquaza, Weather Ball, Detect, Switcheroo, Power/Guard Swap, etc.
-Ultimately, the core gameplay is retouched in each subsequent generation, always with a strong emphasis on improving some strategies, nerfing others and introducing new combos; just look at the internal data of new games and you'll see that the most changes are done in the battle system department.
 
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Venator

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All together, the reason why Infernape was OU and Blaziken was UU was because of Speed.

Blaziken gets better coverage potential with Brave Bird, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Flare Blitz as well as access to most of the same Stat boosts as Infernape. It also has higher Attack (by 16 BS points), Sp. Attack (by 6) and HP (by 4). One priority move.

Infernape gets lessened coverage without the Flying-type and has access to most of the favorite stat boosters. It has 1 BS point higher Defense and Sp. Defense compared to Blaziken, much higher Speed (by 28 BS points) than Blaziken and does not hit as hard as a Blaziken can (104/104 compared to 120/110). It also has access to at least three forms on priority moves.

With Calculations (assuming Max IV)
A STAB Close Combat from Adamant 4/252/0/0/0/252 Infernape will fail to OHKO a Adamant 252/252/0/0/0/4 Blaziken (247-292 damage) who then retaliates with a STAB Superpower that KO's 50% of the time (270-318). This is, of course, not including Life Orb boost. Life Orb (322-379) will Life Orb will fail to OHKO on Max HP (364 HP) Adamant Blaziken (with Leftovers, just for the fun of it) 75% of the time, who then retaliates with the same Superpower as before plus 29 damage from Life Orb recoil. With Life Orb on Infernape, it's a guaranteed KO from Blaziken (299-347) on an Infernape with 4 HP EVs (294).
 
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Sanic Hegehog

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Blaziken gets better coverage potential with Brave Bird, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Flare Blitz as well as access to most of the same Stat boosts as Infernape. It also has higher Attack (by 16 BS points), Sp. Attack (by 6) and HP (by 4). One priority move.

The stat part is right but the attack selection is a bit redundant. Brave Bird and Flare Blitz has about the same same type coverage and Earthquake is generally stupid on Fighting types considering Fighting STAB handles the appropriate types (Notably Rock and Steel) plus more.

Blaziken may have Priority moves (Vacuum Wave and lolQuickAttack), but Infernape has 3 priority moves (Fake out, Mach Punch, and Vacuum Wave) which are generally better for the job of sweeping.
 

Super Seaking

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Im sorry, but I thought this thread was titled New Pokemon Discussion, not Old Pokemon Discussion. I dont want to mod like that, but nothing was really happening.

Anyway, anyone else annoyed how overused the monkey trio is? First Gym Leader uses them, and both your rivals use them....gosh. I wouldent mind so much if their evolutions actually had decent designs.
 

RudolphMilotic

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Blaziken gets better coverage potential with Brave Bird, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Flare Blitz as well as access to most of the same Stat boosts as Infernape. It also has higher Attack (by 16 BS points), Sp. Attack (by 6) and HP (by 4). One priority move.

Infernape gets lessened coverage without the Flying-type and only has access to Swords Dance to my knowledge. It has 1 BS point higher Defense and Sp. Defense compared to Blaziken, much higher Speed (by 28 BS points) than Blaziken and does not hit as hard as a Blaziken can (104/104 compared to 120/110). It also has access to at least three forms on priority moves.

Yeah, you can use a set with Brave Bird, Earthquake, Stone Edge and Flare Blitz, losing vital coverage from Blaziken's other STAB (Fighting) and with Brave Bird being a bad option, when the only Pokémon it hits for Super-Effective damage that aren't already covered by the other attacks are those from the Fighting-type, many of which are merely defeated by Flare Blitz or Superpower alone.

As I said, Infernape gets Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Bulk Up and Cheer Up (Blaziken only gets Bulk Up, Swords Dance and Cheer Up), which in tandem with better Speed and better special attacks makes an overall better mixed sweeper.

Venator said:
A STAB Close Combat from Adamant 4/252/0/0/0/252 Infernape will fail to OHKO a Adamant 252/252/0/0/0/4 Blaziken (247-292 damage) who then retaliates with a STAB Superpower that KO's 50% of the time (270-318). This is, of course, not including Life Orb boost. Life Orb (322-379) will Life Orb will fail to OHKO on Max HP (364 HP) Adamant Blaziken (with Leftovers, just for the fun of it) 75% of the time, who then retaliates with the same Superpower as before plus 29 damage from Life Orb recoil. With Life Orb on Infernape, it's a guaranteed KO from Blaziken (299-347) on an Infernape with 4 HP EVs (294).

I don't need to resort to many calculations, because it's a joke that you're comparing which Pokémon would end winning without taking into account that both of them learn Earthquake. For example:

Lv. 100 Adamant Infernape (6 HP/252 Attack/252 Speed) VS Adamant Blaziken (252 HP/252 Attack/6 Speed):
-With Earthquake and Life Orb: 87.5% chance of causing a OHKO on Blaziken (min. damage: 358), 100% with Stealth Rock or one layer of Spikes on the field.

Besides, you're wasting the potential of what Blaziken can do with just 197 in the Speed department and the same mediocre defenses of any other offensive set. So in other words, without resorting to Speed Boost or Choice Scarf, Blaziken can't shine as much as Infernape does.

SuperSeaking said:
Im sorry, but I thought this thread was titled New Pokemon Discussion, not Old Pokemon Discussion. I dont want to mod like that, but nothing was really happening.

We're talking about some things related to the new Generation V Singles metagame that is currently being shaped, so it's related in some way to the new Pokémon. Nevertheless, it's just that we're discussing how old Pokémon would perform in the new battle system. But of course we're getting a little off-topic.

About your criticism of the monkey trio, I actually love them (both their design and competitive potential) and like the fact that Game Freak decided to put them in the spotlight. Besides forming a second starter trio-like group of Pokémon (they have Overgrow, Blaze and Torrent as Dream World abilities), monkeys are always funny and cool.
 
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Venator

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I get it, I get it. Infernape is better suited for OU compared to Blaziken. Don't have to explain it to me. I'm just contributing to the discussion. I fully understand why Speed Boost is a blessing to Blaziken. I just really don't like the idea that a Baton Pass set was Blaziken's "best set".
 

Falconwing

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Yes, if you're going to talk comp stuff of OLD pokemon, it goes elsewhere.
 

nktrainer

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im excited for the new dragon types this generation will bring AAAHHHH why do we have to wait till spring for the english version???
 

JordanN

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Someone finally posted an image of the plushtoys of the final evolutions!

I can't post the picture here because they disabled right click but here's the link.

http://pokemonblackandwhite.net/?p=1616

I actually want to get the deers instead. Lol.
Here's the picture
20101023143713.jpg
 

Morru

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^ aww No Kurumiru plushie? Oh well. I guess I want me that Pokabu instead.
 

Ghost

<FONT FACE=”vivaldi”>Boo.</FONT FACE>
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The Jalorda plush looks nice.

Is Chonoreko shiny?
 

Morru

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I do not think so. A shiny Choroneko is colored navy blue.
 

Yabukuron

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Definitely getting the Jaroda Plushie. Cause I'm also getting a 13 inch Tsutarja one.

I'll probably collect most of those eventually, but I just want Jaroda at the moment. My girlfriend wants the Miju line though so... ||D
 
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