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New Pokémon Discussion

Which flying pokemon in B/W do you prefer?

  • Unfezant

    Votes: 9 4.9%
  • Swoobat

    Votes: 15 8.2%
  • Sigllyph

    Votes: 18 9.9%
  • Archeops

    Votes: 38 20.9%
  • Swanna

    Votes: 14 7.7%
  • Braviary

    Votes: 61 33.5%
  • Mandibuzz

    Votes: 7 3.8%
  • Pfffft, i'll use a legendary.

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 12 6.6%

  • Total voters
    182
  • Poll closed .
Quick Question: Does anyone here know the point of Archeos' Faint Heart ability? Are there any positives about it? Because lowering it's stats below 50% HP is pretty crappy if you ask me.
You mean like every other Pokemon with a major statistical advantage? Though in this case, it is a bit strange since a lot of Gen V Pokemon have massive attack/defense stats in place of speed. This one just gets the advantage of being one of the few Gen V Pokemon that is faster.
 
Something's been on my mind lately. You know how the Gobitto line's based on golems, right? Why did they decide to color them blue? To me, it gives them a robotic appearance, rather than an ancient being theme.
 
"I don't like it so I don't count it"

It's more like "It's just a simulator so I don't count it", though you're right in that I dislike them. And I don't care if Smogon is involved or not, so for me your choices are still random Pokémon, overused in PO, useful (and they indeed are) or not.

I don't see the problem with PRNG-abused Pokémon (and apparently neither Nintendo), thus I still don't understand why you keep comparing it with PokéSAV over and over again.

Sure, Pendra may be used on the Global Link's Battle Videos; but are they specifically VGC11 battles? Are you sure you're not just watching people battling with their in-game teams, using GS Cup rules?

Can you choose the rules in Random Match? As far as I know, it's impossible, and every one of the battle videos I've seen clearly show that they are Random Match battles, Double Ranked mode. I don't know if they are in-game teams or not, but I don't think a Sazandra with Dark Pulse, Shandera with Heat Wave, Roobushin with Mach Punch or a Erufuun with Beat Up are in-game teams, more if the strategy that they used it's a good one and the players involved have very good sense of prediction. And by the way, I never stated that Pendra was that good or pretty overused, but it's an option that almost nobody expects and can prove to be great if used properly nonetheless.

As for better bug-types...Ulgamoth and Shubarugo. Ulgamoth may be 4x weak to Rock, but if you give it protect and accurately predict a Rock Slide, while attacking the user with your partner...besides, once it gets a Butterfly Dance in, it's evil. Shubarugo has amazing Attack, Defence and Special defence, and a fantastic typing; it's only weakness being 4x to Fire. Sure, it has base 20 speed, one of the lowest this generation, but under Trick Room, it becomes a monster

But ultimately, bug-types won't do much good this format. Fighting and Ghost-types are everywhere, and the main Dark-types that are used, can learn Fire-type attacks anyway.

You don't understand the word "outclass", do you? Neither Ulgamoth nor Shubarugo are Bug/Poison Pokémon or share a lot of things with Pendra, so they can't outclass it. They could be better than Pendra, but the utility of each one is different as well.
 
Quick Question: Does anyone here know the point of Archeos' Faint Heart ability? Are there any positives about it? Because lowering it's stats below 50% HP is pretty crappy if you ask me.

Aakeos is a Glass cannon. It has to hit hard while it's still on the field. Timid (new ability name, according to the 'Pedia) is a liability. To make up for being stronger and faster than Aerodactyl, it cuts stats.

Competitively, this is bad. In the main game, however, you can restore HP with potions.
 
Something's been on my mind lately. You know how the Gobitto line's based on golems, right? Why did they decide to color them blue? To me, it gives them a robotic appearance, rather than an ancient being theme.
That's essentially what a golem is. Besides, I'd say its the eyes that made it more robotic if anything. The blue colour is also a bit grayish, I'd say its to make its ghost typing more obvious.
 
Its ability to fly makes me think they're partially based on mechas too. Maybe they're a bit of both?
 
Aakeos is a Glass cannon. It has to hit hard while it's still on the field. Timid (new ability name, according to the 'Pedia) is a liability. To make up for being stronger and faster than Aerodactyl, it cuts stats.

Since when 110 Base Speed is higher than 130 Base Speed? Besides, Archeos is still better than a lot of glass cannon Pokémon, and the ability itself only cuts in half the Attack and Sp. Attack, much better than other hindering abilities. If a Move Tutor that teaches Roost is introduced in future G-V games, it will see more play, though with 140 Base Attack, it is already used.

They are ghosts you know.

Gengar, Mismagius and Duskull can't learn Fly as far as I know, so in this case the argument of them being "Ghost-type" doesn't explain completely it.

Another Pokémon that I like so much is Furijio, though it's a shame that is overshadowed by Forretress and co. as a Rapid Spinner: it's weak to Stealth Rock and has very bad Defense. On the other side, it shines in the Special department, has STAB Ice Beam, access to Recover, Reflect, Light Screen and it's immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes.
 
They are ghosts you know.

Hmm... maybe it's just strange that way. I mean, there's Pokemon that don't really have to relate to their real world counterparts *CoughDaikenkiCough*
 
It's more like "It's just a simulator so I don't count it", though you're right in that I dislike them. And I don't care if Smogon is involved or not, so for me your choices are still random Pokémon, overused in PO, useful (and they indeed are) or not.
Sure, it's a simulator, but once people have tested a bit, they then go and make those Pokémon for real. It's just a way of saving time RNGing/Breeding Pokémon, only to find that they are useless.

I don't see the problem with PRNG-abused Pokémon (and apparently neither Nintendo), thus I still don't understand why you keep comparing it with PokéSAV over and over again.
This time I didn't say they were similar; just that both are used. Also, if Nintendo had no problem; why did GameFreak make the PRNG harder to crack in Gen 5?

Can you choose the rules in Random Match? As far as I know, it's impossible, and every one of the battle videos I've seen clearly show that they are Random Match battles, Double Ranked mode. I don't know if they are in-game teams or not, but I don't think a Sazandra with Dark Pulse, Shandera with Heat Wave, Roobushin with Mach Punch or a Erufuun with Beat Up are in-game teams, more if the strategy that they used it's a good one and the players involved have very good sense of prediction. And by the way, I never stated that Pendra was that good or pretty overused, but it's an option that almost nobody expects and can prove to be great if used properly nonetheless.
So in short...those videos are pretty useless for competetive research, as you can't tell if they're in-game or not?

You don't understand the word "outclass", do you? Neither Ulgamoth nor Shubarugo are Bug/Poison Pokémon or share a lot of things with Pendra, so they can't outclass it. They could be better than Pendra, but the utility of each one is different as well.
Poison isn't a useful type competitively; especially in the VGC scene. Bug however, is, due to the Psychic-types and Dark-types about. Ulgamoth and Shubarugo outclass Pendra in the Bug department. I never said anything about poison.
 
I think Venomoth is the best Bug/Poison. It has a handy new Butterfly Dance, its old tricks, yada yada yada.

Eh. While Pendoraa has the coverage to be a lead (Ground/Rock/Bug), he can be easily covered. I think Shubug and Kiri will find easier spots in competition, mostly due to their types. Granted, Kiri's can be a bit limiting, and Shubug lacks coverage. (That's really all Shubug needs, though.)

It took me a long time to compose this post, mostly because I had to look Pendoraa over and over again. Shubug has moved down in my book slightly, and Kirikizan and Pendoraa have moved up.

Kirikizan doesn't have limited options, it has NO options. There is only one legit set that it can run and be of any use. And to top that off, it has a 4x fighting weakness. Its move pool is shallower than tauros', which is a shame considering its great design and above average stats. Speed is its biggest killer though. I could see either a Rock Polish or Thunderwave set to get the ball moving, but the guy can easily be countered... Payback/Stone Edge is all this guy has going for it. Maybe fit in Metal Burst over Payback.

Pendra however(thanks to its speed) can run a Swords Dance + STAB Megahorn/Earthquake/Agility/Baton Pass/Toxic Spikes/Double Edge/Poison Jab. It's just so much more 'flexible' and can run multiple sets. Kirikizan will be UU at best and Pendra will be Borderline to OU.

And in comparing Pendra to Ulgamoth/Shubarugo... You really can't. They each have different purposes and each can do something better than the other. Pendra is a fast lead/sweeper. Shubarugo is a strong and sturdy steel/bug(man it's a shame this thing didn't get gyro ball... But that would make it a complete beast). And Ulgamoth can be a Juggernaut(despite its SR weakness).

On an off note*** Charizard better be able to get Windstorm via breeding with dragonite when the third version rolls along
 
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This time I didn't say they were similar; just that both are used. Also, if Nintendo had no problem; why did GameFreak make the PRNG harder to crack in Gen 5?

Of course they have to be harder, as many things related to the PV changed in Generation V and the Pokémon data structure as well. Game Freak isn't thinking of enhancing the correlations used just because of people making research about their work but because that's what you do when you have a better game engine. For example, the PRNG of Colosseum and XD hasn't been deciphered yet despite the time they have been available. Why? It's obvious that a more powerful system and a more complicated game engine use a better way to randomize things and encryption. If Nintendo would have had problems with that, they would have disqualified people who made use of the PRNG in the last World Championship, not only "force" to Game Freak to make a more competent PRNG (which they would end doing anyway).

So in short...those videos are pretty useless for competetive research, as you can't tell if they're in-game or not?

Read again what I posted, and it's up to you. I prefer testing things with the real battle system (and not just viewing battle videos, by the way) and training Pokémon (that aren't that hard or time-consuming to get) than relying on simulators.

Poison isn't a useful type competitively; especially in the VGC scene. Bug however, is, due to the Psychic-types and Dark-types about. Ulgamoth and Shubarugo outclass Pendra in the Bug department. I never said anything about poison.

I was talking about the Bug/Poison combination, which neither Ulgamoth or Shubarugo share, so they can't outclass Pendra as they don't have the same (or similar) Base Stats, movepool, functions or purpose in the game. You still don't understand what "outclass" really means. For example, non-Speed Boost Blaziken and/or Enbuoh are both outclassed by Infernape (or that's at least what many people think) as they are all Fire/Fighting final-stage starter Pokémon which share similar movepools and other things.
 
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I was talking about the Bug/Poison combination, which neither Ulgamoth or Shubarugo share, so they can't outclass Pendra as they don't have the same (or similar) Base Stats, movepool, functions or purpose in the game. You still don't understand what "outclass" really means. For example, non-Speed Boost Blaziken and/or Enbuoh are both outclassed by Infernape (or that's at least what many people think) as they are all Fire/Fighting final-stage starter Pokémon which share similar movepools and other things.

How about we make another comparison to help your point across. Saying that Buffalon outclasses Blissey, both being normal types, is pointless because they do two different things. Likewise, Pendra does different things than the other bug types so its not really outclassed. Perhaps other bug types have more uses, but their uses don't encroach on Pendra's.
 
After looking through all of their move sets.

Aianto: Baton Pass, Rock Polish, Hone Claws, Stone Edge, Crunch, Iron Head, X-Scissor, Shadow Claw.

Shubarugo: Swords Dance, Megahorn, X-Scissor, Twineedle, Iron Head, Toxic, Poison Jab, Counter.

Pendra: Swords Dance, Megahorn, Earthquake, Agility, Baton Pass, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Double Edge, Poison Jab, Toxic

Ulgamoth: Butterfly Dance, Heat Wave, Fire Dance, Flamethrower, Psychic, Bug Buzz, WINDSTORM!, Morning Sun, Light Screen, Whirlwind

Now... Scizor outclasses Shubarugo in all aspects EXCEPT for the fact that Shubarugo gets Megahorn. Other than that, Shubarugo doesn't have much in terms of 'flexibility' considering it doesnt have too many options offensively(NO GYRO BALL!)... It was blessed with stats, but not enough moves... not even very many 'supporter' moves...

Pendra is very flexible in that it can lead/toxic spikes/spikes, it can set up a swords dance and begin sweeping, or just baton pass it away to an even stronger sweeper.

I find Aianto to be a very interesting pokemon. It may not have as much in the HP/Special Defense department... But with 109 speed and attack... It can baton pass Agility/Rock Polish/Hone Claws, or it can be a revenge killer(Outspeeds Zoroark, Sazandora, Waruvial and lands a super effective STAB X-Scissor... How about a super effective Crunch on slower Ghosts or Psychic types? It does outspeed SOME variants of Gengar despite being trolled 1 base point in the speed department)... And despite having lower HP/SpD it does have the incredible Bug/Steel typing. NOW, imagine running Hustle + Honeclaws on this guy? It cancels out the accuracy loss and increases attack even more... That's the same as a swords dance.

Ulgamoth just speaks for itself. With a 600 base stat total, good speed and 135 base SpA... it functions COMPLETELY different from every other bug type.... and is a great counter against Aianto, Shubarugo, Scizor, Foretress...

They are all bugs, but for the most part they all play different roles and have separate niches in the metagame.
 
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After looking through all of their move sets.

...
Its worth noting that people have basically been calling Genesect an inferior Scizor as well.

Honestly, the only redeeming quality I can find for it is Download, which may or may not raise its stats based on what Pokemon its facing. Personally, I still think Scizor's Technician + Bullet Punch is much more reliable. Though it does get 120 SAtk, but in terms of being offensive, it still doesn't impress me as much as other bug Pokemon.

Not really a competitive thing, but the real turn off for me is its Technobuster move. In no incarnation does it ever get STAB, and three of its four typings is basically outclassed by the Elemental beams in every way possible (perfect accuracy is a tie, but they have more power, more PP and a secondary effect), all of which Genesect learns. Oh wow, water type Techno Buster, now it can douse the many non-fire Pokemon who know fire moves.

It's supposed to be a super-enhanced prehistoric hunter. The only thing I can see that it did for it was give it a shiny metal coat, the ability to fly and a self destruct sequence.

In terms of impressiveness, nearly all the other Pokemon, bug or otherwise have wowed me more. Ulgamoth, definitely and that thing isn't even made out to be a legendary.

Ulgamoth just speaks for itself. With a 600 base stat total, good speed and 135 base SpA... it functions COMPLETELY different from every other bug type.... and is a great counter against Aianto, Shubarugo, Scizor, Foretress...

What's more impressive is its actually 550 base stat total. Then there's Butterfly Dance, which raises SATk, SDef and Spd. That thing is basically made for a Sunny Day team too with its STAB fire move and Wind Storm.

Sure, SR weak, but in-game battles, this thing is going to be a beast in the Battle Subway.

EDIT: nvm, turns out Wind Storm was mistranslated when I last saw it. Makes less sense considering how wind is made.

EDIT 2: conflicting data coming from Bulbapedia and this source https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...taU1hNXJUMTJncFE&authkey=CITunaYG&hl=en#gid=0

Smogon's data also listed the effect as being different, though with just a number [E151]
 
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what's y'all's opinion on gamageroge?
Competitively, I don't really have one, but in terms of design, I think its pretty cool.

Sure, it basically seems like a cross between the Exploud and Swampert lines, but what isn't an expy in some shape or form in Gen V?

While Canon can be learned by any Pokemon that learns TM's, I find it a very fitting move for Gamageroge to learn through level up. I can see them in the wild building on each other's power using that move.

It's also cool that priority goes to the fastest canon user, though the frog itself isn't that fast.
 
In terms of impressiveness, nearly all the other Pokemon, bug or otherwise have wowed me more. Ulgamoth, definitely and that thing isn't even made out to be a legendary.

What's more impressive is its actually 550 base stat total. Then there's Butterfly Dance, which raises SATk, SDef and Spd. That thing is basically made for a Sunny Day team too with its STAB fire move and Wind Storm.

Sure, SR weak, but in-game battles, this thing is going to be a beast in the Battle Subway.

Dang, I thought it had base 600 stats but got mixed up, that guy is really a monster. I was thinking the same thing, perfect for a sunny day team.

what's y'all's opinion on gamageroge?

One of my favorie designs, great typing. Sadly its stats are lacking...
 
Of course they have to be harder, as many things related to the PV changed in Generation V and the Pokémon data structure as well. Game Freak isn't thinking of enhancing the correlations used just because of people making research about their work but because that's what you do when you have a better game engine. For example, the PRNG of Colosseum and XD hasn't been deciphered yet despite the time they have been available. Why? It's obvious that a more powerful system and a more complicated game engine use a better way to randomize things and encryption. If Nintendo would have had problems with that, they would have disqualified people who made use of the PRNG in the last World Championship, not only "force" to Game Freak to make a more competent PRNG (which they would end doing anyway).
The thing is, they wouldn't be able to disqualify people for PRNG, because they'll have no way to prove it. Unlike Sav, where you can mess up and unless you SAV on one game and trade to another, it is detectable.
Also...how did they change the data structure? Seems odd that they would. With your Colo/XD example...maybe 3DS Pokémon titles can make PRNG harder, or even, practically impossible. I'm sure you'll agree that without PokéSav or RNG, the game would be more balanced.

Sure, PRNG could have been made harder for a different reason, but it's a bit rash to say that it wasn't at least brought up in discussion (just as it would be rash to say it was the only reason); it's not like The Pokémon Company are oblivious to the fandom.


Read again what I posted, and it's up to you. I prefer testing things with the real battle system (and not just viewing battle videos, by the way) and training Pokémon (that aren't that hard or time-consuming to get) than relying on simulators.
Obviously, first hand experience is where people will learn, and watching in-game battles sure beats staring at a screen on a computer (Especially since in Gen V, Pokémon move all the time...when they don't, it feels unnatural).

I was talking about the Bug/Poison combination, which neither Ulgamoth or Shubarugo share, so they can't outclass Pendra as they don't have the same (or similar) Base Stats, movepool, functions or purpose in the game. You still don't understand what "outclass" really means. For example, non-Speed Boost Blaziken and/or Enbuoh are both outclassed by Infernape (or that's at least what many people think) as they are all Fire/Fighting final-stage starter Pokémon which share similar movepools and other things.

out·class
   /ˌaʊtˈklæs, -ˈklɑs/ Show Spelled[out-klas, -klahs]
–verb (used with object)
to surpass in excellence or quality, esp. by a wide margin; be superior: He far outclasses the other runners in the race.

I wasn't basing it on typing; I was thinking of the role it plays in a team. Looking at Pendra's stats and movepool, it's obviously a physical sweeper - 112 Base Speed is pretty high for Gen V, while the 90 in Attack is average. Moveset wise, it can learn some high-powered attacks like Megahorn and Double-Edge. Shubarugo can learn both Megahorn and Double-Edge, but has a far superior Attack stat (135). While Pendera has the speed (compared to Shubarugo's 20), which may be better for Tailwind teams; one needs to remember that Trick Room is incredibly popular this generation. A Tailwind team will fall at the hands of a Trick Room team, whereas another TR can battle on equal level. Pendra's typing gives it four weaknesses (2x Fire, 2x Flying, 2x Psychic and 2x Rock); Psychic being a common type, with Pokémon such as Ranculus or Musharna. Sure, Pendra can outspeed them, but in Trick Room, they're some of the fasted Pokémon around. Rock-type attacks have always been popular; and Gigaith being a powerful Trick Room sweeper means that there's a chance they'll be packing stab; and with the genies around, they're use will only increase. Pendra should be safe from fire though, as the only fire-types that are used are Ulgamoth and Chandera. However, Pendra's defences are only 60(HP), 89(Defence) and 69 (Sp.Def), compared to Shubarugo's 70(HP), 105(Defence) and 105(Sp.Def); and Shubarugo has only one weakness (4x Fire), 9 resistances and 1 immunity (compared to Pendra's 4 resistances).

One thing I will give Pendra though, is it's access to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. The only downside is, these moves aren't that useful in Double battles, due to the lower rate of switching. As others have said, it can Baton Pass a Swords Dance, Agility or Iron Defence; but you won't find much use for Baton Pass in doubles. It may have it's space in singles; but in VGC11, I wouldn't say Pendra is that viable.
 
Also...how did they change the data structure? Seems odd that they would. With your Colo/XD example...maybe 3DS Pokémon titles can make PRNG harder, or even, practically impossible. I'm sure you'll agree that without PokéSav or RNG, the game would be more balanced.

They changed values such as the nature, which is no longer tied to either the Personality Value or the IVs the Pokémon has, and it's just another hex address. Also, all the previous hex addressess used to denote things such as the ball in HGSS or the location in PtHGSS have been all set to zeroes. Without PokéSAV I would agree, but not with PRNG-abuse as I do that since Emerald (not just for shiny Pokémon) and I don't see any problems with it. Learn to do it (anyone can) and stop complaining. And if you don't do it because of ethical reasons, again, it's up to you.

A better game engine can't be brought into discussion because that's what game companies do all the time, regardless of whether they look at what the fandom is doing or not. And just maybe Game Freak made the first three Generation IV games with the thought of being very easy to PRNG-abuse for once all the correlations were discovered (this can be easily deduced if you look at what some Japanese people discovered when Emerald was in its peak and shortly before Diamond and Pearl release), then tried to shake things up with HGSS and finally tease with us in Black and White, knowing that we would find a way to overcome their barriers. They could have programmed the game with a much better encryption now that a lot of things are unused or zeroed, but apparently they are comfortable with what the fandom is doing.

I wasn't basing it on typing; I was thinking of the role it plays in a team.

Again, unneeded wall of text. In Pokémon battle terminology (and just in this argot), "outclass" is very specific and can only apply to Pokémon that share some things in common between them. Yet again, Pendra can be a worse battle choice in general therms than a lot of other (Bug-type) Pokémon, but can't be outclassed by them as they cover different roles. Got it?

I will quote a statement made earlier by Outrage that complements pretty well what I'm trying to say:

How about we make another comparison to help your point across. Saying that Buffalon outclasses Blissey, both being normal types, is pointless because they do two different things. Likewise, Pendra does different things than the other bug types so its not really outclassed. Perhaps other bug types have more uses, but their uses don't encroach on Pendra's.
 
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