New Pokémon Discussion

[/Zer0]

I can't think of any worthless Bug-Types except for Ariados since Generation V introduced Butterfly Dance to almost all the butterfly-like Pokemon (not including Doreida). The move boosts SP.ATK, SP.DEF, and SPD which is a little overpowered in my mind, but hopefully it'll give some of the seldom used Bug-Types a chance.

EDIT: Actually, I found a bit more: Illumise, Kricketune, Parasect, Ledian, and Wormadam (not counting the NFEs). Parasect especially because of it's bad typing, have to check out it's Generation V movepool..

Turns out Parasect didn't get much; only Fury Cutter and Anger Powder (which makes the opponent target Parasect in a double/triple-battle, like a priority Lightningrod). Fury Cutter might have some uses because of Parasects ATK, but Anger Powder is a 50/50 because of Parasects many weaknesses and resistances. As for the new TMs, there aren't many new STAB Physical Attacks for Parasect.

EDIT2: Tail Glow just got boosted to a +3 SP.ATK boost (that's crazy). Volbeat owns now.

 

[Zeta]

It's nice to see the Bug-type got overall buffs this gen. If only Grass and Ice-types were so lucky.

 

[The Outrage]

Unfortunately for those bugs that Urgamoth exists and will be overshadowing them, and I don't see the likes of Beautifly becoming OU.

Of course, a lot of the new bugs are cool.

 

[Eliot Kovach]

I would just love for older Pokemon to get stat boosts. They said something about changing stats of older Pokemon. I mean, Hahakurimo has overall stats of 490, while Beautifly has 380. As well as Corsola and Sableye who are ridiculously weak, even Maggyo and Basurao are stronger then them, and they look weak.

But yeah, I love that bugs get attention in this generation, it was about time, since Bugs were highly unappreciated. And yeah, if only Grass types could get that boosts, or Poison.

However, I find very weird that only one cocoon has that huge move-set, while the other one doesn't. It's just... off.

 

[Seress]

and Scyther was spelled Sutoraiku

It was the pronounciation not the romanization

I don't know about that. I think it would make much more sense if its name was spelled Zoroa. I mean look at it's evolution, Zoroark, it's not spelled, Zoruark. Is it?

 

[Super Seaking]

I would just love for older Pokemon to get stat boosts. They said something about changing stats of older Pokemon. I mean, Hahakurimo has overall stats of 490, while Beautifly has 380. As well as Corsola and Sableye who are ridiculously weak, even Maggyo and Basurao are stronger then them, and they look weak.

There are other ways to make Pokemon stronger without stat boosts, you know. Pokemon with bad stats can be greatly improved with new moves and abilities. Sableye got Mischievous Heart and some nice new moves, which make it a little bit better. Corsola still isnt as good as Sableye but was also improved with Regeneration and some new moves.

Likely the best example of Pokemon with bad stats being greatly improved with new moves and abilities is Azumarill. In the 2nd Gen, Azu had good Defenses but terrible Attack and Speed, and only an average movepool. But 3rd Gen gave it Huge Power, which actually made Azumarill pretty good.

 

[Eitarou]

I don't know about that. I think it would make much more sense if its name was spelled Zoroa. I mean look at it's evolution, Zoroark, it's not spelled, Zoruark. Is it?

hey I'm not the one who makes these names

 

[The Outrage]

I don't know about that. I think it would make much more sense if its name was spelled Zoroa. I mean look at it's evolution, Zoroark, it's not spelled, Zoruark. Is it?

Doesn't matter if it would make more sense because they decided to make its official Romanization Zorua

 

[Zeta]

Likely the best example of Pokemon with bad stats being greatly improved with new moves and abilities is Azumarill. In the 2nd Gen, Azu had good Defenses but terrible Attack and Speed, and only an average movepool. But 3rd Gen gave it Huge Power, which actually made Azumarill pretty good.

Huge Power isn't the best example since it's basically a retcon of its stats.

 

[Articwolf10]

There are other ways to make Pokemon stronger without stat boosts, you know. Pokemon with bad stats can be greatly improved with new moves and abilities. Sableye got Mischievous Heart and some nice new moves, which make it a little bit better. Corsola still isnt as good as Sableye but was also improved with Regeneration and some new moves.

Likely the best example of Pokemon with bad stats being greatly improved with new moves and abilities is Azumarill. In the 2nd Gen, Azu had good Defenses but terrible Attack and Speed, and only an average movepool. But 3rd Gen gave it Huge Power, which actually made Azumarill pretty good.

Yeah Jaroda for example hi sattack is pretty low However he gets access to Coil a move that raises Attack/Defense and Accracy And Calm mind which raises SATK and SDEF

With either of those moves he can be lethal with ovegrow Being able to be a Physical Sweeper/Wall with Coil and a Special Sweeper/Wall with Calm Mind. There are plenty of ways to fix pokemon with low stats

 

[Ivysaur]

Huge Power isn't the best example since it's basically a retcon of its stats.

Besides, old Pokemon shouldn't have to rely on abilities to improve in the first place.

Part of the reason why I wished Generation 5 would have cut off compatibility with past games is because too many old Pokemon simply can't compete with the new ones. Stat retcons need to happen.

 

[Zeta]

Besides, old Pokemon shouldn't have to rely on abilities to improve in the first place.

Part of the reason why I wished Generation 5 would have cut off compatibility with past games is because too many old Pokemon simply can't compete with the new ones. Stat retcons need to happen.

It's definitely time for a battle system reboot to fix terribad balance issues with poor stats and some types being too weak (Ice, Grass, Poison) and others being too strong (Water, Steel).

 

[Super Seaking]

Umm, if they wanted the old ones to be just as good as the new ones, then they wouldent have made these new ones so powerful in the first place. "Lets make a fire monkey with 140 attack, then give it an ability to boost it further!...but wait, that would overshadow old Pokemon too much.....hmm, instead of just lowering this things stats to balance it out, I think Ill pointlessly raise old Pokemons stats. That makes sense!"

Unless of course you mean raising the stats of weak Pokemon like Delibird and Chatot. That still wouldent make any sense, they cant just raise the stats of weak Pokemon and leave the stronger ones alone.

I dont think that stats boosts or a new battle system need to happen. Once again, new moves and abilities can balance out types more. For example, Psycho Shock, introduced in Gen 5, makes Psychic a better offensive option by allowing Special attackers to target the enemies Special and Physical Defense. And Stealth Rock.....actually, that made things even more unbalanced, but you see what I mean.
Abilities like Water Absorb and Motor Drive make certain offensive types more risky to use. Imagine having a Shadow Tag Shandera switch in on your Choice Scarf Heracross using Close Combat.....jeez.

Besides, old Pokemon shouldn't have to rely on abilities to improve in the first place.

How would giving old Pokemon pointless stat boosts be any better?

 

[Gar]

Yeah Jaroda for example hi sattack is pretty low However he gets access to Coil a move that raises Attack/Defense and Accracy And Calm mind which raises SATK and SDEF

With either of those moves he can be lethal with ovegrow Being able to be a Physical Sweeper/Wall with Coil and a Special Sweeper/Wall with Calm Mind. There are plenty of ways to fix pokemon with low stats

Actually, a better example would have been Jaroda + Perversity + Leaf Storm. Jaroda has good Speed and above average defenses. His Sp. Attack is low, but with Leaf Storm giving +2 boosts to Sp. Attack each time it is used, that's pretty damn powerful.

 

[Articwolf10]

Actually, a better example would have been Jaroda + Perversity + Leaf Storm. Jaroda has good Speed and above average defenses. His Sp. Attack is low, but with Leaf Storm giving +2 boosts to Sp. Attack each time it is used, that's pretty damn powerful.

Yeah he can be powerful either way with Overgrow He can use either Coil or Calm Mind to raise his ATK/DEF or SATK/SDEF making him either a physical Sweeper/Wall or Special Sweeper/Wall thats four roles so he's pretty versitile.

And will be a pain in the ass imagine Him using leech-seed which traps the opponent and drains them slowoly as he uses Coil/Calm Mind. And if you get him low health poof Rest+lum Berry with Maxed out Def/SDEF you'll be lucky to get him low again before he smashed you with Leaf-Blade or Energy-Ball

And Perversity Jaroda is a monster I'm mean LEaf-Storm is bad enough with the S-ATK decrease but you go and reverse it yikes.

He's a tricky bastard (Fiting as he's a snake) He can be a staller with his Defense A Sweeper/Wall with Coil/Calm-Mind. You just need the right move-set to use him proberly.Plus he looks bad-ass. definitly using him when I get Black. And If I get white as well I'll get Mijimaru (He's adorable plus Daikenki is made of win)

Poor Pokabu though he was one of the most liked starters but he ha to be Fire/fighting (Maybe we should write a petitiion for no more Fire/Fighting Starters?

 

[Ampharos King]

Actually, a better example would have been Jaroda + Perversity + Leaf Storm. Jaroda has good Speed and above average defenses. His Sp. Attack is low, but with Leaf Storm giving +2 boosts to Sp. Attack each time it is used, that's pretty damn powerful.

Let's not forget that additional items such as Life Orbs or Choice Specs can also increase Leaf Storm's power. Even with STAB and high base power, Leaf Storm does reduced damage for many types.

For a Jaroda, its Perversity ability is only good for attacks that would normally cause a stat decrease after use. Therefore stat-boosting moves like Swords Dance, Calm Mind, and Coil that it has access to shouldn't be used (stat increases are now stat decreases).

The strategy here seems to be Leaf Storm + Perversity, so Choice Spec's limit doesn't apply. You just have to make sure to increase Leaf Storm's PP by some way.

 

[Ivysaur]

Umm, if they wanted the old ones to be just as good as the new ones, then they wouldent have made these new ones so powerful in the first place.

The new ones had to be made more powerful to differentiate themselves from past Pokemon. What appeal would the new Pokemon bring if they weren't any better than the old ones?

At some point, if not already, it's going to become absurd, and most new Pokemon won't be able to compete. Stat retcons would give many more Pokemon improvements, and without making them rely on abilities to compete, since numerous new Pokemon don't have to.

I dont think that stats boosts or a new battle system need to happen. Once again, new moves and abilities can balance out types more. For example, Psycho Shock, introduced in Gen 5, makes Psychic a better offensive option by allowing Special attackers to target the enemies Special and Physical Defense. And Stealth Rock.....actually, that made things even more unbalanced, but you see what I mean.
Abilities like Water Absorb and Motor Drive make certain offensive types more risky to use. Imagine having a Shadow Tag Shandera switch in on your Choice Scarf Heracross using Close Combat.....jeez.

You must realize how little sense you make, right?

How would giving old Pokemon pointless stat boosts be any better?

And how do you figure them pointless? Do you have no idea how tiny stat boosts would significantly improve many Pokemon? Blaziken, with a marginal improvement to its Speed, would actually be able to compete with Infernape. And hey, it would still be able to use Blaze without relying on Speed Boost. After all, Infernape doesn't need to rely on Speed Boost, does it?

 

[Super Seaking]

You must realize how little sense you make, right?

No, I dont see how that made little sense. Is this any better?

-Psychic is often considered a weak offensive type. Psycho Shock, a Gen 5 move that uses a Pokemons Sp. Attack against the opponents Physical Defense is a good way for Special Attackers to hit Pokemon like Blissey, Hypno, and Tentacruel, who have a high Sp. Defense but a low/average Physical Defense.
Summary: Many Special attackers will now carry Psycho Shock, which means Psychic will be a more commonly used offensive type.

-Fighting is often considered a very powerful offensive type. However, the Gen 5 Pokemon Sandera has the Ability Shadow Tag, which prevents foes from switching out. This makes Fighting a more risky type on Pokemon who use Choice items, due to Shandera being immune to Fighting attacks. Basically, if Shandera comes in on a Choice Pokemon using Fighting attacks, it will set up and sweep your entire team.
Summary: Shadow Tag Shandera makes Fighting a more risky move to use on Choice Pokemon, weakening its offensive power.

-Steel is often considered an overpowered Defensive type. A good way to weaken the Steel-types defensive capabilities would be to introduce a powerful new attack that Steel is weak too, like Fire, and give it to a large variety of strong Pokemon.
Summary: Powerful new Fire, Fighting, or Ground attacks given to a large amount of Pokemon would likely weaken the Steel-types Defensive capabilities.

And how do you figure stat boosts pointless? Do you have no idea how tiny stat boosts would significantly improve many Pokemon? Blaziken, with a marginal improvement to its Speed, would actually be able to compete with Infernape. And hey, it would still be able to use Blaze without relying on Speed Boost. After all, Infernape doesn't need to rely on Speed Boost, does it?

"Pointless" wasnt the best word choice. Stat boosts would make a difference, I just dont think its right. Going and giving stat boosts to weaker Pokemon seems like....a lazy way to make them stronger. I dont really like it when a lot of Pokemon rely completely on abilities, but is there really any other way to make them better? Theres really not any other options besides expanding their movepools...unless of course a brand new gameplay element is introduced.

 

[Ivysaur]

No, I dont see how that made little sense. Is this any better?

-Psychic is often considered a weak offensive type. Psycho Shock, a Gen 5 move that uses a Pokemons Sp. Attack against the opponents Physical Defense is a good way for Special Attackers to hit Pokemon like Blissey, Hypno, and Tentacruel, who have a high Sp. Defense but a low/average Physical Defense.
Summary: Many Special attackers will now carry Psycho Shock, which means Psychic will be a more commonly used offensive type.

-Fighting is often considered a very powerful offensive type. However, the Gen 5 Pokemon Sandera has the Ability Shadow Tag, which prevents foes from switching out. This makes Fighting a more risky type on Pokemon who use Choice items, due to Shandera being immune to Fighting attacks. Basically, if Shandera comes in on a Choice Pokemon using Fighting attacks, it will set up and sweep your entire team.
Summary: Shadow Tag Shandera makes Fighting a more risky move to use on Choice Pokemon, weakening its offensive power.

-Steel is often considered an overpowered Defensive type. A good way to weaken the Steel-types defensive capabilities would be to introduce a powerful new attack that Steel is weak too, like Fire, and give it to a large variety of strong Pokemon.
Summary: Powerful new Fire, Fighting, or Ground attacks given to a large amount of Pokemon would likely weaken the Steel-types Defensive capabilities.

But these are all examples of types, not specific Pokemon (excluding Shandeera... But that's a new Pokemon). Not that the type chart doesn't need a tweaking or two (Grass, Ice, and Poison Pokemon need some boosts), but old Pokemon being not competitively viable has little to do with typing.

"Pointless" wasnt the best word choice. Stat boosts would make a difference, I just dont think its right. Just going and giving stat boosts to weaker Pokemon seems like....a lazy way to make them stronger. I dont really like it when a lot of Pokemon rely completely on abilities, but is there really any other way to make them better? Theres really not any other options besides expanding their movepools...

GameFreak has already tried to improve old Pokemon through more "original" means such as abilities and attacks. But now it's time for a retcon, in my opinion, because GameFreak simply can't end up improving Pokemon only through those means, especially when they're stats are just incredibly lacking.

 

[Super Seaking]

But these are all examples of types, not specific Pokemon (excluding Shandeera... But that's a new Pokemon). Not that the type chart doesn't need a tweaking or two (Grass, Ice, and Poison Pokemon need some boosts), but old Pokemon being not competitively viable has little to do with typing.

The whole type thing was a response to this:

It's definitely time for a battle system reboot to fix terribad balance issues with poor stats and some types being too weak (Ice, Grass, Poison) and others being too strong (Water, Steel).

GameFreak has already tried to improve old Pokemon through more "original" means such as abilities and attacks. But now it's time for a retcon, in my opinion, because GameFreak simply can't end up improving Pokemon only through those means, especially when they're stats are just incredibly lacking.

Well, that dosnt mean that stat boosts are the only answer.