Review New series: Initial thoughts

[Grass Type Gardenia]

Here's how the show will likely go for Ash. It will mainly focus on Ash challenging every past Champion he met before confronting the big daddy of them all, Leon. That's when Ash would finally become the Pokemon Master. He would then pass the torch to Gou by giving him Pikachu to accompany him on his journey through the Gen 9 Region.

 

[Daren]

Here's how the show will likely go for Ash. It will mainly focus on Ash challenging every past Champion he met before confronting the big daddy of them all, Leon. That's when Ash would finally become the Pokemon Master. He would then pass the torch to Gou by giving him Pikachu to accompany him on his journey through the Gen 9 Region.

I have serious trouble imagining Ash giving Pikachu away.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

I have serious trouble imagining Ash giving Pikachu away.

So do I, this would probably be one of those things that take everyone by surprise, just like how Ash became the Champion of Alola.

 

[Hidden Mew]

So do I, this would probably be one of those things that take everyone by surprise, just like how Ash became the Champion of Alola.

Ash winning the Alola League was at least plausible, especially when the Alola League itself was pretty much set on easy mode with it being free for anyone to enter it. There is no chance that Ash would ever give away Pikachu, let alone to Gou.

 

[Daren]

Ash winning the Alola League was at least plausible, especially when the Alola League itself was pretty much set on easy mode with it being free for anyone to enter it. There is no chance that Ash would ever give away Pikachu, let alone to Gou.

Right. Ash winning Alola was mostly surprising because the show has spent twenty years refusing to let him win one, not because it makes no sense for the character.
Ash giving Pikachu away would require significant buildup to make sense.

 

[Jez]

View: https://twitter.com/rockettriolove/status/1220237796826386432?s=21

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

Somehow I see XY being the last original theme Pokemon anime series in all, and Sun and Moon being the transition between the old series and the new series. It's quite clear they never want to go back to the old formula ever again because of how poorly the reception XY anime received, even though to some it was the best (and even though DP had the notorious problem of recycling plots and should've been the end of the series). Plus the Hoopa film did flop in the Japanese box office. XY came out around the same time the Yokai Watch fad exploded throughout the length of Gen 6 in Japan, stealing Pokemon's thunder.

These likely scenarios could be the reason for the radical changes, with the films having it set in an Alternative Universe, Sun and Moon being the transition being a slice of life in Alola before ending Ash's Pokemon League plots by having him become the Champion of Alola. No more badge collecting for Ash, and no more touring big regions like Galar with sidetracks along the way. They now want a series where they can finally fulfil Ash's dream of becoming Pokemon Master by defeating all the past Champions: Lance, Steven, Cynthia, Alder and Diantha before confronting the strongest of them all, Leon. After that, the series will finally drop Ash and have the torch be past on to Gou for Gen 9. Ash will continue to live on in the films, while the anime will be about Gou.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Somehow I see XY being the last original style Pokemon anime series in all, and Sun and Moon being the transition between the old series and the new series. It's quite clear they never want to go back to the old formula ever again because of how poorly XY anime received, even though to some it was the best. Plus the Hoopa film did flop in the Japanese box office. XY came out around the same time the Yokai Watch fad exploded throughout the length of Gen 6 in Japan, stealing Pokemon's thunder.

I'm not sure by what you mean about XY being poorly received. It is one of the more popular series among western fans. I don't know if it's less popular among Japanese fans or if kids, the actual target audience, didn't like it, but I don't think we'd have a lot of information to confirm that. It's also a pretty huge claim to say that they'll never want to go back to the old formula. It isn't impossible when both SM and PM handle a new region differently compared to the other series, but I just feel like it's far too early to say that they'll never go back to the old formula.

These likely scenarios could be the reason for the radical changes, with the films having it set in an Alternative Universe, Sun and Moon being the transition being a slice of life in Alola before ending Ash's Pokemon League plots by having him become the Champion of Alola. No more badge collecting for Ash, and no more touring big regions like Galar with sidetracks along the way. They now want a series where they can finally fulfil Ash's dream of becoming Pokemon Master by defeating all the past Champions: Lance, Steven, Cynthia, Alder and Diantha before confronting the strongest of them all, Leon. After that, the series will finally drop Ash and have the torch be past on to Gou for Gen 9. Ash will continue to live on in the films, while the anime will be about Gou.

Again, it seems far too early to make claims like Ash will never go on another badge collecting journey or tour around big regions like Galar. The notion that Ash winning the Alola League puts an end to his League days is quite frankly ridiculous. Not only because of how I don't think that winning the Alola League is that big of a deal, but also because it doesn't make sense. Just because Ash won one League doesn't mean that there's no point in participating in another one. That was kind of the point with how Gary defeated him after winning both the Orange Island League and the Battle Frontier. Plus, the Alola League was more along the lines of an actually good Club Battle Tournament than anything else. Ash winning a League set on easy mode is not the peak of his skills or that there's no where else to go with his character. I'm sure that the writers didn't want to negate his League victory by just going on a more traditional journey right afterwards, but I don't see how it would benefit Ash or the series for him to not take part in another League. If they do go with that rationale, then that would make me a lot more upset at the Alola League victory than I want to be.

And was it actually confirmed that Ash is going to battle against other Champions? I know that a future episode is about Leon vs. Lance, but I don't know if they've provided more information on that World Championship. I'd also have a seriously hard time believing that Ash could defeat any Champion, let alone all of them. Even if he was able to make the best teams with his reserved Pokemon, I think it would just be a stretch to see him defeat that many powerful trainers. I also highly doubt that Gou is going to be the new main character for the next series. If they wanted to just have Ash for the movies with a different lead for the series, I think that they would have done that ages ago. Plus, Gou doesn't really seem like he'd be as recognizable or iconic as Ash is. Not to mention replacing Ash completely would be a guaranteed way to make him even less popular around here.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

I'm not sure by what you mean about XY being poorly received. It is one of the more popular series among western fans. I don't know if it's less popular among Japanese fans or if kids, the actual target audience, didn't like it, but I don't think we'd have a lot of information to confirm that. It's also a pretty huge claim to say that they'll never want to go back to the old formula. It isn't impossible when both SM and PM handle a new region differently compared to the other series, but I just feel like it's far too early to say that they'll never go back to the old formula.



Again, it seems far too early to make claims like Ash will never go on another badge collecting journey or tour around big regions like Galar. The notion that Ash winning the Alola League puts an end to his League days is quite frankly ridiculous. Not only because of how I don't think that winning the Alola League is that big of a deal, but also because it doesn't make sense. Just because Ash won one League doesn't mean that there's no point in participating in another one. That was kind of the point with how Gary defeated him after winning both the Orange Island League and the Battle Frontier. Plus, the Alola League was more along the lines of an actually good Club Battle Tournament than anything else. Ash winning a League set on easy mode is not the peak of his skills or that there's no where else to go with his character. I'm sure that the writers didn't want to negate his League victory by just going on a more traditional journey right afterwards, but I don't see how it would benefit Ash or the series for him to not take part in another League. If they do go with that rationale, then that would make me a lot more upset at the Alola League victory than I want to be.

And was it actually confirmed that Ash is going to battle against other Champions? I know that a future episode is about Leon vs. Lance, but I don't know if they've provided more information on that World Championship. I'd also have a seriously hard time believing that Ash could defeat any Champion, let alone all of them. Even if he was able to make the best teams with his reserved Pokemon, I think it would just be a stretch to see him defeat that many powerful trainers. I also highly doubt that Gou is going to be the new main character for the next series. If they wanted to just have Ash for the movies with a different lead for the series, I think that they would have done that ages ago. Plus, Gou doesn't really seem like he'd be as recognizable or iconic as Ash is. Not to mention replacing Ash completely would be a guaranteed way to make him even less popular around here.

Well what would you expect from a series that's being going on for 23 years now. it's probably getting tiresome to keep recycling the same formula by now. They're obviously trying something fresh and new.

 

[Daren]

I'd also have a seriously hard time believing that Ash could defeat any Champion, let alone all of them.

Honestly, I suspect the power of the champions is just going to be just toned down when it comes time, rather than Ash to really feel like he's progressed that far naturally.
I guess it's possible Ash's training is going to kick into high gear soon and we'll see some crazy improvement in the next few years since they said his desire to be the strongest would be a consistent element , but the episodic nature of this series makes me suspect it just means he'll have some battles and small time tournaments.

If they do go with that rationale, then that would make me a lot more upset at the Alola League victory than I want to be.

I'm in the position that I'm glad he won but the more time passes after the initial excitement the more I think it was basically the worst way his Regional win could have happened, occurring in a less battle-themed series where he wasn't even planning to enter a league at first, filled with characters who are mostly not great trainers. I love him, but any league where James can place as well as Ash did in Johto feels like than enthralling--does anyone think James would stand a remote chance against the Orange League's Drake?

I think my biggest peeve is that thematically Alola feels like a mess. Yes, having all the league entrants be existing characters is a really good idea, but I think the idea of overcoming your failures and growing from them (Rica Matsumoto tweeted something similar during the Kalos backlash) feels hollow when Rowlet gag scenes his way to glory--does it feel fair that Rowlett who doesn't overcome his constant napping gets to win a League, while Infernape who struggled to control Blaze and other Pokémon from previous series that trained very hard don't?

 

[Hidden Mew]

Well what would you expect from a series that's being going on for 23 years now. it's probably getting tiresome to keep recycling the same formula by now. They're obviously trying something fresh and new.

Trying something new and fresh isn't the same thing as declaring that they'll never have Ash compete in a regional League, collect badges or have Gou replace him as the main lead. Not to mention I don't think that the other series were all that similar. They had the same basic premise of Ash and his friends traveling through a new region, or multiple ones in the case for the original series, but they were all still pretty distinct from each other and still tried new ideas and concepts to varying degrees of success. XY isn't really like BW and vice versa. I'm sure that they still wanted to be more experimental with SM, but that doesn't mean that all other Pokemon series were exactly the same until SM. Besides all that, this doesn't explain anything about any of your claims.

Honestly, I suspect the power of the champions is just going to be just toned down when it comes time, rather than Ash to really feel like he's progressed that far naturally.
I guess it's possible Ash's training is going to kick into high gear soon and we'll see some crazy improvement in the next few years since they said his desire to be the strongest would be a consistent element , but the episodic nature of this series makes me suspect it just means he'll have some battles and small time tournaments.

I think that would be a terrible way to handle Ash defeating Champions. It would kind of make the accomplishment feel cheap if they weren't already incredibly powerful trainers. Not to mention I think it would really clash with how they're presented in most games, especially in Leon's case. They hyped him up a lot in the games to where it actually did feel like a huge accomplishment to defeat a Champion and the anime going the opposite route would kind of feel cheap.

I think going for more small time tournaments would fit more along the episodic nature. If Ash was really going to battle all of the other Champions of different regions, I feel like that would have been established within the promotional material, or at least been made clear by now considering that would be a pretty huge deal.

I'm in the position that I'm glad he won but the more time passes after the initial excitement the more I think it was basically the worst way his Regional win could have happened, occurring in a less battle-themed series where he wasn't even planning to enter a league at first, filled with characters who are mostly not great trainers. I love him, but any league where James can place as well as Ash did in Johto feels like than enthralling--does anyone think James would stand a remote chance against the Orange League's Drake?

I'm pretty sure that Ash was excited about the Alola League when it was first established. I don't remember Ash acting like he wasn't going to enter it, but I could have missed something. I don't think I'm at that point with how Ash won the Alola League, but it is becoming more and more annoying how fans think that there's no point in Ash taking part in another League because of it. The Alola League victory is still a noteworthy accomplishment, but it's not that huge either. Ash has made bigger accomplishments and SM Ash is certainly not Ash at his peak. The whole League was set on easy mode with having no entry requirement, most of the trainers weren't that good, the bulk of it was one-on-one battles and Ash didn't have a good battle until his match with Guzma. The Hau battle is pretty infamous for a good reason, but I also thought that his battle with Faba was too cheap to really be a good way to start off his performance in the League. Aside from Ash, the only battle active trainers there were Kiawe, Gladion and Guzma.

I think my biggest peeve is that thematically Alola feels like a mess. Yes, having all the league entrants be existing characters is a really good idea, but I think the idea of overcoming your failures and growing from them (Rica Matsumoto tweeted something similar during the Kalos backlash) feels hollow when Rowlet gag scenes his way to glory--does it feel fair that Rowlett who doesn't overcome his constant napping gets to win a League, while Infernape who struggled to control Blaze and other Pokémon from previous series that trained very hard don't?

I think that part of the problem is that it doesn't feel natural for most of the SM cast to take part in the Alola League. It does kind of fit with how open the Alola region in and the emphasis on community, but from a character perspective, it doesn't really work that well, especially when most of Ash's classmates were doing it just for fun. The SM had training mostly off-screen if it didn't involve Z-Moves, both Primarina and Togedemaru learned new moves off screen and few of them had any battle active goals. They did try to provide some buildup for it with Sophocles and his battle with Kiawe was surprisingly good, although part of me thinks that they just wanted to make Sophocles look more like a competent battler just so his subplot wouldn't have been a waste of time. It felt like they wanted to just include everyone in a Pokemon League so they didn't have to create new character designs and because it was probably the only time they could do so, which would have been fine if it had also worked with how they established these characters and their goals throughout the series as opposed to providing buildup for it during the last stretch of SM instead.

It also probably didn't help that SM wasn't really a battle heavy series to begin with. Rowlet was never properly trained and its sleeping gag was never treated as an actual problem. Even during Johto, Ash eventually realized that Cyndaquil being too tired to light up its flame would always put them in a disadvantage and they trained to overcome that flaw. SM was much more laid back and the Grand Trials were more of a means to just get more Z-Crystals. The Island Challenge often felt like a huge afterthought, to the point where they stopped attempting to do regular Trials and just have Ash focus on Grand Trials. So going for a long League arc full of characters who were never that into battling in a series where they wanted to go for a more light hearted slice of life kind of format would feel kind of jarring.

 

[J Bouken]

SM being different from the usual Pokemon anime was in response to the games subtly changing direction. The Sun and Moon games placed greater emphasis on its characters and world, so the anime adjusted accordingly to reflect that aspect. Within those three years, the franchise as a whole shifted from using these mainline games as its backbone to targeting the substantial audience attracted by Pokemon Go. PM2019 seems to be the next step in that strategy, as its focus is far broader than what came before it, and it's very keen to acknowledge Pokemon Go's existence (if the protagonist being called "Gou", the show's catch-phrase being "Let's go!", and the Pokedex screaming "Excellent!" whenever a capture is made is anything to go by). It distances itself from being a Sword and Shield adaptation so it can target the people who haven't played those games, and engage in the franchise through other means. Notably, the show using the "Pocket Monster" title on its own, without a sub-title, is further evidence it's trying to broaden its appeal.

Meanwhile, the movies made a radical change due to declining box office numbers. The strategy with them now seems to be detaching them entirely from the anime by making them standalone. Anyone with just a basic knowledge of Pokemon can watch I Choose You! and The Power of Us, where people were less inclined to watch any of XYs movies if they hadn't seen any of the XY anime. Again, removing the sub-headings, and going purely with "Pocket Monsters" symbolises this new distance between the anime and the games.

So basically, Pokemon's new direction is likely less about any one season being poorly received, or the brief success of Yokai Watch, and more to do with its own audience changing.

 

[Daren]

I think that would be a terrible way to handle Ash defeating Champions. It would kind of make the accomplishment feel cheap if they weren't already incredibly powerful trainers. Not to mention I think it would really clash with how they're presented in most games, especially in Leon's case. They hyped him up a lot in the games to where it actually did feel like a huge accomplishment to defeat a Champion and the anime going the opposite route would kind of feel cheap.

I agree but I think previous series' set the bar of the top trainers too high; Tobias' Darkrai was soloing entire teams, and since the series has Ash boxing most of his Pokémon every few years it's really hard to have that gap closed in a way that feels realistic.
I do believe that 2019 so far avoiding the new series reset helps.

I'm pretty sure that Ash was excited about the Alola League when it was first established. I don't remember Ash acting like he wasn't going to enter it, but I could have missed something.

Sorry, I was referring to how there was no league in Alola and he stayed to attend school initially, while in previous series' he went new regions to collect the badges and enter the League. It was late and I didn't realize it looked like I saw saying he didn't care as much when the League was brought up.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Honestly, the only champion shown so far that shown as unbeatably powerful is Shirona. I can see others to be defeated easily, especially Adeku and Karune.

 

[Rocket Messiah]

Maybe this series is like Deccolora Adventures but at reverse, we start with all the filler and bad episode and in Summer we will have the real deal.

One man can have hope , right,right?

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

If I see a character who is very passionate about their goal, experiences a lot of setbacks and struggles their way to accomplishing it, then I can care about their success. If I see a character who has it too easy, and whose only obstacles to achieving what they want are simply time and effort, then I find it harder to get invested.

Considering how much pokémon there is to catch and we're only 9 episodes into the series, there will be many challenges Gou needs to face and conquer before being able to succeed. There is nothing challenging at cathing a random pokémon because it's just a very small part of his actual goal.

The Sun and Moon games placed greater emphasis on its characters and world, so the anime adjusted accordingly to reflect that aspect.

There was barely any emphasis on characters and worldbuilding in SM anime.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I agree but I think previous series' set the bar of the top trainers too high; Tobias' Darkrai was soloing entire teams, and since the series has Ash boxing most of his Pokémon every few years it's really hard to have that gap closed in a way that feels realistic.
I do believe that 2019 so far avoiding the new series reset helps.

That's understandable. I prefer for them to set the bar high for Champions, but it does make it more difficult to see how Ash can defeat them when his team changes all the time.

Sorry, I was referring to how there was no league in Alola and he stayed to attend school initially, while in previous series' he went new regions to collect the badges and enter the League. It was late and I didn't realize it looked like I saw saying he didn't care as much when the League was brought up.

Ah, that makes sense. It's okay. I've done the same thing whenever I may posts too late at night myself. On one hand, Ash not choosing to stay in Alola because of a League does fit with the Sun/Moon games. The Alola League wasn't mentioned until pretty late in the games' storyline. But on the other hand, I think that does tie into a big problem I had with Ash for SM. There was no clear goal for Ash in SM for the longest time. It couldn't have been the Pokemon School. That become less relevant over time and basically an excuse to keep the main cast together on one island. Not to mention it barely felt like a school. I just started rewatching the first season of SM and it is extremely weird to see that there were at one point other students in the background. They weren't just a fever dream. It couldn't have been the Island Challenge because that was clearly an afterthought. Ash rarely brought it up and they gave up on doing regular Trials about halfway through the Island Challenge. I'd give them more credit for being creative with adapting the Mimikyu Totem Pokemon battle if it wasn't just Nanu trying to avoid battling Ash and if the battle was actually good for Ash. They seemingly just wanted Ash to have fun in Alola with his new friends, which isn't a bad idea, but it did feel pretty jarring when Ash had always focused on going towards his next Gym and working towards a League. PM may also have a similar kind of problem with Ash not having a clear goal at the moment.

Honestly, the only champion shown so far that shown as unbeatably powerful is Shirona. I can see others to be defeated easily, especially Adeku and Karune.

I don't know about that. Considering how they've always emphasized how powerful the Elite 4 and by extension the Champion are with each series, I think it would be really hard to see that many of them defeated easily.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

I don't know about that. Considering how they've always emphasized how powerful the Elite 4 and by extension the Champion are with each series, I think it would be really hard to see that many of them defeated easily.

How? Other than the Sinnoh E4, Shirona's group, we barely see anything of other E4.

 

[RileyXY1]

How? Other than the Sinnoh E4, Shirona's group, we barely see anything of other E4.

We also saw all of Kanto's E4, albeit in different capacities.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

We also saw all of Kanto's E4, albeit in different capacities.

Barely.