Normal type, would you buff it?

[Almonds]

Make it super effective against at least one type. Like @Muur; said, I'd choose the Fairy-type because irl there's no such thing as Fairies.

Normal=somewhat Realistic=Not believing in 'Fairies'

Except by that logic, stuff like Ghost and Dragon would be weak to Normal as well.

And people can not believe in psychic powers.

Arguably, yes. if those three types are weak to the normal type in addition to Fairy, then I'd say it would be good for the Normal-type. Super effective against four types, one immunity, one weakness? I'd say cool.

 

[GhostFingers]

I hate the state of the Normal type, There's no reason to use normal moves without STAB or one of the fun new -ate abilities.

I would make normal moves SE to other normal types (like ghost), or SE to fairy types (since they were introduced to balance the match ups). Both may be a bit much.

Making Fairies weak to Normal moves would be a bad idea. All you'd need to do would be to give your favourite Dragon Return and suddenly it's like Fairy never existed.

I would've made it super effective on Fairy, tbh. Unless a new type comes in I would leave it as is.

Make it super effective against at least one type. Like @Muur; said, I'd choose the Fairy-type because irl there's no such thing as Fairies.

I'm a fairy. Sometimes a fairy princess, occasionally a goddess and at least once a day, a bitch.
A few other people make a suggestion of an idea, and no one bats an eye. I make the SAME suggestion, and everyone loses their minds! (Yes i'm paraphrasing AND exaggerating for effect.)

Balancing the whole type-chart and having the match-ups make sense is trickier than one might think. The only thing to do would be make it SE to itself AND/OR make all type vs self neutral match-ups into NVE. (i.e. flying would resist flying, fairy would resist fairy etc.)

Super effective against four types, one immunity, one weakness? I'd say cool.

I'd say overkill.

 

[Almonds]

Super effective against four types, one immunity, one weakness? I'd say cool.

I'd say overkill.

Then add a few more weaknesses along with Fighting. Have Normal weak to Fire, Water, and Ground - the three natural disasters.

 

[homer.homs]

My suggestions:

Defensively - to make Normal resist Fire, Grass, Water and to remove its weakness to Fighting while keeping its Ghost immunity
Offensively - to make it strong/weak against itself, (like Dragon is) replacing its Fighting weakness. Rock and Steel may continue to resist Normal.

Opinions?

What are the explanations(scientifically) on why the Normal type should resist Fire, Grass and Water? Also, if Normal type is weak/strong against itself, and Rock/Steel still resist normal, does it make more useless?

That is what I like about Normal type, neutrality. Maybe that is its strength. The stable Rock/Steel resistance and weak to fighting make it more reliable offensive type than any other types. Basically, I don't mind using a lone Normal type since the only thing that I'm worried about is the Fighting type in terms of defensive tactics. In terms of offensive, I can penetrate Steel, Rock and Ghost type with other move even without a STAB. Remember, Khangaskhan is deadly esp with its Mega form by just using Return. Also, Kecleon will put your opponent's offensive tactics in test by using its ability and wise usage of Substitute.

My point here is that, by proper usage of the Pokemon, with good IVs and wise movepool(and sometimes, a good support) can make Normal type a deadly type even against Ghost, Steel and Rock type Pokemon.

 

[GhostFingers]

That is what I like about Normal type, neutrality. Maybe that is its strength. The stable Rock/Steel resistance and weak to fighting make it more reliable offensive type than any other types.

My point here is that, by proper usage of the Pokemon, with good IVs and wise movepool(and sometimes, a good support) can make Normal type a deadly type even against Ghost, Steel and Rock type Pokemon.

Well, it should be SE to something, so why not itself? It makes no less sense than any other suggestion. Offensively the moves of the type sucks (resisted by 2, ineffective to one), but the pokemon don't because they have access to other types of moves. Bite/Crunch is great for dealing with Ghosts, for example. Defensively they fare better though, the ghost immunity is key. Replace weakness to fighting with weakness to itself and it still remains fairly neutral, and viable to use normal-type moves beyond just STAB or for cutting trees & moving boulders in the overworld.

I'd overhaul the whole type chart if i could, but i wouldn't tinker with the normal type too much. It wouldn't make sense to.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Cut sounds like it could potentially have an increased crit ratio (making it the normal verson of Karate chop),

It already exists, say hi to Slash.
Yes, I'd merge Cut with Slash, making Cut have 70 base power and increased crit hit ratio and I would also buff Strength's damage to 100 or even 110.

Hmm.. merge Cut with Slash. Now there's an idea. Best i could think of was merge Cut with Fury Cutter (before gen 6 buffed it to ridiculous proportions). Strength would be better off with a secondary effect or something, if it had BP 100 it wouldn't be too different from Return at max friendship. Sort of like how Rock Climb has 90 BP and chance of confusion (but oh, that bad accuracy! Rock climb needed to be rock type anyway though. It's in the name in english and japanese, and if used on a No guard Machamp would be devastating - in the fun evil way.)

Strength is used to move rocks. What if Strength's "secondary effect" was overriding resistance or even being SE against Rock and Steel? The same as Freeze-Dry against Water.

 

[homer.homs]

That is what I like about Normal type, neutrality. Maybe that is its strength. The stable Rock/Steel resistance and weak to fighting make it more reliable offensive type than any other types.

My point here is that, by proper usage of the Pokemon, with good IVs and wise movepool(and sometimes, a good support) can make Normal type a deadly type even against Ghost, Steel and Rock type Pokemon.

Well, it should be SE to something, so why not itself? It makes no less sense than any other suggestion.

Well, you better have a good explanation why a Normal type should SE itself. Because as far as I know, every SE, Resistance and immunity of each and every type has proper reason and explanation. Because if you just said something like "..it should be SE to something.." is not really a good and reasonable explanation. and if you failed to reason out, then the suggestion makes no sense at all too.

Offensively the moves of the type sucks (resisted by 2, ineffective to one), but the pokemon don't because they have access to other types of moves.

You are right, offensively, Normal Moves sucks(except for Boomburst), maybe that is the reason why most Normal type Pokemon has a lot of access to different kind of moves. Therefore, it is up to you how to formulate a strategy for it. Though you will never get a STAB for that, but a wise stats(good IV and EV) and good item will do the absence of STAB.

Bite/Crunch is great for dealing with Ghosts, for example. Defensively they fare better though, the ghost immunity is key. Replace weakness to fighting with weakness to itself and it still remains fairly neutral, and viable to use normal-type moves beyond just STAB or for cutting trees & moving boulders in the overworld.

Why so afraid of Ghost and Fighting type? If you are so afraid of Ghost type, I think, it is better to use Shadow Ball since it is accessible to almost all Pokemon through TM than Crunch and Bite. Since Crunch and Bite are not accessible through TM. If you are afraid of Fighting type, then use Speed since most fighting type are slow(except for Mienshao and Medicham of course). But in case you get to fight Mienshao and Mega Medicham, then you better..hmm..switch out. LOL. In terms of move against Steel and Rock, then use Fighting type moves like Brick Break or Low Sweep since these two are accessible through TM.

I'd overhaul the whole type chart if i could, but i wouldn't tinker with the normal type too much. It wouldn't make sense to.

No need to overhaul as it is good as it is. Every type has its weaknesses and strengths. Even the type that are considered strongest is now has a triple weaknesses. Yes, I'm talking about Dragon type. Weakness against Ice, Dragon, and now, Fairy make it more fair to everyone. But if you consider a one weakness is already downside, think again. Fire has its standard two weakness, mainly water and ground. Grass has its three weaknesses, mainly Bug, Flying and Fire type, and so many more to mention. Offensively, ineffective to Rock and Steel type doesn't make Normal type useless as you have a different option of moves to use.

 

[GhostFingers]

OK let me explain what i meant. "..it should be SE to something..." because every type should have at least one strength, for balance.

Bite/Crunch is great for dealing with Ghosts, for example.

Why so afraid of Ghost and Fighting type?

This is just an example, i was thinking of when i trained my Patrat and got a surprising amount of utility out of him. Look, I know there are many coverage options, I wasn't really complaining that there weren't. Just that Normal having NO SE match-up is unfair when all other types have at least 2 (except Pioson in gens II-V).

I'd overhaul the whole type chart if i could, but i wouldn't tinker with the normal type too much. It wouldn't make sense to.

No need to overhaul as it is good as it is. [/QUOTE]
Hypothetically you wouldn't like the chance to alter or tweak a few things here & there? I think a lot of people would. Hell, even GF themselves alter stuff. Like how in gen VI electric types can no longer be paralyzed, or Steel lost resistances to dark/ghost.

 

[henrymidfields]

Field moves in general, and TM moves in particular such as Cut, Strength, and Gen 4 Rock Climb should never have been Normal to start with. At least if it was some other type, we could use those moves for super-effective STAB/type-counter moves. Cut should have been Steel, Strength should be fighting (or at least have a conditional type advantage like Dry Freeze) and Rock Climb should have been Rock/Ground.

 

[firepanda]

Normal's not too bad actually. Neutral damage is more important than super effectiveness, and normal can hit 14 types neutrally. If ghost only resisted it, normal would be one of the best attacking types. It's basically a non-entity, maybe a bit on the bad side, defensively, since pretty much everything hits it neutrally. Its only weakness is really common competitively, but in-game that's not too bad. It even has an (admittedly rare) immunity to switch in on.

So it's only slightly below-par as a type. What makes up for it is that normal-types have fantastic movepools and coverage. With that in mind, normal is one of the better types. It's a pity that normal-types tend to have useless stats.

Worse types:
Psychic (Weak to all those dark moves; ineffective against dark; resisted by steel; best reliable STAB is base 90)
Fire (SR, EQ, water weak; resisted by common water and dragon types)
Ice (No resistances apart from... ice; ice-types are usually slow, so they always end up taking neutral or worse hits; resisted by water and steel; SR weak)
Bug (Resisted by seven types; SR weak; barring the rare Megahorn, best reliable STAB is base 90)
Grass (resisted by seven types; weak to five types)

 

[homer.homs]

OK let me explain what i meant. "..it should be SE to something..." because every type should have at least one strength, for balance.

That doesn't make sense at all if that is your sole reason.

Why so afraid of Ghost and Fighting type?

This is just an example, i was thinking of when i trained my Patrat and got a surprising amount of utility out of him. Look, I know there are many coverage options, I wasn't really complaining that there weren't. Just that Normal having NO SE match-up is unfair when all other types have at least 2 (except Pioson in gens II-V).

Then use other moves that are effective against Ghost and use your stats to balance it out with Fighting types. Simple isn't?

Hypothetically you wouldn't like the chance to alter or tweak a few things here & there? I think a lot of people would. Hell, even GF themselves alter stuff. Like how in gen VI electric types can no longer be paralyzed, or Steel lost resistances to dark/ghost.

Well, the topic is a question if you're going to buff a Normal Type Pokemon, not your dream SE, Weakness and resistance.

 

[ArchangelSariel]

My suggestions:

Defensively - to make Normal resist Fire, Grass, Water and to remove its weakness to Fighting while keeping its Ghost immunity
Offensively - to make it strong/weak against itself, (like Dragon is) replacing its Fighting weakness. Rock and Steel may continue to resist Normal.

Opinions?

Guy 1 while making Gen V: "Hey guys you know how everyone complains about dragons being OP since they have so few weaknesses and so many resistances to common types? Let's make a type that's immune to dragon attacks and deals super effective damage against them!"
Give that man a promotion!
Guy 2 while making Gen VI: "Hey everyone you know how we made Fairy type to couter Dragon? Well I think that normal types should become the new dragon types! Let's get rid of their fighting weakness and replace it with Normal and make it resist all the starter types! Oh and keeps it's immunity! So that way it has one two less weaknesses than dragon type, one less resistance, and one more imunity! That was Chansey and Blissey and normal Arceus will be so OP that gamers will have to create a tier called mega-Uber just to counter this change!"
Guy 2 get's thrown out top floor window.
All I have to say to this.
Normal typing was created to be the epitome of non special pokemon that were weak only outclassed by the overly weak bug type. Both of these typings also have it's strong Pokemon. This define's it pretty well.

Normal type is supposed to be the "worst" type. It's supossed to be the "average joe" of types, it's not special and it doesn't do anything special, Rock and Steel resists it because an average person can't break or at least dent rocks and steel, it's weak to Fighting because obviously a person not trained in martial arts will get his ass kicked by someone who is. Giving it resistances would go against that.

Also, with the advent of Inverse Battle, it becomes the most broken type in Inverse Battle, so i'm glad Normal is the way it is.

Now I see a lot of people talking about lack of poweful moves...
Boomburst
Double-edge
Egg bomb
Endeavor
Explosion
Extreme Speed
Flail
Giga-impact
Hyper Beam
Judgement
Last Resort
Mega Kick
Return
Self-Destruct
Skull Bash
Techno Blast
Thrash
Trump Card

All of the moves listed above are either over 100 power, or have a capability to be over 100 with the exception of Extreme Speed which I included cause it has 80 plus speed priority. Also it has the two most powerful moves in all of pokemon, even though yes they are suicide moves. But in a tank pokemon they can be amazing. A physical sweeper let's say Metagross has taken out three pokemon but is on it's last leg. Opponet sends out their next pokemon. You can use explosion and deal a heck of a lot of damage as long as it isn't rock steel or ghost. Now yes a lot of the moves above have draw backs, but so do most of the 100+ power moves. Heck all of the starter types have a move just for starter final evolutions that is based of the normal type Hyper Beam. So Porygon Z and hyper beam and Slaking with Giga impact... both are the highest in their respective attack stat of the normal typing both get stab and both have 150 base power and both have to recharge for 1 turn... (plus Slaking would have to recharge anyway do to Truant)

Normal type isn't as bad as people make it out to be. And it's just fine as it is. Some people just don't know how to use it right. Yes it suffers from no super effective moves But it benefits from few weaknesses. The only problem is that fighting type has such a large coverage offensively that almost everyone has atleast one fighting attack in their team. But that too can be worked around

 

[GhostFingers]

That doesn't make sense at all if that is your sole reason.

Balancing issues aren't a good reason to you?

Then use other moves that are effective against Ghost and use your stats to balance it out with Fighting types. Simple isn't?

The coverage moves have no chance of STAB. Pidgeot, for example can STAB SE against a regular fighting type, covering its normal weakness.

 

[homer.homs]

Balancing issues aren't a good reason to you?

There's no issue about the balancing thing. But you also have to consider the reason behind those SE, resistance weaknesses that you want. Because Pokemon Company is, as far as I know, made those SE, resistance and weaknesses with a valid reason and explanation. Not just you're "it should be SE to something..." and "because every type should have at least one strength, for balance" statement. However, if you give a valid reason on your proposed SE, weaknesses and resistance for Normal type, I might consider it. You want an example? Let me give you one about the reason why Steel type and Fire type match up. Steel is weak against fire because fire can melt down or tamper a steel with application of fire. Another one, Psychic is weak against Bug, Dark and Ghost type because psychologically, these three are the most common cause of fear. You want another one? The most basic, Rock and Ground type weak against Water type because water can erode those two naturally. And the most basic is Flying type resist Ground type..duh! Do I need to explain that??

See, every SE, weaknesses and resistance has it's own reason and explanation(sometimes, scientific reasons). That's the reason why I cannot accept your reason of "it should be SE to something..." and "because every type should have at least one strength, for balance" statement. Because that is not a proper and valid reason and explanation.

Then use other moves that are effective against Ghost and use your stats to balance it out with Fighting types. Simple isn't?

The coverage moves have no chance of STAB. Pidgeot, for example can STAB SE against a regular fighting type, covering its normal weakness.

Sometimes, STAB is not really important if you have a good IV and EV distribution and proper held item. Also, as I said in my earlier post, with the wise and intelligent use of the move, even without STAB, you can 1HKO or 2HKO your opponent.

 

[aliveatnight]

I'm not sure if this is a popular opinion (probably not), but I like the normal types as they are. They're...well, normal! And they do have their STAB as well, which can give them a pretty good bonus on those normal type moves.

 

[firepanda]

Balancing issues aren't a good reason to you?

There are no balancing issues. Normal type isn't SE against anything, but it hits 14 types neutrally. That's fantastic coverage.
If you made a type weak to normal, it will not significantly improve normal as a type, just weaken the other type since everything can learn normal moves. The exception is maybe Fairies, since poisons are shit (worse than normal, in fact) and steels aren't great offensively since they are resisted by four types, including the common water type. Then normals might see a boost in OU, since fairies are OP. More likely is that the current Pokemon will just start packing Return.

The coverage moves have no chance of STAB. Pidgeot, for example can STAB SE against a regular fighting type, covering its normal weakness.

Isn't that the case with every monotype Pokemon? And it still might be worth carrying the coverage regardless, which normals have plenty of. Metagross often packs thunderpunch for instance (or used to when I used it), despite no STAB.

 

[CynthiaLover]

I'm with @aliveatnight;, Normal should remain as is. It's the neutral type, the midway point between all other types, so it's only natural that it stays the way it is. Think of it as the center of the type web; it acts as a support for all the other types. While SE STAB would be nice, that's why Normal types learn a wide range of moves. Look at my web analogy again: Normal acts as the center of the web, which means it can support all types as well as be supported by them. Besides, it's got good coverage anyway: 14 types it hits for normal damage, one immunity, one weakness, resisted by two, one that's immune to it, that's not too shabby all things considering. It's the middle ground of types. So it's fine the way it is.

 

[TheCableGuy]

I agree. Normal isn't about getting off Super Effective Hits.
It's all about getting a Base-line, standard damage.
Not everything in Pokemon is about getting Big Crits.

Probably wouldn't hurt to give it resistance to Fairy maybe but i still don't think it NEEDS it.

I also always thought that they should merge the HMs with normal attacks.
I also thought Slash and Cut should of been merged but Fury Cutter kind of Makes sense as well.

Strength should been given a secondary, in combat effect like +1 Attack BEFORE dealing Damage.

 

[Yamitora1]

They should have made normal immune to fairy type moves, then at least they'd have two immunities. They also should have made normal moves super effective against fairy types

 

[IlluminationTheory]

Normal's in a good place. Great defensive type, and what they lack in STAB and super effective damage they make up for in versatility. Standard, but never boring, and that ghost immunity is delicious.

If I were to buff it, I'd only buff it very gently. Add a few abilities...

SKEPTIC - Takes reduced damage from Psychic, Dark and Ghost attacks. Takes increased damage from Normal attacks.
OPPORTUNIST - Normal attacks deal double damage to a Pokémon that has just used a status move.
MUSICIAN - Sound-based attacks deal super effective damage to Dragon type Pokémon.

So normal pokémon can deal super effective damage... but only in exceptional circumstances. A couple of strategic niches, rather than an overhaul of the type chart. It's a strong, neutral type. Needs very few changes.