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Now That Contests Are Retconned into Showcases, I Guess these Contest Pokémon Now Have to be Boxed

Blob

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Since battles run off of dancing, some of these Pokémon are going to be problematic...


Hoenn and Kanto Contestants: (Only counting those who made it to the Grand Festivals)

May's Blaziken - Could make good combos with other Pokémon, but overall it's best at the battle stage.
May's Venusaur - Sadly too big and bulky... and ugly. There's a reason why Shauna didn't evolve her Ivysaur.
Harley's entire team. Let's face it, he's best when it comes to battling and deception. Most of his team is "too ugly" and poor Wigglytuff only knows Body Slam and Double Slap.
Drew's Flygon - Despite Drew's team looking like they'd be good at dancing, there's probably a size limit that Flygon reaches.
Anthony's entire team. Yeah, I can't imagine a Swalot and a Pinir being good dancers.
Robert's Claydol - Waaaaay too ugly and since it can barely move any limbs, it would make for a terrible dancer.
Solidad's Lapras - Isn't nimble enough to dance on land, so unless they make water contests, Lapras will sadly have to be boxed.
Solidad's Slowbro - For a Pokémon that needs time to warm up, dancing really isn't its forté.


Sinnoh Contestants:

Dawn's Mamoswine - Too big, too ugly and too bulky. Has Mamoswine been dragging her whole team down? If only she kept Ambipom...
Zoey's Gastrodon - Gastrodon't know how to dance.
Kenny's entire team. Let's face it, even if they were good dancers, his team would likely have been disqualified for being too ugly. This is because beauty standards in contests now are WAY too high.
Nando's Armaldo - Well, at least there's always the leagues...
Jessilina's Yanmega - Again, another unfortunate case of strict beauty standards.


You know who I think could excel at contests? Tierno. His whole team was MADE to dance!
 

Hidden Mew

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A part of me isn't surprised with this retcon. To a degree, it does feel like Journeys wants to match more with the video games, such as how Pokemon are registered to the Pokedex upon capture and the personalities of the Galar starters match more with their Pokedex entries than other starters. So the idea that they'd want to make Contests match more with how they are in the games isn't a huge stretch.

But it seems like such a waste. It takes away a lot of what made the goal compelling and honestly more difficult than Gyms. I don't know if the retcon has been confirmed yet since the episode just aired, but making Contests more similar to Showcases just feels like such a shame. Maybe it shouldn't really mean much. The chances of Contests becoming a main focus of the anime again always felt like a long shot at best, but since that was the best goal they've introduced for the female leads so far, I still believe that the anime lost something important after they had to remove Contests and they haven't found anything to make up for that loss even after all these years, Contests being more like a Showcase is just kind of sad.
 

Konja7

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It seems the name for the Contest in JN105 was "Pokemon Contest Live" (aka Japanese name for "Pokemon Contest Spectacular" from ORAS).

So, it isn't necessarily a retcon. It can just be a different type of Contests in-universe.

That said, I really doubt the old Contests will return, since Contest Spectacular in the anime are more similar to the game.
 

Hidden Mew

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It seems the name for the Contest in JN105 was "Pokemon Contest Live" (aka Japanese name for "Pokemon Contest Spectacular" from ORAS).

So, it isn't necessarily a retcon. It can just be a different type of Contests in-universe.

That said, I really doubt the old Contests will return, since Contest Spectacular in the anime are more similar to the game.
That's a relief. I was hoping that people were jumping to conclusions about this and the idea of characters boxing their Pokemon in particular definitely felt like an overreaction, but I also wouldn't have put it pass the writers to retcon Contests to make them match more with the video games either. It's still seems a bit questionable to have the first Contest in ages altered to fit more of Serena's skills as a Pokemon Performer, if the comments about it being more similar to a Showcase are anything to go by, but that could also be the result of having Serena use Contests as part of her Performer training journey in the first place, which definitely got a good amount of backlash back in the day.
 

Sai

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The episode pretty much implies Lisia's contests were new. It's obvious May and Dawn still battle.
 

Kurolegacy

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That's a relief. I was hoping that people were jumping to conclusions about this and the idea of characters boxing their Pokemon in particular definitely felt like an overreaction, but I also wouldn't have put it pass the writers to retcon Contests to make them match more with the video games either. It's still seems a bit questionable to have the first Contest in ages altered to fit more of Serena's skills as a Pokemon Performer, if the comments about it being more similar to a Showcase are anything to go by, but that could also be the result of having Serena use Contests as part of her Performer training journey in the first place, which definitely got a good amount of backlash back in the day.
That backlash honestly never made any sense to me especially when Contests and Showcases are very similar on a fundamental level. Even if Contests had a battle round, you’d need to pass the appeal round just to get to it. As such, mastering the skills that would be needed to get you through a Contest would only help her skills as a Performer. It really feels people that got upset at another girl becoming a Coordinator we’re only looking at it from a surface level and not the full picture. Hell, even Ash entered the Wallace Cup as a means of training and it worked for him.
 

A Wild Luxray

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There was no need to change contests. I'm actually annoyed they did. I personally hate how ever since SuMo, they've been trying too hard to stick as close to the games as possible, sticking to the plots as closely as possible, adapting certain mechanics to a tee, and even avoiding anime exclusive towns and such. By doing so they robbed contests of what made them unique.
 

Sai

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These aren't the same as the other Contests so they didn't retcon anything. We obviously weren't going to get a whole battle round in a single episode. There's most likely different venues of Contests now since the writers aren't going to say May and Dawn don't have contest battles anymore.

That being said it really is nothing short of a miracle the old AG Contests had the battle round added. If all May did was appeals, and remember the animation in early Hoenn wasn't as impressive as later seasons, man do I think the Contests would have bombed in the anime back then. May would have been bashed and hated for not being a battler like Misty and she would have been even more stereotyped as a girly girl than she was already. I also like that the old Contests didn't have dresses or such but that's a minor issue.

If Contests failed in Hoenn then they probably would have not brought them into Battle Frontier and they might have even reverted back to Misty for the arc. Then for DP I assume Dawn wouldn't be a Coordinator but something else.
 

SamurottMan

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Actually, there's enough details to distinguish contests from showcases.

Kalos anime showed us that showcases are basically just beauty pageants. Everything is pretty much shallow - it has to be cute and pretty. The performances in the latest episode shows exactly that - the moves are the main star. Not to mention the all-girls thing (and if I saw right, the JN contest also had only girls participating)

Meanwhile, the Sinnoh anime went into great detail about how appeal rounds (and overall the entire contest) is about the skill of a trainer in making their Pokemon look good (ie Coordinator). The attack combos are just accessories for the Pokemon to shine and not just pretty fireworks like how Showcases and JN Contest did them.

So it sucks that we probably aren't getting a proper contest ever, but at least the Sinnoh grand festival was a great finish for it.
 
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Mew2

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I'm beginning to wonder if Dawn not worrying all that much about making the Contest in her first return arc at the end of the second episode has a whole new meaning with what seems to have happened with Contests in Journeys. Now the Contests in Sinnoh may still have the Battle rounds and there may still be standard animé Contests in Hoenn, but if we don't see them, then Dawn's lack of concern about potentially not making it to that Contest on time may have a new meaning. And if Contests have truly been retconned into not having a Battle round anymore, I wonder what that would mean for May since she seemed to be more battle oriented in her Contests and her Pokémon.
 

Hidden Mew

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That backlash honestly never made any sense to me especially when Contests and Showcases are very similar on a fundamental level. Even if Contests had a battle round, you’d need to pass the appeal round just to get to it. As such, mastering the skills that would be needed to get you through a Contest would only help her skills as a Performer. It really feels people that got upset at another girl becoming a Coordinator we’re only looking at it from a surface level and not the full picture. Hell, even Ash entered the Wallace Cup as a means of training and it worked for him.
I could understand the backlash honestly. While there are similarities to Contest appeal rounds and Showcases, they still require different set of skills. In Showcases, the trainer is part of the act, up on center stage alongside her Pokemon, while in Contests, the Pokemon are always the stars. Repeating the same routine without enough variations on it, which is something that Serena and especially Shauna did for their Showcases, probably wouldn't be as effective for a Contest appeal round either. Not to mention Serena was never a battler to begin with and Contests still require Coordinators to be battle active.

All things considered, it still kind of made sense for Serena to use Contests to help her Performances, if only because it would give her something to do as opposed to staying in Kalos to trainer like everyone was expecting, but I'm still not sure how well Serena's Performance skills would translate for Contests and vice versa. Although, there were definitely people upset over another girl becoming a Coordinator too. People back then and even now kept wondering why Serena wasn't a Coordinator from the start too.

These aren't the same as the other Contests so they didn't retcon anything. We obviously weren't going to get a whole battle round in a single episode. There's most likely different venues of Contests now since the writers aren't going to say May and Dawn don't have contest battles anymore.

That being said it really is nothing short of a miracle the old AG Contests had the battle round added. If all May did was appeals, and remember the animation in early Hoenn wasn't as impressive as later seasons, man do I think the Contests would have bombed in the anime back then. May would have been bashed and hated for not being a battler like Misty and she would have been even more stereotyped as a girly girl than she was already. I also like that the old Contests didn't have dresses or such but that's a minor issue.

If Contests failed in Hoenn then they probably would have not brought them into Battle Frontier and they might have even reverted back to Misty for the arc. Then for DP I assume Dawn wouldn't be a Coordinator but something else.
Considering how rare Misty actually battled, hearing complaints like that would have been kind of weird. I'm sure that would have been the case if Contests were just the appeals and it probably wouldn't have helped with the backlash May got at the time, but it wasn't like Misty was much of a battler either. I don't think that they would have brought back Misty for the Battle Frontier arc. Even if Contests didn't work out, they'd still probably keep May around for the rest of AG and find something else for her to do. Misty wouldn't have much of a reason to stay when she was set on being a good Gym Leader. They probably would have found something different for Dawn to do in DP, but that would have resulted in both a drastically different series and characterization for Dawn.
 

Sai

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Considering how rare Misty actually battled, hearing complaints like that would have been kind of weird. I'm sure that would have been the case if Contests were just the appeals and it probably wouldn't have helped with the backlash May got at the time, but it wasn't like Misty was much of a battler either. I don't think that they would have brought back Misty for the Battle Frontier arc. Even if Contests didn't work out, they'd still probably keep May around for the rest of AG and find something else for her to do. Misty wouldn't have much of a reason to stay when she was set on being a good Gym Leader. They probably would have found something different for Dawn to do in DP, but that would have resulted in both a drastically different series and characterization for Dawn.
In the context of the anime back then when all we had was Misty/Brock they did seem like battlers at the time since we didn't have any companions to compare them to. Misty was still a gym leader and had at least a few battles each season and the Whirl Cup and about 8 pokemon by the end of the OS. What I mean is if we went from that to May doing no battling and only appeals, it definitely would not have gone over well. People were already wrongly stereotyping contests back then or saying May seemed weak and too girly, now imagine if Contests really had no battling the backlash would have been far worse. Also remember the Contests were an experiment at first, if they really did badly in Hoenn they probably would have had no reason to put them in Kanto in a second arc.

Also nowadays the AG Contests do feel pretty far removed from what Contests evolved into anyway since there was too much focus on battling back then and less on using creative appeals. So either way I would not expect them to resemble what they were from 20 years ago.
 

Konja7

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People back then and even now kept wondering why Serena wasn't a Coordinator from the start too.

The most likely reason was that they wanted to create something similar to "Contests" from ORAS (and adding an idol vibe). However, Contests already existed in the anime and were pretty different, so they created Showcases.

Now, the current staff doesn't seem to care so much that Contests were pretty different in the past, then the Contest in Journeys is pretty similar to the games. And the only explanation for the change would be that it's called Contest Spectacular.
 

Hidden Mew

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In the context of the anime back then when all we had was Misty/Brock they did seem like battlers at the time since we didn't have any companions to compare them to. Misty was still a gym leader and had at least a few battles each season and the Whirl Cup and about 8 pokemon by the end of the OS. What I mean is if we went from that to May doing no battling and only appeals, it definitely would not have gone over well. People were already wrongly stereotyping contests back then or saying May seemed weak and too girly, now imagine if Contests really had no battling the backlash would have been far worse. Also remember the Contests were an experiment at first, if they really did badly in Hoenn they probably would have had no reason to put them in Kanto in a second arc.
Even without comparing them to future companions, I think it would have been a bit of a stretch to call Misty a battler. She wasn't an official Gym Leader until she left the cast and aside from the Whirl Cup, she didn't have a lot of memorable battles during Johto. I can see why going from Misty to May with just appeals wouldn't have gone over well regardless, but I just think calling Misty a battler isn't quite accurate, or at least kind of oversells her a bit. They might have still kept Contests for the Battle Frontier since they were still featured in the games even if it didn't work out for Hoenn, but they probably wouldn't have used Contests in DP at least.

The most likely reason was that they wanted to create something similar to "Contests" from ORAS (and adding an idol vibe). However, Contests already existed in the anime and were pretty different, so they created Showcases.

Now, the current staff doesn't seem to care so much that Contests were pretty different in the past, then the Contest in Journeys is pretty similar to the games. And the only explanation for the change would be that it's called Contest Spectacular.
OR/AS weren't even announced until XY's second year, so I'm no sure if that's exactly the case, especially when Showcases really aren't that similar to Contests as a whole. They probably were trying to capitalize on the popularity of idols. I always figured that they didn't make Serena into a Coordinator from the beginning because they weren't in X/Y. By the time Contests were more marketing relevant again, it was already the middle of XY's run and that was way too late to start a Contest arc.
 

Blob

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A Pokemon can do anything if trained well enough, so the idea that people need to start shelving their partners is quite honestly ridiculous.
True, but there's also the issue of "no boys allowed" in the current contests, which was never a thing in any of the games or anime before Journeys. Drew, Harley, Kenny, Anthony, Robert and Nando are going to have to quit, all because the writers made the contests into glorified beauty contests. It's pretty sexist having girls need to dress up and dance, while boys have to battle. Even then, girls can still battle, so male trainers who were set for contests are thrown under the bus.
 

Silktree

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Last I checked, the last anime contest we saw was in 2010. Nothing has really changed (OLM abandoned the concept long ago) except for the redundant differentiation between contests and showcases.

Anyway, I think that Delphox is on the ugly side and yet it now belongs to two idols. I think that most Pokemon could pull off decent appeals with the right approach. Alas, we've seen the last of that goal. How will we cope?

True, but there's also the issue of "no boys allowed" in the current contests, which was never a thing in any of the games or anime before Journeys.
Hoenn contests still allow for boys to enter. Only Kalos is sexist.
 
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Konja7

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True, but there's also the issue of "no boys allowed" in the current contests, which was never a thing in any of the games or anime before Journeys. Drew, Harley, Kenny, Anthony, Robert and Nando are going to have to quit, all because the writers made the contests into glorified beauty contests. It's pretty sexist having girls need to dress up and dance, while boys have to battle. Even then, girls can still battle, so male trainers who were set for contests are thrown under the bus.

There are still boys in the current Contests. In fact, the first performer in the Normal Rank was a boy (he has a Breelom).

I also think there was a boy in the Master Rank, but I'm not totally sure.
 
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Ghost Diplocaulus

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(and if I saw right, the JN contest also had only girls participating)
Actually, I'm pretty sure there was at least one male trainer in the Contest Spectacular (the one who used Breloom), so no, Contests even in their watered-down state aren't a girls only thing now. Thankfully.
 

Sai

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I watched the episode again with subs and again Lisia called them Contest Live, and that strength doesn't matter in "these" contests. At the end Lisia also asked Serena to perform in an idol group with her.

It's pretty obvious traditional contests still exist since they went out of their way to differentiate them. Also notice how neither Serena or Lisia won a contest ribbon when the competition ended further making it different than tegular contests. It's pretty obvious May and Dawn still do battling in their contests.
 
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