Now that the game's are closer...Thoughts on "Reverting to simplicity"?

[lovandra]

Guh... I keep hearing this, but I don't understand WHY. I picked up the demo of Yokai Watch and just did NOT enjoy myself. And I'm not a hard girl to entertain.

I also didn't understand how Yokai Watch is more appealing than Pokemon game, even after I picked up the game myself. It's fun and 'simple' game to past the time, with basic concepts 'Catch Them All', but I left it after I finish the main story.

But when I give the game to my little brother, 11 YO, just then I realized how Yokai Watch is more easily to pick up by him than pokemon games. He still played AS that I gave to him, but he cleared the AS game data right after main story, and have no interest to collect more pokemon. I just checked his pokemon and he even not filled 1 box on the PC T.T.

Contrary, he keep asked me to check on google for him when he can get the Yokai on YW. How he can finish all the quest, etc. He even can't understand much english, but saw how he can really enjoy the game, make me understand what actually GF is threatened by YW.

He said pokemon's design is boring while Yokai Watch's design is funny. And while Pokemon main protagonist never shown emotions, Yokai Watch's characthers are funny to watch.

 

[ShadOBabe]

He said pokemon's design is boring while Yokai Watch's design is funny. And while Pokemon main protagonist never shown emotions, Yokai Watch's characthers are funny to watch.

Well you do have to use a bit more of your own emotions and imagination in Pokemon.
You're playing yourself after all. But some kids wouldn't like that I guess.

 

[TouyaShiro]

Cut down or merge the similar items, moves, abilities, etc.

I need to ask. What examples are there of this? I want to know just so I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

The word "simplicity" can mean virtually anything depending on the context, but most people have been behaving as if they're going to return to the clunky, archaic system of Gen 1, where there were no genders or breeding, no Abilities, no hold items, no EV's or IV's, and all types were strictly Physical or Special. Now I will admit that in more recent years, the battle system has gotten far too convoluted and has become a strategic nightmare (at least to me it has) though I don't think the system should be completely stripped back to how it was in Gen 1. I will agree that they could make breeding and EV/IV training far more simple since those are anymore a chore to do. In fact, the inclusion of Amie and Super Training in Gen 6 has actually made EV/IV trainin

My biggest fear, however, is that they'll make it more like a mobile game and have virtually no story, no memorable characters, and extremely linear gameplay. In order to have a good game, you need to have a balance of story and gameplay. One wrong move, and they could lose a large portion of their customers.

A youtuber of my nationality who lives in Japan (known as Velberan) said in one of his videos that Youkai Watch continues smothering Pokémon franchise in Japan.

He has a 11 year old son, and also reported in one of his videos that his son played ORAS for approximately one week, beat the league, catch the legendarys and then dropped the game (he had also completed the Pokédex previously in XY). According to his son the competitive Pokémon is very boring, because it requires hours of grinding. And I think most kids think so.

On the other hand, he reported that his son took months until dropped Youkai Watch.

I believe it is this simplicity that the game should return, I think somehow it will be even easier to create competitive Pokémon with the right Nature/IVs/Abillity, without spending the time that players spend today with "grinding".

I also didn't understand how Yokai Watch is more appealing than Pokemon game, even after I picked up the game myself. It's fun and 'simple' game to past the time, with basic concepts 'Catch Them All', but I left it after I finish the main story.

But when I give the game to my little brother, 11 YO, just then I realized how Yokai Watch is more easily to pick up by him than pokemon games. He still played AS that I gave to him, but he cleared the AS game data right after main story, and have no interest to collect more pokemon. I just checked his pokemon and he even not filled 1 box on the PC T.T.

Contrary, he keep asked me to check on google for him when he can get the Yokai on YW. How he can finish all the quest, etc. He even can't understand much english, but saw how he can really enjoy the game, make me understand what actually GF is threatened by YW.

He said pokemon's design is boring while Yokai Watch's design is funny. And while Pokemon main protagonist never shown emotions, Yokai Watch's characthers are funny to watch.

The reason I believe Yo-Kai Watch is overtaking Pokemon in Japan is most likely because Pokemon has been sticking mainly to it's past and looking back on it's golden days rather than moving forward, and because the system of the Pokemon games has become rather complex and has made it harder for newer people to get into the franchise, along with the way both franchises are marketed. To put it simply, I think it's because the Pokemon franchise's practices and standards are quite dated and is still sticking to what was established all the way back in Gen 1 rather than try and update itself for the times, which can allow the Pokemon franchise to appeal to a broader audience.

I haven't played the Yo-Kai Watch games (at least not yet), but I have seen videos of it's gameplay, and I have watched episodes of it's anime, and I can definitely say that the Pokemon franchise could learn a lot from them, although I don't think Pokemon should become too similar to their franchise, but looking at all I have seen from YKW, I have noticed it has the same kind of appeal the early generations of Pokemon had, something which later generations seem to have lost, but Game Freak wants the franchise to return to.

Granted I could go on forever with "Pokemon vs. Yo-Kai Watch" comparisons, but then I'd be going far too off topic.

- I fear that he means more mono type pokemon
- maybe less overdesigned things?
- hmmm simple means more regular evolutions throug leveling up and by using stones?(moon and sun)
- maybe beast based starters like gen 1 and 2? without humanization?
- simple would be to solve more problems of past games in the new ones then to add new types and features.
-simple= use what was created in past 6 generations+new things like normally.
That means also we will get new moves , abilities, forms and megas.
But no complicated changes.

Now this is what I mean by how things should be simplified, which is fix the problems that older generations had rather than simply adding new features and leaving the older features left the way they are. The Physical/Special Split was a huge benifit for the franchise. What they could do is that they could make the grinding and team building more simple. I really like how in Gen 6 the EXP Share now applies to the whole team since you can easily level up all the Pokemon equally, plus there's the addition of Amie and Super Training to help with the process. Breeding is also a chore anymore since it's not easy

 

[CrystaI]

I need to ask. What examples are there of this? I want to know just so I can see where you're coming from.

If you can read Japanese, you can see it yourself in the original article. Though to be more accurate, that line about trimming those things were merely suggestions by many fans as mentioned by that article columnist, it is not direct comment from Ken Sugimori.

 

[The Outrage]

I think what people mean is nowadays when you want to play competitively, you have to figure out what IV's/EV's/nature/ability your Pokémon should have > breed Pokémon with good IV's+right ability+right nature > make sure they hold the right breeding items > cycle in circles for hours until you get a Pokémon with the right IV's+ability+nature > EV-train them > train them to level 100. And repeat that for the other 5 Pokés on your team.

In Gen I this all didn't exist yet, you could just catch your Pokémon and you're ready to battle other players.

The idea that Gen I didn't have an EV or IV system is a misconception. They had both--and the only reason people know about it now and complain they have to do it is because its become more accessible.

If you wanted a Pokemon with good IVs in Gen I, you'd have to catch a lot of Pokemon until you get a good one--and you'd better hope its in the lowest level possible to maximize Stat Experience. Oh, and you want to train that low-level Pokemon? Can't use EXP All, because Stat Experience isn't passed on by it so have fun switching back and forth. Need two Pokemon on your team with Body Slam? Hope you have a second version you're willing to play n-times over to get all the TMs you need.

Controlling the right ability and the right nature takes little to no effort in Gen VI, and while restricting the EV system to have a limit per stat has made strategies more complex, it comes with the benefit of ensuring that objectively weaker Pokemon (as measured by BST) can actually have some advantage over stronger ones depending on how the two are EV trained. If you can maximize all stats, then the only determining factor is which Pokemon has the highest base stats, not what stats a Pokemon is trained in. Items and abilities add extra layers of complexity, but with the benefit of making battles more interesting, and again, potentially giving weaker Pokemon an advantage depending on its ability and held-item.

Pokemon has had a competitive scene since Gen I--acting like it didn't just because you were unaware of it, doesn't mean that objectively, attaining a battle-ready team (that is, a Pokemon with optimized stats etc.) in Gen VI is much easier than attaining a battle-ready team in Gen I.

The perception of simplicity that Gen I offers come from an ignorance of the rich battle system its already had in place. While the battle system has gotten more complicated, over the last two generations, the conveniences to help control this system has caught up with the pace of increased complexity.

 

[Almonds]

I'd be happy with simple designs and/or less items. I'd also appreciate if the dungeons aren't too crazy-hard or draggy (again, the snowy route to Snowpoint comes to mind). As long as the storyline isn't the one getting 'simplified', I'm gonna be okay with any possible 'simplified' changes. Not that a 'complicated' story is necessarily good - but it would be nice if it had some depth. It doesn't have to be BW level. Nods to real life issues are always welcome. A main campaign that is simple but engaging would be cool. Like that one book you can't put down but read through chapter after chapter through the night excitedly.

 

[Esserise]

On the topic of simpler designs, I wonder if that could still have something to do with this. Magearna may have a very complicated, Gen VI-ish design, but that's the only example we have seen. And it's a standalone, but what I'm thinking of has more to do with design ethos. I know it has been a popular request in some circles for them to move away from they style of more "conceptual" evolution in Pokémon (that is, when there is clearly a theme rooted in the design right from the first stage, which maximizes when it reaches the third), and revert back to a more "natural" evolution (as in, for example, Pidgey, which just becomes a bigger and slightly-more-elaborate version of itself as a Pidgeot).

I love the designs from the more recent generations, but I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this if it did happen.

 

[Icy Wind]

Meh.......

As long as they don't try too hard to pander to gen 1 fanboys with Kanto references crammed everywhere in the game(*glares at x and y*), and the plotline won't be rigged with plotholes(*glares at x and y again*), and the post game won't be virtually non-existant(*glares at x and y.... again*) i'm fine with whatever "simplicity" we're getting.

 

[TouyaShiro]

If you can read Japanese, you can see it yourself in the original article. Though to be more accurate, that line about trimming those things were merely suggestions by many fans as mentioned by that article columnist, it is not direct comment from Ken Sugimori.

Unfortunately, I can't, but thanks anyway. I may look at it at some point, but if it's a cluster I just want one example each and then we'll be good.

 

[Dorothy]

Well one look at Magearna tells us that the line about Pokemon designs reverting to simplicity isn't happening. Magearna's design has more layers than an ogre and ogres have lots of layers. Like onions.

Then again, Magearna's a legendary, and those tend to have more complex designs than the average Pokemon.

 

[zoroarctic]

I don't see anything that warrants any concern.

Meh.......

As long as they don't try too hard to pander to gen 1 fanboys with Kanto references crammed everywhere in the game(*glares at x and y*).

This is something I've never understood. Every previous region is referenced in each new game. Why do people only complain about Kanto?

 

[Dorothy]

This is something I've never understood. Every previous region is referenced in each new game. Why do people only complain about Kanto?

Because Kanto, and the original 151 Pokemon, receive a disproportionate amount of publicity and spotlight from GF and Nintendo.

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

Meh.......

As long as they don't try too hard to pander to gen 1 fanboys with Kanto references craed everywhere in the game(*glares at x and y*), and the plotline won't be rigged with plotholes(*glares at x and y again*), and the post game won't be virtually non-existant(*glares at x and y.... again*) i'm fine with whatever "simplicity" we're getting.

Agreed wholeheartedly with this. We've come so far since Gen 1, so it would be a shame if we were to regress all the way back to that era and ignore virtually EVERY generation that's happened between then and now. I mean, if they were going to do that, they could just make Gen 1 remakes again, or reboot the franchise completely if that's the attitude they want to show towards the later generations.

My main problems with X/Y were exactly what you mentioned here. I mean, I don't mind references to previous generations, since it allows for more connection between each game in the franchise, but what does annoy me is when it's always Kanto and almost never any other region, which makes it seem like Game Freak isn't exactly happy with most of the later generations, although the mentions to Kanto were the least of my problems with the Gen 6 games (The plotline? Oh yes, that was a big problem I had with X/Y)

 

[zoroarctic]

Because Kanto, and the original 151 Pokemon, receive a disproportionate amount of publicity and spotlight from GF and Nintendo.

So? Isn't that normal?

Agreed wholeheartedly with this. We've come so far since Gen 1, so it would be a shame if we were to regress all the way back to that era and ignore virtually EVERY generation that's happened between then and now. I mean, if they were going to do that, they could just make Gen 1 remakes again, or reboot the franchise completely if that's the attitude they want to show towards the later generations.

This is something else I don't get. There is absolutely no indication that GF is even considering such a move. So why are so many people worried about it?

 

[Dorothy]

So? Isn't that normal?

It shouldn't be. Pokemon has a long and rich history to draw upon, and it's frustrating to a lot of fans that Gen I is the one that gets the lion's share of the attention.

 

[zoroarctic]

It shouldn't be. Pokemon has a long and rich history to draw upon, and it's frustrating to a lot of fans that Gen I is the one that gets the lion's share of the attention.

It's what started the franchise and likely the generation people are most familiar with. Naturally, it will get the most attention. Besides, the other generations are hardly being ignored.

 

[Dorothy]

It's what started the franchise and likely the generation people are most familiar with. Naturally, it will get the most attention. Besides, the other generations are hardly being ignored.

Of the three major Pokemon publicity spots in the last year - Pokemon Go, the Super Bowl commercial, and the Direct - only the Direct showcased Gens beyond I to any reasonable degree. The Go spot featured 0 Pokemon outside of Gen I, while the Super Bowl commercial featured a whopping one. Gens outside of I are being ignored in publicity and advertising, and it's getting irritating. I don't begrudge them utilizing nostalgia as a marketing tool, of course, but the degree to which Gens II-VI are being shut out is simply unfair.

 

[tyguy723]

I like a generation to be confident in itself and not rely on nostalgia to prove its worth, Gen 6 failed to impress me since it did the exact opposite XD

Someone mentioned it earlier and I'm too lazy to go back and quote, but the series needs to be more confident in moving forward and not relying on the past if it wants to maintain longevity for the younger generations. It is nice to look back and keep introducing the oldies to the new players, but if the new players can't be able to say the same for the generations they start at and only the older generation they keep seeing no matter what, what was the point of the other generations? No more nostalgia for the debut games of a generation, it's almost an eyesore to the series now in my opinion. Save that mushy touching the hearts of players stuff for the REMAKES of the generation.

 

[ShadOBabe]

Of the three major Pokemon publicity spots in the last year - Pokemon Go, the Super Bowl commercial, and the Direct - only the Direct showcased Gens beyond I to any reasonable degree. The Go spot featured 0 Pokemon outside of Gen I, while the Super Bowl commercial featured a whopping one. Gens outside of I are being ignored in publicity and advertising, and it's getting irritating. I don't begrudge them utilizing nostalgia as a marketing tool, of course, but the degree to which Gens II-VI are being shut out is simply unfair.

I don't think they are deliberately shutting them out.
It's just that the original 151 are ICONIC. Even people that don't give a flying flip about Pokemon know the original 151.
My MOM knows the original 151.

EDIT: And honestly, I feel the original 151 gets the shaft a lot in the games.
It just gets harder and harder to find a lot of the classics without doing some serious trading.