Now that the game's are closer...Thoughts on "Reverting to simplicity"?

[Dorothy]

I don't think they are deliberately shutting them out.
It's just that the original 151 are ICONIC. Even people that don't give a flying flip about Pokemon know the original 151.
My MOM knows the original 151.

If they're that iconic, then using them sparingly should have the same effect as plastering them all over everything, and that would also have the added effect of letting Pokemon outside of the original 151 who aren't Lucario to shine.

 

[ShadOBabe]

If they're that iconic, then using them sparingly should have the same effect as plastering them all over everything, and that would also have the added effect of letting Pokemon outside of the original 151 who aren't Lucario to shine.

I don't disagree. But I think what happens is that they use the original 151 for the generalized marketing.
But then when you actually play the games, get the cards, or watch the anime, they're focused on whatever gen is going on at that time.

 

[Dorothy]

I don't disagree. But I think what happens is that they use the original 151 for the generalized marketing.
But then when you actually play the games, get the cards, or watch the anime, they're focused on whatever gen is going on at that time.

I can't be confident in that when Gen VI felt so unfocused on itself. There were too few new Pokemon, and too much focus placed on Mega Evolutions of older Pokemon - usually Gen I ones.

 

[ShadOBabe]

I can't be confident in that when Gen VI felt so unfocused on itself. There were too few new Pokemon, and too much focus placed on Mega Evolutions of older Pokemon - usually Gen I ones.

See I LOVED gen 6. I have never had so much love for a Pokemon game since I was a little girl playing Crystal Version. Gen 1 and 2 are a huge part of my childhood, but Generation 6 has the incredible feat of being the only pokemon game that ever made me CRY.

 

[Almonds]

It's what started the franchise and likely the generation people are most familiar with. Naturally, it will get the most attention. Besides, the other generations are hardly being ignored.

Except that with 20 years in the franchise, the teenagers and children these days are likely to be familiar with the more recent generations, not Kanto stuff. The people who are most familiar with generation 1 are the adults now - people in their 20s, 30s, 40s - who, mostly grew out of the games at some point; and the ones who stayed with the franchise are less in numbers compared to the kids. Also, the ones who stayed witnessed the growth of pokemon and all the different stuff GameFreak had to offer - it would be rather disappointing if GameFreak kept doing nothing but appealing to nostalgia because the adults who stayed with pokemon know there's much more than just Kanto. Reverting to simplicity should be something else other than triggering nostalgia because personally, they've been milking the nostalgia keyword for the last few years and it's starting to get stale.

 

[Bolt Strike]

As long as it's simplicity in terms of the moves, abilities, etc, I'd be fine with more simplicity, that would actually be a good thing to trim down. Other than that, simplicity is the last thing I want to see because the games have been getting simpler and simpler already. In fact, I think we need to see less simplicity in general.

 

[jitzul]

The fact that this quote is in regards to gen 7 which is coming out on the 20th anniversary makes me extremely fearful that gen 7 will go down the same path gen 6 went down. And as someone who hated gen 6 this is very not good for me.

 

[mel123]

Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon: the simplicity has already been heralded.

I mean, really? Out of all the possibilities for game titles and they choose "Sun" and "Moon." Surely Black, White, and X, Y, are basic concepts, too, but at least they rejuvenated the succession Diamond, Pearl, and Black, White, respectively. Sun and Moon are probably among the lowest of game titles I ever thought of, along with Light, Dark, Dawn, Dusk, Plus, Minus ... they were kinda expected, so I think Game Freak would try to surprise me. Why not something like Pokemon _ (insert region name)? I think it'd be more interesting to have something paradigm-shifting like this.

Also, related but a different issue, it seems that the new Pokemon Centres are smaller and more basic. We only see concept arts here, but they could be reflective of the final Pokemon Centres. Also, I actually think that the simplicity has already started ... only at a different level. The "wave" of old Pokemon in Pokemon X, Y, could be symbolic of a kind of Pokecelebration, where old Pokemon, old customs / regions, are valorized to celebrate the condition that is Pokemon. I noticed a lot of global themes in X, Y, so I think Game Freak might be playing with simplicity in that respect too.

Simplicity in terms of game titles, big themes, and simplicity in the sense of "recycling" old Pokemon. I love new Pokemon, and I fear that they yield to fans who scream "No more Pokemon -- 700 is enough." But it does seem that Game Freak is trying to "work with" what they've got. Again, the Horsea, Staryu, etc. figures on the "water palace" concept art ... they could be filler, but they could also be a nod to Pokemon, how it's "wrapping up" its creations. This shouldn't bar the creation of more Pokemon! It just seems that Game Freak is trying to tie things together, instead of separating each region neatly, categorically.

I know some people mentioned the figuring of Solrock / Lunatone in the new games ... someone even mentioned having them, or their (new) mega evolutions, be the mascots. I think that'd be great! Why must the mascots be legendaries? The tired old wheel of Dragon-type legendaries has run its course, I think. I think Game Freak is "reverting back" to simplicity in that sense ... they're trying to consolidate years of work by working with what they've got, tweaking already set-in-stone Pokemon. Again, this shouldn't bar the inclusion of new Pokemon. It's about regulation, balance, I think.

 

[Dorothy]

Why must the mascots be legendaries? The tired old wheel of Dragon-type legendaries has run its course, I think. I think Game Freak is "reverting back" to simplicity in that sense ... they're trying to consolidate years of work by working with what they've got, tweaking already set-in-stone Pokemon.

We haven't had a Dragon-type version mascot since BW2.

 

[Master Cyrus]

I don't care about the pokemon designs being simplified but considering they're never going to beat Yokai watch when it comes to children they need to up the complexity and story to go after the older crowd.

I mean college kids were the largest demographic who bought XY overseas. They should make a game that college age children prefer instead of the kids who would rather play with yokais instead.

 

[Dorothy]

I mean college kids were the largest demographic who bought XY overseas. They should make a game that college age children prefer instead of the kids who would rather play with yokais instead.

.........Or, they could focus on broadening their appeal to their target demo of 20 years instead of irreversibly shifting gears because of a recent and possibly temporary trend.

 

[Cute Charm]

I mean, really? Out of all the possibilities for game titles and they choose "Sun" and "Moon." Surely Black, White, and X, Y, are basic concepts, too, but at least they rejuvenated the succession Diamond, Pearl, and Black, White, respectively. Sun and Moon are probably among the lowest of game titles I ever thought of, along with Light, Dark, Dawn, Dusk, Plus, Minus ... they were kinda expected, so I think Game Freak would try to surprise me. Why not something like Pokemon _ (insert region name)? I think it'd be more interesting to have something paradigm-shifting like this.

XY were the first games not named after colors but genes (because mega evolution and IV training coming to the forefront) and/or axis (because 3D). Sun and Moon are more...random objects. Even things that came before them that weren't specifically color based were still colors (Crystal = light blue, Diamond = clear/blue diamond, Pearl = pearl pink or a mother of pearl type gradient, platinum = platinum grey)

If anything the titles are moving away from the "simple" and "expected" because they're neither colors or as blatant as XY was. If anything naming a game Pokemon (insert region here) would sound like they ran out of ideas. Especially if they don't plan on making two different regions for a gen and keep the "same game, different pokemon and slightly different events" pattern. There would be no way of telling them apart.

I don't care about the pokemon designs being simplified but considering they're never going to beat Yokai watch when it comes to children they need to up the complexity and story to go after the older crowd.

I mean college kids were the largest demographic who bought XY overseas. They should make a game that college age children prefer instead of the kids who would rather play with yokais instead.

The problem is pokemon has become synonymous with kids over these past 19-20 years. If they suddenly start catering to the 17+ crowd the moral guardians who think pokemon is a just a kids thing aren't going to be very happy about the main games being rated T. Neither are the little kids that don't care about Yo-kai Watch that have super strict parents who actually look at video game ratings.

I mean even though Pokemon still remains E, they're still acknowledging (for the most part...and ignoring the TRU kids only free things.) that their biggest fans are of an older demographic. They've been doing it since gen III and that one commercial that actually showed old people in it and even more so now with the google maps ad, Go ad, and the Superbowl ad that had people that looked to be about 20-50+ in them.

 

[Bolt Strike]

.........Or, they could focus on broadening their appeal to their target demo of 20 years instead of irreversibly shifting gears because of a recent and possibly temporary trend.

Yeah, swapping target demographics won't do them any good, and in fact would probably make things worse since the young adult demographic is inevitably going to be smaller than the kid audience. It's better to simply design the game to appeal to any demographic instead, which they kind of already did anyway before the series took a turn towards casualization.

 

[godiego]

It's better to simply design the game to appeal to any demographic instead, which they kind of already did anyway before the series took a turn towards casualization.

series has always been casual m8

 

[Silverwynde]

The problem is pokemon has become synonymous with kids over these past 19-20 years. If they suddenly start catering to the 17+ crowd the moral guardians who think pokemon is a just a kids thing aren't going to be very happy about the main games being rated T. Neither are the little kids that don't care about Yo-kai Watch that have super strict parents who actually look at video game ratings.

They don't have to go that far. Just look at Transformers.

Transformers is thought of as a kids' franchise but the toys range from 3 step figures--meant for young children--all the way to the Generations line--meant for older teens and adults. No, the Generations toys aren't covered in robot gore but they are "classic" characters or they've been prominent in the IDW comic. They aren't exclusively Optimus Prime or Bumblebee; they are characters like Prowl and Pipes. GF could easily go that route: a decently simple storyline that is actually engaging then having something more complex--like a battling facility or something similar--in the postgame for the older fans. I'm sure that it can be done.

At least, I have hope it can be done.

 

[Shiny Shinx]

To be honest, I like the games just the way they are. Although one of the best things they could put in is a more in-depth TeachTV like they had in Firered and Leafgreen, that explain some of the mechanics in the game and stuff. Super Training started to introduce EV Training to everyone, and I really like that. So hopefully they just don't decide to revert it back.

I know it pains me to say this, but if they do decide to revert it back, then I'm not sure if I'd play Pokemon anymore.

 

[Cute Charm]

They don't have to go that far. Just look at Transformers.

Transformers is thought of as a kids' franchise but the toys range from 3 step figures--meant for young children--all the way to the Generations line--meant for older teens and adults. No, the Generations toys aren't covered in robot gore but they are "classic" characters or they've been prominent in the IDW comic. They aren't exclusively Optimus Prime or Bumblebee; they are characters like Prowl and Pipes. GF could easily go that route: a decently simple storyline that is actually engaging then having something more complex--like a battling facility or something similar--in the postgame for the older fans. I'm sure that it can be done.

At least, I have hope it can be done.

Pokemon and Transformers couldn't be anymore different though.

Transformers is a huge franchise made for one thing and one thing only: to sell toys. It's a lot older than Pokemon and not many kids care or know about it these days unless it's through watching the horrible movies they shouldn't be watching at that age or their parents (who are probably buying the kiddie transformers for them). The big money is coming in from the adults that collect the robots and grew up with it and the teenagers that are interested in old 80s stuff or (un)ironically liked the movies.

Pokemon on the other hand wasn't made for a specific purpose other than being a video game. They weren't expecting it to be the 90s craze that it became. But it happened, and everything pokemon flew off the shelves for the next 5 years without stopping. It might as well seemed like it was a toy mover franchise like Transformers, but it was still just a video game with adaptions and merchandise and it was never made with that purpose at it's core. Pokemon left a lasting impact due to the craze. Even people who don't know what pokemon is are still willingly buy pokemon stuff for their 5 year old kid/nephew/niece just because it's cute and non-violent.

Transformers relies of the nostalgia crowd to keep afloat while kids are still growing up with pokemon even if they don't have parents that grew up with it themselves. Maybe in another 20 years they'd expand past primary focusing on their main demographic for the games. But right now, it was made for kids and it will remain for kids until most people either stop buying stuff for kids or the kids stop eating it up.

They know there's a considerably large teenager and adult fanbase, but it's not like they're going to cater to them and end up losing the main demo in the process. After all, they rather remove the game corner then have the rating bumped up to T and keep the slots.

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

series has always been casual m8

Pretty much. I found the games to be way more casual back then than they are now in terms of being simple, fun games. ORAS just couldn't stop beating us over the head with the World Championships over at the Battle Resort. Wow, what I would give to just enjoy these games without knowing the mechanics behind them. THAT was simple. Yes, I know the IV/EV mechanics were always there. I just wish I never knew about them and I can go back to enjoying the games for what they were.

Still, I really do not get what they mean in terms of "simplicity." Mega Evolutions as a concept isn't going away. The IV/EV mechanics were always there, so they are obviously not going away. Breeding for competitive Pokemon has been made so easy that, for lack of a better term, a "caveman can do it." These games, from a gameplay standpoint, were never that difficult in terms of being overly complicated. If anything, X and Y were the easiest games in the series. I had a harder time playing Red since it goes as far as breaking the rules for what moves a Pokemon can learn. You also couldn't go back and have rematches against opponents. With that said, Red itself wasn't hardcore difficult, either.
The only thing I found to be more complicated as the series went on was the storyline as each generation became more and more story intensive. Oh, and more Pokemon means more work to fill in the Pokedex. That's as far as I can think of.

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

If they're that iconic, then using them sparingly should have the same effect as plastering them all over everything, and that would also have the added effect of letting Pokemon outside of the original 151 who aren't Lucario to shine.

I can't be confident in that when Gen VI felt so unfocused on itself. There were too few new Pokemon, and too much focus placed on Mega Evolutions of older Pokemon - usually Gen I ones.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I and countless others didn't even grow up with the first generation. I became a Pokemon fan towards the end of Gen 2 and most of my fondest early memories of the franchise are from Gen 3, and most of my favorite Pokemon are from Gen 4 and 5, and I get so annoyed when Game Freak focuses ONLY on the Gen 1 Pokemon and pretend that the later generations of the franchise never happened, with the exception of Lucario from Gen 4. Gen 6 has been one of my least favorite generations partially because of the over-focus on older Pokemon and Mega Evolutions (Gen 1 Pokemon especially) over newer Pokemon. What there needs to be is balance between old and new Pokemon, not focus strictly on older Pokemon like most of Gen 6 did, or focus only on newer Pokemon like Gen 5 did, but balance the old Pokemon with the newer Pokemon, and not just strictly the Gen 1 Pokemon because there ARE Pokemon fans who are adults that didn't grow up with the first generation and came in afterwards, so why just appeal to the nostalgic 90's kids when you can appeal to ALL Pokemon fans young and old.

Now I'm definitely not saying they should STOP making new Pokemon entirely, but what I am saying is that when it comes to focusing on older generations, they should use what they already have created from all 6 of the previous generations equally, rather than focus strictly on the very first generation when it comes to older Pokemon such as Pikachu and Charizard, but give attention to the later generation Pokemon as well rather than just have them be nothing but dex filler. There are other Pokemon in the later generations besides Lucario and whatever starters and legendaries there are; in fact, why not give some attention to Pokemon who were given basically little to no attention at all in their debut generation, like Gen 4's Floatzel or Gen 5's Mienshao... or heck, even Garbodor, after all, why put all those post Gen 1 Pokemon to waste? There are so many Pokemon to choose from, and that's one of the biggest reasons I love Pokemon so much is the creative creatures it has and how diverse they are, and if the franchise didn't continue making new Pokemon like how many Genwunners claim it should have, or it strictly did only animal-based Pokemon with no Pokemon based on plants or inanimate objects (like the aforementioned Garbodor), then the franchise would have ended long ago.

People can say that there's too many Pokemon, but I disagree, you can never have too many Pokemon, and I definitely don't think they should remove any Pokemon from the franchise permanently, as that would actually turn a lot of people off from the franchise. One thing I DO like about some of the more recent games is that we have larger regional Pokedexes, since the BW2 Unova dex and the Kalos dex were massive and contained, so one of every player's selections of favorites will always be present in the regional dex, and I think that's a good thing because it shows that they are utilizing all the different Pokemon they have made and aren't putting them to waste.

Pokemon Sun and Pokemon Moon: the simplicity has already been heralded.

I mean, really? Out of all the possibilities for game titles and they choose "Sun" and "Moon." Surely Black, White, and X, Y, are basic concepts, too, but at least they rejuvenated the succession Diamond, Pearl, and Black, White, respectively. Sun and Moon are probably among the lowest of game titles I ever thought of, along with Light, Dark, Dawn, Dusk, Plus, Minus ... they were kinda expected, so I think Game Freak would try to surprise me. Why not something like Pokemon _ (insert region name)? I think it'd be more interesting to have something paradigm-shifting like this.

Also, related but a different issue, it seems that the new Pokemon Centres are smaller and more basic. We only see concept arts here, but they could be reflective of the final Pokemon Centres. Also, I actually think that the simplicity has already started ... only at a different level. The "wave" of old Pokemon in Pokemon X, Y, could be symbolic of a kind of Pokecelebration, where old Pokemon, old customs / regions, are valorized to celebrate the condition that is Pokemon. I noticed a lot of global themes in X, Y, so I think Game Freak might be playing with simplicity in that respect too.

Simplicity in terms of game titles, big themes, and simplicity in the sense of "recycling" old Pokemon. I love new Pokemon, and I fear that they yield to fans who scream "No more Pokemon -- 700 is enough." But it does seem that Game Freak is trying to "work with" what they've got. Again, the Horsea, Staryu, etc. figures on the "water palace" concept art ... they could be filler, but they could also be a nod to Pokemon, how it's "wrapping up" its creations. This shouldn't bar the creation of more Pokemon! It just seems that Game Freak is trying to tie things together, instead of separating each region neatly, categorically.

I know some people mentioned the figuring of Solrock / Lunatone in the new games ... someone even mentioned having them, or their (new) mega evolutions, be the mascots. I think that'd be great! Why must the mascots be legendaries? The tired old wheel of Dragon-type legendaries has run its course, I think. I think Game Freak is "reverting back" to simplicity in that sense ... they're trying to consolidate years of work by working with what they've got, tweaking already set-in-stone Pokemon. Again, this shouldn't bar the inclusion of new Pokemon. It's about regulation, balance, I think.

This is what I am trying to imply, I don't think they should stop making new Pokemon entirely, although they shouldn't focus strictly on just the first generation, but balance all the generations equally and treat them with respect. And I do agree, why do the mascots ALWAYS have to be legendaries? Gen 1's box mascots weren't legendaries, and if they want to be more in line with that generation, why not do the same? It didn't help that in Gen 6, the box legendaries felt like they were just shoehorned in at the last minute and barely tied into the games plot. I'm not saying the game shouldn't have any legendaries at all, as that's very unlikely, but why not break tradition for once.

 

[ewormPL]

Simplifying doesn't mean regressing, guys, come on.

Going back to the convoluted Gen I EV system would be regress.
Simplifying would be something like removing EVs altogether and instead allowing us to put some of the level-up stat boosts into particular stats like many other RPGs out there do. No longer would we need to fight armies of Zubat to increase our Speed tens of levels later - we'd just level up and put the boosts in Speed. Of course every stat would have a limit to how much points could be put into it, just like they do now, but we could decide when we need which boosts the most.