Offical May Leaving or Staying Debate thread!

[anthonyn66]

a legendary pokemon catcher? lol

 

[FabuVinny]

Come to think of it, Super Contests don't have to be linked to the anime contests at all. Everyone focusses on the dancing and it isn't as if you can move smoothly from the format of Hoenn and Kanto to that.

Hikari looks like she will be linked to the legends rather than collecting objects, though.

 

[Kasumi]

It's kind of hard for me to see May putting her Pokemon to dance. Especially Blaziken (now that is supposedly confirmed that Combusken evolves).

 

[Habunake]

I wanna see Munchlax dressed up like a belly dancer though...tis my dream...

 

[Cybersai]

And Hikari won't?

You honestly believe the writers can do a good plot-centric anime? Hikari isn't competing in anything as far as we know, it is much harder to rely on a character who is just there to compete with the villains.

The lack of Contests would hurt the show, because they became such a prominent and well liked aspect of the series during AG. Without Contests, all you have is Ash's Gyms, which are going through the what, 5th cycle now? How dull.

Contests gave us this great secondary story arc to watch, and they differed from Gyms enough to be exciting. Here's hoping the writers don't throw the only thing that made AG a success away.

 

[BenRG]

Different skills = Different character

I wanna see Munchlax dressed up like a belly dancer though...tis my dream...

I believe that the appropriate response to that is: "MY EYES! MY EYES! OH THE HUMANITY!!!" :bawling:

If I am correct in saying that the Super Contests are radically different in nature from the Houen-style Pokémon Contests, then there is no reason to retain the character of May to compete in them. It is far more likely that they would have Ash carry out the gym battles and have Hikari specialise in Pokémon dancing ( Pokémon dancing? ) rather than have May learn a whole new set of skills and leave Hikari without a 'niche' to play in the travelling group.

Whilst I agree with Scott85 that this would be basically cloning the formula of the early part of AG, it could happen. After all, and let's be honest with ourselves here, the changes at the start of AG were probably the first time that The Powers That Be did anything radical to change the formula of the animé.

What would I like to see happen to May...? Maybe have her visit Misty in Cerulean City for a four-episode special where, along with Casey, they form a new "AshyGrrrls" group and enjoy a weekend on the town bemoaning Ash's lack of a romantic clue. :XD2:

 

[Habunake]

Believe it or not, May is the ONLY reason we watched AG.

Their was no point of it any other way.

 

[Cybersai]

I
If I am correct in saying that the Super Contests are radically different in nature from the Houen-style Pokémon Contests, then there is no reason to retain the character of May to compete in them. It is far more likely that they would have Ash carry out the gym battles and have Hikari specialise in Pokémon dancing ( Pokémon dancing? ) rather than have May learn a whole new set of skills and leave Hikari without a 'niche' to play in the travelling group.

Wrong, they're not radically different. All that's different is the appeals which would combine apparel and dancing.

A person who does Super Contests is a coordinator, who wins ribbons, who competes in a GF presumedly, and makes their Pokemon battle gracefully. This is May's role, not anyone elses.

And how is this different than Ash moving up from Gyms to Brains?

Whilst I agree with Scott85 that this would be basically cloning the formula of the early part of AG, it could happen. After all, and let's be honest with ourselves here, the changes at the start of AG were probably the first time that The Powers That Be did anything radical to change the formula of the animé.

They never rehashed a girl completely as a copy of an older character.

That's what you're saying Hikari will be. ANOTHER newbie girl struggling to be a coordinator. Do you know how boring that would be?

Then what, Hikari gets her own clones of Drew and Harley? Please.

Hikari being a coordinator simply doesn't work because it makes her far too much like May and she'll look like nothing more than a blatant clone.

 

[Kasumi]

May is not going to moan about Ash's lack of interest in romance. Since you know, she isn't interested at all in him?

 

[BenRG]

Just kidding!

May is not going to moan about Ash's lack of interest in romance. Since you know, she isn't interested at all in him?

Kasumi, I was kidding. Please note the laughing smiley that I left at the end of my previous post.

They never rehashed a girl completely as a copy of an older character.

Scott, I was talking rehashing concepts rather than characters.

Let's face it, Ash has been the same thing at the start of every region: a beginner trying to prove himself. Even when they have changed the details, the fundamentals of what Ash has been trying to do has never changed. To a certain extent, every game-based region has had the same meta-plot. Ash, who is somewhat naieve and 'lost', travels, catches Pokémon and gets eight gym badges to compete in the League, which he then fails to win.

Let's then apply this to my May/Hikari argument. You will recall that I am arguing that May will be replaced by Hikari (a) because the super contests will be different from the contests and (b) because Hikari is a character from D/P rather than a character from RSE.

Although I'm sure that the scriptwriters can create a different personality for the character the fundamental point of the character - to introduce new concepts unique to the new generation of games - will not have changed. So, yes, I expect that much of what Hikari does will be a clone of what May did and for the same reasons - to showcase unique aspects of the new games. Similarly, Ash will be performing his usual role as the eyes through which we see the new region.

 

[Cybersai]

So you're saying that D/P will be nothing more than a boring rehash of AG? That Hikari will be nothing more than a boring rehash of May?

I still don't see it. The writers aren't going to purposely ruin their own show, especially when AG pushed it in the right direction.

May played a prominent role in the last 191 episodes that the Japanese treat her like a co-star. Why would she go the way of the sidekicks of this show, especially when she has the D/P mascot in her roster and is the only logical person to promote the Super Contests?

Likewise, Hikari is only referenced with the legends on all her advertisements. It seems likely that she isn't a coordinator, which goes for my argument.

 

[BenRG]

Well... Perhaps it isn't that straightforward

So you're saying that D/P will be nothing more than a boring rehash of AG? That Hikari will be nothing more than a boring rehash of May?

Rehash, yes. Boring? Well, we'll see. That is in the hands of the scriptwriters.

I still don't see it. The writers aren't going to purposely ruin their own show, especially when AG pushed it in the right direction.

Now you are making the mistake of believing that The Powers That Be automatically view the success of May and AG in the same way as you do. Their analysis of their success could be very different.

To them, an equally valid interpretation might be this: The success of their stragegy with May in AG means that they can do the same thing again to promote the new games and once again 'revitalise' the show. However, to enjoy the fruits, they are going to have to reuse the whole formula, as they have with Ash, by having the promotional character start from scratch, just as Ash always has to do. And, of course, they can't use May in this role as she is an RSE character.

 

[Cybersai]

To them, an equally valid interpretation might be this: The success of their stragegy with May in AG means that they can do the same thing again to promote the new games and once again 'revitalise' the show.

You act as if Super Contests are a new quest, they aren't. They're just Contests with an upgrade. You don't need a new character to promote that. I'm sure the writers don't feel the need to throw away all the character development they've given to May over 191 episodes just to start all over again with Hikari doing the same thing.

The writers would be insulting their own hard work. The show needed to be revived because Johto sucked. AG has remained popular and well-written, so there's no need for a massive cast revamp.

However, to enjoy the fruits, they are going to have to reuse the whole formula, as they have with Ash, by having the promotional character start from scratch, just as Ash always has to do. And, of course, they can't use May in this role as she is an RSE character.

How do you know May hasn't become as much a promotional character since AG started? She's become a lot more than an, "RSE" character because she came back for Kanto and is plastered all over tons of merchandize in Japan.

If anything, using the, "She's an R/S character, thus she can't continue" is really nothing more than a flawed argument. If that were the case, Brock would have never been in AG. Unlike Ash, Brock isn't a promotional character, and he's only an RBY Gym leader.

The writers have treated Ash and May as co-stars, especially during BF. Every three or four episodes, there's another May-centric one. They never shyed away from glorifying her as much as possible, and they gave her a major role in Movie 9 and her own ending theme, both close to the start of D/P.

I very much doubt May was given Munchlax if she weren't going to be in D/P. Munchlax is treated as the mascot of the D/P games, and was called by GameFreak to be the "next pikachu" when it was first revealed way back in 2004. You would expect the main mascot of D/P to actually be IN the D/P series.

 

[paperfairy]

Wouldn't it be mother fucking hilarious if Hikari wasn't in the new season AT ALL - and they just stuck her on the poster because they can?

Of course, this won't happen, but....

 

[Cybersai]

One funny thing about Hikari is there's no indication that she's going to tag along with Ash.

Ash is most likely going to Shinou, but there's nothing telling us that the two will meet.

On all the promotions we still don't have the complete cast, and it is ALWAYS Hikari by herself. Just what are these writers planning?

 

[Rocketshipper]

I think I agree with Ben. In the D/P games Super contests are an upgrade from the R/S contests, but we don't know yet how they will be interpreted in the anime. The anime does have a tendency to change how things work between the games and anime; for example, they added the contest battles and did away with all the special rules for the Battle Frontier. It's possible that, in the anime, Super Contests could be different enough from regular contests that their won't be much overlap between the trainers who participate in them. It depends on how the anime writers present them.

I don't see how having May leave to do contests in Johto would be "destroying all her character development". She's not dieing, she'll keep training and growing stronger in a different region, and we'll probably see her again, in specials or cameo apperances, just like we see Tracey and Misty sometimes. Personally I think having her leave Ash and go off on her own to explore a new region would be a positive step in her development.

Now into the realm of personal opinion: I think evidence on the show is leaning a little more towards May leaving, but it's still up in the air. The two aspects I think point towards her possibly leaving are the things with Drew and this stuff about her battling too much like Ash. With Drew, the rivalry hasn't been resolved yet, and that, along with the contestshipping the writers seem to be promoting lately, might be enough to motivate May to go to Johto so that she can have another chance of battling him. Then there is the thing with May battling too much like Ash. Unless that thread gets resolved in the next episode(s) I think it's possible that May could conclude that the best way for her to stop imitating Ash and develop her own battling style would be to leave Ash and travel on her own.

 

[Kasumi]

Just what are these writers planning?

Their plan was simple: make the pokemon fandom speculate like there's no tomorrow in order to get better ratings.

 

[Habunake]

It's working.

 

[Cybersai]

I think I agree with Ben. In the D/P games Super contests are an upgrade from the R/S contests, but we don't know yet how they will be interpreted in the anime. The anime does have a tendency to change how things work between the games and anime; for example, they added the contest battles and did away with all the special rules for the Battle Frontier. It's possible that, in the anime, Super Contests could be different enough from regular contests that their won't be much overlap between the trainers who participate in them. It depends on how the anime writers present them.

The anime will present them the same as they are in the games but with the battle element. The only thing that's different is the appeals. The writers have never had two people work toward the same goal in the show, and it is highly unlikely they're having two coordinators as main characters. Super Contests are not a new quest, they're May's quest with an upgrade.

Hikari is repeatingly only shown with the legends. There is not one thing indicating she is a coordinator, and for good reason, the writers have something better for her than to make her into a blatant May clone.

I'm actually surprised people think this is going to happen. Do you honestly believe they're going to rehash the events of AG?

I don't see how having May leave to do contests in Johto would be "destroying all her character development". She's not dieing, she'll keep training and growing stronger in a different region, and we'll probably see her again, in specials or cameo apperances, just like we see Tracey and Misty sometimes. Personally I think having her leave Ash and go off on her own to explore a new region would be a positive step in her development.

The point is the writers would have wasted our time getting us involved in the Contest arc for no reason. It was an entire secondary story arc that pushed May in the limelight almost as much as Ash. May is NOT Misty/Tracey. She isn't a sidekick who did nothing but take up space. The writers billed May as the second most prominent character in Pokemon after Ash. Look at the BF episodes, and the show basically features Ash and May as co-stars.

There are no specials anymore, period. They don't make Hoso's anymore, so I wish people would stop suggesting a show be made that doesn't exist.

. With Drew, the rivalry hasn't been resolved yet, and that, along with the contestshipping the writers seem to be promoting lately, might be enough to motivate May to go to Johto so that she can have another chance of battling him.

Why do you think they left the rivalry unresolved? It is obviously to allow Drew to come back in the anime after Shinou. Having Saori AND Drew wipe the floor with May is a poor ending for her character. It shows she still has room to grow, and we'll most likely see it on screen.

Then there is the thing with May battling too much like Ash. Unless that thread gets resolved in the next episode(s) I think it's possible that May could conclude that the best way for her to stop imitating Ash and develop her own battling style would be to leave Ash and travel on her own.

That doesn't seem to be harming her in the newest Contest episode. May is making it to the final round flawlessly, so it seems like the whole, "she battles like Ash thing" was just an excuse as to why she lost so easily to Saori.

 

[Rocketshipper]

They rehashed Indigo with Johto, it' always possible they could do it again ^^ (maybe we've discovered the cycle; game league, filler league, game league rehash, then new game league, filler saga, new game league rehash. ^^) We'll have to wait for the NEXT game for something original, lol.

The anime will present them the same as they are in the games but with the battle element.

You don't know that. No one knows it yet. The writers could alter the Super Contests however they want.

The point is the writers would have wasted our time getting us involved in the Contest arc for no reason. It was an entire secondary story arc that pushed May in the limelight almost as much as Ash.

I agree with May being an important part of the anime and everything, just as you see her, but whether her leaving now would make the contest arcs pointless is I think a matter of opinion. Personally, I'm not dissapointed with how May has been written in Hoenn and the BF and would not feel cheated, story wise, if she left the main cast now to pursue contests on her own or to follow Drew. Beating Drew (even if the rivalry isn't finished yet) was a big step forward in her development, and I think now is an opening for her to leave, if the writers wish to use it, just as I think the writers had an opening to have Ash leave after he beat Gary (an opening they never used, of course). Even if she leaves now I don't feel that her storyline has been pointless at all.

There are no specials anymore, period. They don't make Hoso's anymore, so I wish people would stop suggesting a show be made that doesn't exist.

How exactly could you know this? Has their been some press release from the writers saying "we will never make another special episode for the rest of the series" or something? Just because there have been no Houso episodes or specials for awhile doesn't mean there will NEVER be anymore for the rest of the series. The creators could easily bring them back if it suits their whims.

Why do you think they left the rivalry unresolved?

So that May could have a motive for following him? ^^