Talking about difficulty and junk and how it varies on the player.Hello All. How goes things?
Its still is a great attempt for people that want something more which it did as others mentioned above.The problem: what does "higher difficulty" even mean?
How do you make Pokemon appropriately challenging? All Challenge Mode does is increase the level of the Gym Leaders and the Elite Four by 1-5. That's not really challenging for the most part if you're willing to invest a little extra time in level grinding. Totem Pokemon were more challenging and you could still theoretically make every single Totem Pokemon a joke by having a Malamar in your team.
Some people thought Ultra Necrozma was challenging. But Zoroark and Malamar laugh at Ultra Necro's face. Does having an effective strategy/gimmick mean those battles are inherently less challenging? I dunno, I just don't think there's an effective way to implement any sort of difficulty options that most people with a little extra time on their hands won't exploit in some fashion or manner.
Difficulty Modes likely won't work in Pokemon because there isn't a good (emphasis on this) way to make it work in such a way that it's appropriately challenging.
If the game is forcing you to grind for levels, then it's already more difficult. Couple that with a smarter trainer AI and that sounds like an appropriate way to implement difficulty to me- anything that makes me spend more time playing the game. Better than making it easy to breeze through so the game is over before you know it.The problem: what does "higher difficulty" even mean?
How do you make Pokemon appropriately challenging? All Challenge Mode does is increase the level of the Gym Leaders and the Elite Four by 1-5. That's not really challenging for the most part if you're willing to invest a little extra time in level grinding.
If the game is forcing you to grind for levels, then it's already more difficult. Couple that with a smarter trainer AI and that sounds like an appropriate way to implement difficulty to me- anything that makes me spend more time playing the game. Better than making it easy to breeze through so the game is over before you know it.
You know. Steel types should be super effective against Dragon types. I mean why not, they already resist them, plus in a sense the sword slays the dragon
I mean since steel already resist them, and dragons are still really powerful, Why not? Plus most dragons have Fire for coverage, so that at least helpsI think that would make Steel too powerful in all honest. Steel is already one of only two types that are super effective against Fairy, and Rock and Ice types are also already weak against the Steel type. Pokemon that are pure Steel type have increased resistance to several types on top of it all.
Well, but then you would not be talking about any inherent advantage, since you're ignoring my numerical advantage example. But let's use "your" example then, even if the player uses 4 of the best Pokémon, and prepare their team to counter that particular gym leader team, it's worth taking into consideration that:
[*]They still had to prepare the team for that specific challenge (looking for specific Pokémon, training them, etc.);
[*]That would not mean that the battle would not be challenging at all (it might not be).
[*]
But, personally speaking, a hard mode that makes the player having to prepare their teams for the gyms, and/or that make them having to do something other than just press A continuously in battles (like you had to think about a way to win the Chikorita vs Falkner's case), would be a good start to begin with, and satisfactory in my opinion. .
FIrstly, obviously, I know you're not "daft", and I only persisted at that point because it was the point that you've persisted in the previous answers. You've said several times that "there would be no challenge if my Pokémon had x levels over",
"there would be no challenge if npc y still uses a monotype team" etc. And I was reminding you that those statements aren't true.
I kind of see the point you're trying to make here, but yeah, I'm still leaning pretty strongly towards the "yes". And yeah, we can agree to disagree, then.
Just a note (you can add to this if you want to): They always do that. How you can also get Mareep before facing Falkner, Timburr before facing Lenora etc. It's a good decision regarding level design, I think. I kind of understand the point you're trying to make here: "They always put these Pokémon there so that players who wish to, can get through the gyms more easily. This is a staple of Pokémon games and the way they are built. And to make a proper hard mode, the way I see it, that would have to be restructured. " - Right? (I hope I'm not misreading your point).
As I said in the previous answer, I think that a scenario where the player has to do something other than just go to the gyms and press A continuously is already good to start with. But you are separating things in black and white only (or it's a very challenging battle where you are at a lot of disadvantage, or it's totally easy where you have total advantage), and ignoring the whole gray part of the spectrum.
Ok, as I said, I don't think the game needs to do both (up the monster and handicap the player) to do well in scaling up the difficulty. I think that just makes things harder (generally). But we can agree to disagree here if you feel like.
I really think it's. I'm talking about the game structure solely (revolves around grinding, turn-based combat system etc.) So let's just agree to disagree here if you feel like.
Again, I think you're just overestimating the situation, and separating things in black and white only. And again, I don't think Game Freak doesn't have the same flexibility as you say. I've given many examples to try and show you that, so I'll stop here so I don't get repetitive. Again we can agree to disagree if you feel like.
I'm considering what they're able to do, not only what they are used to. Even so, less of a challenge, is still a challenge though.
The problem I see with AI of the battles facilities is that they rely a lot on luck, isn't exactly what I had in mind.
As you yourself said, Natures can make a difference in some cases, so can items. In a hypothetical hard mode, if the gym leader uses a choice item, and you're stuck with an Amulet Coin, it can make a difference.
Wait, I said that "I don't think the game needs to do both (up the monster and debuff the player) to do well in scaling up the difficulty. I think that just makes things harder (generally)." With both you can make something hard even harder. But I meant that I don't believe you necessarily need both to generate a challenge. That's what I meant. I'm wasn't saying I'm necessarily against doing both or anything.
But we have already discussed this. Handicaps can also be surpassed, so seeing things the way you are doing, I don't see the difference. And of course, it depends on the buff.
That doesn't make sense. The very fact that the player has to prepare their team for that occasion should makes them feel it. For example, just because the player has the possibility of grind and overcome handicaps, doesn't mean that the handicaps aren't there or that they should not be there anymore.
No, because what Game Freak has done in the most recent games was to ignore a portion of the players (regarding difficulty).
"If it's not intended, then it wouldn't available as an option." I disagree. In various games there are available options to do things in a different way from the one that it was designed to be done. Regarding Pokémon games, you get totally random EVs in main game battles, it's totally hard to find a perfect IV wild Pokémon, and Stats Judge are a post-game thing only, among other limitations. You can transfer it from another game, you can get a perfect Pokémon and train it with correct EVs anyway, it's an available option (and I think it's a good thing to have that option), but clearly it is not how they intended it to be played. They are different things.
The initial question was about your concept of difficulty in video games (objectively speaking). You answered "handicaps", but don't you think there are very difficult games that don't make use of it (not only, but also of several other genres)? So, that would lead to how games are structured, and why the "problem" you pointed out happens in other similar games too. Like, I remember a speech from Miyamoto that talks about RPGs in general and that fits here:
"Interviewer: Lastly, what do you feel an RPG should be like?
Miyamoto: Let’s say you tie someone completely up – even their individual fingers – and then wait a while. Then, if you start to untie the ropes one by one, they’ll of course be happy. Anyone would. The method of sticking someone in an incredibly tight situation then untightening it little by little and then saying, “There! Aren’t you happy now?” becomes very boring as soon as it becomes evident. So, instead of that, my personal theme when making RPG-like games is, “What can I do?” I don’t think creating happiness comes from starting from a negative and returning to zero. It’s starting from zero and ending at one hundred, and I try to think of ways to allow that."
But it ended up going to a more personal side. You should not focus so much on my assumption. But okay, I understand you like handicaps. And it's true that HGSS difficulty rely too much on the level curve. So I can see why you didn't find it difficult personally.
Ok, I disagree, let's just agree to disagree.
It's okay, but that was what you were talking about at the beginning? Like, you even have said "...No matter how "smart" you make the AI, there's not much it can do if it's like 5-10 levels below your team. " And then now you're kind of changing the goal, and making of AI a big deal (see the previous quote)...But okay, let's just get over it.
I agree, we should not see things just as black and white, because they are not like that. I was just saying that if it was to see things the way you were looking at it, there would be no difference between them.
Like I said, if the player is using extremely specific Pokémon for each gym leader and each elite 4 member, it will cause them to have to train many at the same time, and some getting underleveled by consequently.
Rapidash can handle a Focus Sash? Or a Shuca Berry? If she holds a Petaya Berry and has some def investment that makes her survive you will be forced to switch, huh?
Gastrodon will not be able do much if others Pokémon have similar Rapidash-type movesets (which is just the point of my suggestion, better teams with better movesets).
Of course, you can say: "my Hippowdon takes the damage, survive, and knocks out Rapidash later...My Hippowdon holds a Rindo Berry..." etc. And we could stay here forever.
As I said, I don't think this specific example proves anything to either side, I only did it for fun. But if you want to know, even if you prepare yourself in every possible way, and if you win the battle, and personally find it to be easy, I think the fact that you had to do something other than just getting into the gym and pressing A continuously to be a positive thing regarding a hard mode.
Sorry, but honestly, that's how you sounded at the beginning. And even now, that you brought new points, I still respectfully disagree with you on the majority of them.
As said, I'm not discussing only what they are used to do, but also what they are able to. I find your preference for handicaps to be something personal and subjective, honestly. It doesn't mean it would not work without them, just that you would not like it?
Sure, I don't see why they can't use level scaling (and we seem to agree on this). Although, I don't see a problem at just incremental levels either.
I think it's enough. This is okay, but I think we didn't reach a consensus in anything. Feel free to add any final considerations if you feel like doing it.
Its still is a great attempt for people that want something more which it did as others mentioned above.
If the game is forcing you to grind for levels, then it's already more difficult. Couple that with a smarter trainer AI and that sounds like an appropriate way to implement difficulty to me- anything that makes me spend more time playing the game. Better than making it easy to breeze through so the game is over before you know it.
The argument about level grinding only came about because some people said that a difficulty setting option would be useless if you could grind and overlevel the NPC. What isn't true,
More walls of text :/
I mean since steel already resist them, and dragons are still really powerful, Why not? Plus most dragons have Fire for coverage, so that at least helps
Can’t wait for May to start just so we’ll have something of substance regarding SwSh.