Official Pokémon Sword and Shield speculation thread (Updated June 5th, 2019)

[Joker901]

These people should try to have some more self control.

While there are some stupid and aggressive reactions to this decision, I think people who feel disappointed by it have the right to be disappointed.
When I first saw the graphics with those low res textures I felt really disappointed even if people kept telling me that the graphics were good enough for a pokemon game or that graphics are not important in a game.
I'm personally ok with this decision, I myself would have cut half of the pokedex to have proper animations and graphics. But they told us they cut half of the pokemon to make good animations and make pokemon more expressive which is just clearly not true. They recycled animations from 6 years ago, most of the time pokemon barely move when they attack, wingull floats in the air even when It does not move, some animations feel really from a 15 years old game, some of the textures are still low res and old in style, some parts of the environment are pixelated, pokemon and people models appear from nowhere even if they are still, the game freezed for a second a couple of times during the threehouse...
I can understand the need to cut half of the pokemon to make a proper game. I can't stand them saying they had to cut half of the pokedex for what we saw till now. I truly can't.

 

[Boss1708]

While there are some stupid and aggressive reactions to this decision, I think people who feel disappointed by it have the right to be disappointed.
When I first saw the graphics with those low res textures I felt really disappointed even if people kept telling me that the graphics were good enough for a pokemon game or that graphics are not important in a game.
I'm personally ok with this decision, I myself would have cut half of the pokedex to have proper animations and graphics. But they told us they cut half of the pokemon to make good animations and make pokemon more expressive which is just clearly not true. They recycled animations from 6 years ago, most of the time pokemon barely move when they attack, wingull floats in the air even when It does not move, some animations feel really from a 15 years old game, some of the textures are still low res and old in style, some parts of the environment are pixelated, pokemon and people models appear from nowhere even if they are still, the game freezed for a second a couple of times during the threehouse...
I can understan the need to cut half of the pokemon to make a proper game. I can't stand them saying they had to cut half of the pokedex for what we saw till now. I truly can't.

Yeah. I'm not exactly enthusiastic about SwSh either, if you've noticed.

 

[BackSet]

Aren't the death threats and flame wars a bit extreme, though?

Heads up, I'm about to say the four dreaded words.

After all, It's just a game.

 

[William-Jdubz]

Do we have a list of leaks that are somewhat credible yet ?

Wasn’t there one that listed a few gym leaders ?

 

[BackSet]

If they ever bring back contests I hope we can customize costumes just like we customize our regular clothes.

 

[Zeosan]

I see that some people still have been using the same arguments so I’ll go ahead and repeat what some of us have been saying in 200+ pages of Dexit discussion.

Once again, we have games like Witcher 3 being ported into Switch where it have much more models like people pointed it out and they can’t use all the Pokémon in? Look at Ultra Sun/Moon where they have at least 900 different form of Pokémon all included in the games and Switch is much more powerful than 3DS.

Please stop making the excuses for the decisions that some Pokémon won’t make it into the game and please stop saying that Pokémon Home will be able to hold ALL the Pokemon in, some of you guys are missing the point. It’s about being able to use their beloved Pokémon in post-game art of Sword/Shield.

Also, another thing that many people have issues with was that it’s stated some Pokémon got cut off because they want “””better””” quality of the animations, graphics, etc but I think that it have been proven many times the Pokemon animations in battles and for being used in open-world aren’t really up to the par.

You know someday they're gonna have, like, 4500 Pokemon and then they really won't be able to have you transfer all of them and them y'all will complain anyways.

Ok I get the point you’re trying to make but 4500 is an exaggeration, frankly. None of us would be alive for a long time by the time we get to 4500 Pokémon and Pokémon franchise may have not existed anymore by that time.

 

[BackSet]

I see that some people still have been using the same arguments so I’ll go ahead and repeat what some of us have been saying in 200+ pages of Dexit discussion.

Once again, we have games like Witcher 3 being ported into Switch where it have much more models like people pointed it out and they can’t use all the Pokémon in? Look at Ultra Sun/Moon where they have at least 900 different form of Pokémon all included in the games and Switch is much more powerful than 3DS.

Please stop making the excuses for the decisions that some Pokémon won’t make it into the game and please stop saying that Pokémon Home will be able to hold ALL the Pokemon in, some of you guys are missing the point. It’s about being able to use their beloved Pokémon in post-game art of Sword/Shield.

Also, another thing that many people have issues with was that it’s stated some Pokémon got cut off because they want “””better””” quality of the animations, graphics, etc but I think that it have been proven many times the Pokemon animations in battles and for being used in open-world aren’t really up to the par.



Ok I get the point you’re trying to make but 4500 is an exaggeration, frankly. None of us would be alive for a long time by the time we get to 4500 Pokémon and Pokémon franchise may have not existed anymore by that time.

You'd complain from beyond the grave. OoooooOooooOooooooooOoooOoooOooooo.

 

[Oriden]

While there are a lot of things that make a pokemon game a pokemon game, GF seems to be open to the possibility of deleting the main one: catch them all. So I don't see why we should be forced to see the same minor things over and over again.
I mean, if for once, the starters are of a different type, if first route pokemon are no more bug, grass and normal, if the battle system becomes more dynamic, if instead of the League there's something else, we will survive, right?
If you can forget about the main purpose of a pokemon game you can also slightly change those minor things so people can have a different experience once in a while...just my opinion...

Bugs and rodents make the most sense as early pokemon and the starter type trio makes sense as your starter Pokémon. People are being born every day so inevitably new people are picking up a Pokémon game for the first time every time a new game comes out. It's selfish to ask that they swap it out for a less easy to understand type trio. I've been playing for years and I don't even know another trio off the top of my head because none of the other match ups are as obvious as fire/water/grass.

 

[SoaringDylan]

but I think that it have been proven many times the Pokemon animations in battles and for being used in open-world aren’t really up to the par.

It's to be expected that half a year before release a demo doesn't have all the finished graphics and bugs ironed out.

Speaking here as a game developer my self, graphics and polish are for the final stages of the game.

For a demo, it's already looking great imo.

 

[Silktree]

Just for the record, Masuda didn't promise that future games will fix Dexit, but rather said that "it is difficult to make all Pokémon appear in future works."

 

[The Haymaker]

I thought I'd bring up the Wingull example since I still people using it to talk about animation and graphics. It doesn't float, you can see it sway in the wind, and the reason it doesn't flap its wings is because of flavor. Read Wingull's Pokedex entries, like this one from Emerald.

"It makes its nest on a sheer cliff at the edge of the sea. It has trouble keeping its wings flapping in flight. Instead, it soars on updrafts."

I'm not saying there's not valid arguments against the physical appearance of the game, but just trying to make sure people are better informed, if possible. There also have been noticeable graphical updates since the first trailer, and there's a "gameplay footage isn't final" in the last one too, so they're probably still updating textures and polishing certain aspects of the graphics. They even added shadows to the ropes between wooden poles between the first and second trailer, so it's possible even small adjustments will be noticed.

Bugs and rodents make the most sense as early pokemon and the starter type trio makes sense as your starter Pokémon. People are being born every day so inevitably new people are picking up a Pokémon game for the first time every time a new game comes out. It's selfish to ask that they swap it out for a less easy to understand type trio. I've been playing for years and I don't even know another trio off the top of my head because none of the other match ups are as obvious as fire/water/grass.

Agreed. It's also tradition at this point.

The other big one most people think of first is Fighting/Dark/Psychic. There's a few other perfect triangles where each is strong against one and weak to the other, which are Fighting/Flying/Rock (my personal favorite), Fire/Steel/Rock, and Grass/Ground/Poison.

So, I'm assuming Corocoro Ichiban had no new information for us? That's disappointing.

 

[SoaringDylan]

Fire/Steel/Rock

Slightly off topic, but there's a whole slew of balancing that can become an issue with this one.

A lot of Pokémon early on tend to only have normal moves, which makes it hard to hit steel/rock types.
Making them clearly advantageous.

I ran into that issue while designing my own Pokémon Tabletop United (Pokémon d&d) adventure and using this exact triangle haha

 

[Juizel]

Bit late to the party and sharing an absolute minority opinion here but I'd be thrilled at the thought of gym leader rematches being "forced" onto me.

I've always kinda disliked how gym leaders were for the most part these NPC you see once in the game to beat them, then you can stop caring they even exist. I dislike gen 7, but the trial captains were handled kinda better in that regard imo.
So yeah, I'd love to run into gym leaders more often throughout the journey, have more interactions with them and even test my strength again before I can have a shot at beating the champion.

As long as it's well done and doesn't feel too tedious; and whoever is against this whole idea in its basics just because it'd hold them up from finishing the game...if they just want to rush through, maybe, just maybe gaming isn't exactly the best hobby for them. Personally I measure a game's worth in how many hours of enjoyable playtime it gave me.

 

[ParasectfulDreams]

So glad the refight thing isn't completely gone-- I take so long typing and rambling that by Spoiler 3 I was concerned it'd be too late ;u;
Warning, these are in spoiler tags for a reason. Should I call 4 text walls a text room? ;u;

Starting with my feelings about the idea.

Spoiler: Welcome to my TED Talk

Story wise, I think getting your badges stolen is actually a pretty cool concept, whether Leon is the bad guy trying to prevent a challenge (kinda like Rawk Hawk from Paper Mario TTYD), or his fans/Team Yell are just overzealous and do it without him knowing. I like the idea of someone actually, actively trying to prevent your goal. You spend the other games chasing your dreams and getting swept up in something bigger thanks to the bad guys. You save the world because it's the right thing to do, because you're in the position to do so. Yeah, you (or at least the player character themselves) are attached to the world you're in, the people, Pokemon, cities, etc. and would want to save them, but your main goal-- the reason you get your team and head out-- isn't to be the hero. It's to be the very best, like no one ever was.

None of the evil teams before gave a care about your Gym challenge. I mean, I guess N, but the main focus was on battling in general, and not specifically you-- closest thing I'd say would be snatching the title of Champion, but it wasn't to spite you, it was to further his own goals of peace (technically Ghetsis' goal of regional control, but that still wasn't just about you). Team Skull too, I suppose, but I don't think it really felt as... personal? when they messed with things, and they took a back seat to Aether eventually anyway. Every other team let you go about collecting badges in peace-- as in they don't directly interfere with your acquisition of victories in the league.

This time, every victory you have would be one against the bad guys. Assuming that they also go after other potential future-champions, you'd probably have instances of stopping them from tampering with your rival's journey, from other trainers, and maybe even an E4 member looking for a title-match (this last one could be the indicator that either Leon is the big bad, acting like a coward or nervous to fight, but either winning anyway or not battling for some other reason, or that, despite Team Yell's block of challengers to him, he is a dang good trainer and can beat people on his own merits). Stop them from sabotaging your rival? Victory over them. Get your fourth badge? Victory again. This would be a group that hates you, not for ruining their plans, not for catching a legendary they wanted, but for being yourself. For being the very best. For succeeding, even when they try to keep you down. And realizing you're about to officially become the best? To overtake Leon? If Leon's the big bad, he's probably scared-- he knows you could very well beat him. He's angry he couldn't stop you anyway he tried. And he refuses to give you the chance to beat him, pulls a Rawk Hawk, and says you took too long and therefore forfeited the match. If Leon's not the big bad, then Team Yell's leader (or just members if there isn't one) would be furious. How dare this random nobody come in here and take Leon's title? How dare they even challenge him, the greatest trainer of all time, like they could win? Except, maybe they could win. And Team Yell can't have that happen. They won't even give you the chance to challenge him.

And this time, the bad guys feel personal. They may not be out to destroy the world*, but they are out to destroy you (imagine one part where you're framed for something: where they try to ruin your reputation). You're not stopping them just because it's the right thing to do, or just because you're in a position to do so, but because they're personally attacking you. They're trying to sabotage your dream. They're against the very idea of you succeeding, of you proving that you really are the best. And after you prove time and time again that you're worthy of a challenge for the title of champion (stopping them repeatedly, stopping the legendaries, etc.) they realize that no amount of framing or big-scale sabotage is going to stop you from taking on Leon-- and winning. So they do the pettiest thing they can. They steal your badges. Can't beat Leon if you can't get in the door. And that really, really hurts.

Talking about the first problems I have with it.

Spoiler: TED Talk 2, Electric-Type Boogaloo

I love the idea in concept (in case that text wall wasn't evidence enough of that), but in execution? From what we've seen so far-- which, granted, isn't a whole ton story wise-- it seems illogical that the solution to the problem would be fight all the gym leaders again. Unless they destroy the ring, why wouldn't you just fight the thieves and take it back? If the ring is destroyed, then you'd think the Gym Leaders would just give you the badge again since you earned it, unless there was a rule or something stating you had to beat them in a fight for a badge even if you won it before, which could make sense; with the emphasis on the sponsorships, and the televised nature of the gyms in Galar, maybe it's "take all opportunities for more ratings". But if that's not the case, then friendly battle or not, it's pretty rude. Some folks just came by and tried to crush your hopes and dreams by stealing something you worked so hard at, and the gym leaders don't just give you that badge back? After all you've gone through, after going back to each individual gym, explaining what happened over and over, being so close to the final showdown between you and Leon, they still want a battle? A battle that, presumably, you can't skip, otherwise the whole thing would be fairly pointless aside from giving you a "look at how far you've come" moment. If I was a gym leader and someone who I thought had great potential came to me and told me they were about to face Leon in a Champion Title Match, but some jerks broke in and stole all their badges and they couldn't get in, I'd give them a badge, and maybe go with them just in case (I know that wouldn't happen, but still), to make sure that no one could claim it was fake or coerced.

If there was a rule that every individual badge must be obtained through battle regardless of whether or not it was earned before, I'm still pretty iffy on it. There was clear foul play involved, in a place that should be secure. If you made it to the Champion and beat the E4-- which also would be televised, no way they're not when the gyms are-- then every official in the League should know who you are and that you definitely had a complete badge ring. People shouldn't be able to break in and steal/break it, so that's on them for their poor security (I guess unless Leon is the bad guy? But I wouldn't think the E4 would stand for it unless they were in on it, which just seems like too much to me, but is possible). Again, if I were a gym leader, I think I'd at the very least try to persuade whatever officials are in charge that this person who challenged me should not be required to battle me again when something sketchy is going on. In fact, I'd probably be like "yeah, this trainer is popular and a match would get high ratings, but you know what would get even higher ratings? Battling this trainer when they're the champion." And a promise to come back and battle after beating Leon gets you the badge, and gives a story reason to rematch the leaders/why they have stronger teams in the post game. And that line of reasoning would actually work really well if Leon was the big bad and didn't have exhibition matches for fear of losing and breaking his streak.

The last of the issues.

Spoiler: TED Talk 3, Why Am I So Ramble-y?

Last bits I take issue with. The gameplay. Now, it's possible (likely?) the League setup is going to be different than past gens in some way, but I assume more in a "you stay in the arena and the E4 come out in succession and then the Champion" if anything. If they keep it close to the past gens, then there would probably be four separate arenas for the E4 (and one last one for the Champion) that you choose to do in any order-- or maybe just a set order since the matches are watched by crowds and people would probably want to see all the matches. But the one thing I don't think they would get rid of is the thing that sets the E4 apart from the rest of the challenges: you can't have a full party heal without items. Unless I'm mistaken (let me know if I am), every game has made you go through the E4 and the Champion immediately, with no leaving to heal up, with the exception of BW. But BW had a reason to let you heal up-- you were fighting Reshiram/Zekrom, then N with the legend you don't have, then Ghetsis, and when you rematched them you couldn't heal up before Alder. If they made you go through the E4 as well as those fights, you could very well run out of healing items and have to start from scratch. Every other challenge in the games (typically) let you back out and heal before the big battle (I'm almost certain I've left villain teams' bases before facing them before when I was desperately low on health/ Pokemon, and I know I've definitely done so in certain Gyms). It's the added challenge that really pushes you to the limit (especially if you run out of healing items or are doing an item-less run).

But putting this kind of thing between the E4 and the champion would take that away. Once again, the game would give you more than just 5 tough battles in a row-- it'd be all 8 gym leaders, and it'd be insane to go and fight them all one after the other without healing. Especially if it comes out of left field-- which it would to a player going in blind. Some people would like the challenge, but I know myself and others would be pretty fed up, especially if you planned to fight 30 Pokemon (6 each for the champion and E4) and wound up fighting 46 (if the leaders have 2 each) to 78 (if they have 6) instead. And I also assume you could go to each city in whatever order, so you could not only go to a Pokemon Center then, but you could also catch more Pokemon and level up pretty significantly (wild encounters in conjunction with the 8 Gym Leaders) between the E4 and the champion. Which, isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it leaves the question of why team Yell even exists when Leon's 5-10 levels higher than his closest competitors (as in, why would they bother sabotaging anyone, not why would they be fans). I know that the earlier leak said they were fans of Marnie (whoever she is), but the act of ambushing you and stealing your ring before Leon tells me that they're also probably fans of him. Doing this kind of negates the point of an E4, too; the gym leaders would be as strong as, if not stronger than, the E4 since their fight happens afterward. The boss rush idea is cool, but I always assumed that's what the E4 was: not bosses you've fought before, but more challenging ones before the final boss. Suddenly 4 of the strongest trainers in the Galar region are being thrown to the side-- in a region where the focus is on the strongest trainers-- as their battles get over shadowed by the gym leaders' and their gimmick of no rest between fights evaporates-- even if you can't heal between their individual fights, it's no longer a "fight through this gauntlet without healing and prove you can win at the end regardless", it's a "fight though this gauntlet of difficult trainers without healing, now fight this harder gauntlet of trainers that you can heal between". Which I think would just feel hollow, at least to me.

As someone pointed out before, putting this kind of thing in between the Champion and the E4 isolates them from each other and puts a bigger emphasis on the gym leaders than the E4. That's not necessarily a bad thing per say, if the gym leaders are developed characters/appear more than just once for their fight (which seems like it's possible given Nessa's cold attitude in the demo, like she's interacted with you and you made a bad first impression), but I think it might come at the cost of developing the E4 themselves. As mentioned in TED Talk 1 (sorry I ramble so much I need four spoilers ;o; ), the E4 members have the potential to show up outside of the League, and in ways that directly interact with the player (example given was helping them if team Yell tries to sabotage an exhibition match between them and Leon). The idea that they wouldn't be developed when the gym leaders are kinda bums me out, and leads to a similar issue I had with BW-- why doesn't the E4 step in to help you? Yeah, you just beat them, but they can go heal up real quick and join the fray anyway. They're a part of the top 5 strongest trainers in a given region, but in the face of injustice, they sit back and don't help? You needed the full ring to battle them, but suddenly none of them are willing to vouch for you when the final challenge appears?

What I'd change about it, and thoughts on the potential story over all.

Spoiler: Last one, I Promise ;o;

I'd say a better way than the 'leak' mentioned would be this:
Team Yell steals your badge ring at the end of Victory Road. They do this to prevent you from challenging the League at all, and so no one can actually let you in. At this point you either go around and recollect the badges, or (what I'd prefer) is you track down the folks who stole it and take 'em out, reclaiming your ring. It's the final blow to team Yell-- they've tried all they can to stop you from challenging Leon, and they've failed. The Gym Leader boss rush could be dropped, but it doesn't have to be. Instead of going to each of the gyms to re-fight them, there's "tiers" to the League. You battle four gym leaders (in succession) in the first round, the second four in the second round, and the E4 in the last round. You can heal between rounds but after facing the E4, you take on the champion like the other games-- no healing except your own items. If Leon isn't a bad guy, then he gracefully accepts your challenge and is thrilled that you made it this far (either just in general, or because he doesn't get many challengers with team Yell's interference). If he's a bad guy, he probably keeps up appearances for the camera, but you can tell he's unhappy, and maybe he pulls one more eleventh hour trick to try to win.


The * From TED Talk 1 ties into this part:
We don't know a whole lot about the story other than what we can gather from the official information released (not much), and the bits we've gotten from 'leaks' that are pretty credible. This 'leak' is, as others have said, not really particularly credible, really just piggybacking off of the others. But there are a few story bits that could be the case. "They may not be out to destroy the world" I wanted to add here that, given the last few generations' emphasis on having the legendary being directly involved in the story and entangled with the villainous team, I would not be surprised if that was the case this time. But given their motives (that we know of so far), it's likely that team Yell would be using the legendary to try to keep people from fighting Leon (maybe trying to give it to him to scare challengers away), or to destroy the competition entirely. The scene of the two legendaries looking around and fighting back-to-back against an unseen threat makes me think there's going to be some kind of evil (or just antagonistic, more likely) third legendary, and I doubt team Yell intends to put the region at risk. I know not every team in the past has intended to cause harm to the region necessarily, but the ruin of the regions is in some way involved-- barring Rocket (they're for the profit), you have Maxie and Archie who want to ruin part of the ecosystem, whether by expanding the land into the sea and destroying the habitats there, or vice versa; Cyrus wants to destroy the world and make a new one; Ghetsis wants to take over the region by ruining the relationship between people and Pokemon (in BW, at least, I haven't actually played BW2, but I've seen others play and I'm pretty sure he gets worse?); Lysandre wants to kill a ton of people to get what he wants. I think Lusamine and Guzma can also be placed into camp "not trying to destroy the region", but Lusamine still winds up almost doing it anyway. Team Yell, assuming the motives we've heard are their actual motives and there's no ulterior one lurking around, probably causes the third legendary to attack, but not because they wanted it to.

So when you go to fight Leon, either you taking out the last legend is what finally gets most of team Yell off your case (you saved the whole region, they should probably back off) except for the pettiest few who steals your badges, or Leon has a trick up his sleeve regarding that legendary. There's also the idea that Leon might not stay champion to consider, where there's an Alder situation and someone beats him before you can (Hop maybe, or someone with a legendary like in BW, or maybe Sonia, since they seem(?) to have had a rivalry at some point). There's just so much we don't know yet about the story-- we don't even know if team Yell is actually real, or the case of a leaker slipping in false information for whatever reason they do that for.

Why split it into 4 instead of 1 or 2? They all had slightly different topics, and I had just two like an hour ago, but I had a lot of thoughts that kept popping up and I'm a rambler, so I kept going. I also thought that it'd be easier to see 4 text walls than the one massive one. Sorry for any mistakes (grammar or otherwise).

TL;DR? Uhh, I like the idea of fighting gym leaders again before the champ, but I have many things that I take issue with given the info provided in the 'leak'. Some fixes and tweaks, though, I think it'd be a really neat addition to the games, and gives the potential for character development/showcasing we don't often get with the gym leaders.

Thanks to anyone who actually bothered with those, and an understanding nod to those who didn't. ;u;

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Bit late to the party and sharing an absolute minority opinion here but I'd be thrilled at the thought of gym leader rematches being "forced" onto me.

I've always kinda disliked how gym leaders were for the most part these NPC you see once in the game to beat them, then you can stop caring they even exist. I dislike gen 7, but the trial captains were handled kinda better in that regard imo.
So yeah, I'd love to run into gym leaders more often throughout the journey, have more interactions with them and even test my strength again before I can have a shot at beating the champion.

As long as it's well done and doesn't feel too tedious; and whoever is against this whole idea in its basics just because it'd hold them up from finishing the game...if they just want to rush through, maybe, just maybe gaming isn't exactly the best hobby for them. Personally I measure a game's worth in how many hours of enjoyable playtime it gave me.

I just think "right before the champion because a hyena made you lose your badges" is the most frustrating time an do reason to do that.

Just for the record, Masuda didn't promise that future games will fix Dexit, but rather said that "it is difficult to make all Pokémon appear in future works."

And he also said that it was going to be a policy going forward.

 

[Juizel]

So glad the refight thing isn't completely gone-- I take so long typing and rambling that by Spoiler 3 I was concerned it'd be too late ;u;
Warning, these are in spoiler tags for a reason. Should I call 4 text walls a text room? ;u;

Starting with my feelings about the idea.

Spoiler: Welcome to my TED Talk

Story wise, I think getting your badges stolen is actually a pretty cool concept, whether Leon is the bad guy trying to prevent a challenge (kinda like Rawk Hawk from Paper Mario TTYD), or his fans/Team Yell are just overzealous and do it without him knowing. I like the idea of someone actually, actively trying to prevent your goal. You spend the other games chasing your dreams and getting swept up in something bigger thanks to the bad guys. You save the world because it's the right thing to do, because you're in the position to do so. Yeah, you (or at least the player character themselves) are attached to the world you're in, the people, Pokemon, cities, etc. and would want to save them, but your main goal-- the reason you get your team and head out-- isn't to be the hero. It's to be the very best, like no one ever was.

None of the evil teams before gave a care about your Gym challenge. I mean, I guess N, but the main focus was on battling in general, and not specifically you-- closest thing I'd say would be snatching the title of Champion, but it wasn't to spite you, it was to further his own goals of peace (technically Ghetsis' goal of regional control, but that still wasn't just about you). Team Skull too, I suppose, but I don't think it really felt as... personal? when they messed with things, and they took a back seat to Aether eventually anyway. Every other team let you go about collecting badges in peace-- as in they don't directly interfere with your acquisition of victories in the league.

This time, every victory you have would be one against the bad guys. Assuming that they also go after other potential future-champions, you'd probably have instances of stopping them from tampering with your rival's journey, from other trainers, and maybe even an E4 member looking for a title-match (this last one could be the indicator that either Leon is the big bad, acting like a coward or nervous to fight, but either winning anyway or not battling for some other reason, or that, despite Team Yell's block of challengers to him, he is a dang good trainer and can beat people on his own merits). Stop them from sabotaging your rival? Victory over them. Get your fourth badge? Victory again. This would be a group that hates you, not for ruining their plans, not for catching a legendary they wanted, but for being yourself. For being the very best. For succeeding, even when they try to keep you down. And realizing you're about to officially become the best? To overtake Leon? If Leon's the big bad, he's probably scared-- he knows you could very well beat him. He's angry he couldn't stop you anyway he tried. And he refuses to give you the chance to beat him, pulls a Rawk Hawk, and says you took too long and therefore forfeited the match. If Leon's not the big bad, then Team Yell's leader (or just members if there isn't one) would be furious. How dare this random nobody come in here and take Leon's title? How dare they even challenge him, the greatest trainer of all time, like they could win? Except, maybe they could win. And Team Yell can't have that happen. They won't even give you the chance to challenge him.

And this time, the bad guys feel personal. They may not be out to destroy the world*, but they are out to destroy you (imagine one part where you're framed for something: where they try to ruin your reputation). You're not stopping them just because it's the right thing to do, or just because you're in a position to do so, but because they're personally attacking you. They're trying to sabotage your dream. They're against the very idea of you succeeding, of you proving that you really are the best. And after you prove time and time again that you're worthy of a challenge for the title of champion (stopping them repeatedly, stopping the legendaries, etc.) they realize that no amount of framing or big-scale sabotage is going to stop you from taking on Leon-- and winning. So they do the pettiest thing they can. They steal your badges. Can't beat Leon if you can't get in the door. And that really, really hurts.

Talking about the first problems I have with it.

Spoiler: TED Talk 2, Electric-Type Boogaloo

I love the idea in concept (in case that text wall wasn't evidence enough of that), but in execution? From what we've seen so far-- which, granted, isn't a whole ton story wise-- it seems illogical that the solution to the problem would be fight all the gym leaders again. Unless they destroy the ring, why wouldn't you just fight the thieves and take it back? If the ring is destroyed, then you'd think the Gym Leaders would just give you the badge again since you earned it, unless there was a rule or something stating you had to beat them in a fight for a badge even if you won it before, which could make sense; with the emphasis on the sponsorships, and the televised nature of the gyms in Galar, maybe it's "take all opportunities for more ratings". But if that's not the case, then friendly battle or not, it's pretty rude. Some folks just came by and tried to crush your hopes and dreams by stealing something you worked so hard at, and the gym leaders don't just give you that badge back? After all you've gone through, after going back to each individual gym, explaining what happened over and over, being so close to the final showdown between you and Leon, they still want a battle? A battle that, presumably, you can't skip, otherwise the whole thing would be fairly pointless aside from giving you a "look at how far you've come" moment. If I was a gym leader and someone who I thought had great potential came to me and told me they were about to face Leon in a Champion Title Match, but some jerks broke in and stole all their badges and they couldn't get in, I'd give them a badge, and maybe go with them just in case (I know that wouldn't happen, but still), to make sure that no one could claim it was fake or coerced.

If there was a rule that every individual badge must be obtained through battle regardless of whether or not it was earned before, I'm still pretty iffy on it. There was clear foul play involved, in a place that should be secure. If you made it to the Champion and beat the E4-- which also would be televised, no way they're not when the gyms are-- then every official in the League should know who you are and that you definitely had a complete badge ring. People shouldn't be able to break in and steal/break it, so that's on them for their poor security (I guess unless Leon is the bad guy? But I wouldn't think the E4 would stand for it unless they were in on it, which just seems like too much to me, but is possible). Again, if I were a gym leader, I think I'd at the very least try to persuade whatever officials are in charge that this person who challenged me should not be required to battle me again when something sketchy is going on. In fact, I'd probably be like "yeah, this trainer is popular and a match would get high ratings, but you know what would get even higher ratings? Battling this trainer when they're the champion." And a promise to come back and battle after beating Leon gets you the badge, and gives a story reason to rematch the leaders/why they have stronger teams in the post game. And that line of reasoning would actually work really well if Leon was the big bad and didn't have exhibition matches for fear of losing and breaking his streak.

The last of the issues.

Spoiler: TED Talk 3, Why Am I So Ramble-y?

Last bits I take issue with. The gameplay. Now, it's possible (likely?) the League setup is going to be different than past gens in some way, but I assume more in a "you stay in the arena and the E4 come out in succession and then the Champion" if anything. If they keep it close to the past gens, then there would probably be four separate arenas for the E4 (and one last one for the Champion) that you choose to do in any order-- or maybe just a set order since the matches are watched by crowds and people would probably want to see all the matches. But the one thing I don't think they would get rid of is the thing that sets the E4 apart from the rest of the challenges: you can't have a full party heal without items. Unless I'm mistaken (let me know if I am), every game has made you go through the E4 and the Champion immediately, with no leaving to heal up, with the exception of BW. But BW had a reason to let you heal up-- you were fighting Reshiram/Zekrom, then N with the legend you don't have, then Ghetsis, and when you rematched them you couldn't heal up before Alder. If they made you go through the E4 as well as those fights, you could very well run out of healing items and have to start from scratch. Every other challenge in the games (typically) let you back out and heal before the big battle (I'm almost certain I've left villain teams' bases before facing them before when I was desperately low on health/ Pokemon, and I know I've definitely done so in certain Gyms). It's the added challenge that really pushes you to the limit (especially if you run out of healing items or are doing an item-less run).

But putting this kind of thing between the E4 and the champion would take that away. Once again, the game would give you more than just 5 tough battles in a row-- it'd be all 8 gym leaders, and it'd be insane to go and fight them all one after the other without healing. Especially if it comes out of left field-- which it would to a player going in blind. Some people would like the challenge, but I know myself and others would be pretty fed up, especially if you planned to fight 30 Pokemon (6 each for the champion and E4) and wound up fighting 46 (if the leaders have 2 each) to 78 (if they have 6) instead. And I also assume you could go to each city in whatever order, so you could not only go to a Pokemon Center then, but you could also catch more Pokemon and level up pretty significantly (wild encounters in conjunction with the 8 Gym Leaders) between the E4 and the champion. Which, isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it leaves the question of why team Yell even exists when Leon's 5-10 levels higher than his closest competitors (as in, why would they bother sabotaging anyone, not why would they be fans). I know that the earlier leak said they were fans of Marnie (whoever she is), but the act of ambushing you and stealing your ring before Leon tells me that they're also probably fans of him. Doing this kind of negates the point of an E4, too; the gym leaders would be as strong as, if not stronger than, the E4 since their fight happens afterward. The boss rush idea is cool, but I always assumed that's what the E4 was: not bosses you've fought before, but more challenging ones before the final boss. Suddenly 4 of the strongest trainers in the Galar region are being thrown to the side-- in a region where the focus is on the strongest trainers-- as their battles get over shadowed by the gym leaders' and their gimmick of no rest between fights evaporates-- even if you can't heal between their individual fights, it's no longer a "fight through this gauntlet without healing and prove you can win at the end regardless", it's a "fight though this gauntlet of difficult trainers without healing, now fight this harder gauntlet of trainers that you can heal between". Which I think would just feel hollow, at least to me.

As someone pointed out before, putting this kind of thing in between the Champion and the E4 isolates them from each other and puts a bigger emphasis on the gym leaders than the E4. That's not necessarily a bad thing per say, if the gym leaders are developed characters/appear more than just once for their fight (which seems like it's possible given Nessa's cold attitude in the demo, like she's interacted with you and you made a bad first impression), but I think it might come at the cost of developing the E4 themselves. As mentioned in TED Talk 1 (sorry I ramble so much I need four spoilers ;o; ), the E4 members have the potential to show up outside of the League, and in ways that directly interact with the player (example given was helping them if team Yell tries to sabotage an exhibition match between them and Leon). The idea that they wouldn't be developed when the gym leaders are kinda bums me out, and leads to a similar issue I had with BW-- why doesn't the E4 step in to help you? Yeah, you just beat them, but they can go heal up real quick and join the fray anyway. They're a part of the top 5 strongest trainers in a given region, but in the face of injustice, they sit back and don't help? You needed the full ring to battle them, but suddenly none of them are willing to vouch for you when the final challenge appears?

What I'd change about it, and thoughts on the potential story over all.

Spoiler: Last one, I Promise ;o;

I'd say a better way than the 'leak' mentioned would be this:
Team Yell steals your badge ring at the end of Victory Road. They do this to prevent you from challenging the League at all, and so no one can actually let you in. At this point you either go around and recollect the badges, or (what I'd prefer) is you track down the folks who stole it and take 'em out, reclaiming your ring. It's the final blow to team Yell-- they've tried all they can to stop you from challenging Leon, and they've failed. The Gym Leader boss rush could be dropped, but it doesn't have to be. Instead of going to each of the gyms to re-fight them, there's "tiers" to the League. You battle four gym leaders (in succession) in the first round, the second four in the second round, and the E4 in the last round. You can heal between rounds but after facing the E4, you take on the champion like the other games-- no healing except your own items. If Leon isn't a bad guy, then he gracefully accepts your challenge and is thrilled that you made it this far (either just in general, or because he doesn't get many challengers with team Yell's interference). If he's a bad guy, he probably keeps up appearances for the camera, but you can tell he's unhappy, and maybe he pulls one more eleventh hour trick to try to win.


The * From TED Talk 1 ties into this part:
We don't know a whole lot about the story other than what we can gather from the official information released (not much), and the bits we've gotten from 'leaks' that are pretty credible. This 'leak' is, as others have said, not really particularly credible, really just piggybacking off of the others. But there are a few story bits that could be the case. "They may not be out to destroy the world" I wanted to add here that, given the last few generations' emphasis on having the legendary being directly involved in the story and entangled with the villainous team, I would not be surprised if that was the case this time. But given their motives (that we know of so far), it's likely that team Yell would be using the legendary to try to keep people from fighting Leon (maybe trying to give it to him to scare challengers away), or to destroy the competition entirely. The scene of the two legendaries looking around and fighting back-to-back against an unseen threat makes me think there's going to be some kind of evil (or just antagonistic, more likely) third legendary, and I doubt team Yell intends to put the region at risk. I know not every team in the past has intended to cause harm to the region necessarily, but the ruin of the regions is in some way involved-- barring Rocket (they're for the profit), you have Maxie and Archie who want to ruin part of the ecosystem, whether by expanding the land into the sea and destroying the habitats there, or vice versa; Cyrus wants to destroy the world and make a new one; Ghetsis wants to take over the region by ruining the relationship between people and Pokemon (in BW, at least, I haven't actually played BW2, but I've seen others play and I'm pretty sure he gets worse?); Lysandre wants to kill a ton of people to get what he wants. I think Lusamine and Guzma can also be placed into camp "not trying to destroy the region", but Lusamine still winds up almost doing it anyway. Team Yell, assuming the motives we've heard are their actual motives and there's no ulterior one lurking around, probably causes the third legendary to attack, but not because they wanted it to.

So when you go to fight Leon, either you taking out the last legend is what finally gets most of team Yell off your case (you saved the whole region, they should probably back off) except for the pettiest few who steals your badges, or Leon has a trick up his sleeve regarding that legendary. There's also the idea that Leon might not stay champion to consider, where there's an Alder situation and someone beats him before you can (Hop maybe, or someone with a legendary like in BW, or maybe Sonia, since they seem(?) to have had a rivalry at some point). There's just so much we don't know yet about the story-- we don't even know if team Yell is actually real, or the case of a leaker slipping in false information for whatever reason they do that for.

Why split it into 4 instead of 1 or 2? They all had slightly different topics, and I had just two like an hour ago, but I had a lot of thoughts that kept popping up and I'm a rambler, so I kept going. I also thought that it'd be easier to see 4 text walls than the one massive one. Sorry for any mistakes (grammar or otherwise).

TL;DR? Uhh, I like the idea of fighting gym leaders again before the champ, but I have many things that I take issue with given the info provided in the 'leak'. Some fixes and tweaks, though, I think it'd be a really neat addition to the games, and gives the potential for character development/showcasing we don't often get with the gym leaders.

Thanks to anyone who actually bothered with those, and an understanding nod to those who didn't. ;u;

I don't agree with every little detail but I absolutely love the amount of thought you put into your text room tbh. Is it fine if I shoot you a PM later for further discussion to not blow up this thread and end with a text house or mansion eventually?

I just think "right before the champion because a hyena made you lose your badges" is the most frustrating time an do reason to do that.

I can see how it's frustrating, honestly, but I really find that so ridiculous that it becomes funny. In a "me and my luck" kind of way, because who else would lose all their badges right before the champion but me?
And overall, really, I think the basic idea isn't that bad (although I'd prefer before the whole league, not just before the champion) and a lot depends on how the idea is executed. I just see myself really liking it because it gives gym leaders more spot light.
I'd also love the E4 members getting more appearances and having more of a part in the story, even if it was just for the post-game, of course.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I really find that so ridiculous that it becomes funny. In a "me and my luck" kind of way, because who else would lose all their badges right before the champion but me?

Personally, that just frustrates me even more because I've got abysmal enough luck that ruined extremely important things for me, and I'd rather that doesn’t happen again in a freaking video game. And it isn’t as if Pokémon doesn't have that kind of experiences. I've had rock slide flinch my Pokemon 5 times in a row and in the immediate next (double) battle flinch both my Pokemon for 4 turns straight.

I'll be up for execution in any other way, preferably post game, but not this, and surely it isn’t going to sit well with their target audience- children.
But will probably promote Switch sales as children break their switches in anger.

 

[ParasectfulDreams]

I don't agree with every little detail but I absolutely love the amount of thought you put into your text room tbh. Is it fine if I shoot you a PM later for further discussion to not blow up this thread and end with a text house or mansion eventually?


I can see how it's frustrating, honestly, but I really find that so ridiculous that it becomes funny. In a "me and my luck" kind of way, because who else would lose all their badges right before the champion but me?
And overall, really, I think the basic idea isn't that bad (although I'd prefer before the whole league, not just before the champion) and a lot depends on how the idea is executed. I just see myself really liking it because it gives gym leaders more spot light.
I'd also love the E4 members getting more appearances and having more of a part in the story, even if it was just for the post-game, of course.

Sure! This kind of discussion can probably make up a text city if we're not careful >u<

I think that, at the very least, some leaders will have more to them than just one fight, if not all. They spent a lot of time with the trial captains (at least comparatively speaking), and I think that since BW they've been trying to do that kind of thing. XY kind of dropped the ball, but with the captians in SMUSUM, and Lorelei showing up in LGPE before the E4 (even just for one small scene), I think they're definitely trying to make them more active in your adventure. Also the Nessa thing I mentioned, though that could just be the demo dialogue and could change by release.

 

[Juizel]

Personally, that just frustrates me even more because I've got abysmal enough luck that ruined extremely important things for me, and I'd rather that doesn’t happen again in a freaking video game. And it isn’t as if Pokémon doesn't have that kind of experiences. I've had rock slide flinch my Pokemon 5 times in a row and in the immediate next (double) battle flinch both my Pokemon for 4 turns straight.

I'll be up for execution in any other way, preferably post game, but not this, and surely it isn’t going to sit well with their target audience- children.
But will probably promote Switch sales as children break their switches in anger.

I can relate to this bad luck but I have a different approach where I just started laughing it off. I can understand that this approach isn't a generally working/acceptable one, though, so I feel you.

Don't let Nintendo know it'll promote Switch sales or it'll actually be a feature, you know

Sure! This kind of discussion can probably make up a text city if we're not careful >u<

I think that, at the very least, some leaders will have more to them than just one fight, if not all. They spent a lot of time with the trial captains (at least comparatively speaking), and I think that since BW they've been trying to do that kind of thing. XY kind of dropped the ball, but with the captians in SMUSUM, and Lorelei showing up in LGPE before the E4 (even just for one small scene), I think they're definitely trying to make them more active in your adventure. Also the Nessa thing I mentioned, though that could just be the demo dialogue and could change by release.

Animal Crossing: Text City confirmed

Really hope so because gym leaders get unique designs and everything just to be wasted on just appearing for a single fight in their gym. :c

 

[SoaringDylan]

Don't let Nintendo know it'll promote Switch sales or it'll actually be a feature, you know

Nah, Clearly the Switch Mini will be robust enough that kids can throw with it like a ball :')