• 4chan is an 18+ website, and as such we do not want to expose our underage users to that site.

    You may post screen shots and text from 4chan, but direct linking to the site or its archival sites is not allowed.

    Thanks.

  • All content from the former Roleplaying Games forum has been merged into the Writers' Workshop forum. You can find more information in this thread.

    We hope to see you roleplaying away soon!
  • Regarding Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra DLC Spoilers

    For users browsing this forum, be aware that you may stumble upon spoilers! Threads that have spoilered information will be tagged as such, but still do take caution.
    Spoiler Embargo will be in place one month from DLC release. This means it will lift on July 17th, 2020.

  • The World Beyond Restructure is now finished! Check out the update here!
  • The 2020 staff drive for Bulbagarden is now live! If you're interested in joining the Bulbagarden staff team (whether it be forums, social media, or more!) then you're encouraged to apply!
  • Hey everyone! The Writer's Workshop is hosting an exciting event, Trainers of Fanfiction! It's a community event focused around your characters!

Official Pre-Pokémon Sword & Pokémon Shield Speculation & Leaks thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Active Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2016
Messages
371
Reaction score
500
I think the idea that the fire starters are intentionally designed to fit the Chinese Zodiac is a stretch involving a series of coincidences and some mental gymnastics.

I mean, none of the members of the Cyndaqill line really correspond to rodents such as mice or rats. At best there may be some traits of shrews, and even then, that only really applies to its base stage. The evolved forms have a strong resemblance to badgers, weasels, and even bears to a small extent.

Charmander and its immediate evolution are inspired by mythical salamanders that lived in bonfires. Its final evolution seems to be a European style dragon ... its a rather loose interpretation but okay.

Fennekin is technically a fox but close enough for me.

Incineroar might look a little bit too humanoid (and has the feel of being an over-sized house cat, too) but at least you can point to the etymology of its various names, and its physical appearance as evidence that the Litten line are supposed to represent tigers.

Only Tepig and Chimchar really fit neatly. Even Torchic gets questionable once it evolves (roosters don't have humanoid bodies or claws on their wings last time I checked)
 
Last edited:
I LOVE DIGIMON
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
1,164
Reaction score
3,576
Cyndaquil is literally called the fire mouse pokemon. That's close enough to rat to be a loose interpretation. The evolutions though look to just be mustelids, but there's nothing in the zodiac theory that says all 3 have to be the animal/a similar animal. Charmander and Charmeleon don't appear to be dragons like Charizard does.
 
Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2015
Messages
1,064
Reaction score
2,396
I definitely believe the zodiac pattern. Seems like weird denial to say there isn't one at this point.

I really hope they keep the stealthy-bulky-feminine (or magic?) pattern because I really want that stealthy fire starter.


Edit: The zodiac theme seems slightly loose if it's true, with fennekin and cyndaquil. Meaning if true we could even get a sheep instead of a goat (which are considered very similar, can be interbred to make hybrids, and have skeletons often just labeled "sheep/goat" at archaeology digs), or a zebra instead of a horse. Perhaps even a pika rather than a rabbit, but pikas look pretty similar to mice so I'm not sure.
Which animals do you think that would be good fire starters and that would not fit in any way in the Chinese Zodiac? Apart from the ones I mentioned (tortoise, frog and bear).
 
I LOVE DIGIMON
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
1,164
Reaction score
3,576
Which animals do you think that would be good fire starters and that would not fit in any way in the Chinese Zodiac? Apart from the ones I mentioned (tortoise, frog and bear).
Ooo, good question. I'd love a bear as well, but I think something like a cacomistle would be nice. I think a sloth or bat as a fire starter would be pretty interesting as well.

But maybe a sloth would fit grass better, don't sloths sometimes have moss and such growing on them? Or they could have it like "the sloth fire starter moves so slow it collects ash in its fur from its volcanic environment"
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
8,332
Reaction score
10,079
Revive Honoguma and Kurusu, please. It's not like GF covered its existence very well, seeing how a) someone drew them first thing after Spaceworld and b) someone took a picture of Honoguma that he (she?) forgot until 2013. Then again, the rest of the Pokémon in the demo made it to the final game, so I guess they wanted us to forget they existed. Good thing someone kept the demo cartridge!
 
Here to ride the rumor train.
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
5,563
Reaction score
19,617
I thought we were suppose to get some sort of plush by the end of the month too that's related to the thing that's related to mewtwo. All in all, the next couple of weeks don't look so bad. Even if we don't get anything new, at least we'll be getting information of some sort.
Nah, apparently the Pokemon A plush in January isn't related to Mewtwo- Paul said that it could just be Meltan.

Revive Honoguma and Kurusu, please. It's not like GF covered its existence very well, seeing how a) someone drew them first thing after Spaceworld and b) someone took a picture of Honoguma that he (she?) forgot until 2013. Then again, the rest of the Pokémon in the demo made it to the final game, so I guess they wanted us to forget they existed. Good thing someone kept the demo cartridge!
XD I want the Tangela evo and pre-evo and baby Meowth too. Quite a few good pokemon in the demo that didn't make it.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,613
Reaction score
10,011
And then, the fire starters and the Chinese Zodiac (Sorry, Tech. I noticed you like/believe this theory.)...In my opinion, this pattern has already been broken with Fennekin. But keeping going...
(lol, that's fine, it's only speculation! It's not like either one of us could prove it for sure!)

I personally feel like one starter not counting because it's not close doesn't feel like a really strong argument when there are six other starters with clear connections. If it was a stretch with the others, it'd make sense to think another stretch would be too much, but every other connection is undeniable. (even Cyndaquil, who gets detailed studies on whether its design is rodent-like or not, has the reference to a mouse in its category) But it only takes one to break a pattern, so it feels like that's what it keeps coming back to in the end for everyone.

In addition, the Chinese zodiac is full of "high known" common animals, the kind that Game Freak likes to use to inspire the starters, for obvious reasons.
But so far, we only have two starters of the other types that connect to the Chinese zodiac. (Sceptile for the dragon, and Serperior for the snake) Choosing recognizable animals definitely makes sense, but it'd be really strange to somehow end up with 6/7 Fire-types matching the zodiac while only 2/14 of the others did, wouldn't it?

I also think the existence of Honoguma should have ended with this pattern, but people still think that Game Freak is following the Zodiac.
Honoguma was only in the alpha demo, though-it's not hard to imagine that the zodiac concept would have been added after it. (IIRC, it was imagined that the sequel would be the last Pokemon games)
I mean, none of the members of the Cyndaqill line really correspond to rodents such as mice or rats.
upload_2019-1-22_21-24-37.png
 
Young Battle Trainer
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
6,112
Reaction score
7,024
Cyndaquil is literally called the fire mouse pokemon. That's close enough to rat to be a loose interpretation. The evolutions though look to just be mustelids, but there's nothing in the zodiac theory that says all 3 have to be the animal/a similar animal. Charmander and Charmeleon don't appear to be dragons like Charizard does.
Cyndaquil and its evolutions are actually based on honey badgers, with additional influences from animals with quills such as porcupines and echidnas. Fennekin and its evolutions are another anomaly, as they are based on a fennec fox.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
4,209
Reaction score
7,130
Cyndaquil and its evolutions are actually based on honey badgers, with additional influences from animals with quills such as porcupines and echidnas. Fennekin and its evolutions are another anomaly, as they are based on a fennec fox.
I swear Cyndaquil is a mix of a shrew and porcupine....a mix if quite a bit of rodents actually. Heck I think it's japanese etymology literally is porcupine.
 
Young Battle Trainer
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
6,112
Reaction score
7,024
I swear Cyndaquil is a mix of a shrew and porcupine....a mix if quite a bit of rodents actually. Heck I think it's japanese etymology literally is porcupine.
It's Japanese name translates to "fire porcupine". It's a combination of porcupines and honey badgers, with its evolutions having an even greater basis on honey badgers.
 
Here to ride the rumor train.
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
5,563
Reaction score
19,617
Fingers still crossed for a fire starter that breaks the theory, because I am so so so sick of this discussion coming up...

But much as I hate defending it in any way, I do have to say that Charmander, Cyndaquil, and Honoguma can be essentially ignored in regards to the theory, because if it is legit, it certainly did not start with them and began sometime after. They weren't certain that Pokemon was going to be this long lasting of a franchise to have decided on the zodiac theme at that point- up until Gen 3, at least, they were too on egg shells that the series was going to die to have considered any such theme in the long term.
 
Young Battle Trainer
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
6,112
Reaction score
7,024
Fingers still crossed for a fire starter that breaks the theory, because I am so so so sick of this discussion coming up...

But much as I hate defending it in any way, I do have to say that Charmander, Cyndaquil, and Honoguma can be essentially ignored in regards to the theory, because if it is legit, it certainly did not start with them and began sometime after. They weren't certain that Pokemon was going to be this long lasting of a franchise to have decided on the zodiac theme at that point- up until Gen 3, at least, they were too on egg shells that the series was going to die to have considered any such theme in the long term.
Also, Fennekin is another anomaly, as it is based on a fennec fox.
 
Here to ride the rumor train.
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
5,563
Reaction score
19,617
It's Japanese name translates to "fire porcupine". It's a combination of porcupines and honey badgers, with its evolutions having an even greater basis on honey badgers.
Just doublechecked it and Cyndaquil is indeed the "fire mouse" (hinezumi) in japanese, too.

Buuuut the japanese word for porcupine is harinezumi, which is just hari "quill" and nezumi "mouse" put together. So this is likely where the "mouse" in Cyndaquil's hinezumi comes from.
 
Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2015
Messages
1,064
Reaction score
2,396
But so far, we only have two starters of the other types that connect to the Chinese zodiac. (Sceptile for the dragon, and Serperior for the snake) Choosing recognizable animals definitely makes sense, but it'd be really strange to somehow end up with 6/7 Fire-types matching the zodiac while only 2/14 of the others did, wouldn't it?
That's true, but as I said, of all existing fire-type Pokémon, I can only see 3 concepts that could be starters and that would not fit in any way in the Chinese Zodiac (Salandit line, Slugma line and Torkoal/Turtonator. Maybe Litleo too (it's a feline tho). Anything else that could be a starter, would also fit the Chinese Zodiac in some way. Don't you think this can be just a coincidence, just like the starters can be? The Zodiac fit many species and families. Or was Game Freak also inspiring a majority part of the fire type dex in the Zodiac purposely?
 
Last edited:
Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
438
Reaction score
1,267
It's still a canid, though, so as much as it isn't specifically a dog, it's a close relation that I can't be arsed to argue with. =/
While the two animals are similar biologically, they are very different from a symbolic standpoint. In lore, dogs are considered honest and loyal whereas foxes are the exact opposite. However, I don't think whether or not the Zodiac patter is real matters. The animals of the Zodiac are still likely candidates either way. 5/7 ain't bad; or 4/5; for that matter.
 
Here to ride the rumor train.
Joined
Aug 9, 2016
Messages
5,563
Reaction score
19,617
While the two animals are similar biologically, they are very different from a symbolic standpoint. In lore, dogs are considered honest and loyal whereas foxes are the exact opposite. However, I don't think whether or not the Zodiac patter is real matters. The animals of the Zodiac are still likely candidates either way. 5/7 ain't bad; or 4/5; for that matter.
I don't see why symbolism would matter... you can represent an animal without expressing its lore-based characteristics. Not to mention that kitsune lore ranges from tricksters to benevolent guardians.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top