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Official Pre-Pokémon Sword & Pokémon Shield Speculation & Leaks thread

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You're missing my point. The point isn't that they deny the rumor specifically-it's that the timeline for development they gave completely contradicts the timeline Phillips claimed.




Phillip claims Stars was developed during SuMo's development, but Ohmori said USUM was started after the development of SuMo, and that it was developed alongside LGPE. (which he also refers to as the only Switch project)


This article is written after the Eurogamer article, so it's likely that's what it was referring to as "heavily rumored". This article also contradicts Eurogamer, which claimed Stars was the codename, not the unofficial term. I don't understand your inclusion of the second half-isn't Ohmori saying that there's no plans for USUM on Switch more evidence against Stars?

Besides, assuming USUM to be the result of Stars is a huge stretch. There's no mention of any of USUM's new features in Phillips' articles. The only new feature he actually does promise is new graphics, which are totally absent from USUM. So if Stars became USUM, why did it lose all of its new features as Stars and gain entirely new ones that Phillips never knew about, despite being the only person in the know about Stars?


You say later in the post that the point of moving it to the 3DS was to keep it popular-why appealing to Go fans in the hopes of selling a 3DS seem odd? (It's also not a split sequel, they're just alternate stories. Players can play just one out of any of the four Gen 7 games and still understand the story just fine)

Except they did-as Phillips himself puts it:



Except Let's Go was being developed at the same time as USUM.

So either LGPE came after Stars-in which case decisions on Stars shouldn't have been made based on LGPE-or LGPE was being worked at the same time as Stars, in which case there should have been plenty of time to make LGPE shape up in comparison.
Okay. You're assuming a lot of things here. What I'll say is I believe Phillips could have been incorrect. However, none of what you have posted contradicts Stars having existed. For example, you say none of the new graphics or features were implemented. However, if those graphics were designed at the same time as the switch ones, that would mean they likely weren't usable on 3DS. Really, I think the only difference would be some of the pixellated hand drawn lines you see on Citra HD renders being cleaned up, without much of a difference. Actually, rereading the rumors it specifically says:

Expect the Switch version of Sun and Moon to feature the same map - the same routes and cities - and the same art style, although be built using separate, higher-resolution assets.
So this:

The only new feature he actually does promise is new graphics, which are totally absent from USUM.
is a disingenuous argument.

As for features, the only specific thing mentioned in the original Stars rumor was the potential for some new Pokemon... Which we got. We also did have new features, like Mantine surfing added.

Now, it is possible that Stars was developed concurrently and the idea for Ultra Sun and Moon came late into Sun and Moon's development. This is because the idea for them could have evolved from the Stars when they switched from 3DS to Switch. I included Ohmori's comments, because he specifically says, "There are [currently] no plans for that in particular." This is not a denial that they never had plans. You are treating Ultra and Stars as the same thing when they are very careful about their wording. You see this a lot in press.

Also you keep saying Ohmori is referring to LGPE when talking about the switch game, yet the only one we knew about at the time was the one announced at E3 2017. One we now know is Pokemon 2019:

"The next introduction to its popular core RPG series, which was teased last year at E3, will arrive in late 2019 on Nintendo Switch for the first time," The Pokémon Company said in a statement.
So we don't know the time frame on LGPE.

And yes, Pokemon boosted the 3DS lifespan more than those other games, with Monster Hunter Stories selling the best at only 650,000 copies. Pokemon Ultra Sun and Moon sold over 10 times that. I still find them saying they developed it with new GO fans in mind terribly confusing. You're right that you can play any version of them, but that they're called Ultra and are split titles is off-putting to even longterm fans.

The thing is, I don't really care. I shouldn't have used an absolute for a rumor, but I was just using it for a reference to a theory of mine I thought was fun. What you've provided doesn't contradict anything Phillips said if you read what is said. It even sometimes actively works against your thoughts, like the new Pokemon being introduced mid gen. What we have is this:

Phillips says Sun and Moon were developed concurrently with Stars for Switch. It will feature higher resolution assets and have new features including possibly new Pokemon.

Ohmori says Ultra for 3DS started late into the development of Sun and Moon. It has new features and new Pokemon.

None of this is contradictory.
 
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OKAY, theory time.

Since ORAS were affected by Gen VI and Zinnia brought up a second Hoenn, parallel to their own, its made me wonder about Gen VIII and the potential Sinnoh remakes. Last night, while playing through Platinum, I came across this book. I screencapped this from a youtube page and I think this is an emulator, unlike my game, but the text is the same:

Screenshot_20181024-203215_YouTube.jpg

Screenshot_20181024-203044_YouTube.jpg

Screenshot_20181024-203108_YouTube.jpg

Screenshot_20181024-203138_YouTube.jpg

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Screenshot_20181024-202808_YouTube.jpg

Screenshot_20181024-202836_YouTube.jpg

For some reason I always thought of Palkia as controlling matter and space, but this specifically mentions parallel dimensions. That really stuck out for me since Zinnia and RR really drive home the idea of parallel dimensions in Pokemon. Dialga is time. If we combine Parallel Dimensions with Time, I find the leak of the Spaceworld Pokemon Gold demo and the mention of Gorochu interesting. So I'm wondering if Gen 8 will have us visiting an alternate history Johto/Kanto. With Sinnoh's ties to Team Rocket's radio waves being the cause to all the new evolutions, there is certainly a historical precedent. There's also Giovanni on the loose and Ishihara stating these are the games we've been waiting for makes me think Kanto would be appropriate in Game Freak's head, with Johto being the lead to not make all the fans sick of Kanto groan too much. (I will groan, but I won't be surprised.) Although I would love for them to create a new region and have a parallel dimension plot of that new region be integrated into the story. Especially if it's some past and future mechanic. What would a parallel Sinnoh be, too? I want to see some drastic architecture or civilization changes.
 
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Actually, rereading the rumors it specifically says:

So this:

is a disingenuous argument.
I realize that referring to it as graphics rather than graphic quality is a mistake on my part, but it's still a fact that USUM doesn't have the HD graphics Phillips claimed were developed for a third version, nor does LGPE. And I'm bothered by you calling my argument "disingenuous". I wasn't faking anything, and I don't see how mixing up graphics with graphic quality comes off as intentionally deceptive. My point was still clearly referring to Phillips' claims about higher-resolution assets.

As for features, the only specific thing mentioned in the original Stars rumor was the potential for some new Pokemon... Which we got.
Not the most impressive guess, considering other fakes also guessed new Pokemon in USUM. (The second one even goes so far as to describe a new Ultra Beast as a "purple iron wasp (Steel/Poison)", which would be impressive if not for all the other obviously fake info in it.)
We also did have new features, like Mantine surfing added.
I never said we didn't get new features? The only thing I said about USUM's new features is that Phillips' total lack of knowledge about them seems suspicious when he was supposedly the only person getting information on Stars. Why didn't his sources know anything about the plans for USUM?
Also you keep saying Ohmori is referring to LGPE when talking about the switch game, yet the only one we knew about at the time was the one announced at E3 2017. One we now know is Pokemon 2019:

So we don't know the time frame on LGPE.
Yes, we do. Masuda said in the release that it had been in development for two years. Everything you need to know about Pokémon on Nintendo Switch in one place Two years prior to the May 2018 release date puts the start of development at May 2016, which is plenty of time prior to that article being written. Just because fans didn't know about it doesn't mean Ohmori didn't.

What we have is this:

Phillips says Sun and Moon were developed concurrently with Stars for Switch. It will feature higher resolution assets and have new features including possibly new Pokemon.

Ohmori says Ultra for 3DS started late into the development of Sun and Moon. It has new features and new Pokemon.

None of this is contradictory.
No, what we have is this:

Phillips says Stars was developed alongside Sun and Moon (which started development around 2013-Masuda says here it took "about three years"), was "well into development" at the time of writing (November 2016), and was still being developed even after SuMo's release. ("I'm told that GameFreak largely paused work on the Switch version a couple of months ago to polish Sun and Moon in time for their launch this month, but that work on Stars will now resume with the development of features not found in the 3DS versions.") Even if we imagine that Stars development totally stopped after the pause, the fact remains that Phillips is claiming that Stars for Switch was still the plan two months before SuMo's release.

Masuda says that LGPE started development around May 2016-still a good six months before SuMo was even released. Phillips says that Stars was paused only a couple of months before SuMo's release, and that Stars was the plan to get Pokemon on the Switch-meaning if we take both these timelines as fact, then that would mean Game Freak was developing LGPE and Stars and SuMo all at the same time.

Ohmori says that the concept for USUM came during the beta phase of SuMo. We don't know for sure when this occurred, but Wikipedia says beta phases typically happen two or three months before code release, which itself takes a few weeks before the final product is sent out. So that means that USUM would have been conceived of during the pause of Stars' development, if not during Stars itself. This could be possible, but Phillips said Stars was resuming development after the release of SuMo, and that the biggest factor in switching from a Switch port to a new 3DS game was seeing that the Switch was a success. The Switch was released March 2017, which would be some time after USUM was conceived of, given that it had to occur before SuMo's release in November 2016. This would mean that USUM was conceived at a time when there was no reason not to go through with Stars. So if we take both Phillips and Game Freak's words to be true, then that means that Game Freak was considering the possibility of USUM while working on LGPE, finishing up SuMo, and planning to return to work on Stars, a game which was already intended as the third version.
 
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So... do we have a new leak or something or is it just meltitan?
 
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Well, after reading Nob Ogasawara's translation rant, names like that are not that surprising. I mean, he was one of the people that tried to warn GF about Mr. Mime, the Rage Candy Bar and Splash, but they were ignored.

Also, we have a Pokémon named Bewear, you can't go lower than that.
 
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Well, after reading Nob Ogasawara's translation rant, names like that are not that surprising. I mean, he was one of the people that tried to warn GF about Mr. Mime, the Rage Candy Bar and Splash, but they were ignored.

Also, we have a Pokémon named Bewear, you can't go lower than that.
What's wrong with Bewear? I thought it was cute.

Though Melmetal's name sucks, I do like his design a lot. I would have preferred a better head but even from the silhouette I knew that wasn't happening
 
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Think of the kidz, they can only remember simple names like Melmetal.
 
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Watch Parallel Sinnoh be smaller so kids can't get lost. Because Game Freak. :p

I hope not. Sinnoh is so beautiful as it is. But I hope there's no foggy areas. Such a pointless and unnecessary HM.
They'll make follower Pokemon be leader Pokemon, hopping around seemingly randomly but on a path to the next plot point haha. The most cynical implementation, but good if you can turn it off!
 
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So Gear Grind with Iron Head's effect?
Didn't think of it that way. But still it's something new.

They'll make follower Pokemon be leader Pokemon, hopping around seemingly randomly but on a path to the next plot point haha. The most cynical implementation, but good if you can turn it off!
Lol. Definitely. But it would be cool to see us use our own Pokemon or just a powerful fan to blow the fog fog away if it is still in the remakes.

Getting back to the next games. Would people still see Poke Pelago implemented for boxed Pokemon? Maybe there can be an online hub where Pokemon of different trainers mingle and chat. And Pelago could be for offline.
 
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Well, after reading Nob Ogasawara's translation rant, names like that are not that surprising. I mean, he was one of the people that tried to warn GF about Mr. Mime, the Rage Candy Bar and Splash, but they were ignored.

Also, we have a Pokémon named Bewear, you can't go lower than that.
I don't think Bewear is bad- it's a clever combination of Beware, Bear, and probably Wear- because it's based on one of those mascot outfits.

The lamest name I can think of besides Melmetal (not even considering Gen 1) is Talonflame. I thought Talonflame was really bad, but Melmetal almost sounds worse.
 
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I realize that referring to it as graphics rather than graphic quality is a mistake on my part, but it's still a fact that USUM doesn't have the HD graphics Phillips claimed were developed for a third version, nor does LGPE. And I'm bothered by you calling my argument "disingenuous". I wasn't faking anything, and I don't see how mixing up graphics with graphic quality comes off as intentionally deceptive. My point was still clearly referring to Phillips' claims about higher-resolution assets.


Not the most impressive guess, considering other fakes also guessed new Pokemon in USUM. (The second one even goes so far as to describe a new Ultra Beast as a "purple iron wasp (Steel/Poison)", which would be impressive if not for all the other obviously fake info in it.)

I never said we didn't get new features? The only thing I said about USUM's new features is that Phillips' total lack of knowledge about them seems suspicious when he was supposedly the only person getting information on Stars. Why didn't his sources know anything about the plans for USUM?

Yes, we do. Masuda said in the release that it had been in development for two years. Everything you need to know about Pokémon on Nintendo Switch in one place Two years prior to the May 2018 release date puts the start of development at May 2016, which is plenty of time prior to that article being written. Just because fans didn't know about it doesn't mean Ohmori didn't.


No, what we have is this:

Phillips says Stars was developed alongside Sun and Moon (which started development around 2013-Masuda says here it took "about three years"), was "well into development" at the time of writing (November 2016), and was still being developed even after SuMo's release. ("I'm told that GameFreak largely paused work on the Switch version a couple of months ago to polish Sun and Moon in time for their launch this month, but that work on Stars will now resume with the development of features not found in the 3DS versions.") Even if we imagine that Stars development totally stopped after the pause, the fact remains that Phillips is claiming that Stars for Switch was still the plan two months before SuMo's release.

Masuda says that LGPE started development around May 2016-still a good six months before SuMo was even released. Phillips says that Stars was paused only a couple of months before SuMo's release, and that Stars was the plan to get Pokemon on the Switch-meaning if we take both these timelines as fact, then that would mean Game Freak was developing LGPE and Stars and SuMo all at the same time.

Ohmori says that the concept for USUM came during the beta phase of SuMo. We don't know for sure when this occurred, but Wikipedia says beta phases typically happen two or three months before code release, which itself takes a few weeks before the final product is sent out. So that means that USUM would have been conceived of during the pause of Stars' development, if not during Stars itself. This could be possible, but Phillips said Stars was resuming development after the release of SuMo, and that the biggest factor in switching from a Switch port to a new 3DS game was seeing that the Switch was a success. The Switch was released March 2017, which would be some time after USUM was conceived of, given that it had to occur before SuMo's release in November 2016. So if we take both Phillips and Game Freak's words to be true, then that means that Game Freak was considering the possibility of USUM while working on LGPE, finishing up SuMo, and planning to return to work on Stars, a game which was already intended as the third version.
So that means that USUM would have been conceived of during the pause of Stars' development, if not during Stars itself. This could be possible, but Phillips said Stars was resuming development after the release of SuMo
This is what I'm saying. Stars turned into Ultra Sun and Moon. They are different projects that share the same base. You keep asking "Where are the HD assets for 3DS?" But that makes no sense at all. That's why I'm calling it disingenuous. You can upscale the games beautifully except for some pixellated definition on top of the models. This is pixelated because it is drawn at the resolution of the 3DS. If you don't get what I'm saying, here is a video where it is very obvious in HD, but not on 3DS. That is because they are already using the HD assets, but they are not polished for a console release.


I'm not seeing in your link where Masuda says "two years prior", but I'll take your word. That still doesn't really point to LGPE being the game that's referred to by Ohmori. Why would the team working on Ultra to gain experience then not go to the game "in the style of Pokémon X and Y or Sun and Moon"? It makes no sense. The earlier articles you mentioned even talk about the focus on mechanics, which really paid off. So why would they then go on a game that is trying to be as simple as possible? I understand the inclination and I'm not trying to attack you. It just seems like you're working off the assumption that LGPE is the switch games, with 2019 being an afterthought. LGPE looks like half the team of XY could have worked on it whereas they tripled their workforce for the switch release. 300+ people did not make LGPE and there is no way they needed help once young staff finished USuMo. Just... Just look at it. That would be the most shocking and depressing statement to come from them. I know I'm being petty, but there's that clip of the new rival running and then stopping to rotate before continuing to run forward. It is so janky.


ANYWAY

You're correct about the switch games. I misunderstood the point he was making as he jumps in time really quickly. The exact quote was:

Speak to a number of people with knowledge of the Stars project and a picture emerges that there was no single reason why development on Switch's first proper Pokémon changed course. A couple of points stand out, however. First, a growing belief in Switch's success - which meant Nintendo would not need a new Zelda, Mario and a new mainline Pokémon game within the console's first eight months.
And then he theorizes on the 3DS being more in need of a flagship title as a secondary factor. Obviously it doesn't make sense for them to decide where the game goes based on performance and I was arguing based on the decision happening in 2016. Sorry about that.

Also, I know you mentioned him saying he was wrong about Zelda being a launch title, but he clarified later that Europe specifically was having problems and wanted the games to come out later, while Japan was undecided. He clarified that North America and Japan would be getting it at launch, while Europe was still unsure due to all the different languages needed. This was a little over a week before the actual announcement. As far as I've seen, he hasn't done that for Pokemon. This is their livelihood. It doesn't speak well if he is just sticking to something untrue and brings down the sites reputation as a whole.

But since I mentioned I was a little confused, I want to clarify: I never thought Ultra and Stars and LGPE were being worked on at the same time. Just that Stars became Ultra which would always have to be a new project as you can't just take a switch game and plop it onto 3DS. You have to work within the confines of the old hardware, which seems like what they were always doing based on the video I linked above. And for all we know Ultra could just be the idea of splitting them into two games. It would steal mean a new project with new goals, just one with a lot more development ready to work with.
 
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@TechSkylander1518 This might be weird, but if you want to respond, that's fine, but my head is killing me and I'd rather just drop the discussion. I doubt I'll ever bring it up again, either, as I wasn't using it to speculate on new games at all. I like that you source things and try and be thorough so you're cool all around and I appreciate talking like this. It's just thinking of even attempting to respond again while I'm sick is making my head hurt more, which is totally a self-inflicted wound haha. I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring you if I don't respond.
 
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This is what I'm saying. Stars turned into Ultra Sun and Moon. They are different projects that share the same base.
But that idea doesn't line up with Phillips' claim. He says that Stars was developed until two months before SuMo's release, and that at least one of the reasons for its cancellation was the Switch's financial success, meaning it couldn't have happened until after March 2017.
Stars turned into Ultra Sun and Moon. They are different projects that share the same base. You keep asking "Where are the HD assets for 3DS?" But that makes no sense at all.
I'm not asking where the assets are, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to spend time developing HD assets and then not use them. The fact that they're not used because the 3DS doesn't display HD graphics doesn't change the fact that Phillips is claiming Game Freak spent a good deal of time creating HD assets that ended up being unused.
But that makes no sense at all. That's why I'm calling it disingenuous.
(Disingenuous actually doesn't just mean that it doesn't make sense-it means that someone's pretending not to know something that they really do. I realize now you're not trying to imply that of me, but I just want to let you know!)
Also, I know you mentioned him saying he was wrong about Zelda being a launch title, but he clarified later that Europe specifically was having problems and wanted the games to come out later, while Japan was undecided. He clarified that North America and Japan would be getting it at launch, while Europe was still unsure due to all the different languages needed. This was a little over a week before the actual announcement. As far as I've seen, he hasn't done that for Pokemon. This is their livelihood. It doesn't speak well if he is just sticking to something untrue and brings down the sites reputation as a whole.
That's still only one of the four times Phillips was incorrect. One of those is a concrete example of Phillips being incorrect to a point that brings down the site's reputation: Phillips claimed that FF13VS was canned, and another Eurogamer writer reported that Square Enix publicly stated that this was a fake rumor. Phillips continued to claim Stars could be the first Pokemon Switch game even after USUM were announced. He even fell for a fake Nintendo account on Twitter. Sometimes, people make mistakes with their jobs. Doesn't mean he should lose his job or anything, just that errors are always a possibility.
It would steal mean a new project with new goals, just one with a lot more development ready to work with.
Except the only development reported for Stars was HD assets, which you yourself just said couldn't be used on the 3DS. Phillips mentions new Pokemon, but the only new Pokemon whose development we know of is the Poipole line-and we also know that it was designed for USUM, not for Stars.
@TechSkylander1518 This might be weird, but if you want to respond, that's fine, but my head is killing me and I'd rather just drop the discussion. I doubt I'll ever bring it up again, either, as I wasn't using it to speculate on new games at all. I like that you source things and try and be thorough so you're cool all around and I appreciate talking like this. It's just thinking of even attempting to respond again while I'm sick is making my head hurt more, which is totally a self-inflicted wound haha. I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring you if I don't respond.
That's fine!! (I put my stuff under a spoiler so I can feel like I finished it, but it doesn't have to be replied to, if that's okay? And I appreciate you taking the time to source and explain stuff, too!) I hope your headache gets better soon!!
 
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