Old Characters in Pocket Monster 2019

[prog rocker]

Dogasu also pointed out Hiroshi debuted way too late, only one episode before the battle, which also hurt any chances of getting people to actually care about the rivarly.
Btw I still don't understand why Shigeru was eliminated from the league so fast. He could be the one to defeat Satoshi, at least they'd have at least a battle in the entire Kanto portion.

I kinda feel there might have been some executive meddling back then, considering how weird it was to eliminate Blue Gary without fighting Ash once.

 

[Daren]

I kinda feel there might have been some executive meddling back then, considering how weird it was to eliminate Blue Gary without fighting Ash once.

From what I've read, the original plan was that Ash would beat Gary in the finals, but would end up retiring as a trainer in favor of a normal life (Takeshi Shudo wrote a novelization of sorts revealing things like how most trainers fail and end up stuck in dead end jobs; apparently the prevalence of Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny is because girls stay in school more and make up the majority of skilled jobs) and Pikachu was going to lead a Pokémon rebellion with Meowth as a translator or something like that (there's actually what, upon reading that, seem to be seeds of that plot in some early episodes--the Tentacruel and Diglett episodes in particular).
Although I also read a variant where it would turn out Ash was an adult daydreaming about a fantastic world that doesn't exist--I'm not sure which is true (or if both were true, possibly at different times of production). Either way Takeshi Shudo had some weird ideas GameFreak was never, ever going to allow once the series became so popular.

However after the franchise took off and the show went from a planned 1 or 2 season show to a continuous run they had to retool things rapidly. A lot of the strange things in late Kanto probably come from that.

 

[Daenerys]

On another note, how about we bring back Casey and have her Beedrill Mega Evolve?

Hardly anyone was ever here for her to start with and it would take more resources to bring her back to show off an insignificant Mega when any Cotd could get the job done.

 

[Galactic_V]

I have a hard time believing those Shudou ideas'd become true to be honest. It sounds just as wtf as the tyranossaurus fossil idea, which didn't come out as well. He might've had those plans but they'd have to be changed eventually I think.

About if the show had ended in a year and a half as it was supposed to be and the big league final were gonna be Satoshi vs Shigeru, I don't think it'd be a good closure. Like I said earlier, that would be their first battle ever.

Although I have my doubts if that closure'd lead to that unused trailer for the first movie where an older Kasumi shows up.

 

[prog rocker]

There's also the fact that some of Shudo's ideas sounded way too cynical in my opinion. Like losing your gym if you lost three consecutive battles or Ash's dad being a loser whose idealized image Ash had of him were lies fed by his mother. For some people it might sound good, but it kinda reminds me of the reimagination of some superheroes where they stop being fun and turn into angst-filled shadows of what they were.

Although I also read a variant where it would turn out Ash was an adult daydreaming about a fantastic world that doesn't exist--I'm not sure which is true (or if both were true, possibly at different times of production). Either way Takeshi Shudo had some weird ideas GameFreak was never, ever going to allow once the series became so popular.

What I read about this is that this was supposed to be the ending of the first movie and it would end in a note of "was it real, or not?"

 

[Daren]

Quick thoughts:
*It occurs to me that if Tobias does appear we could finally learn what his other four Pokémon are, and I'm wondering if they'd be normal or if they'd really commit and it'll be four more Legendary/Mythicals.

*Here something I don't think anyone else suggested; I've seen Brett and Cassidy suggested but how about Doctor Namba? He even appeared as recently as DP.

*Presently, I suspect characters from the AG to BW eras are least likely to appear (if Korrina wasn't already confirmed I'd include XY in there). Sun and Moon are recent enough for the target audience to have likely seen it, while the original series has nostalgia powers on it's side (mostly Kanto but we already saw Lance with the Red Gyarados).

*

There's also the fact that some of Shudo's ideas sounded way too cynical in my opinion. Like losing your gym if you lost three consecutive battles or Ash's dad being a loser whose idealized image Ash had of him were lies fed by his mother. For some people it might sound good, but it kinda reminds me of the reimagination of some superheroes where they stop being fun and turn into angst-filled shadows of what they were.

When his ideas for the show first leaked I recall there was a decent amount of support for the ideas but they seem to be viewed less positively by now. It's sort of amusing now that "Pokémon rebellion" was actually a common darkfic idea during the Kanto/OI/Johto era.
(I recently saw a video about an earlier series Shudo worked on, a Magical Girl series called "Magical Princess Minky Momo "
Finding out about that explained a lot about early Pokémon.)

What I read about this is that this was supposed to be the ending of the first movie and it would end in a note of "was it real, or not?"

Ah, that would explain why I read those two apparently contradictory endings, thanks!

 

[Johtohfiller]

About if the show had ended in a year and a half as it was supposed to be and the big league final were gonna be Satoshi vs Shigeru, I don't think it'd be a good closure. Like I said earlier, that would be their first battle ever.

I think the ending would almost have to have been underwhelming if the show hadn't been extended. Kanto just wasn't paced right to be leading up to a grand finale.

There's also the fact that some of Shudo's ideas sounded way too cynical in my opinion. Like losing your gym if you lost three consecutive battles or Ash's dad being a loser whose idealized image Ash had of him were lies fed by his mother. For some people it might sound good, but it kinda reminds me of the reimagination of some superheroes where they stop being fun and turn into angst-filled shadows of what they were.

I honestly wonder if Shudo's novelizations might have been an f-you for not getting to do everything he wanted with the show, e.g. making Team Rocket the main characters.

Magical Princess Minky Momo - Wikipedia

"Episode 46 of the original series has become infamous due to its depiction of Momo dying after being hit by a truck carrying toys. In an issue of Japanese anime magazine OUT, series writer Takeshi Shudo explained that this was retaliation from the production staff after toy sponsor Popy had pulled funding due to poor merchandise sales, despite strong ratings."

 

[prog rocker]

"Episode 46 of the original series has become infamous due to its depiction of Momo dying after being hit by a truck carrying toys. In an issue of Japanese anime magazine OUT, series writer Takeshi Shudo explained that this was retaliation from the production staff after toy sponsor Popy had pulled funding due to poor merchandise sales, despite strong ratings."

I've heard the term "torch the franchise and run", but damn...

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

"Episode 46 of the original series has become infamous due to its depiction of Momo dying after being hit by a truck carrying toys. In an issue of Japanese anime magazine OUT, series writer Takeshi Shudo explained that this was retaliation from the production staff after toy sponsor Popy had pulled funding due to poor merchandise sales, despite strong ratings."

I can’t tell if that’s horrible or the most brilliant thing I’ve read today.

 

[prog rocker]

I can’t tell if that’s horrible or the most brilliant thing I’ve read today.

I guess it depends on if you're a fan of the series and if you think they seriously deserved that. I feel that some American cartoonists might agree with his feelings, considering I have seen some series that were cancelled for those same reasons.

 

[Daenerys]

Although I have my doubts if that closure'd lead to that unused trailer for the first movie where an older Kasumi shows up.

I thought it was already established that the trailer was just something that was whipped up to get fans hyped for the movie, not an actual preview of the series' endgame.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Nando was a character I've really come to like in retrospect. A character who actively pursues both Gyms and Contests is something very unique, and it would be great to see a similar character concept be done again. I was initially hesitant to accept the idea of him returning when it first surfaced on this thread, but upon reading further posts about the idea here, I think that actually yeah. It would be interesting to see him again.

 

[SammyW27]

*It occurs to me that if Tobias does appear we could finally learn what his other four Pokémon are, and I'm wondering if they'd be normal or if they'd really commit and it'll be four more Legendary/Mythicals.

Not happening.
Not only do I greatly doubt we'll see anime character--sorry, but game characters have take precedence AND should have a higher priority--but Tobias isn't really a character. He's plot contrivance to keep Ash from winning the Sinnog League. Look past his Pokemon and he has NO personality, depth or even any dialogue outside of giving demands.

*Here something I don't think anyone else suggested; I've seen Brett and Cassidy suggested but how about Doctor Namba? He even appeared as recently as DP.

No thanks. He's not a character. He's a crappy running gag that was run into the ground. I get more than I can stand with poor Butch, thank you.

 

[Daren]

Not happening.
Not only do I greatly doubt we'll see anime character--sorry, but game characters have take precedence AND should have a higher priority--but Tobias isn't really a character. He's plot contrivance to keep Ash from winning the Sinnog League. Look past his Pokemon and he has NO personality, depth or even any dialogue outside of giving demands.

I've mentioned I don't think we'll see anime-only characters; I was just raising the question that if he did appear whether we'd finally learn what the rest of his party was.

Although I don't agree game characters should have priority; from a marketing view it makes sense but from writing standpoint Paul was way more important than Barry, for instance.

 

[BigDocFan]

SS022 is confirmed to feature Littleroot Town, probably too much to hope for a cameo from Birch

 

[KenzeyEevee]

SS022 is confirmed to feature Littleroot Town, probably too much to hope for a cameo from Birch

Wont it would Patelburg woods.

 

[BigDocFan]

The summary I posted on the SS022 thread did mention Littleroot

 

[Islander Princess]

I was watching Dawn's departure episode from BW yesterday, and had a realization: the Wallace Cup would be absolutely perfect for a series like this. A pre-existing, gigantic contest that moves from region to region each year, and one that coordinators from all over go to compete in. It'd be an easy excuse to see some older characters and introduce Gou/the younger audience to contests (not saying that Gou would become a coordinator or anything, just another Pokemon related thing for him to learn about).

Not really sure we actually see this happen (probably not) but it'd sure be a convenient way to incorporate former characters!

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I was watching Dawn's departure episode from BW yesterday, and had a realization: the Wallace Cup would be absolutely perfect for a series like this. A pre-existing, gigantic contest that moves from region to region each year, and one that coordinators from all over go to compete in. It'd be an easy excuse to see some older characters and introduce Gou/the younger audience to contests (not saying that Gou would become a coordinator or anything, just another Pokemon related thing for him to learn about).

Not really sure we actually see this happen (probably not) but it'd sure be a convenient way to incorporate former characters!

They could probably even find a way to incorporate Serena into it, given her current Coordinator career.

 

[SammyW27]

I was watching Dawn's departure episode from BW yesterday, and had a realization: the Wallace Cup would be absolutely perfect for a series like this. A pre-existing, gigantic contest that moves from region to region each year, and one that coordinators from all over go to compete in. It'd be an easy excuse to see some older characters and introduce Gou/the younger audience to contests (not saying that Gou would become a coordinator or anything, just another Pokemon related thing for him to learn about).

Not really sure we actually see this happen (probably not) but it'd sure be a convenient way to incorporate former characters!

That would be AWESOME..

....so of course it won't happen... -_-

If they can't bring contests back to help promote ORAS, what are the chances of them doing it except for Gen 4 remakes?
Sure, Mega-Evoluion has come back a few times (and will again). Even then I'm shocked (but happy) they did since Mega-Evoluion is barely even a thing in the games anymore...
(Is it even in the Gen 8 games?)

Oh, I'd like to b wrong. But considering how this series has been going...