Opinions on Smogon's tiering system

[NoirTHECHA]

I am just wondering what others think of smogons tiers for the metagame and how you think it has helped or hurt the competitive metagame. In my opinion the tiers have helped and can slightly hurt because it has organized the competitive scene and helped set the standards for how it is played. On the other side of that it has hurt the competitive scene because it has set an idea in some peoples heads that te only way to be good and have fun battling is to use the OU tiered pokemon when really UU an NU can be just as reliable and fun. I'm no saying that all people think this way I guess mostly just narrow minded people who cannot be original in any way. That opinion what does every one else have to say?

 

[Takoto]

I don't think the Smogon tier list really changes anything, to be honest. I use it sometimes to see if a Pokémon I might train is OU, NU or UU, I guess it can inspire people to use under/never used Pokémon and such.

Also, whether it is an accurate guideline to the actual tiers or not is a matter of opinion.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

I agree with Takato's post. I mean, it is based on usage, because of that Cresselia and Qwilfish are in the SAME TIER now.

 

[NoirTHECHA]

That's true and I think that is how they should be used!! To give an idea to a person on how a particular pokemon might work out and what is more suited for. To me OU has lost it's shine and become boring use of some OU's is ok but I think once you start to see the almost exact same teams beings used for example the vgc or the summer, almost every team had a metagross, I know it's a good poke but be a little original when trying to win and have fun!!

 

[Troggy]

I agree with Takato's post. I mean, it is based on usage, because of that Cresselia and Qwilfish are in the SAME TIER now.

It's partly based on usage, but the other factor is if the Pokemon is 'broken' in that tier.

Right now the tiers are going to crap because the OU metagame is ridiculously centralized on a few select Pokemon and tactics (Steels, Dragons, U-Turn). The effect is that good Pokemon (Cresselia, Pory-Z, Alakazam) are being dumped into UU due to lack of use. This is beginning to turn the UU tier into what used to be OU (especially looking back to Gen III).

It's hard to hate on the tiering system in general though, Smogon is simply making the best attempt they can to produce multiple interesting and relatively balanced metagames. Without tiers every battle would be an Ubers battle. You'd be silly to use anything that wasn't extremely overpowered.

 

[Takoto]

To me OU has lost it's shine and become boring use

Ah, I agree. I know a lot of people who are based in competitive play feel safe using over-used Pokémon because they know their good, whether they IV/EV train them or not. I've never really taken much notice of the tiers and I just go by strategies, and tactics. Like right now, I'm training a Pokémon to be a complete tank, but I have no idea if it's over or under used. xD

 

[NoirTHECHA]

I agree with you troggey, that OU has become a single tactic single strategey area while UU is having some strange pokes moves into it, and I agree that smogon is just trying to make the metagame more organized and I am grateful that they have organized it so that we don't see palkias and arcesus running around in standard play , but I would say they need a revision On the tiers.

 

[Spiny]

At Some Points, I think their rating system is accurate, but other times it's a load of shi...earth power. Half of the NU is made up of great pokemo, but with a weakness to stealth rock (Which is why I always send out my charizard 1st, or ot at all.)

 

[Sleet]

The system is fine. In fact, it's a good thing because it allows many more Pokémon to be used at a competitive level with lower-tier matches.

The problem arises, however, when people take it as something that it's not. Too many people will reject Pokémon due to their tier (*hugs his Ninetales*) or think that lower tier Pokémon are worse. Some Pokémon are great, but never get used much competitively because the metagame loves things like Stealth Rock and Fighting attacks. Some Pokémon simply can't stand up to certain types, and they get underused. They can still be great in any other situation.

 

[NoirTHECHA]

That's true but what about the BL tier, really what would the purpose of this tier be? Is it more of a limbo between OU and UU?

 

[Our Wasted Years]

I really could care less which Pokemon is in which tier. After Chomp went to Uber and Latias went to OU I didn't see any point to complain, but take advantage of it.

Tiers were never really a problem though, if you can't make a team in the selected tier then don't play within their tier system and don't play people who do. Fucking simple right?

 

[Venom]

I have never really given much legitimacy to their tier system, it's just what the people of smogon think. Any tier system should be considered more of a guide line than an official rule. If you like it then use it, if you don't then don't use it. It its like insomniac said

Tiers were never really a problem though, if you can't make a team in the selected tier then don't play within their tier system and don't play people who do. Fucking simple right?

 

[Galactic Tomahawk]

I don't pay tiers a whole lot of mind, I just play on OU level and use whatever I want/whatever works for my team at the time. It's nice to have them around though, just to get a general idea of the game balance.

Also BL is basically UU's ban list. They're too strong for UU, but not actually used enough to make it in to OU.

 

[NoirTHECHA]

I'm not trying to say that I have any problem with tiered systems, I only was trying to say that sometimes people take the tiers way to literal an should be used like a guide o show how a certain pokemon can be used like venom and insomiac said. And if you don't like them don't us them, like insomiac said

 

[Our Wasted Years]

I'm not trying to say that I have any problem with tiered systems, I only was trying to say that sometimes people take the tiers way to literal an should be used like a guide o show how a certain pokemon can be used like venom and insomiac said. And if you don't like them don't us them, like insomiac said

I wasn't saying you did have a problem, although a lot of people do so that's why I said that.

 

[NoirTHECHA]

Alrighty just a misunderstanding :3

 

[RudolphMilotic]

The only thing I have to say about Smogon's metagame is that because I mostly play 2-on-2 matches and their tier system is build upon the Singles format, I don't care what changes they can do or the rules they choose. Rather, my issue is with the impact and relevance they influence on the 'competitive' community, as Smogon's name as well as their analysis and guidelines are mentioned in every battle forum I view or read.

For example, I hate when people use therms like OU, UU or NU even when the match is a Single one, or when you're asked for a 'Standard battle' and they force you to follow a plethora of lame rules I don't like such as Evasion, OHKO or Hax items clause. I've always played with my favorites so I don't care if my opponent think I'm cheating by using a team with Salamence, Ampharos, Starmie, Clefable, Lucario and Swampert and (s)he only uses Sableye, Spinda, Plusle, Minun, Stantler and Volbeat, clashing with his/her opinion about 'tier assortment'.
Besides, I think it's silly to ban moves and items for the sake of keeping as much as possible the luck out of the victory equation: Game Freak included them with a specific purpose since the very beginning of the franchise and they'll continue supporting them despite how much effort by the 'competitive' community to disregard them is done.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

'Standard battle' and they force you to follow a plethora of lame rules I don't like such as Evasion, OHKO or Hax items clause.
Besides, I think it's silly to ban moves and items for the sake of keeping as much as possible the luck out of the victory equation: Game Freak included them with a specific purpose since the very beginning of the franchise and they'll continue supporting them despite how much effort by the 'competitive' community to disregard them is done.

It creates thing thing called BALANCE within matches. I don't know if you ever heard of that word but that's what they're trying to create.

 

[Venusaur]

To me the tiers are okay, but some of the clauses are stupid. OHKO makes sense (but if you didn't have it Articuno would be used much more frequently due to Mind Reader + Sheer Cold) but the clauses banning status effects are lame and silly. In particular, the "no sleep" clause almost breaks Slaking, since its most effective move combo is Yawn + truancy + Focus Punch ...

In sum, I think tiering is OK, but sub-Uber they should me more guidelines rather than hard-and-fast rules some battlers take them to be, and IMO the best teams are made up of a mix of UU and OU Pokes, occasionally with some NUs thrown in. But please--those clauses are plain old stupid! Strategy minimizes the luck factor but never eliminates it.

 

[NoirTHECHA]

If they didnbhave those tiers then people would be using all uber legendaries while others who want to actually want to have a sensible battle are using normal pokes. It basically would be like pbr all the time