Orre - Main Series? Or Side Game?

[Soulweaver]

Eh, the gyms and E4 are more like (common) secondary plot points to me, not a distinctive main series feature. Either way, I'm still against the demotion of those games (they're on the main games template for a reason) but if something must be done, then let it be the side game group.

 

[yourlilemogirl]

my lil tidbit at a fleeting glance - if anyone is dead-set to keep the Orre games as main series, then why not just class them as CONSOLE Main Series games and everything else as Handheld main series games? i know i always have.

this idea may be flawed, or it may not be. Just food for thought though.

 

[011284mm]

I would like to voice that I agree with SnorlaxMonster on the splitting of the Orre games from the core section.
Red/Green -> Black/White made by GameFreak are the core games making the franchise work. Then you have battle/traiding side games including Col. and XD, before on the outer edge other equally good games using the Pokémon franchise as a way to reach a new audience.


On a side note, does anyone know where to ask Nintendo/GameFreak if they would ever consider a re-release of the Orre games on the 3DS as it could play them with ease, and I would love the chance to play these games after missing out by not having a GameCube.

 

[SnorlaxMonster]

On a side note, does anyone know where to ask Nintendo/GameFreak if they would ever consider a re-release of the Orre games on the 3DS as it could play them with ease, and I would love the chance to play these games after missing out by not having a GameCube.

You would have probably have to ask in Japanese. I know that they've responded to questions directed at them on Twitter before. But are GameCube games on the 3DS virtual console? GameCube seems to recent for that. If you have a Wii, you can still play GameCube games on that.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

But a lot of things in Colosseum are the equivalent of Gyms and the E4.

Like the Colosseums can be called gyms as each has a boss at the end and the final gauntlet can be described as the E4. You believe that you are done once you beat Nascour(Lance) but then comes the reveal there is someone else you have to face: Evice(Blue) like in Red/Blue.

 

[The Outrage]

You would have probably have to ask in Japanese. I know that they've responded to questions directed at them on Twitter before. But are GameCube games on the 3DS virtual console? GameCube seems to recent for that. If you have a Wii, you can still play GameCube games on that.

They've had N64 games on the DS.

Since there seems to be an argument regarding what a main series game is, I would like to suggest the following as how we classify them:

Main series: You play as a Trainer who catches Pokémon and collects Gym Badges, to ultimately fight against the Pokémon League

Side series: Can have a two-way interaction with main series games (meaning that the main series game can send it things, and it can send the main series game things). This ensures that we don't classify things like Ranger as side series.

Spin-off: Any other Pokémon game

I think the side-series definition should just be any game that enhances the main series, like providing a 3D platform for battling or being a storage system.

Eh, the gyms and E4 are more like (common) secondary plot points to me, not a distinctive main series feature. Either way, I'm still against the demotion of those games (they're on the main games template for a reason) but if something must be done, then let it be the side game group.

Many people would beg to differ, especially with the earlier games where the plot seemed more like an excuse plot.

After all, in RBGY, the only reason you got involved with Team Rocket anyway was because of three reasons: (1) They either had an item required to progress to other cities to get their gym badges, such as the Silph Co. being required for the Pokeflute to get to Fushia City, (2) They were directly in your way from getting a badge, such as their involvement in Saffron city, and (3) They were just there as you were passing through, like the Mt. Moon and Cerulean City encounters.

Now later games have made this better by actually making it seem like the characters themselves chose to fight off Team Rocket and other future teams (even though they always found a convenient way to force you to do it anyway, but in those cases it wasn't actually the team itself stopping you), but the main reason anyone sets out on their journey is to obtain all the gym badges in the main series.

If gyms had been the side plot, then you'd need them to help advance the Team Bad-guy plot. BW had done a good job of actually making defeating the Elite 4 a requirement to fight N, but a single instance isn't representative of the entire series, nor is it predictive of what will happen in the future.

Orre on the other had actually has its story initiated, and driven forward by the plot, something that can be seen in other spin-offs like Ranger. But then, that's really a moot point anyway depending on what kind of spin-off you're playing.

"They're on the main game template for a reason"? The only reason I seem to see is that the fans elevate it to that level. Not really a good reason if you ask me. But I agree that it should be in a different template from other spin-offs since they have an enhancing function towards the game.

 

[SnorlaxMonster]

I think the side-series definition should just be any game that enhances the main series, like providing a 3D platform for battling or being a storage system.

Yeah, I think the My Pokémon Ranch and Stadium do belong in that category; however, I don't think Ranger does. Ranger's interaction with the main series games is a bonus, not a focal point. The reason I specified two way transfer is that it includes storage and stadium games, but makes sure to exclude Ranger.

 

[FabuVinny]

Ranger isn't the only side game to award you with Pokémon in the main series either. I got my Jirachi from Channel.

The difference is that Colosseum and XD involve mutual trading in the Pokémon Centre. You don't just get the Pokémon you catch transferred for free - You have to send something you caught in the Hoenn or Kanto games in return.

Even more importantly, they use the same game mechanics as the main series. The plot may be a little different but they play the same as a main series title.

The trade is special. You are required to have some sort of special trading wire (correct me if I'm wrong) to connect the GameBoy and GameCube.

The same is true of GameBoy to GameBoy trades. All trading before Diamond and Pearl needed some form of link cable.

 

[SnorlaxMonster]

Just to help with the discussion, here is something interesting I came across:

IGN: Why have you never made a Pokemon game for Nintendo's home consoles? Would you consider doing a Game Freak main-series Pokemon game on the Wii?

Junichi Masuda: I don't think so. I think the Pokemon core series is always going to be with handheld hardware, in the future as well. I consider handheld hardware you can carry around with you as almost being equal to being with Pokemon, always. I think handheld really matches the idea of Pokemon that we have. Also, you can communicate and transfer data all the time, whenever you want with a handheld. That's also a match with the Pokemon concept.

Sure, it is translated from Japanese, but it acknowledges the term main series (or core series as Masuda's text is translated) in an official context. Masuda mentions how he thinks that the 'core' series is always going to be on handheld systems, thus dismissing that there have been any in the past.

Ranger isn't the only side game to award you with Pokémon in the main series either. I got my Jirachi from Channel.

Good point; I forgot about Channel. However, my proposed definition excludes it anyway, so that doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

[The Outrage]

Yeah, I think the My Pokémon Ranch and Stadium do belong in that category; however, I don't think Ranger does. Ranger's interaction with the main series games is a bonus, not a focal point. The reason I specified two way transfer is that it includes storage and stadium games, but makes sure to exclude Ranger.

I don't think Ranger should be either because it doesn't really enhance it so much as giving free Pokemon as an incentive to buy the game.

 

[Zesty Cactus]

wow i feel stupid... i'm not sure if i voted correctly, i misunderstood the question i think. anyways, my official vote is "ORRE = MAIN SERIES REGION"

i have always personally considered the Colosseum games to be an extension of the main series. how aren't they? they can directly trade with the GBA games, they have Pokémon to capture and train, etc.

I don't think Ranger should be either because it doesn't really enhance it so much as giving free Pokemon as an incentive to buy the game.

Ranger doesn't count. they don't interact with the main series in nearly the same way.

 

[The Outrage]

Well, you can have personal opinion, but as SnorlaxMonster showed official opinion segregates it from what they call the core series so I really don't see why there's even any more of a vote on its status.

Honestly, the only reason I saw it was even counted as main series in Bulbapedia (and isn't a unanimously held opinion everywhere) is because people higher up decided that it was. Of course, that creates a feedback loop where fans who didn't have any strong opinion one way or another would cite it as a main series game because a site like Bulbapedia categorized it as such. On many discussions I've had on these forums pertaining to canon, the most-used argument I get towards Orre games being part of the main one is "Bulbapedia lists it as such". I think its counter-intuitive for Bulbapedia to turn fan-consensus into fact, especially now that we know the official position on the matter.

Essentially we have this going:

Bulbapedia lists Orre as main series. Orre is main series because Bulbapedia says so.

There's actually no source of where this notion came from whereas now we have an official source telling us what they consider.

 

[Pokemaster97]

In my openion what makes the game a main series game is if it has the suffix "Version" attached to it. (Ie. Red and Blue versions, Yellow version) Therefore Orre would not fall under this.

 

[SnorlaxMonster]

In my openion what makes the game a main series game is if it has the suffix "Version" attached to it. (Ie. Red and Blue versions, Yellow version) Therefore Orre would not fall under this.

I would also like to point out that on Bulbapedia, "main series" redirects to Version, so Bulbapedia is contradicting itself by calling Coloseum and XD main series games. This is not to say that it should redirect that way (I think perhaps version should redirect to main series), but the fact that it does conflicts other information on Bulbapedia.

 

[The dark lord trombonator]

I agree about the redirect. It should be Version -> Main series.

 

[pokemon6]

Orre is a main series game

 

[The Outrage]

Orre is a main series game

Reason being? I honestly don't like how the poll asks us to explain our reasons for saying the opposite, while apparently we can just choose to leave it as it currently is without that position being defended (though many other posts have brought up a good discussion)

As of right now the only reasons I see for is because of fan say it is.

The reason I see it against is an indirect remark from Game Freak staff.

I'd say the latter has more weighting, but I've already stated my position on the why I think so.

 

[Zeta]

If Junichi Masuda says that the core series games will and always have been on handhelds, that's good enough of a definition to exclude the Orre series from a main series listing for me.

 

[The Outrage]

Also wondering how much a majority one is expecting, as there is a poll, and currently we have 19 people for main series, and a combination of 33 people for not main series (combination of the two options).

 

[SnorlaxMonster]

Also wondering how much a majority one is expecting, as there is a poll, and currently we have 19 people for main series, and a combination of 33 people for not main series (combination of the two options).

Actually, I think that's 28 for main series, and 19 for not main series. It doesn't help that the question was worded so confusingly (I voted for "I propose a different option" anyway).