"Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

[Silktree]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

It's not an alternate time-line, but an alternate dimension.

Actually, the game references two different worlds. A physicist or even a science fiction author would use the term 'parallel universe' rather than 'alternate dimension'. It is theorized that traveling to a parallel universe requires going through a dimension besides the standard ones, but that is not to say that two parallel universes don't reside in the same three-dimensional space; only the path occupies another dimension. There may be other kinds of universes, but I don't think the concept Game Freak created for Unova goes that far.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

It's not an alternate time-line, but an alternate dimension.

Actually, the game references two different worlds. A physicist or even a science fiction author would use the term 'parallel universe' rather than 'alternate dimension'. It is theorized that traveling to a parallel universe requires going through a dimension besides the standard ones, but that is not to say that two parallel universes can't reside in the same three-dimensional space; only the path occupies another dimension. There may be other kinds of universes, but I don't think the concept Game Freak created for Unova goes that far.

A bit unrelated, but this actually helps me reconcile the different levels of "worlds" that exists in the game (i.e., assuming that all versions are just parallel universes, with BW being most prominent; Unown dimension; Distortion World)

 

[~ Z ~]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Somehow I instantly thought something like:
- Kyurem TRANSFORM! Reshiram! TRANSFORM! POWERLINK! Kyurem - Flame MODE!
- Kyurem TRANSFORM! Zekrom! TRANSFORM! POWERLINK! Kyurem - Shock MODE!
- Kyurem TRANSFORM! POWERLINK COMBINE! Kyurem - Super MODE!
*Tao Trio! More then meets the eye! Tao Trio! Dragons in disguise!*

Now taking it more seriously; I sure hope so.
I think it'd personally be interesting.
And I'd like to know it's type. Possibly being just single typed. Dragon possibly?

 

[Bulletproof Scales]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

What Drayden have to tell the player in the black version, as quoted here under, is refering to the concept of Qi.

"Pokémon and people do not age because of the passage of time. They get old when the energy flowing in their hearts dries up. This energy in our hearts is powered by truth, ideals, or maybe dreams... That probably changes with what you most hope for in your life."

Mencius described a kind of qi that might be characterized as an individual's vital energies....

...He said "Human beings are born [because of] the accumulation of qi. When it accumulates there is life. When it dissipates there is death... There is one qi that connects and pervades everything in the world.

Immediately eyecatching is how there's two different states of Qi, both being embodiments of Yin and Yang. How this corresponds to Kyurem is possibly explained as well;

Condensed, becomes life; diluted, it is indefinite potential.

Kyurem has indefinite potetial in it's access to embody both Yin and Yang, and becomes life first when it takes the form of either of them? If Kyurem is the concept of Qi, it would be the original dragon, splitting (rather creating) into Yin and Yang at the same time and being able to do so again (black/white Kyurem) in BW2.

Maybe only fragmented similarities, though, there's flaws in there. But I could see Kyurem having aged by the lack of energy in its heart (ideals and truth) and been kept alive on dreams?


When it comes to the split in the universe and when that occured, I'm stunned and quite confused as to how it only had an effect on Opelucid City. "A city where past and future intertwine", or the even more intriguing; "time's dividing line" makes me feel sure it's not only this one man and his son who'd heard of a world where the city has progressed differently in time.

 

[Silktree]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

When it comes to the split in the universe and when that occured, I'm stunned and quite confused as to how it only had an effect on Opelucid City.

It also affected Black City and White Forest, but sadly those are the only obvious version differences (aside from Reshiram and Zekrom's role reversal). I hope that there will be at least one new location (outside of Unova) with even more significant version differences. There also needs to be a satisfying explanation of the split's effect on Unova's history. If neither one of the twin heroes won the war and both Zekrom and Reshiram perished regardless of the universe involved, then what was it that caused the differences (few though they may be)? The only record of the split is arguably in the Abyssal Ruins, where two lines in the inscription are version-dependent. I assume that Kyurem was the one that propelled the split, but we know very little of its history.

 

[Stratago]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

The will and body of the OD split in order to serve the Twin Heroes based on their alignment archetypes to create beings of pure Yin (Zekrom; negative energy) and pure Yang (Reshiram; positive energy). That which didn't fit into either (the neutral energy) was left behind when they split, resulting in Kyurem. (The ice covering its body and it's general 'undead' appearance are both examples of it's 'neutral' nature.)
This 'empty' being would be virtually without life, due to its absence of both Yin and Yang, but have great 'capacity' for either or both of those forces, which explains why it can fuse with the other two or at least absorb their qi/ki/chi to somewhat assume their appearances.
By this line of thought, Kyurem is (theoretically) the 'leftovers' of the OD which weren't used in the creation of Zekrom & Reshiram.

Thanks to The Outrage for articulating what I was trying to say about Wuji much better than I did.

As far as Arceus is concerned: Mew, who was introduced back in Gen I, contains DNA from all known Pokemon, and is believed be the ancestor of all modern Pokemon. When Arceus was revealed, I suppose many people felt like it was a 'new religion' being thrust on them. (That or people just don't like the idea of being able to capture 'god' in a Pokeball.)

 

[El_]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Honestly did not want to state this, because it sounds kind of out there, but since were on the subject of Kyurem I was wondering could Kyurem be the first legendary Pokemon to evolve? The reason why I ask this is because some think of it as the Original Dragon, but with a massive energy (Qi) loss, while some just think of it as the leftovers created from the split. Evolution would say that Kyurem is, in a way both.

Evolution requires a certain amount of energy in Pokemon to be obtained, in order to go from one stage to another. Wouldn't this "energy" not be similar to or the same as Qi? Whether an evolution or not, if Kyurem is the Original Dragon then it is obviously in a lesser state than what it once was, even if it was something completely different. The process of what the Original Dragon went through seems to be a devolution into a lesser forme or Pokemon: Kyurem.

While a simple new forme would be the easiest approach, an evolution into a powerful new Dragon might be another option. Kyurem is the Original Dragon, and isn't at the same time under this theory. I honestly don't really support it that much, but just something I'd throw out there.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Honestly did not want to state this, because it sounds kind of out there, but since were on the subject of Kyurem I was wondering could Kyurem be the first legendary Pokemon to evolve? The reason why I ask this is because some think of it as the Original Dragon, but with a massive energy (Qi) loss, while some just think of it as the leftovers created from the split. Evolution would say that Kyurem is, in a way both.

Evolution requires a certain amount of energy in Pokemon to be obtained, in order to go from one stage to another. Wouldn't this "energy" not be similar to or the same as Qi? Whether an evolution or not, if Kyurem is the Original Dragon then it is obviously in a lesser state than what it once was, even if it was something completely different. The process of what the Original Dragon went through seems to be a devolution into a lesser forme or Pokemon: Kyurem.

While a simple new forme would be the easiest approach, an evolution into a powerful new Dragon might be another option. Kyurem is the Original Dragon, and isn't at the same time under this theory. I honestly don't really support it that much, but just something I'd throw out there.

Certain formes are more similar to evolution rather than simple visual changes (e.g., Rotom, Shaymin), yet have no set criteria. Kyurem could still have a forme change in that regard, only this time, the requirement is that it receives the energy of Reshiram/Zekrom.

Evolution itself is a complicated issue in the series--some Pokemon need to acquire a certain amount of power, while others need only be exposed to certain stimuli to result in the release of energy required for evolution. However, these releases in energy are permanent changes. Kyurem on the other hand would be able to freely change between forms, which is what I think differentiates formes and evolution. Then there's also large-scale variations in a species that an individual can't switch between, but I think that just illustrates how ill-defined the concepts of forms are in Pokemon.

 

[Stratago]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I don't think evolving legendary pokemon is 'out there' at all. It's my opinion that Formes are more like substitute evolutions, because people can choose whether or not to 'evolve' their legend into something and then switch back. I'd like to see legendaries with branching evo paths, sorta like Eevees, that way it would create divesity.
Or maybe the makers of the game make formes instead of evolutions to give themselves a little leeway while releasing the first 'version' of the game in a generation. By the time a week passes, someone has hacked the game and found all the data for the different Pokemon in it. If there were 'secret' evolutions of certain Pokemon, especially legendary ones, they'd be found immediately and be all over the net in no time (kinda like what happened with Darkrai, Shaymin and Arceus).

 

[Griknot]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

So Stratago thinks that Kyurem is like Cell? Wtf?
It steals power from the other 2 dragons. Its in the trailer of the new movie. And isnt Kyurem a zombie that eats people?

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

And isnt Kyurem a zombie that eats people?

In-game rumors that have yet to be confirmed.

 

[Griknot]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

The people in that town says he does, doesnt that mean its real?
Oh I get it you mean the people in the town dont know it for sure so its a rumor. Got it.
So then Kyurem isnt dead? I thought he was frozen alive or something cuz he has 0-degree air coming from inside him.

 

[Windchild]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Kyurem wouldn't have such a low BST if it were intended to be the original. That just doesn't add up.

Personally, I think Kyurem was the part of the OD that was neutral in the argument, and the other two parts wanted to separate more, so they therefore inherited more power that it.

Even if I'm wrong, mitosis is mitosis, even for dragons... Hahahaha...

 

[Zistal]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

And isnt Kyurem a zombie that eats people?

In-game rumors that have yet to be confirmed.

The people of Lacunosa Town enacted a curfew and surrounded the entire place with a wall just to avoid Kyurem.

The curfew is one thing, but the wall pretty much confirms Kyurem was doing much more than just spooking people.

Besides, it's not like the third member of the mascot trio being a dick is a new thing. Giratina's "violence"(Which to this day has never been explained) resulted in it getting labeled the Renegade Pokemon, banished to the Distortion World, and its monument in Eterna City being removed.

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

The people of Lacunosa Town enacted a curfew and surrounded the entire place with a wall just to avoid Kyurem.

The curfew is one thing, but the wall pretty much confirms Kyurem was doing much more than just spooking people.

Besides, it's not like the third member of the mascot trio being a dick is a new thing. Giratina's "violence"(Which to this day has never been explained) resulted in it getting labeled the Renegade Pokemon, banished to the Distortion World, and its monument in Eterna City being removed.

Their superstition doesn't confirm anything. There's nothing in-game that proves Kyurem actively goes after anyone not within the walls of Lacunosa Town at night. Even at night, there's an NPC standing near where the boulder needs to be moved to access Giant Chasm. Don't you think Gamefreak would be consistent with their placement of NPCs while taking into consideration that everyone in the town nearby goes out of their way to avoid Kyurem? And honestly, why would a puny wall like that stop Kyurem from rampaging through Lacunosa Town?

To me, it sounds like nothing more than an urban legend, which I am very skeptical of. And I will remain skeptical until we learn more about Kyurem's origins.

I don't doubt that Giratina and Kyurem have less-than-pleasant reputations, though. But those reputations are usually based on old tales of their supposed "violence" and nothing more.

 

[Windchild]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

And honestly, why would a puny wall like that stop Kyurem from rampaging through Lacunosa Town?

Completely agree. It can just walk right into the town via the Route 13 entrance. If that was blocked, well, it has wings, right?

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Completely agree. It can just walk right into the town via the Route 13 entrance. If that was blocked, well, it has wings, right?

I don't think they're necessarily wings. And if they are, then one of them is broken. It could just jump over the wall...or knock the wall down. This wall doesn't even surround the entire perimeter of Lacunosa Town.

 

[Stratago]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

My hope for a restored OD has been renewed thanks to the revealed new formes of the Kami Trio, which I personally doubt anyone saw coming. I'd have expected alternate formes of the Muskedeers (since their inclusion in the opening sequence indicates, IMO, a bigger part in the story) before the Kami trio got them. If there are new versions of those three, there's no reason to think there aren't more versions of other pokemon at this point. I've never heard anybody talking about placeholder data for three more alternates, so bring forth Kyurem's fourth form!

 

[Windchild]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I don't think they're necessarily wings.

Well, it can fly, the other two and it's other Formes have wings, they look like wings, so Occam's Razor (That's how you spell it, right?) dictates they are wings.

 

[El_]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I've yet to see Kyurem (base) open its mouth at all. It is literally frozen shut.

Anyways, given the new Kami formes they might as well program a new Dragon in the games altogether. It doesn't need to be compatible with BW no more than the funky new genie animals aren't going to be.