"Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

[Windchild]

I would say neutral Qi. Even if it's Pokedex data doesn't add up with reality, Kyurem is said to leak cold energy. That doesn't make sense, sure, but since when was Pokemon scientifically accurate outside of the in-game museums?

 

[Stratago]

I assumed that Kyurem's 'Cold Energy' was kind of like the 'chill of the void', representing its emptiness, and ergo its ability to absorb Qi/Ki/Chi, which is why I thought that if it absorbed both energies at once it would become like the OD again. I still think Kyurem's classification as the 'Boundary Pokemon' references an 'empty' taijitu.
Yin and Yang do exist in both males and females, but I was referring to the predominant essence of the one or the other in this instance.
They did switch the roles of the two in Avatar, but I don't know if Tui was ever definitively male or female in series. I always thought it was weird that Zhao killed Tui rather than La to get rid of the moon, though; In traditional Taoism, Tui would represent the sun and fire, while the La would represent the moon and water. In the movie they acknowledged that Tui was male - or at least Zhao and Yue referred to it as such - but it still was the moon spirit. Another example of the reversed Yin/Yang roles is Saidin and Saidar. IMO, the Tao Trio looks more like the True Source's symbol anyway, since there don't seem to be seeds of yin/yang in the opposite.
Concerning that legend, BTW - It could be assumed that Relic Castle was the palace of the twin brothers, and geographically it's in the middle of a seemingly out-of-place desert. What if Zek and Resh's fight 'to exhaustion' caused the land to become a wreck? (This also plays into the Muskedeers' story.)

 

[El_]

I would say neutral Qi. Even if it's Pokedex data doesn't add up with reality, Kyurem is said to leak cold energy. That doesn't make sense, sure, but since when was Pokemon scientifically accurate outside of the in-game museums?

Cold energy is to counteract Reshiram/Zekrom's heat energy. If you take away all the heat of Reshiram/Zekrom, then whats left behind is cold emptiness.

While I agree that Kyurem is neutral (until taking one of it's formes) it seems to portray a lack of Qi (energy) and what happens when Qi runs out of a living being at death.

 

[Windchild]

Concerning that legend, BTW - It could be assumed that Relic Castle was the palace of the twin brothers, and geographically it's in the middle of a seemingly out-of-place desert. What if Zek and Resh's fight 'to exhaustion' caused the land to become a wreck?

Actually, Relic Castle was said to have been built by one of the Heroes and his dragon, most likely Truth/Reshiram in Black, and Ideals/Zekrom in White, judging on how Lenora or an archaeologist found the Light/Dark Stone in there. I want to say Dragonspiral Tower, judging how the other one is there, but it doesn't seem to have any living space.

Cold energy is to counteract Reshiram/Zekrom's heat energy. If you take away all the heat of Reshiram/Zekrom, then whats left behind is cold emptiness.

While I agree that Kyurem is neutral (until taking one of it's formes) it seems to portray a lack of Qi (energy) and what happens when Qi runs out of a living being at death.

Cold energy. It's still energy, even if it doesn't exist IRL. Energy... I'd imagine that if Kyurem's normal Forme lacked Qi, then the new Formes wouldn't be covered in ice or be of the Ice type. I don't have a theory, yet, but I'd imagine that:

Reshiram---White Kyurem---Kyurem---Black Kyurem---Zekrom would be a more accurate model rather than throwing BW Kyurem at the ends of the scale.

 

[El_]

Cold energy. It's still energy, even if it doesn't exist IRL. Energy... I'd imagine that if Kyurem's normal Forme lacked Qi, then the new Formes wouldn't be covered in ice or be of the Ice type. I don't have a theory, yet, but I'd imagine that:

Reshiram---White Kyurem---Kyurem---Black Kyurem---Zekrom would be a more accurate model rather than throwing BW Kyurem at the ends of the scale.

Kyurem is an absence of energy, its obviously lacking in it from the way that it looks, to the typing, to the theme of Wuji, to its color. Thats why it needs to borrow energy from Reshiram/Zekrom to begin with. It doesn't need a type change to portray that it has energy (Qi) back into its body, as its formes being more powerful and using Fire/Electricity as well as the signatures are enough.

Color wise that model works well though, but when going into it's formes:

White Kyurem --- Reshiram (energy) --- Kyurem --- (energy) Zekrom --- Black Kyurem

Thats exactly what its going to look like. On this topic again, unless the dimensional theory that The Outrage proposes is correct, or conversely the Stones (Light/Dark/God) being used I don't see Kyurem being the Original Dragon nor getting another forme that is "perfect." I kinda like the Arceus #650 new Pokemon theory, as the Original Dragon would be its own Pokemon at least. I just hope that whatever happens, I won't need to get a 3DS for it like with the Kami's formes.

 

[pokemega32]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

The OD can't appear to be a fusion of the 3, since it was the original existence. (Someone used DBZ earlier, Gogeta looks like Goku and Vegeta since they are the original, true beings.)

Uh, why can't the OD resemble a fusion? The in-canon explanation would just be that Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem each took different aspects from their original form.

Think Zyuranger (source material for Mighty Morphin Power Rangers). The mecha in that series were all pieces of a god that had been split apart. Of course, this god just looks like a bunch of dinosaur robots mashed together. But it's still the original form.

I'm not sure if this has been completely resolved or not, but if there's anyone left who continues to believe that Kyurem has no connection to the original dragon, the official movie 15 site says:

Kyurem: The strongest Dragon-type Pokemon, its power is on par with Reshiram and Zekrom. Carrying the strongest heredity, it was born at the same time as Zekrom and Reshiram. It can change into Black and White Kyurem. Extreme cold radiates from its body.

 

[Windchild]

So we have proof that Kyurem isn't the OD. It wouldn't be the corpse. So, no 'Perfect Kyurem', if it has the strongest heredity, and therefore wouldn't be the 'empty slate' that everyone thinks.

 

[The Outrage]

I'd have to agree with the notion that cold energy, while not a real thing is real in the Pokemon world. Perhaps 'cold energy' is what is left after yin and yang energy (in the form of Reshiram and Zekrom) were split. It would explai both the claim that Kyurem matches them in power and being born at the same time.

As for why I personally oppose the idea that Original Dragon looks like a composite form is that it implies it was not the natural state but a fusion (same criticism of Zyuraranger). While its possible, it seems more natural. I'm not saying it cant ressemble all three but I'd rather the design look more streamlined than what B/W Kyurem basically offers.

 

[El_]

As for why I personally oppose the idea that Original Dragon looks like a composite form is that it implies it was not the natural state but a fusion (same criticism of Zyuraranger). While its possible, it seems more natural. I'm not saying it cant ressemble all three but I'd rather the design look more streamlined than what B/W Kyurem basically offers.

I can see what your saying. When I look at Arceus for example, it resembles its own Creation trio in some ways, but its still unique enough to look like its own thing without taking too many similarities from Dialga/Palkia/Giratina.

 

[Windchild]

As for why I personally oppose the idea that Original Dragon looks like a composite form is that it implies it was not the natural state but a fusion (same criticism of Zyuraranger). While its possible, it seems more natural. I'm not saying it cant ressemble all three but I'd rather the design look more streamlined than what B/W Kyurem basically offers.

I can see what your saying. When I look at Arceus for example, it resembles its own Creation trio in some ways, but its still unique enough to look like its own thing without taking too many similarities from Dialga/Palkia/Giratina.

It may have a few more similarities, being that it's closer genetically to it's trio than Arceus to the Creation Trio. It may be a little like the Eterna Statue... But with it's own thing.

 

[BlueNostalgia]

I doubt we'll ever see it in game at this stage, but I do like @Stratago's theory, and I totally agree with him. Zekrom and Reshiram were essentially born out of the sheer power of the original dragon, and Kyurem was pretty much the carcass, we're told that in game. I would really love to see this later on; perhaps in a few Generations time they'll release they Grey Version that we had originally anticipated and this will be the plot line, or at least a sub-plot.

A few problems are raised though. For example, what would its typing be? Would it remain Dragon/Ice and get a larger move pool to include Electric and Fire attacks? I don't think it would become Dragon/Ice/Fire/Electric. People have speculated about triple typings (I personally think they won't be added; they'd break the game mechanics), but I think we can all safely say that they definitely wouldn't have Quadruple typings. Dragon/Psychic maybe? And what event would have to occur in order for this to be possible?

Also, @Stratago, that drawing is awesome. If we ever do see the original dragon, I really hope it looks something like that. Nice work.

 

[Articwolf10]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

The OD can't appear to be a fusion of the 3, since it was the original existence. (Someone used DBZ earlier, Gogeta looks like Goku and Vegeta since they are the original, true beings.)

Uh, why can't the OD resemble a fusion? The in-canon explanation would just be that Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem each took different aspects from their original form.

Think Zyuranger (source material for Mighty Morphin Power Rangers). The mecha in that series were all pieces of a god that had been split apart. Of course, this god just looks like a bunch of dinosaur robots mashed together. But it's still the original form.

I'm not sure if this has been completely resolved or not, but if there's anyone left who continues to believe that Kyurem has no connection to the original dragon, the official movie 15 site says:

Kyurem: The strongest Dragon-type Pokemon, its power is on par with Reshiram and Zekrom. Carrying the strongest heredity, it was born at the same time as Zekrom and Reshiram. It can change into Black and White Kyurem. Extreme cold radiates from its body.

just curious is that offical or did somebody make that up?

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I'm not sure if this has been completely resolved or not, but if there's anyone left who continues to believe that Kyurem has no connection to the original dragon, the official movie 15 site says:

Kyurem: The strongest Dragon-type Pokemon, its power is on par with Reshiram and Zekrom. Carrying the strongest heredity, it was born at the same time as Zekrom and Reshiram. It can change into Black and White Kyurem. Extreme cold radiates from its body.

just curious is that offical or did somebody make that up?

This is the section of the official movie website with information about Kyurem:

The red underlined sentence (ゼクロムとレシラムと同時に生まれた) describes when Kyurem was born, and it does in fact translate to it being born at the same time as Reshiram and Zekrom. The first kanji translates roughly to "simultaneous" and the second kanji translates to "to be born."

 

[Articwolf10]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I'm not sure if this has been completely resolved or not, but if there's anyone left who continues to believe that Kyurem has no connection to the original dragon, the official movie 15 site says:

Kyurem: The strongest Dragon-type Pokemon, its power is on par with Reshiram and Zekrom. Carrying the strongest heredity, it was born at the same time as Zekrom and Reshiram. It can change into Black and White Kyurem. Extreme cold radiates from its body.

just curious is that offical or did somebody make that up?

This is the section of the official movie website with information about Kyurem:

The red underlined sentence (ゼクロムとレシラムと同時に生まれた) describes when Kyurem was born, and it does in fact translate to it being born at the same time as Reshiram and Zekrom. The first kanji translates roughly to "simultaneous" and the second kanji translates to "to be born."

Awesome so it's 100% official that Kyurem was formed the same time as Reshi and Zek? would this count with the games as well?

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Awesome so it's 100% official that Kyurem was formed the same time as Reshi and Zek? would this count with the games as well?

It's on the official movie site, so it can't get any more official than that. While it hasn't been confirmed for B2/W2, I'm pretty sure this will apply to the games, as well.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Awesome so it's 100% official that Kyurem was formed the same time as Reshi and Zek? would this count with the games as well?

It's on the official movie site, so it can't get any more official than that. While it hasn't been confirmed for B2/W2, I'm pretty sure this will apply to the games, as well.

A lot of early fan theories had already hypothesized that (born, became the corpse of--either way, it was created at the same time) so I'm willing to guess that fans picked up on this association early on as well. I doubt the anime producers were looking at fansites for their next plot, and given that this is the B2W2 advertisement movie, I'd say it plays a role in the games.

I honestly don't see the point in the anime bothering to make that up unless the connection already existed. It wouldn't be that hard to just say Kyurem is simply stronger than the other two.

I doubt we'll ever see it in game at this stage, but I do like @Stratago's theory, and I totally agree with him. Zekrom and Reshiram were essentially born out of the sheer power of the original dragon, and Kyurem was pretty much the carcass, we're told that in game.

We actually aren't told that at all. Just like how Giratina, despite being related to Palkia and Dialga did not get mentioned in any of their myths (not even the ones involving Arceus) in DP, Kyurem is not mentioned in any of the stories regarding the twin heroes and their dragons.

In fact, going with what was said in-canon, Zekrom and Reshiram were not born from the sheer power of the Original Dragon, but the Original Dragon being unable to choose between which of the two brothers to follow.

Kyurem, is no doubt a remnant of the original split. While the two dragons were separated from the Original Dragon, all that was left was a "nothingness", possibly conceptualized as Kyurem's cold energy in contrast to Reshiram and Zekrom's Yin and Yang energy. I have a theory here of why Kyurem appeared (according to accounts in Lacunosa) as a meteor being shot out of the sky. Essentially, the area could be a weak spot between the two dimensions alluded to in the game.

I've personally abandoned the idea that Kyurem is the corpse. Being conceptualized as rivaling Reshiram and Zekrom's power, and 'cold energy'--I am beginning to think 'cold energy' is Game Freak's term for the opposite of the combination of yin and yang. Essentially, I think Game Freak is simply renaming 'wuji' into 'cold energy'.

 

[El_]

I agree. Electricity and Fire both produce heat and light, while Ice brings cold and darkness (Winter). They are being quite literal with the Tao/Wuji theme as opposed to being abstract.

Just like how people view Giratina as the opposite of Arceus, Kyurem (Wuji) is likely the opposite of the Original Dragon (Taiji). Like I posted before, I believe that the Original Dragon will stand for the concept of Absolute hot as opposed to Kyurem's Absolute zero.

 

[Windchild]

Just like how people view Giratina as the opposite of Arceus...

Since when? It's the child of Arceus. You're thinking of Dialga and Palkia being opposite to Giratina.

Same thing applies for Kyurem. It can't be the opposite because the two never existed at the same time.

 

[The Outrage]

Just like how people view Giratina as the opposite of Arceus...

Since when? It's the child of Arceus. You're thinking of Dialga and Palkia being opposite to Giratina.

Since before people knew Giratina's actual relation, but that's besides the point now.

Same thing applies for Kyurem. It can't be the opposite because the two never existed at the same time.

I'm guessing you mean it can't be the opposite of the Original Dragon? In which case your statement previously about Giratina opposing Palkia and Dialga would hold true here with regards to Kyurem and the twin dragons.

Of course, it can be considered the "opposite" in that it is what's created when the Original Dragon was (essentially) destroyed to give life to Reshiram and Zekrom.

 

[Windchild]

Just like how people view Giratina as the opposite of Arceus...

Since when? It's the child of Arceus. You're thinking of Dialga and Palkia being opposite to Giratina.

Since before people knew Giratina's actual relation, but that's besides the point now.

Same thing applies for Kyurem. It can't be the opposite because the two never existed at the same time.

I'm guessing you mean it can't be the opposite of the Original Dragon? In which case your statement previously about Giratina opposing Palkia and Dialga would hold true here with regards to Kyurem and the twin dragons.

Of course, it can be considered the "opposite" in that it is what's created when the Original Dragon was (essentially) destroyed to give life to Reshiram and Zekrom.

True... But I still don't believe they are opposites. Opposites usually exist at the same time, and are usually of the same power. You're not going to tell me that the OD will have a BST of 660?
Any differentiation on Kyurem's birth from Resh/Zek's would practically disqualify it from the trio, in my opinion. But, hey, I was wrong about the temporal setting of BW2, so...