"Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

[Blockhead Pippi]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Man... If there's no spare data on the cartridge for a 'Perfect' forme that pretty much means there won't be one... no matter how much sense I think it would make...
Awww... I wanted Kyurem to have a cool 'this is how I'm supposed to be' forme, rather than a busted frozen chicken or a quazimodo-mutant. That bums me out.

First, it's spelled 'Quasimodo', with a s not a z. Call me a HoND nerd if you want, I won't mind.

Second, we have no flippen idea if Kyurem is even the original dragon. There is no confirmation on it. And for all we know, maybe the original dragon is just about as 'ugly' as you described Kyurem.

 

[El_]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I think the Original Dragon is just a myth and we'll never see it in-game. It would make little sense to introduce it in Gen 6 as a Pokemon like that would be very important and need to be included in this Gen to keep the story together. I don't see them running the same storyline with the same Pokemon into a 2nd gen. (I know Regigigas was introduced in a later Gen. but the Regis aren't important to the main story of those games either.)

Here's what I think: The Original Dragon doesn't need to be an obtainable Pokemon to represent Taiji (the whole) since that's what its legend explains. Simply by saying "Reshiram and Zekrom use to be 1 Pokemon" validates what it represents, which means it doesn't have to really exist in-game. Plus, remember that the Dragon's legend makes no mention of a 3rd Pokemon coming from the split or of Kyurem at all. Kyurem's connection to Reshiram and Zekrom is only because of what aspect of Taoism they represent, not that they were originally 1 dragon.

If Kyurem had a more powerful forme, we would have seen it by now and it would make no sense for us to get 2 sequels with the same Pokemon on the cover of both in 2 different formes if there was another waiting. I just think the Original Dragon story was used to explain the Taoism relation in an interesting way and relate the events of the legend with the battle between N and the PC.

It is undeniable canon fact that the Original Dragon existed physically. The game explicitly states as such. BW2 do not have to be that compatible with BW, as BW2 are not third versions but completely new games, so the Original Dragon does not need be be compatible with it.

I agree on Kyurem though, but the conflict of Unova won't be completely resolved unless the Original Dragon makes a reappearance. They can easily program a #650 in BW2's coding if they want to. They gave everyone a Spikey Eared Pichu which can't be traded in its own generation either, surely the Original Dragon is not out of the question.

 

[Stratago]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Man... If there's no spare data on the cartridge for a 'Perfect' forme that pretty much means there won't be one... no matter how much sense I think it would make...
Awww... I wanted Kyurem to have a cool 'this is how I'm supposed to be' forme, rather than a busted frozen chicken or a quazimodo-mutant. That bums me out.

First, it's spelled 'Quasimodo', with a s not a z. Call me a HoND nerd if you want, I won't mind.

Second, we have no flippen idea if Kyurem is even the original dragon. There is no confirmation on it. And for all we know, maybe the original dragon is just about as 'ugly' as you described Kyurem.

I don't know how many times I've said that Kyurem IS NOT the Original Dragon; all three of them are the Original One, and I think that through Kyurem, due to it's Perfect Emptiness, the Original One could be 'reborn', at which time it would stop being Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem and become (whatever the Original One's name is). Again, I'm referring to it as 'Perfect Kyurem' because nobody knows the proper name.
I personally think that the Original One will look something like a cross of the three of them. The prominent features of Zekrom and Reshiram (their head-tails, wings, 'armor', tails, etc) compliment each other very well, and merging their two images would... I wish I had a scanner; I'd just draw it and then you'd see what I was talking about; I can't describe it very well. In any case, if you put Kyurem's features over that (it's jaw-'armor', assorted spikes and whatnot) it would also fit. That's what the Original One would look like.
The spellchecker caught my spelling of QuaSimodo's name, but since it also tells me that every time I enter a Pokemon's name it's misspelled, I didn't really think about it. Concerning that, though, as someone who claims they won't mind if I disrespect them for being OCD about something, you may want to acknowledge that it's OK for me to be OCD about this. It's just my opinion. I don't know why everyone is so keen on saying 'you're wrong' rather than 'that's interesting; how about this?'

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Oh, I guess I must have kept misreading something. Sorry, it doesn't help when your posts are, no offense, a wall of text every time. It's hard to read and to stay focused. It'd help if you'd actually separate your posts into paragraphs.

Well anyway, I don't believe that they are all the original dragon NOW. Sure they ONCE were, but not anymore. They're separate entities that came as a result of the original dragon splitting itself, and I'm quite sure that's what the games make them out to be as well.

Either way, I don't see why Kyurem would have special rights having a form that resembles the original dragon. Frankly it makes more sense that the original dragon would be re-formed if all three dragons had fused together.

 

[Xenidal]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Frankly it makes more sense that the original dragon would be re-formed if all three dragons had fused together.

No one's saying they can't fuse together...

As for the compatibility issue, it makes sense to not be compatible because at the point in the story in which Black / White take place, the original dragon no longer existed and hadn't been re-formed yet.

If somehow the three merge in Black 2 / White 2 it wouldn't make sense to be able to send him to a game which he wouldn't have yet existed in.

However, I do think that they probably would have thought about that ahead of time and added the compatibility anyway (typically, they don't really care a lot about making sense... you can tell by the fact that Kangaskhan are born with babies already in them and Chansey is born already holding an egg).
But I'm still not conviced that it's not reasonable for it to appear in Generation VI.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I wasn't saying that the original dragon should exist again, I was just saying that it could exist if the Tao trio were to fuse. If anything, the original dragon is the past, and the past should be kept as the past. That's like saying GF should reveal to us what the original forms of Entei, Raikou, and Suicune looked like before they died and were reincarnated by Ho-Oh. That's the past.

 

[El_]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I don't know how many times I've said that Kyurem IS NOT the Original Dragon; all three of them are the Original One, and I think that through Kyurem, due to it's Perfect Emptiness, the Original One could be 'reborn', at which time it would stop being Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem and become (whatever the Original One's name is). Again, I'm referring to it as 'Perfect Kyurem' because nobody knows the proper name.

Oh, I get you now. I honestly misinterpreted your original post. This is basically the exact same as Silktree's theory on Kyurem channeling the spirit of the Original Dragon, which would not result in a "forme" per say but rather like a placeholder for a brand new Dragon Pokemon altogether.

Yeah, Perfect Kyurem kinda threw me off since I don't view Kyurem as the Original Dragon, and its movie states that it was born at the same time as Reshiram/Zekrom. But the way that you described its emptiness fits perfectly, as it could channel the Original Dragon like an Avatar of sorts.

N's Puzzle Cube and the hologram of the Pokemon inside of it is speculated to be a part of this mystery.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Dragon skeleton (Kyurem) =/= Original dragon.

Also, the idea that Kyurem is the remains of the original dragon is a fan theory, it has not been officially confirmed. And really, it just makes more sense that the original dragon would be its own Pokemon species. Maybe for Gen 6 or something, but it's also doubtful that Game Freak will revisit it.

Reshiram and Zekrom are the two halves of the original dragon... I find it hard to believe that Kyurem is a completely separate being altogether (being in the same trio with them, as opposed to them being a duo and Kyurem just a separate Pokémon).
I'm thinking the original dragon will make an appearance in Generation VI... something much like Regigigas (entirely unrelated to the story, but still appearing). Maybe the original dragon is the "trio master".

Who decided to call them a trio the fans after all bulbapedia is a fan wiki so I believe calling them a trio in itself is a bit rash. Yes they look similar and have similar typing but Kyurem has two main body colors and they are completely seperate in revealed origin. Kyurem came from a meteor while the Plasma Duo came from another pokemon. Yes there is the Kyurem forms but we can't be sure it is cause by fusion. Hell we have Magneton but there is no fusion function in the game so why would they have one now.

Bottom line we are jumping the gun remember when were expecting Gray.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Then explain why Black Kyurem and White Kyurem closely resembles Zekrom and Reshiram. They are related.

 

[Xenidal]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I wasn't saying that the original dragon should exist again, I was just saying that it could exist if the Tao trio were to fuse. If anything, the original dragon is the past, and the past should be kept as the past. That's like saying GF should reveal to us what the original forms of Entei, Raikou, and Suicune looked like before they died and were reincarnated by Ho-Oh. That's the past.

Actually, the past forms of the legendary beasts would make great alternate formes, if it could somehow be explained why they are able to revert (assuming that they even had different forms before being revived).
But I see what you're saying... it's probably just a part of the story which will never even be obtainable, let alone revealed as to what it even looks like.

N's Puzzle Cube and the hologram of the Pokemon inside of it is speculated to be a part of this mystery.

Puzzle cube? Was it ever confirmed that that even is a puzzle cube? Sounds more like speculation... the cube looks like a Rubik's cube so people assume it is a puzzle cube. And what's this about a hologram?

Who decided to call them a trio the fans after all bulbapedia is a fan wiki so I believe calling them a trio in itself is a bit rash. Yes they look similar and have similar typing but Kyurem has two main body colors and they are completely seperate in revealed origin. Kyurem came from a meteor while the Plasma Duo came from another pokemon. Yes there is the Kyurem forms but we can't be sure it is cause by fusion. Hell we have Magneton but there is no fusion function in the game so why would they have one now.

It's possible that he's unrelated and he's just some alien that can shapeshift / mimic Reshiram and Zekrom for some reason, but I highly doubt it. It is stated that he came from a meteor... no idea how that plays into things but I still think they're related.
But I agree, I don't think fusion is going to be the way to change Kyurem to black Kyurem or white Kyurem... as there's no indication of that. However, if the original dragon makes an appearance at all then fusion will be needed, on Reshiram and Zekrom at least.

 

[Stratago]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Then explain why Black Kyurem and White Kyurem closely resembles Zekrom and Reshiram. They are related.

Not to mention their nearly identical movesets.

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

N's Puzzle Cube and the hologram of the Pokemon inside of it is speculated to be a part of this mystery.

Puzzle cube? Was it ever confirmed that that even is a puzzle cube? Sounds more like speculation... the cube looks like a Rubik's cube so people assume it is a puzzle cube. And what's this about a hologram?

The concept art for N's Puzzle Cube indicates that a) it is indeed a puzzle cube, and b) the core of the Puzzle Cube contains a projection of a Pokemon. I wrote a blog entry about it but it's a mess and I need to revise it a bit. u_u

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

Then explain why Black Kyurem and White Kyurem closely resembles Zekrom and Reshiram. They are related.

I still have a hard time swallowing that Kyurem was part of the original SINCE IT CAME FROM SPACE.


And we don't know how the forms are made and I already brought it up. Kyurem doesn't have to be from the first Dragon to absorb qualities from the others. Kyurem looks very different compared to the others and has a lower base stat total.


Kyurem could be the younger brother of the original dragon or the child. But if it came from space it didn't come from the original dragon

 

[Jun]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I support the concept of Wuji & Taiji.
There's another idea, Kyurem is a weapon made by the Ancien Civilisation to counter the Original Dragon. They wrote the Abyssal Ruin's prophecy, they saw the split with Zekrom & Reshiram, so they were able to create or summon a Pokemon who can absorbs both Zekrom & Reshiram's energy.

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I still have a hard time swallowing that Kyurem was part of the original SINCE IT CAME FROM SPACE.

Kyurem could be the younger brother of the original dragon or the child. But if it came from space it didn't come from the original dragon

Kyurem arriving from space is just an in-game myth. We don't have any official word on Kyurem's origins, so you can't rule out Kyurem being a part of the original dragon just yet.

 

[Rare Candy]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I didn't read all the posts, but I'll share my opinion.

BW2 might not finish the story of the dragons, maybe when the games are released, we learn that there's space for another Kyurem form (the perfect form), and since Ruby and Sapphire remakes are not about to happen, we can still expect Pokemon Grey.

I think it could work that way, it could also be some completely new Pokemon, the Original Dragon or whatever you might call it.

And don't tell me that it won't be compatible with BW1, the reason could be as simple as: "the original dragon wasn't known two years ago (in BW1), but we know about it now (bw2), therefore, you cannot trade it to BW1.

I think I've gone too far... xD

 

[Stratago]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

There's another idea, Kyurem is a weapon made by the Ancien Civilisation to counter the Original Dragon. They wrote the Abyssal Ruin's prophecy, they saw the split with Zekrom & Reshiram, so they were able to create or summon a Pokemon who can absorbs both Zekrom & Reshiram's energy.

Yay! A new idea!
That actually sounds awesome. I wish Pokemon would adopt more serious plot lines like this and become a REAL rpg...

And don't tell me that it won't be compatible with BW1, the reason could be as simple as: "the original dragon wasn't known two years ago (in BW1), but we know about it now (bw2), therefore, you cannot trade it to BW1.

That sort of thing hasn't happened since Gold & Silver... Actually, both times. Second gen pokemon couldn't be traded back to red/blue/yellow, & Spiky-ear Pichu can't be sent forward. I hope it turns out to be something like that.

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

BW2 might not finish the story of the dragons, maybe when the games are released, we learn that there's space for another Kyurem form (the perfect form), and since Ruby and Sapphire remakes are not about to happen, we can still expect Pokemon Grey.

Do you really think they'd bother with a third version now? After these sequels? Gamefreak did say that there wouldn't be a third version for Gen V.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

I still have a hard time swallowing that Kyurem was part of the original SINCE IT CAME FROM SPACE.

Kyurem could be the younger brother of the original dragon or the child. But if it came from space it didn't come from the original dragon

Kyurem arriving from space is just an in-game myth. We don't have any official word on Kyurem's origins, so you can't rule out Kyurem being a part of the original dragon just yet.

By that logic we can't believe that the twin heroes ever existed or that there is even such a thing as the original dragon, since those were legends too. So I highly doubt it was part of the original dragon. I mean it doesn't look that similar. I mean Zekrom has red and Reshiram has blue. Kyurem is also blue. Two blues wheres your wuji now.

 

[smalllady]

Re: "Perfect" Kyurem

By that logic we can't believe that the twin heroes ever existed or that there is even such a thing as the original dragon, since those were legends too. So I highly doubt it was part of the original dragon.

There's a difference between the rumors about Kyurem and the legend of the twin heroes.

The legend of the twin heroes was at the center of B/W's plot, and many characters throughout the game spoke of this legend. This legend is at the core of Unova's history. And after the player character awakens Reshiram/Zekrom, N states that Reshiram and Zekrom were once one being; the original dragon.

The rumors about Kyurem, however, are only mentioned in passing by a couple nameless NPCs. That's it. There are no other mentions of Kyurem or it's origins throughout the entire game. We simply don't know enough about Kyurem to rule anything out.

I mean it doesn't look that similar. I mean Zekrom has red and Reshiram has blue. Kyurem is also blue. Two blues wheres your wuji now.

Because you should always judge things based on their appearance.