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Mafia Persona 3 Mafia (13P) - Endgame MAFIA VICTORY

well, if you had gotten an useful cop check despite dying you wouldn't be able to sub back in, so maybe that was for the best lol

@Minish who did you target last night?

No one.
I'm 2x.
Which is why I think Helperman is likely town as well.
Besides the fact I think he's been playing townie.
But the 2x BG claim lines up with my role.
I don't know what to tell you. My read is by association, I scumread you because of your interactions with Caps.
There isn't much that you have done by yourself that is scummy other than your mild push on Minish and Mido (which I'm also guilty of).

I been very annoyed at him D1 due to seeing him as opportunistic and flipflopping and you always took his side or dismissed when I mentioned that it felt scummy.
When did I always take his side, though? I don't remember ever really defending Caps beyond when you started the theory of us being scumbuddies, when the closest I got to defending him was saying that I tend to agree with his thoughts in games a lot and that was what was happening. I'm literally rereading the thread right now trying to figure out what you're talking about on me taking his side because I don't remember that at all. If anything Midorikawa (1.0) took his side more, voting Lucy and liking some of his defense posts toward Lucy, as did beryl, around page 14, and later Potato. And two of those players were definitely town, and the other is likely town. I was one of the people who didn't want to vote Lucy from the get-go in D1, even though if I was Caps's partner, then I could have easily tried to push that wagon when it had several votes for most of the phase and was a slot that was suspicious of him.

Scum!Caps is kinda reasonable and unfortunately that means that sometimes I and others will end up agreeing with him, even if for the wrong reasons. The closest to a "defense" I gave of him then was when you started to say that he and I were a team, and that was because I was defending myself over an alleged scumteam that was built on pretty much a single "mindmeld" post that Caps didn't even push for a vote, so how much would we really have been working together?

Also, I know this is something I can't back up with facts other than knowing I'm not mafia, but Caps was probably trying to pocket me with that mindmeld post knowing that I often follow his logic.
Although I don't like this, as Mido has information that anyone else subbing into that slot shouldn't have
She doesn't have a result since apparently she tried copping caps
although I agree to a lesser degree cuz the very information that she had tried to cop caps is something that only the dead slot would've known
Let me just say this: my votes may not have always gone well, but I have tried very hard to not let my double vote cause problems and have been very upfront with that. I unvoted Potato late because I could tell he was saying he didn't have his role details and thus was likely town, and I unvoted Minish because I did not want a claimed doctor to die. I didn't want ties, and I didn't want to risk letting likely town die. Luci was the smart choice last phase in all the chaos because that was a wasted slot doing us no good and was the safest option given who all was present in-thread at the time to jump ship and save Minish. I considered Midorikawa and briefly voted her because - as I had been saying - I was suspicious of her for the last 1-2 phases and I know that looks bad, but I would've preferred that over Minish (doc) or Lucy (townread) at the time.

Not really much more I can say if my actual behavior isn't even what I'm being called out. It's a frustrating position to be tied to someone else when I know that I am town, but also understand that realistically, there's not a whole lot I can say to support that which isn't just "because I said so."


Realistically, based on claims and everything else, mafia has to be in the Abigail/Midori2.0, Torchic, Lissi, ExLight grouping because everyone else either has pretty solid, unCC'd claims or has softed them enough that they seem legit. ExLight would have been doing a super hard bus on Caps, and there was no reason for that as early as D1. So I think it's in the former 3.
Debunking rule being put into place here. Mido does not have any extra knowledge than everyone else. I did not give Mido any results to allow for the sub.
The fact that it is a visit is extra information, it could corroborate motion detecting results.
I'll look over TheCapsFan's ISO in a bit, as that should be a gold mine, especially as he probably wasn't expecting to go down
So looking in their earlygame, and ignoring any Potato tunneling:
That's what I like to hear. You can be in my town core.
First real read is beryllium in "towncore"
I don't think this is necessarily out of behavior or alignment indicative for Abigail, just a playstyle difference IMO.
Light defense of Abby
Feels a little bit...overreactive, I guess? Though it is your first game, so not really sure if I can take this with anything but a grain of salt.
Very weak push on Lissi
Ah, that makes more sense. I can see how you’d interpret it that way - however, I wasn’t attempting to make any excuses for FA; rather, I was expressing how I think your case on her is weak and your logic is faulty. Just like it is here by saying my “lack of creativity” is scum alignment indicative.

@FinalArcadia ayyy, nice mindmeld.
Appears to be defensive of FinalArcadia, though this can just as easily be pocketing

Terrible vote, based off playstyle clash and pretty much nothing else fmpov. Playstyle clash and disagreements in strategy does not mean the other person is auto scum.
Calls out Abby's/Mido's (I think) vote
Hmm, I'm gonna ask for thoughts on this.

VOTE: Torchic

Part PoE as I'd mentioned not long ago, but also in light of Caps's flip, I think there are some things that could be indicative of a team. When Caps called out the Lucy voters, he said Fitzy's post was the least bad of them. yeah i did too, but shhh Torchic was low in his readslist and generally mafia does include at least one teammate there, particularly veterans who understand that putting your whole team as townreads is a recipe for disaster if one of you gets caught. One of the players that ExLight specifically asked Torchic about was Caps along with me, and Torchic came back in-thread to answer Lissi's question about why she was suspicious, but did not answer ExLight's, just noting that they ought to get around to giving thoughts on us + Minish/Midori. Might be possible that the delay in answering that vs. the quick response to Lissi was because of not being sure what to say about a scumbuddy? The Lissi/Torchic interaction here - though minor - seems authentic, might imply the two are not a team if one of them actually is scum.
Continuing on:
This is blatantly false - I have been consistent in calling out you and Potato for having the most scummy votes in the game so far. I hadn't voted until now because I didn't feel I needed to, but given that the Potato wagon grew fast and I think Lucy is townie, it was more necessary from my point of view.

I tried to engage with Lucy and explain why I found her logic to be faulty and she responded snarkily, so I responded in kind. There was no shade being thrown, no votes being cast. The only "shade" I threw was that I thought she was being a little jumpy but then I even clarified saying that I can understand why she would act that way from her perspective of how the game should be "pushed forward."

And there's no shade with what I said about Mido either. Saying that someone's behavior has been NAI is not throwing shade. It was more out of surprise that Mido was one of the top townreads (higher than Lucy and FA specifically) when I didn't see anything good or bad from her.

I'm confused as to where I've used OMGUS? Are you talking about me turning Lucy's tidbit about FA's "lack of contributions" against her? Where I said that if someone has nothing to contribute, there's no reason for them to say anything? I stand by that.
Tunneling ExLight
Maybe try narrowing it down to the people who have votes on them at the moment. That might make things easier. What do you think about Potato, Lucy, Ex, and myself?
Directed salad at Lissi. Of this, Potato and I are town while TheCapsFan is a wolf. Maybe ExLight is just town here?
I don't mind the push on Minish. But I don't like putting the cart before the horse & trying to form worlds and having that be the substance for the vote. Would rather find a scum and then try to make connections rather than lynch based off potential connections, which I find to be less effective most of the time.
Hedging on Minish
I...really don't understand this vote. Like at all.
Doesn't "understand" helperman's vote on me
Thanks Mido! I knew something was off about TheCapsFan
...but i'm the guy who shot him...... :sadsola:

aaaaw i love seeing things go the way i expecteddddd
i'm as town as it gets. i took a bullet for that, and no matter which pretty little way the next one faces, that's all it takes to prove it.
haters stay jealous

anyway welcome back mido!
And for the rest:

Man, I don't have any scumreads right now.

Lucy and Beryl are town IMO, I trust Beryl's claim and Lucy has been towny throughout the game.

helperman is probably town because reasons despite the shitty vote.

Of the new players (not counting Lucy since she's got experience). Lissi is probably town. I was reading Torchic's slot as town before the sub-out and Torchic hasn't really done much, so that read's the same.

FA was leaning town for me - I agree with Mido's thoughts around connecting her to a Minish/Abigail pair to be a little...odd. And if I look at it from Mido's perspective I can see this being a scum!FA tactic in either a FA/Caps or FA/Ex world as she jumps on the new wagon and pushes suspicion even further away from her. Though, I think she would have little reason to do this overall in either of those worlds as it just draws attention to herself. And knowing that I am town the only world I really need to consider is FA/Ex, which is still possible (Ex's pairing of her with me yesterday could have been distancing), but unlikely IMO for two scum to jump on the same wagon that early in D2. So I think FA is probably more towny than not. That was a lot of words to basically just say "probably town." That was also probably poorly explained so let me know if I need to elaborate on that.

I was suspicious of Ex yesterday but his actions today are far townier than yesterday's so I'd lean him town.

Mido is pretty null at the moment. Minish has been null for me as well. Abigail I was slightly gutscumreading yesterday because their behavior seemed different to me from the other games I've played with them. But I can't put too much stock into that. And then Luci hasn't said anything all game, which makes her null.

Assuming three mafia, I'm fairly confident with two mafia in those bottom four with at least one between FA/Ex. Otherwise something is very wrong in my reads. But with no concrete scumreads it's difficult to judge where to vote. PoE will only get us so far before we end up in -Lo.
Says at least two wolves in Mido/Minish/Abby/Luci. Two of them flipped town, so we might have one in Minish/Abby. Also seems to switch their ExLight "read" on a dime.
Vote: Minish

of our options, this is the best one, I think.
Lands on Minish, who was far enough ahead that there is no reason to completely discount a bus.
shit, completely missed all of this. Nice pivot guys, shame we still got town, but honestly it was probably the lesser of two evils.

I was thinking about voting Luci because I thought that it was odd that literally no one was talking about them/bringing them up at all, but then I realized that mafia probably wanted that to be the case regardless of Luci's alignment, so it wasn't alignment indicative of Luci specifically that nobody was talking about her.

Taking Minish and Luci out of PoE I think I have something like this




Abigail's slot

Bringing Torchic down into immediate PoE since they are more null than Ex IMO.
Minish up, Torchic down. That seems a bit opportunistic, so I lean Torchic town.
Completely forgot about Helperman in the above list.

After Minish's claim, helper goes into PoE.
Forgot helperman. The fact that he forgot means that helperman wasn't a pertinent target in his mind.
I gave my thoughts on FA here:

It's not that she's low, persay - I think she's more likely town than not - it's more that I'm having trouble scumreading people, so she appears lower on the list.
Hedges on FinalArcadia.
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