Placeholder for Kyurem Forme in BW

[Silktree]

If third versions are sold less, then why do they still make them?

Prior to Platinum, third versions were Game Freak's way of adding features to an existing generation toward the end of the relevant handheld system's lifetime. The point wasn't to surpass the main versions, but rather to prevent the games from becoming stale during the wait for the following generation. Unlike with other games, the development of third versions only took around nine months, so no one can dispute that they generated profit.

With Platinum I would say that Game Freak started to get greedy considering they had two more sets of games planned for the DS, although certainly, the game didn't fail for that (perhaps because most people had no way of knowing how long they would have to wait for the next games). However, one could argue that if Game Freak took a few more months (during the two-year gap they make us wait anyway) to polish certain parts of the next Unova game, the new content would stand out more than the recycled one and this would result in higher sales. When people think of a sequel they're referring to a game that would use Black and White's engine, graphics and features (for the most part), but would at least offer a new or significantly extended adventure as opposed to a slightly revised one.

I was always under the assumption that the 3rd game was most popular. I know 2 guys who only buy the 3rd version as its complete, they dont bother with incomplete games. In the UK I saw a lot more hype over Platinum than Diamond and Pearl

The numbers speak for themselves - the ratio is noticeably more than 2:1 in favor of the main versions (this also applies to other generations). There are people who only buy the third version, but that is actually part of the problem: If the third version didn't share the bulk of its content with the main versions, more people would buy the main versions (one of them) as well as the third version.

 

[Keldeo94]

If third versions are sold less, then why do they still make them?

Prior to Platinum, third versions were Game Freak's way of adding features to an existing generation toward the end of the relevant handheld system's lifetime. The point wasn't to surpass the main versions, but rather to prevent the games from becoming stale during the wait for the following generation. Unlike with other games, the development of third versions only took around nine months, so no one can dispute that they generated profit.

With Platinum I would say that Game Freak started to get greedy considering they had two more sets of games planned for the DS, although certainly, the game didn't fail for that (perhaps because most people had no way of knowing how long they would have to wait for the next games). However, one could argue that if Game Freak took a few more months (during the two-year gap they make us wait anyway) to polish certain parts of the next Unova game, the new content would stand out more than the recycled one and this would result in higher sales. When people think of a sequel they're referring to a game that would use Black and White's engine, graphics and features (for the most part), but would at least offer a new or significantly extended adventure as opposed to a slightly revised one.

I was always under the assumption that the 3rd game was most popular. I know 2 guys who only buy the 3rd version as its complete, they dont bother with incomplete games. In the UK I saw a lot more hype over Platinum than Diamond and Pearl

The numbers speak for themselves - the ratio is noticeably more than 2:1 in favor of the main versions (this also applies to other generations). There are people who only buy the third version, but that is actually part of the problem: If the third version didn't share the bulk of its content with the main versions, more people would buy the main versions (one of them) as well as the third version.

But that massages the figures. That counts the first 2 together. Ok they sell more but by a very narrow margin. On average Diamond and Pearl would have each sold 8.5 million, Platinum sold 7.5 million, ok so it sold 1 million less.

What I find even more surprising is Platinum outselling HGSS individually, on average HeartGold and SoulSilver only sold 6 millon each, shocked that figure is so low.

In fact these figures look very bad for Nintendo, each game seems to be selling less than its predecesors.

Diamond and Pearl individually - 8.5m
Platinum - 7.5m
HGSS individually - 6m
Black and White individually - 5.5m

And if what you say is true Silktree that the 3rd version always seems to under sell compared to the other 2, does that mean that Gray may sell less than 5 million? Somewhere in the 4 million region?

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

But that massages the figures. That counts the first 2 together. Ok they sell more but by a very narrow margin. On average Diamond and Pearl would have each sold 8.5 million, Platinum sold 7.5 million, ok so it sold 1 million less.

What I find even more surprising is Platinum outselling HGSS individually, on average HeartGold and SoulSilver only sold 6 millon each, shocked that figure is so low.

In fact these figures look very bad for Nintendo, each game seems to be selling less than its predecesors.

Diamond and Pearl individually - 8.5m
Platinum - 7.5m
HGSS individually - 6m
Black and White individually - 5.5m

And if what you say is true Silktree that the 3rd version always seems to under sell compared to the other 2, does that mean that Gray may sell less than 5 million? Somewhere in the 4 million region?

Could this mean that Pokemon is slowly losing popularity just as the purists always wanted to happen?

 

[Silktree]

But that massages the figures. That counts the first 2 together. Ok they sell more but by a very narrow margin. On average Diamond and Pearl would have each sold 8.5 million, Platinum sold 7.5 million, ok so it sold 1 million less.

But the main versions shouldn't be counted separately; even Black and White have few differences to speak of, and so most people only buy one of the two versions. If Game Freak had merged Diamond and Pearl into one game, that game's sales wouldn't have been that far off from the combined sales of those games, unlike Platinum.

In fact these figures look very bad for Nintendo, each game seems to be selling less than its predecesors.

The figures are more or less what you would expect (at least I would). Black and White's sales have increased by a few millions since those numbers were revealed, and Platinum and HGSS were not brand new entries. I would not say that Platinum was more successful than HGSS because again, the sister versions should not be counted separately.

And if what you say is true Silktree that the 3rd version always seems to under sell compared to the other 2, does that mean that Gray may sell less than 5 million? Somewhere in the 4 million region?

Black and White will most likely reach 17 million copies eventually; it took about four years for Diamond and Pearl to get there. That said, I'll agree that the original prediction about Black and White outselling Diamond and Pearl was quite off.

 

[El_]

Isn't it too early for a Grey announcement? These things don't usually come till April/May. Kyurem's forme could be on the horizen though, possible as a silhouette on Pokemon Smash, but honestly I'm not expecting anything.

As for a sequel as opposed to a revision to BW, just how would that even work? How could you start a journey or new journey in a sequel? How would the capture of Reshiram/Zekrom, the choosing of your starter, your Pokemon in general, and their levels be handled?

I'm not against the idea of a sequel or anything, I'd just like to know how could it be implemented effectively. They have done sequels before like Pokemon XD to Colosseum, and Johto was a sequel to Kanto, but in both they had all new player characters to start their journey fresh.

 

[Silktree]

How could you start a journey or new journey in a sequel? How would the capture of Reshiram/Zekrom, the choosing of your starter, your Pokemon in general, and their levels be handled?

I think it's easy enough to come up with reasonable answers to those question, but that kind of discussion probably belongs in a blog. But about Reshiram and Zekrom, I'd like to note that if anything it would be harder to work with a third version as then Game Freak would have to retcon the story where N stayed with his chosen dragon. A sequel would make it possible for N to have parted ways with the dragon after a few years, staying true to Black and White's story.

They have done sequels before like Pokemon XD to Colosseum, and Johto was a sequel to Kanto, but in both they had all new player characters to start their journey fresh.

They could introduce new player characters, but it occurred to me that since the opposite-gender wasn't involved in Black and White's story (the Battle Subway does not count), this would allow Hilbert and Hilda to be used again in a sequel; the character you wouldn't play as would be the one referred to as the previous hero.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

They could introduce new player characters, but it occurred to me that since the opposite-gender wasn't involved in Black and White's story (the Battle Subway does not count), this would allow Hilbert and Hilda to be used again in a sequel; the character you wouldn't play as would be the one referred to as the previous hero.

Leaf wasn't used in HG/SS, when it's suppose to be a follow up to FR/LG.

 

[Silktree]

Leaf wasn't used in HG/SS, when it's suppose to be a follow up to FR/LG.

HGSS are remakes of Gold and Silver, which were sequels of Generation I where there was only one player character. But my point is simply that there is more than one way to handle a sequel.

 

[Keldeo94]

In fact these figures look very bad for Nintendo, each game seems to be selling less than its predecesors.

The figures are more or less what you would expect (at least I would). Black and White's sales have increased by a few millions since those numbers were revealed, and Platinum and HGSS were not brand new entries. I would not say that Platinum was more successful than HGSS because again, the sister versions should not be counted separately.

But HGSS should have been a riproaring success. There was such huge demand for it from across the fandom.

For the majority of Nintendo's target market, the 7 year olds to young teen, HGSS would have been a completely brand new game for them like DP and BW, so the sales figures should have been somewhere around the level expected of a brand new release. Then not to mention the old stalwarts like myself who bought one or more copies for pure nostalgia and love of the game. Sorry to be anecdotal but I know people who hadn't touched a Pokemon game for years but got HG or SS. Nintendo was basically selling to their current market, and their old long forgotten market who was with them in the early days, sales figures should have been the highest.

I think Nintendo are going to have to change the formula a bit. But at the same time, they don't want to further alienate die hard traditional fans who don't like big changes. I honestly thought HGSS were going to be the Pokemon's best sell for ages, but they didn't come close, nowhere near Diamond and Pearl.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

In fact these figures look very bad for Nintendo, each game seems to be selling less than its predecesors.

The figures are more or less what you would expect (at least I would). Black and White's sales have increased by a few millions since those numbers were revealed, and Platinum and HGSS were not brand new entries. I would not say that Platinum was more successful than HGSS because again, the sister versions should not be counted separately.

But HGSS should have been a riproaring success. There was such huge demand for it from across the fandom.

For the majority of Nintendo's target market, the 7 year olds to young teen, HGSS would have been a completely brand new game for them like DP and BW, so the sales figures should have been somewhere around the level expected of a brand new release. Then not to mention the old stalwarts like myself who bought one or more copies for pure nostalgia and love of the game. Sorry to be anecdotal but I know people who hadn't touched a Pokemon game for years but got HG or SS. Nintendo was basically selling to their current market, and their old long forgotten market who was with them in the early days, sales figures should have been the highest.

I think Nintendo are going to have to change the formula a bit. But at the same time, they don't want to further alienate die hard traditional fans who don't like big changes. I honestly thought HGSS were going to be the Pokemon's best sell for ages, but they didn't come close, nowhere near Diamond and Pearl.

The same people who wanted a G/S remake criticized the changes made in HG/SS (Lyra, grass, burned tower, etc), not to mention HG/SS still failed to fix the major flaws the originals suffered from (low-leveled wild Pokemon, poor gym leader roster, very few Johto Pokemon in their own region).

 

[Lufenium]

Can't say I'm all too surprised, but at least we know the 3rd version is most certainly on its way now.

Looking at Kyurem's physical appearance, it looks very jagged and broken, and one of it's wings will is much smaller than the other. Maybe it'll get bigger wings and appear more like a dragon in its new form.

 

[PC-Reviver]

Looking at Kyurem's physical appearance, it looks very jagged and broken, and one of it's wings will is much smaller than the other.

Well, what to you expect? Zekrom and Reshiram used to be one Pokémon, and when they split, they left a remainder behind, which is Kyurem. Also, it EATS HUMANS.
Of course it's broken. It's nowhere near it's true and ideal state. (See what I did there?)

 

[El_]

Oh please, Kyurem hasn't eaten anyone. Not a single official artwork nor anime movie scene so far has shown it with an open mouth. Its pretty obvious by this point, and hinted at in both his very own movepool & dex entries that his mouth is frozen shut.

This should have been expected anyways, Nintendo would never let that story of his be canon no matter how much the fans want it to be. Kyurem is simply misunderstood.

 

[PC-Reviver]

Kyurem hasn't eaten anyone.

The folklore in the game itself begs to differ.

Its pretty obvious by this point, and hinted at in both his very own movepool & dex entries that his mouth is frozen shut.

FROZEN shut, maybe. There is no evidence to disprove the idea that the beast ate people at some point in time.

 

[Zeb]

Oh please, Kyurem hasn't eaten anyone. Not a single official artwork nor anime movie scene so far has shown it with an open mouth. Its pretty obvious by this point, and hinted at in both his very own movepool & dex entries that his mouth is frozen shut.

Its movepool hints at nothing.

Dragonbreath - The user EXHALES a mighty gust that inflicts damage.
Glaciate - The user attacks by BLOWING freezing cold.. (although, blowing could be a form of wind etc)
Dragon Pulse - The user is attacked with a shock wave generated BY THE USER'S GAPING MOUTH.
Hyper Voice - Not even gonna explain this.
Echoed Voice.

Although, it doesn't learn Frost Breath, which is odd.

Its dex entries don't hint at much either.

White - It can produce ultracold air. Its body is frozen.
Black - It generates a powerful, freezing energy inside itself, but its body became frozen when the energy leaked out.

Apart from its body freezing, I don't see anything hint that its mouth specifically is frozen shut.

Also, basing it on movie scenes from the anime is fairly pointless since its movie hasn't even come out yet. And there isn't all that much artwork for it either.

Interesting theory, but I don't see much to base it on atm (apart from the lack of artwork with its mouth open which isn't all that strong in itself).

 

[Lufenium]

Looking at Kyurem's physical appearance, it looks very jagged and broken, and one of it's wings will is much smaller than the other.

Well, what to you expect? Zekrom and Reshiram used to be one Pokémon, and when they split, they left a remainder behind, which is Kyurem. Also, it EATS HUMANS.
Of course it's broken. It's nowhere near it's true and ideal state. (See what I did there?)

Where was it confirmed that Kyurem was the remains of Reshiram & Zekrom?

Kyurem crashed to earth in an icy meteor, causing the Giant Chasm according to this Bulbapedia entry.

 

[El_]

Its movepool hints at nothing.

Really?

At the same levels
Reshiram/Zekrom: FireFang/ThunderFang
Kyurem: Icy Wind

At the same levels
Reshiram/Zekrom: Crunch
Kyurem: Endeavor

Hypervoice can be explained because honestly its really just noise, and Kyurem has been heard making noises (but no mouth opening) in the trailers. Same for Echoed Voice, and Glaciate is something that I never really seen being like Ice Beam or coming from the mouth, and it looked like Glaciate is what Kyurem was using in the latest teaser trailer.

You do have a point with Dragonbreath/Pulse though, so I'll give you that. It could be a foresight though, certainly would not be the first time. Either way I really don't buy Kyurem's "origin" told by the villigers at all or that it ate people/Pokemon either, but only time can tell until we know the full story on Kyurem.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Oh snap again!
Nintendo to Announce a New Game Tomorrow – Pokemon? (February 21st, 2012)

 

[Keldeo94]

I disagree about it being on 3DS I think it will still be on regular DS. 3DS is rubbish, mine just won't turn on even after been on charge for 24 hours, its broken.

 

[Peachy]

I can't say I didn't see this coming. Sigh. Really Game Freak, really?