Preview Pocket Monsters Sun & Moon

[p0pp1i0D3f3nd3r]

I have seen pictures comparing the XY Ash and SM Ash already and they do look pretty significantly different, so I can understand the jarring sensation people get in that regard. Plus, with how much praise XY has gotten for its animation, especially during the past couple of months, something like a drastically different art style would probably create red flags for some people. I still kind of like it. I didn't notice it at first, but there are some shots where you can see Pikachu actually has fur. That's a nice detail.

One other thing about the outfit is that aside from the hat and maybe the shoes, it is kind of too similar to the male trainer's default outfit. It makes sense in a marketing sense and in regards to Ash not getting too hot in a warmer climate, but it does lack more of the unique twist they usually give Ash's new outfit. His outfits are always based on the new male trainer's outfit, but they're usually not nearly the same thing, so that's a bit odd, especially when I find the male trainer's default outfit to be too bland and generic. It will probably grow on me after awhile though.

But the Male Sun and Moon Trainer has a BLACK hat, NOT a Red one Like Ash does in
Pokemon the Series: Sun and Moon.

 

[novalysis]

[

From the looks of things. it just seems to be a school to learn about Alola's culture in general.
Going here is probably how people become Trial Captains or just professors in general which if that's the case it really makes you wonder why Ash is here to begin with since gradating won't benefit him much given they let him even accomplish that at all. This is all speculation but this trailer just raises more questions then it answers for those who're worried.

Assuming that both graduation and attending the school will not make sense is an assumption; as is the assumption that the school is about teaching little kids Alolan Culture.... True, it could be an assumption that you could make a case to support for using the trailer; but if it is actually possible to conceive of how graduation from the school might actually help Ash in his overall objectives in his journey between each and every season; then I think it's reasonable to make the point that it's possibly too early to panic right now. Which is what I set out to try to do - to show that none of the elements shown so far in the trailer necessarily guarantees the series would suck, even if the fanbase can easily conceive of how it opens the door for very stupid decisions on the part of the writers.

Just to quote another poster:

A short preview shouldn't get people up in arms like this... I mean we don't even know the full story just yet. Graduation could mean a ton and remember, this series at minimum has 3 years, it's not like they don't have something planned

Going to school doesn't necessarily mean a re-set. The thirty seconds doesn't necessarily mean the pitchforks need to come out because the thirty seconds guarantees a repeat of the beginning of B/W. There are ways the Ash in School plot can work while keeping Ash at XY levels of competency. So, I agree with Pokefan19 that there is no need to panic right now, yet.

That was why I put down an optimistic counter-theory to all the Doom and Gloom predictions and illustrate one way going to Alola can make sense for Ash at XY competency levels. There is a way to make going to School make sense, there is a way to make graduating benefit Ash. But if the school is a glorified Alola Poke-tech, then that more or less hints strongly at a hard-reset for Ash. While there's often dis-continuities between various versions of Ash; the only way for a non-reset Ash with his XY level of competency to actually benefit from Alola, is if it exposes him to trainers as good as Alain. Because at this stage, his only way to grow, assuming growth between regions is still occurring is to keep fighting with trainers on the level of Alain, or to mentor someone in the sense of Shota.

Of course, the trailer might mean that the writers have given up, and thrown Ash into school for basically utterly random and implausible reasons not even children continuing on to Sun and Moon will buy; as well as to try to compete with Yokai Watch, and change the genre to random disconnected slap-stick comedy while abandoning the myth arc of Ash seeking to become a Pokemon Master. My main objective was not so much to dismiss the worries, but rather point out that even the school-going plot does not necessarily guarantee those worries will definitely materialize. That it has stoked those worriers is understandable, but in actuality, the going to school plot CAN work even while keeping Ash's capability as a trainer consistent, and the one possible way it can work in that context is if Ash's class-mates are all veterans at his level. There are probably other ways besides my theory, where the show could avoid a re-set of Ash and still make the going to School to make sense even if the show was written for a child between 6 to 12, unless they are targeting the teletubbies demographic....

 

[technickal]

I feel like people are judging this series far too early. There was claims that this is "the second coming of BW" even before the trailer, and things like Z-Moves and Team Skull being introduced from the get-go actually point against it.

Also, while I was iffy about it at first, the art style is already starting to grow on me. It has a lot more personality, which I like. I know it's a pretty dramatic departure from XY, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

 

[jonathan keller]

Assuming that both graduation and attending the school will not make sense is an assumption; as is the assumption that the school is about teaching little kids Alolan Culture.... True, it could be an assumption that you could make a case to support for using the trailer; but if it is actually possible to conceive of how graduation from the school might actually help Ash in his overall objectives in his journey between each and every season; then I think it's reasonable to make the point that it's possibly too early to panic right now. Which is what I set out to try to do - to show that none of the elements shown so far in the trailer necessarily guarantees the series would suck, even if the fanbase can easily conceive of how it opens the door for very stupid decisions on the part of the writers.

Just to quote another poster:


Graduation doesn't necessarily mean re-set. The thirty seconds doesn't necessarily mean the pitchforks need to come out because the thirty seconds guarantees a repeat of the beginning of B/W. There are ways the Ash in School plot can work while keeping Ash at XY levels of competency. So, I agree with Pokefan19 that there is no need to panic right now, yet.

That was why I put down an optimistic counter-theory to all the Doom and Gloom predictions and illustrate one way going to Alola can make sense for Ash at XY competency levels. There is a way to make going to School make sense, there is a way to make graduating benefit Ash. But if the school is a glorified Alola Poke-tech, then that more or less hints strongly at a hard-reset for Ash. While there's often dis-continuities between various versions of Ash; the only way for a non-reset Ash with his XY level of competency to actually benefit from Alola, is if it exposes him to trainers as good as Alain. Because at this stage, his only way to grow, assuming growth between regions is still occurring is to keep fighting with trainers on the level of Alain, or to mentor someone in the sense of Shota.

Of course, the trailer might mean that the writers have given up, and thrown Ash into school for basically utterly random and implausible reasons not even children continuing on to Sun and Moon will buy; as well as to try to compete with Yokai Watch, and change the genre to random disconnected slap-stick comedy while abandoning the myth arc of Ash seeking to become a Pokemon Master. My main objective was not so much to dismiss the worries, but rather point out that even the school-going plot does not necessarily guarantee those worries will definitely materialize. That it has stoked those worriers is understandable, but in actuality, the going to school plot CAN work even while keeping Ash's capability as a trainer consistent, and the one possible way it can work in that context is if Ash's class-mates are all veterans at his level. There are probably other ways besides my theory, where the show could avoid a re-set of Ash and still make the going to School to make sense even if the show was written for a child between 6 to 12, unless they are targeting the teletubbies demographic....

The thing is why school? They literally made ash go to school so they can appeal to their younger audience more than anything, that's literally the only reason they chose school! They're are so many other thing they could choose form our demographic but they chose school, that definitely points to the series being pointed towards younger kids if anything! Whereas the XY and XYZ series was a reward for the older audience as it was more serious.

But now what i'm worried about is what you're teaching kids, are you teaching them "it's okay to keep failing school? Just keep trying!" or " If you keep failing to accomplish your life goal, that's okay just go back to school and try something else?"

But like i've said before. The series looks fun and i think it'll do a good job!

 

[Keshav]

The pokemon anime has so much potential that it can easily be the number one anime but they view it as a way of promoting their products...

 

[novalysis]

The thing is why school? They literally made ash go to school so they can appeal to their younger audience more than anything, that's literally the only reason they chose school! They're are so many other thing they could choose form our demographic but they chose school, that definitely points to the series being pointed towards younger kids if anything! Whereas the XY and XYZ series was a reward for the older audience as it was more serious.

I did mention that it is possible that the school isn't necessarily a normal school, and wrote an entire long post a few pages back how it could be possible. It could well be a specialized school with very small enrollment sizes designed to prepare aspiring Pokemon Masters who have demonstrated that they are in it for the long haul and have the potential to be one, and students who are very good veteran young trainers who have a hit a wall despite travelling and competing in multiple regions and doing very well in Leagues again and again. And by very good, I mean basically trainers of Alain or Ash tier, who have traveled multiple regions and participated in multiple tournaments. Which also might explain why Serena isn't going over too - she hasn't that level of experience Ash has that earned him an invite. It is, at this stage, a theory everybit as plausible as a hard-reset for Ash back to B/W levels of competency and the school being Aloha Poke-tech; and Mallow being a noob and Serena/Dawn/May clone.

Do keep in mind one additional more thing: High School anime settings are very popular among Japanese of our demographic age group in Japan.

 

[Jukain]

The matter is "Is it a goal that would end the character?" The answer is "It depends on how you look at it." What does one go to school for? To learn how to do a job. What job are we learning? We don't know. Not to mention we would have to know what kind of school this is and whether it is a specialty school or a regular school, where the goal is simply to gain what is deemed as common knowledge. A basis for everything else to stand on, or at least the minimum a job can require you to know. This shoots the entire premise in the water already since Ash already knows everything anyone could possibly know about being a pokemon trainer. However, this could be advanced training as well. This could be treated like Orange and this is learning how to be a trainer all over again, or we can still be doing that, but with the prospect of it meaning a higher placement as a trainer. The latter is one that they could possibly make him fail at since the only thing he hasn't achieved is getting to the Champion League. If they can qualify him for that, then they will obviously make him fail. For changing the premise entirely, it will depend on what the premise is. Again, with what the goal of education is. That by itself could mean that he will fail, as to prevent any resolution to his character. Finding one's place in life, I would count as a resolution. However, we can also see this as just a little kid's school and of course it isn't the end. We could theoretically do this over and over until the end of time, assuming no time ever passes, as it apparently doesn't even as is. There are two ways this can be done: either to never have an end at all, the schooling just keeps on going in the same classroom until the end of time, or we can just outright fail and be held back indefinitely.

 

[novalysis]

The latter is one that they could possibly make him fail at since the only thing he hasn't achieved is getting to the Champion League. If they can qualify him for that, then they will obviously make him fail. For changing the premise entirely, it will depend on what the premise is. Again, with what the goal of education is. That by itself could mean that he will fail, as to prevent any resolution to his character.

Actually, getting into the Champions league does not resolve anything about Ash's character nor grant him his long run goal being a Master. At most, it represents tangible progress towards that goal, a progress as tangible and illusory as the Battle Frontier. Winning the Champions League will be resolution. Getting into it is only progress and a break from the status quo of being stuck in regular regional leagues. And at a broader level, this is why it was both disappointing that the anime did not choose to let Ash win the Kalos League, and it is quite irritating to see the myth that Ash winning a Pokemon League tournament guarantees the end of his journey. He could easily win a Pokemon league, or qualify for the Champions League only to get slaughtered at the Elite Four level just to show how much further he has to go to attain his dreams. So no, Champions League does not have to end Ash's character necessarily.

The only question then is whether the writers will ever change the status quo that has been in place since as far back as Battle-frontier if not Johto - and they can change the Status quo - but that would require them to ensure every major battle Ash goes through from here on out is the level of the Frontier Brains at minimum, or Alain/Shota. If it means no more Cameroon BS once and for all, that's a good thing. They can do this. They have done this in the past, arguably with Battle-frontier. Whether they want to is another question, and whether it risk continuity lockout is another.

I do agree with you fully that the good starting point is to ask: well, what is the goal of the education Ash is suppose to get? Is the school a normal school teaching trainers very elementary ideas about being a trainer or Aloha culture, or could it be actually a specialist school for aspiring Masters who have demonstrated that they are credible prospects for such a status in the future, teaching these trainers a very specialized set of advanced knowledge? Depending on the answer, we get Battle Frontier II or a repeat of Black and White II. The fear I think, is based on the art-style and thirty seconds of Ash being goofy, is that the direction is Black and White II meets Yokai Watch and not Battle Frontier /Orange Islands II.

The counter to that is to think about this: what kind of School might Ash be enthusiastic about graduating like no-one ever has from? Given his long term goal to be a Pokemon Master, the simplest answer would be a school that teaches him the skills needed to eventually gain that Mastership, over and above what he can get from simply travelling region after region. Perhaps for Ash, Alain shows that Ash has hit a hard wall with regards to just how far he can progress to his goal without a further, more formal education towards being a Master.

That doesn't require much thought, so even if the writers aren't putting much thought into this, this is probably the easiest justification even the laziest of writers would give that would be plausible even for a child that explains why Ash chooses to go to School rather than keep journeying. And they aren't going to ditch Ash's long run goal of being a Pokemon Master. in all probability; ever. The moment that happens is the day the show is over.

The other alternative is to cynically say: since when do the writers ever cared about plausibility or put thought into the plot? But then, we might as well not even speculate then, since there's no way to have meaningful discussions over speculations other than knee jerk reactions and brainstorming the number of ways Sun and Moon can be shitty.

I think is more productive speculation wise to consider how such a plot of Ash going to school can be reasonably justified rather than simply concluding based on thirty seconds of a trailer:
Ash is going to School -> The trailer is goofy and childish -> Ash is going to be Reset to B/W level Noob -> Sun and Moon Anime is toddler pandering thrash with no sense of logic or coherence but just random Lolz for young babies. Which I am not wrong, seems to be what most of the pessimistic arguments and prophecies of doom are based out of. Other than goofy art style, nothing in the trailer shows why we should think that the pessimistic possibility of Sun and Moon is just as plausible as an optimistic view.

 

[Pokefan19]

I have to figure Rowlet's line has some pretty good speed given the Flying typing (Although some Grass types have been notoriously fast as well) but I wonder if it's more of a Special Attacker or a Physical Attacker...

 

[Misty-Moo]

Thank you for providing the old Youtube link of first XY trailer for comparison. It just further affirm my opinion that SM will be sucks.

Don't you see, that although XY trailer didn't provide much information, only Ash arrived in Kalos and the three GenVI starters, but the overall atmosphere was there. Ash was determined to do great things in Kalos, and show a excited yet mature expression upon arrival. It matches with the overall tone and atmosphere of the whole XY and XY&Z saga.

Whereas the SM saga trailer atmosphere is just... goofy and flappy, telling me this is not an adventure show, but just slapstick comedy for laughing.

I'm sorry, but where are you getting "goofy and flappy" from? Or making the assumption that it's going to be slapstick comedy, for that matter? Is it the art style?

Let's break down the Sun/Moon trailer scene-by-scene -
Ash runs away from a large bear-like Pokemon - who wouldn't?
Team Skull appear, then it cuts to a battle scene with Ash & Pikachu looking serious. Admittedly, those scenes may or not be connected, but it still shows there's going to be action.
Yes, then there's the school sequence with Ash meeting his new friends and being his usual less-that-genius self. He's in a new region where things are done completely differently, he would need to learn about it.
Ash & Pikachu perform a Z-move, again with serious expressions.
They run down a beach, I can't really see Ash's expression, but Pikachu looks serious.
They meet Popllio in what looks like a swimming pool, then have fun in an island paradise on the back of a Sharpedo.

Nothing shows that there is going to any significant change apart from the characters looking different.

 

[Jukain]

I am aware of this argument, but apparently, it's not how the marketing department sees it. They think winning the region tournament is an end. I know it isn't, but if you think about it, it might as well be. So you've beaten the league tournament and now we know he is capable of it. This makes all other attempts to do it pointless since we already know he can do it. Just defeating one of the Elite Four? They could drag that out more, but judging from what happened in X/Y, I think that barrier is fairly pointless since they're barely more powerful than the Mega trainers themselves. Take that with a grain of salt, though, since the Frontier Brains were also supposed to be the same power as Elites, and that never amounted to anything. I also question why everyone thinks if you fail against just one of them that you have to start ALL OVER. That is just unnecessary. If it's a different league, yes, you have to qualify for it all over again, but to expect people to go through all of that again just for another try at the same Elite is just ludicrous. The best option for me is that they just keep going until they win. So you win against one Champion? On to the next one? And beyond? WE WOULD ALREADY KNOW YOU CAN DO IT.

 

[novalysis]

So you win against one Champion? On to the next one? And beyond? WE WOULD ALREADY KNOW YOU CAN DO IT.

Pokemon world tournament against every regional champion in the world. And show you can defend that title repeatedly.

 

[Pokefan19]

Pokemon world tournament against every regional champion in the world. And show you can defend that title repeatedly.

Missed opportunity for that... BW2 was years ago

 

[novalysis]

Missed opportunity for that... BW2 was years ago

It was a missed opportunity the moment they decided to soft-reset Ash for Unnova...

 

[Jaye]

Don't you see, that although XY trailer didn't provide much information, only Ash arrived in Kalos and the three GenVI starters, but the overall atmosphere was there. Ash was determined to do great things in Kalos, and show a excited yet mature expression upon arrival. It matches with the overall tone and atmosphere of the whole XY and XY&Z saga.

I'm nitpicking here but that is not an excited yet mature expression. That's a confident expression... which transitions to him shouting at the top of his lungs before falling down the stairs. Which does actually match the tone of XY, but not XY&Z - they both have a different tone.

I feel like I'm going to be saying this a lot but Ash wasn't mature in XY in the way people seem to think maturity is. Competent battler, yes, but otherwise very much the same he always was. And do people really think Ash is going to rock up in Alola with the intent of doing anything but great things, whatever it may be?

 

[Hidden Mew]

The pokemon anime has so much potential that it can easily be the number one anime but they view it as a way of promoting their products...

That's because it does exist primarily to promote the games. I agree that the series does have potential that often falls by the wayside fro various reasons, but acting as if it's so awful that they see it just as a way to promote their products is a bit odd to me. The anime wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for the popularity and success of the games.

I'm nitpicking here but that is not an excited yet mature expression. That's a confident expression... which transitions to him shouting at the top of his lungs before falling down the stairs. Which does actually match the tone of XY, but not XY&Z - they both have a different tone.

I feel like I'm going to be saying this a lot but Ash wasn't mature in XY in the way people seem to think maturity is. Competent battler, yes, but otherwise very much the same he always was. And do people really think Ash is going to rock up in Alola with the intent of doing anything but great things, whatever it may be?

I think people considered Ash more mature in XY compared to how he was in BW, but I'm not sure if I'd call him more mature. A more competent battler and less of an idiot than he was in BW, but that doesn't necessarily mean mature either. I think that people are just too worried about a repeat of BW Ash, even though nothing in the SM trailer gives that impression. If anything, he comes off as more comical in the XY teaser trailer with announcing himself right when he got in Kalos and falling down the stairs afterwards. The art style here is different and jarring, but Ash doesn't really have any moments here that put him in a more comical light. People are just really not willing to give the series a chance if they want to judge it completely by a thirty second trailer.

 

[Shoutmon]

Trailer was pretty boring. Nice animation but nothing show was interesting. A downgrade of the XY trailer for sure.

 

[GoldenUmi]

The trailer makes me highly wary. The animation and art style they're suddenly switching to looks like some American saturday cartoon and it's really cringe worthy. But I plan to at least give the series 10 episodes to impress me before giving up.

 

[jonathan keller]

The trailer makes me highly wary. The animation and art style they're suddenly switching to looks like some American saturday cartoon and it's really cringe worthy. But I plan to at least give the series 10 episodes to impress me before giving up.

I'd say give it at least 20. The first 10 episodes may just be setting things up, then the tone could totally switch. I'd say 20 is a fair amount

 

[GoldenUmi]

I guess it takes a while for Pokemon series to get into the swing of things sometimes so I'd agree that's a fair amount.