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Poke Transporter (Transfering Pokemon From Previous Gens)

The Professor
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Transporter and Bank will both be free for about a month. Transfer your guys then and don't worry about paying the absurdly high .42 cents US Currency per month those pirates at Game Freak are trying to gouge you with.

Sarcasm aside, anyone else get the feeling that the Pokemon Bank was created in part as a response the rampant amount of hacking and Pokemon editing programs out there? That this is their way of filtering out all those hacked mons to try and keep Gen VI free that kind of stuff?
 
New Member
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No, the reason for bank/transport has been clearly stated. I think some people have this mistaken notion that Game Freak cares a lot about hacking when their actions don't really support that. Nintendo only cares in as far that some 3rd party devices can be used for piracy. They don't really care about people just generating cheat codes for their legally purchased games.
 
Bringing the Thunder
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I doubt it, if they don't understand now chances are they never will. We've all tried explaining that it needed to be done, however their thoughts are their thoughts. It is a shame GameFreak has to be targeted in a negative manner just because they cannot attempt to understand why Gamefreak has done what they've done.
It's not about the reasoning why Game Freak did it, the consumer doesn't really care about that. What matters to the consumer is the end result, and in this case the end result looks like some sort of Day 1 DLC type system. It's unfortunate that Game Freak is made to look like a greedy company in this scenario, but this isn't exactly a consumer friendly solution.
 
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Do we actually KNOW that we need Pokemon Bank for the transporter?
 
Step into my crib everything smell like Cool Water
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I doubt it, if they don't understand now chances are they never will. We've all tried explaining that it needed to be done, however their thoughts are their thoughts. It is a shame GameFreak has to be targeted in a negative manner just because they cannot attempt to understand why Gamefreak has done what they've done.
It's not about the reasoning why Game Freak did it, the consumer doesn't really care about that. What matters to the consumer is the end result, and in this case the end result looks like some sort of Day 1 DLC type system. It's unfortunate that Game Freak is made to look like a greedy company in this scenario, but this isn't exactly a consumer friendly solution.
That's only your opinion that Gamefreak looks Greedy. They do not look greedy at all to me and they don't look greedy to most others on this site.

I present you with a scenario. You've just managed to create a new 3DS app. This app is intended to be long term, something people can continuously use and enjoy, while you provide all the updates and server maintenance in order to keep it as perfect as possible. Are you telling me that you would not charge anyone an annual fee in order to raise the funds needed to be able to make all those necessary updates and server maintenance?
 
Bringing the Thunder
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That's only your opinion that Gamefreak looks Greedy. They do not look greedy at all to me and they don't look greedy to most others on this site.

I present you with a scenario. You've just managed to create a new 3DS app. This app is intended to be long term, something people can continuously use and enjoy, while you provide all the updates and server maintenance in order to keep it as perfect as possible. Are you telling me that you would not charge anyone an annual fee in order to raise the funds needed to be able to make all those necessary updates and server maintenance?
I get that. I'm saying that, ignoring all of the technical and financial problems, it does look greedy.
 
Eevee Breeder
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3.5 million registered users of Pokémon Global Link @ $5 each = $17.5 million.

Each Pokémon takes up about 136 bytes, and you can store 3,000 of them in the Bank = 400kB for each user.

3.5 million users with 400kB of data each = 1.3TB storage required.

Those are the numbers. You can interpret that as you wish.
 
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I get that. I'm saying that, ignoring all of the technical and financial problems, it does look greedy.
Of course ignoring the circumstances in which someone asks for money can make them look greedy, that's why you shouldn't ignore it. Though really, if the end result is bad press because of $5/year in comparison to all other companies with actual DLC (since this is more similar to Pokemon Ranch) or a repeat of the fiasco in the transition between Gen II to III, Game Freak obviously chose the lesser of two evils here. Not that I can't understand why a limited app with a storage capacity of 6 Pokemon can't be done.

Though I do have a question on the 3DS/DS wireless communication thing. So DS game to DS game wireless works perfectly even if you're using a 3DS, but apparently DS to 3DS game doesn't? How does that happen?

But, veering away from this topic, I was thinking of something:

It would be incredibly time consuming for Game Freak to create remakes upon remakes of every game, so the obvious solution would be to have the old games available as eShop games. However, what if the old RBY/GSC/RSE games were modified to be able to communicate with Pokemon Bank and Transporter? From RBY to GSC, Game Freak had to figure out creating an entire new stat and some Pokemon even had held items. Perhaps they can just take the bare minimum of what they can from the old games (i.e., Trainer ID, OT, species, moves) and randomly generate the new values on the Poke Bank servers based on the values the Pokemon currently has. That way we can have true cross-gen compatibility, and gives us an incentive to play old games without fear of our Pokemon not communicating with each other.
 
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That's only your opinion that Gamefreak looks Greedy. They do not look greedy at all to me and they don't look greedy to most others on this site.

I present you with a scenario. You've just managed to create a new 3DS app. This app is intended to be long term, something people can continuously use and enjoy, while you provide all the updates and server maintenance in order to keep it as perfect as possible. Are you telling me that you would not charge anyone an annual fee in order to raise the funds needed to be able to make all those necessary updates and server maintenance?
I get that. I'm saying that, ignoring all of the technical and financial problems, it does look greedy.
No, it doesn't at all. I can't understand why you understand that they NEED to charge an annual fee and still think they appear greedy, it just makes no sense at all. That is the exact same as saying you are greedy for working just to make money even though you'd need it to survive. You may need money to pay for bills, car registrations, petrol, mortgages, if not now, than in the future, but you'll still be greedy for needing the money.

And given the fact that you 'understood my scenario', I'd assume that you too would charge the fee in order to maintain your own app, which would mean, in your own words and thoughts, that you yourself, is greedy.
 
Bringing the Thunder
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Of course ignoring the circumstances in which someone asks for money can make them look greedy, that's why you shouldn't ignore it. Though really, if the end result is bad press because of $5/year in comparison to all other companies with actual DLC (since this is more similar to Pokemon Ranch) or a repeat of the fiasco in the transition between Gen II to III, Game Freak obviously chose the lesser of two evils here. Not that I can't understand why a limited app with a storage capacity of 6 Pokemon can't be done.
Yeah, but I guess this was pretty much a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for them when it comes to consumer feedback on the transfer.

It would be incredibly time consuming for Game Freak to create remakes upon remakes of every game, so the obvious solution would be to have the old games available as eShop games. However, what if the old RBY/GSC/RSE games were modified to be able to communicate with Pokemon Bank and Transporter? From RBY to GSC, Game Freak had to figure out creating an entire new stat and some Pokemon even had held items. Perhaps they can just take the bare minimum of what they can from the old games (i.e., Trainer ID, OT, species, moves) and randomly generate the new values on the Poke Bank servers based on the values the Pokemon currently has. That way we can have true cross-gen compatibility, and gives us an incentive to play old games without fear of our Pokemon not communicating with each other.
I don't think this would work for making older generations compatible with current ones because IVs in 2nd gen determined a lot of other things such as gender and shininess, plus simply translating a Pokemon's existing IVs into the newer generations would probably cause a lot of wonky stat distributions due to the major differences between 1st and 2nd gen and 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen IV calculations. So I don't think they could make this work even with the technical restrictions removed, the formula differences are just too drastic. It's all right though, since they can just put FRLG and HGSS on the eShop and then you wouldn't be missing much from the original games.

Also, because of the lack of trading capabilities between games, you would need to be able to send Pokemon from Bank to the older games, as otherwise you would not be able to complete the Pokedex in any games. But if they can find a way to get past that, then yeah, I'm all for it.

No, it doesn't at all. I can't understand why you understand that they NEED to charge an annual fee and still think they appear greedy, it just makes no sense at all.
Because they're taking something that was originally in game and putting it into a paid add on, that looks a lot like what other companies do with DLC. All of these problems such as incompatibility between DS and 3DS games and the costs of cloud based storage are things that the average consumer is oblivious to, all they have to go on is the final product.
 
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I don't think this would work for making older generations compatible with current ones because IVs in 2nd gen determined a lot of other things such as gender and shininess, plus simply translating a Pokemon's existing IVs into the newer generations would probably cause a lot of wonky stat distributions due to the major differences between 1st and 2nd gen and 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen IV calculations. So I don't think they could make this work even with the technical restrictions removed, the formula differences are just too drastic. It's all right though, since they can just put FRLG and HGSS on the eShop and then you wouldn't be missing much from the original games.
That's why I suggested taking the values that do work and then randomly generating the rest of them. Just ignore the ones that can't possibly be translated, and just re-create them as closely as possible. If I recall, the IV values were from 0 - 15 in Gen I/II. They could get around it by randomly doubling IV's so that it matches the current 0 to 31 spreads more closely. As for the gender values, I'd assume they know GSC's old formula. Figure out the gender based on that, but then assign the corresponding personality value when translated to a Gen VI game. Like I said, just take the bare minimums based on what can be obviously read, and recalculate them.

But yeah, they could always just release only Gen III games and then they won't have an issue since theoretically, we can take Pokemon all the way from RSE to XY.
 
Step into my crib everything smell like Cool Water
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Yeah, but I guess this was pretty much a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario for them when it comes to consumer feedback on the transfer.

It would be incredibly time consuming for Game Freak to create remakes upon remakes of every game, so the obvious solution would be to have the old games available as eShop games. However, what if the old RBY/GSC/RSE games were modified to be able to communicate with Pokemon Bank and Transporter? From RBY to GSC, Game Freak had to figure out creating an entire new stat and some Pokemon even had held items. Perhaps they can just take the bare minimum of what they can from the old games (i.e., Trainer ID, OT, species, moves) and randomly generate the new values on the Poke Bank servers based on the values the Pokemon currently has. That way we can have true cross-gen compatibility, and gives us an incentive to play old games without fear of our Pokemon not communicating with each other.
I don't think this would work for making older generations compatible with current ones because IVs in 2nd gen determined a lot of other things such as gender and shininess, plus simply translating a Pokemon's existing IVs into the newer generations would probably cause a lot of wonky stat distributions due to the major differences between 1st and 2nd gen and 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen IV calculations. So I don't think they could make this work even with the technical restrictions removed, the formula differences are just too drastic. It's all right though, since they can just put FRLG and HGSS on the eShop and then you wouldn't be missing much from the original games.

Also, because of the lack of trading capabilities between games, you would need to be able to send Pokemon from Bank to the older games, as otherwise you would not be able to complete the Pokedex in any games. But if they can find a way to get past that, then yeah, I'm all for it.

No, it doesn't at all. I can't understand why you understand that they NEED to charge an annual fee and still think they appear greedy, it just makes no sense at all.
Because they're taking something that was originally in game and putting it into a paid add on, that looks a lot like what other companies do with DLC. All of these problems such as incompatibility between DS and 3DS games and the costs of cloud based storage are things that the average consumer is oblivious to, all they have to go on is the final product.
No, that's not all they have to go on at all. It has been officially stated that Gen V and VI is unable to communicate with each other, and it has been stated they need the funds in order to maintain it. It's not hard to find these sorts of statements online and if someone missed it, that's not Gamefreak's problem, it's their own.

And clearly you aren't oblivious to any of this, so why you feel the need to refer to the company as greedy, is beyond me.
 
This is the Monado's power!
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No, it doesn't at all. I can't understand why you understand that they NEED to charge an annual fee and still think they appear greedy, it just makes no sense at all.
Because they're taking something that was originally in game and putting it into a paid add on, that looks a lot like what other companies do with DLC. All of these problems such as incompatibility between DS and 3DS games and the costs of cloud based storage are things that the average consumer is oblivious to, all they have to go on is the final product.
I'm "the average consumer", and while I was oblivious to the costs of cloud-based storage, I followed this thread (and the Bank thread), read all of the arguments - both good and stupid (not mentioning which ones, but they should be fairly obvious) - and learned that what they're charging yearly isn't that big of a thing to complain about even though it was in previous games for "free" (which, considering that you need two DSs to do Gen IV to Gen V transfers yourself and if you didn't have a second or someone to help you do just that, it costs at minimum today the price of a used DS Lite from stores like GameStop). So, yeah, I am perfectly fine with paying them $5 a year for that, as if I do a lot of breeding just trying to get a Pokémon with a certain ability or gender and don't get that on the first go, I have somewhere to put them so I have room in my boxes without randomly shuffling them around. Due to how many Pokémon I got in White 2 just from Dream Radar, which only recently got whittled down to a few Bronzor (which, considering that I had nearly a full box of them and I'm now down to less than half a box, yeah, that's a few Bronzor) and how many I got now just trying to breed DWFs to trade for non-legendaries to complete my National dex, I would have gladly paid for that service now for all of the extras I've got. I mean, up to 3000 Pokémon stored for only a measly five bucks a year? As a Zelda fan, just let me say...

Shut up and take my rupees!
 
Bringing the Thunder
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That's why I suggested taking the values that do work and then randomly generating the rest of them. Just ignore the ones that can't possibly be translated, and just re-create them as closely as possible. If I recall, the IV values were from 0 - 15 in Gen I/II. They could get around it by randomly doubling IV's so that it matches the current 0 to 31 spreads more closely. As for the gender values, I'd assume they know GSC's old formula. Figure out the gender based on that, but then assign the corresponding personality value when translated to a Gen VI game. Like I said, just take the bare minimums based on what can be obviously read, and recalculate them.
Again, randomizing the stats would be too wonky, you could breed a Pokemon with perfect IVs in the older games, end up transferring it to Bank, and then it could be ruined because it happened to get one bad stat from its transfer. And then when you want to transfer it back, you'd have to be able to reverse those changes. It would all be really messed up, which is why they should either rework the system or not bother remaking the originals.
 
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Technically, I doubt any person who goes on Pokemon forums regularly can be considered an "average consumer"....with that said, the "average consumer" aka the parents of young children, probably don't even know that it was free to transfer Pokemon from one generation to the next. If anything, they won't buy Pokemon Bank because its of its incredibly specific use and tell their child "But aren't your Pokemon already in your game?" I doubt most parents have any issues buying DLC considering the current gaming atmosphere, and judging by the many kids with iPads, parents aren't incapable of buying online games.

@Akira Bond;
How are the DS and 3DS games not able to communicate? The DS games can communicate even when one is used on a 3DS, so I'm wondering why that's suddenly different for a 3DS to DS game.

Again, randomizing the stats would be too wonky, you could breed a Pokemon with perfect IVs in the older games, end up transferring it to Bank, and then it could be ruined because it happened to get one bad stat from its transfer. And then when you want to transfer it back, you'd have to be able to reverse those changes. It would all be really messed up, which is why they should either rework the system or not bother remaking the originals.
Or they could just work with Gen III/IV era games if its too problematic. At the same time, I'm not really sure the competitive battling demographic for Gen I/II-type games would be large enough for that to be a major concern. I mean, how many people still play the Gen III or IV meta-game? There isn't even breeding in Gen I.

And what do you mean transfer back? I mean using the Pokemon Transporter to store it to the bank for transfer to Gen VI. I doubt there's backwards transfers in this scenario.
 
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Step into my crib everything smell like Cool Water
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Technically, I doubt any person who goes on Pokemon forums regularly can be considered an "average consumer"....with that said, the "average consumer" aka the parents of young children, probably don't even know that it was free to transfer Pokemon from one generation to the next. If anything, they won't buy Pokemon Bank because its of its incredibly specific use and tell their child "But aren't your Pokemon already in your game?" I doubt most parents have any issues buying DLC considering the current gaming atmosphere, and judging by the many kids with iPads, parents aren't incapable of buying online games.

@Akira Bond;
How are the DS and 3DS games not able to communicate? The DS games can communicate even when one is used on a 3DS, so I'm wondering why that's suddenly different for a 3DS to DS game.[
I won't even pretend to understand why they are unable to communicate, because I honestly have no idea. I've no idea how Gamefreak had gotten themselves into that situation, however, they did, and fortunately, they've found an alternative way around that problem. This solution is long term, which Gamefreak plans to use for the future as well as the present, so we no longer have to worry about the possibility of not being able to transfer our Pokemon coming up once more anytime soon.
 
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I won't even pretend to understand why they are unable to communicate, because I honestly have no idea. I've no idea how Gamefreak had gotten themselves into that situation, however, they did, and fortunately, they've found an alternative way around that problem. This solution is long term, which Gamefreak plans to use for the future as well as the present, so we no longer have to worry about the possibility of not being able to transfer our Pokemon coming up once more anytime soon.
That's making me think the reason they can't communicate directly is because the data is too different, so the Bank is being used to compensate by "translating" the Pokemon's data to something Gen VI can accept. Maybe this means they changed how stats are calculated?
 
Step into my crib everything smell like Cool Water
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I won't even pretend to understand why they are unable to communicate, because I honestly have no idea. I've no idea how Gamefreak had gotten themselves into that situation, however, they did, and fortunately, they've found an alternative way around that problem. This solution is long term, which Gamefreak plans to use for the future as well as the present, so we no longer have to worry about the possibility of not being able to transfer our Pokemon coming up once more anytime soon.
That's making me think the reason they can't communicate directly is because the data is too different, so the Bank is being used to compensate by "translating" the Pokemon's data to something Gen VI can accept. Maybe this means they changed how stats are calculated?
That's one possibility. I would enjoy if Gamefreak told us the reason, however I doubt they have any current plans on releasing information about something that now no longer matters a great deal.

I for one, am just happy that my living dex shall live on, along with my collection of Shiny Pokemon. I'm also grateful I can transfer my current Pokemon team over as well.
 
Bringing the Thunder
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At the same time, I'm not really sure the competitive battling demographic for Gen I/II-type games would be large enough for that to be a major concern. I mean, how many people still play the Gen III or IV meta-game? There isn't even breeding in Gen I.
There would be no competitive scene in the older games because there's inherent problems with being able to trade and battle between games. But someone might want to use their Pokemon competitively after beating the game and transferring to the current gen.

And what do you mean transfer back? I mean using the Pokemon Transporter to store it to the bank for transfer to Gen VI. I doubt there's backwards transfers in this scenario.
I was operating under the assumption that there would be some way to transfer your Pokemon back to main games (which might necessitate another transfer app). The reason why being that being able to use Bank for transfers between past gens like you can with X and Y solves the problem of no trading between older games, a major barrier to having older games on the eShop. Either that or have a completely separate Bank app for past gen games, but considering that they want Bank to be universally accessible to all future games, I doubt they'd want to do that.
 
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