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SPECULATION: Pokedex Update

Bolt the Cat

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Meh, this is the first time I couldn't really care less about a dex expansion. Alola's dex issues are super exaggerated and more because of bad distribution than too few Pokemon, the actual Pokemon available were pretty satisfying. Past dex expansions have been to fix actual deficiencies in the variety, not just to add more Pokemon to the areas. Platinum fixed issues with type variety (such as DP infamously only having 1 non-starter Fire type in the dex), BW2 added old Pokemon back into the game when BW had just new Pokemon. People that have been pushing for dex expansions in remakes like ORAS or potential Kanto sequels can point towards similar variety issues to DP. But Alola? Alola doesn't have any of those problems. It has a little more 1st gen Pokemon and a little less new Pokemon, but that's about it and I don't expect a dex expansion to fix that issue. So a dex expansion of old Pokemon doesn't really excite me in this game. It's just throwing in a bunch of old Pokemon that I could've used in another game if I wanted but decided not to. Not exactly a game changer at this point.
 

Dieter

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Meh, this is the first time I couldn't really care less about a dex expansion. Alola's dex issues are super exaggerated and more because of bad distribution than too few Pokemon, the actual Pokemon available were pretty satisfying. Past dex expansions have been to fix actual deficiencies in the variety, not just to add more Pokemon to the areas. Platinum fixed issues with type variety (such as DP infamously only having 1 non-starter Fire type in the dex), BW2 added old Pokemon back into the game when BW had just new Pokemon. People that have been pushing for dex expansions in remakes like ORAS or potential Kanto sequels can point towards similar variety issues to DP. But Alola? Alola doesn't have any of those problems. It has a little more 1st gen Pokemon and a little less new Pokemon, but that's about it and I don't expect a dex expansion to fix that issue. So a dex expansion of old Pokemon doesn't really excite me in this game. It's just throwing in a bunch of old Pokemon that I could've used in another game if I wanted but decided not to. Not exactly a game changer at this point.
I just did a quick calculation and Kanto Pokemon make up about 23-30% of each Island Dex, and about 22% of the Alola Dex, which gives them a fair amount of presence, but most other past gens seem to make up about 10% of the Alola Dex each . I didn't take families with new forms into account in my calculation. Most of the Kanto mons just happen to be common, so you'll encounter them fairly often.

As someone who is not into competitive, I actually welcome the expansion, as it allows me to try new combinations during the storyline.
 

Tuoko

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So since UB Adhesive got announced, that means we're not going to have only 9 UBs, but the question is, what will the numbers be in the Alola Pokedex?

I'm gonna throw a guess and say UB Adhesive is placed earlier in the Pokedex. Going by the trailers, we get to fight it at Paniola Ranch while it's owned by a URS member. To add onto this, I'm thinking it might be the first UB that isn't considered a sub-legendary/legendary in the games' coding, so it'll be in the same status as regular Pokemon such as Rattata or Fomantis, but as a UB.
 

BigBadButterfree

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I'm wondering if the new UBs is actually their way of introducing new Pokémon. And while in SM we only had the 7 that had basically a legendary status, I now wonder if we'll have more that are not as powerful as the other UBs, and are more treated like regular Pokémon. Like, they just happen to have come from a different dimension. Some other users have speculated in other threads that UB Adhesive looks like it could evolve, and that further makes me think that we could have a handful of new UBs that are more readily available and not ridiculously OP.

Of course, this is just speculation after the recent trailer(s). I could be way off here.
 

Alola

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Meh, this is the first time I couldn't really care less about a dex expansion. Alola's dex issues are super exaggerated and more because of bad distribution than too few Pokemon, the actual Pokemon available were pretty satisfying. Past dex expansions have been to fix actual deficiencies in the variety, not just to add more Pokemon to the areas. Platinum fixed issues with type variety (such as DP infamously only having 1 non-starter Fire type in the dex), BW2 added old Pokemon back into the game when BW had just new Pokemon. People that have been pushing for dex expansions in remakes like ORAS or potential Kanto sequels can point towards similar variety issues to DP. But Alola? Alola doesn't have any of those problems. It has a little more 1st gen Pokemon and a little less new Pokemon, but that's about it and I don't expect a dex expansion to fix that issue. So a dex expansion of old Pokemon doesn't really excite me in this game. It's just throwing in a bunch of old Pokemon that I could've used in another game if I wanted but decided not to. Not exactly a game changer at this point.
*Snaps*

I agree with this wholeheartedly. When I saw the news of the dex expansion, I wasn't particularly thrilled. Mainly because I didn't think there was anything wrong with the original Alolan Pokedex. What I did have issues with were other game features such as Alolan Marowak not having Shadow Bone as an evolution move, Poni Island paling in comparison to the other islands, Crabrawler and the electro-mag evolutions having to wait until the end of the game, etc. The dex wasn't an issue for me.

And you're right-because it wasn't as glaring as previous dex expansions, the expansion falls flat. Diamond & Pearl were ridiculous with their initial Fire type listing and lack of in-game Generation IV evolutions while Black & White did alienate a lot of people by not allowing fan favorites to be used-thus dex expansions were required for that. Sun & Moon? Not so much. I didn't even get to use all the Alolan Pokemon I wanted to use in my first run! I'm in no hurry to raise a Zorua or Volcarona (grinding to level 59? LOL Game Freak you're funny) in Alola.

I am happy that Tropius is finally here, but it should have already been there in Sun & Moon.

I do have a worry with this though. With over 400 Pokemon in the region, Alola now matches Kalos in terms of diversity (funny given how Alola is simply a few islands compared to Kalos being on a continent). I just hope the Trainers reflect that. I better not see Trainers with parties of only one Pokemon again, given how, let's say, 16 different species are obtainable in the same route. Trainers, Kahunas, Trial Captains, Team Skull and the Aether Foundation better have teams that validate the increase in Pokemon available. Otherwise I'll be mad.

This also means that the already rare Alolan Pokemon (looking at you, 5% appearing Mimikyu) will be even harder to obtain due to the amount of Pokemon present on a route/cave/etc.
 

Dieter

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*Snaps*

This also means that the already rare Alolan Pokemon (looking at you, 5% appearing Mimikyu) will be even harder to obtain due to the amount of Pokemon present on a route/cave/etc.
Well, we're also getting new areas, so really that might not make that big a difference. Some mons might migrate, or just become less common
 

SpikOriundo

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I do have a worry with this though. With over 400 Pokemon in the region, Alola now matches Kalos in terms of diversity (funny given how Alola is simply a few islands compared to Kalos being on a continent). I just hope the Trainers reflect that. I better not see Trainers with parties of only one Pokemon again, given how, let's say, 16 different species are obtainable in the same route.
I've recently replayed the older games, where there is no such problem of trainers with only one Pokémon. And I can assure you, trainers with 4~6 Pokémon is the actual problem. Because 90% of the time, they will be composed of Rattata/Magikarp/weaker and low leveled Pokémon. I'll take one-Pokémon trainers all the way over fighting 5 Yungoos.
If they were to just raise the level of the one-Pokémon trainers, or have decently leveled Pokémon and a good variety of them (none of this one species thing. The only people who do this are those looking for a challenge, and NPC have enough to do other than doing challenges they can't do), then I'll be fine with that.

Also, about the Dex Expansion? Hell yeah. Time to actually use a Larvesta on my team, hopefully. Let's hope they don't leave Larvesta at the cave before the Elite Four or something like that.
 

Soki

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This also means that the already rare Alolan Pokemon (looking at you, 5% appearing Mimikyu) will be even harder to obtain due to the amount of Pokemon present on a route/cave/etc.
OR, and this is what I assume and hope, the newly added mons will instead replace all those damn Pikipek/Rattata/Yungoos that appear on almost every damn route. All those three mons appear in 8-9 routes/areas, if that doesn't convince you that the dex needed expansion then I don't know what does :p

I'm gladly accepting these new additions, as the Alola Dex disappointed me a lot. There were a lot of repeats from ORAS/YX, a huge part of the Kanto Dex and very little from the Sinnoh and Unova Dex. Now I'll have a little less trouble making a team of mons that actually satisfies me. Very happy with Mienfoo and Zorua for one :D
 

Alola

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I've recently replayed the older games, where there is no such problem of trainers with only one Pokémon. And I can assure you, trainers with 4~6 Pokémon is the actual problem. Because 90% of the time, they will be composed of Rattata/Magikarp/weaker and low leveled Pokémon. I'll take one-Pokémon trainers all the way over fighting 5 Yungoos.
If they were to just raise the level of the one-Pokémon trainers, or have decently leveled Pokémon and a good variety of them (none of this one species thing. The only people who do this are those looking for a challenge, and NPC have enough to do other than doing challenges they can't do), then I'll be fine with that.
Maybe that scenario may happen early game, but even then it probably wouldn't since USUM has more Pokemon than SM. I've been re playing older games too (White 2, SoulSilver, & Omega Ruby to be specific), so I'm curious to what games you're referring too. These games have trainers who have parties of more than one Pokemon and whom are varied (especially in White 2 with Triple Battle and Rotation Battle opponents), usually mid to late game.

My problem was that SM did not-you could be on Poni Island and still fight several trainers who only have one Pokemon. It makes the battles, and by extension the game, too easy as well limiting the amount of EXP that could be gained.
 

SpikOriundo

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Maybe that scenario may happen early game, but even then it probably wouldn't since USUM has more Pokemon than SM. I've been re playing older games too (White 2, SoulSilver, & Omega Ruby to be specific), so I'm curious to what games you're referring too. These games have trainers who have parties of more than one Pokemon and whom are varied (especially in White 2 with Triple Battle and Rotation Battle opponents), usually mid to late game.
I'm specifically saying about the 4th gen. There is quite a lot of trainers that has 3~4 of the same Pokémon, or basically the same Pokémon. I mean, Pidgeotto, Pidgeot and Noctowl are different Pokémon? Yes, but they all get K.O.'d by Thunderbolt. When everything can be defeated by the same strategy, it makes you question: What's the point?
On DPP, most trainers do have a good variety of Pokémon on the post game, granted, but take a look at the route before Sunyshore City: Wingull, Pelipper, Finneon, Lumineon, Gyarados, Magikarp... It gets to a point where the hardest thing to do is to get to a Pokémon Center to heal your PP. Most of the time, I like to use a Pokémon that doesn't necessarily have an advantage against X Pokémon, because then the battle takes a few more seconds.
 

Alola

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I'm specifically saying about the 4th gen. There is quite a lot of trainers that has 3~4 of the same Pokémon, or basically the same Pokémon. I mean, Pidgeotto, Pidgeot and Noctowl are different Pokémon? Yes, but they all get K.O.'d by Thunderbolt. When everything can be defeated by the same strategy, it makes you question: What's the point?
On DPP, most trainers do have a good variety of Pokémon on the post game, granted, but take a look at the route before Sunyshore City: Wingull, Pelipper, Finneon, Lumineon, Gyarados, Magikarp... It gets to a point where the hardest thing to do is to get to a Pokémon Center to heal your PP. Most of the time, I like to use a Pokémon that doesn't necessarily have an advantage against X Pokémon, because then the battle takes a few more seconds.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. There actually isn't "a lot" of trainers who have 3 to 4 of the same Pokemon for battle in Generation 4. Now, they do exist-notably the Pokemon Collector classes of Diamond & Pearl (three in particular use three Roselia, three Buizel and three Ponyta respectfully; however they all change their teams in Platinum, making them more diverse instead). However, they are a minority and not a majority. Just look up routes and their respective trainers on Bulbapedia or Serebii, and compare the amount of trainers who use several of the same exact Pokemon to those who use different species.

Secondly, it seems your issue stems from trainer classes rather than the amount of Pokemon a trainers in the games generally tend to have (which was my whole point about Sun & Moon). If that's the case, then you have to change that argument. And that's an argument I can empathize with. But understand, trainer classes have been using several of the same Pokemon or Pokemon that share a same weakness for years. It's a staple concept that's crucial to the trainer class. Otherwise, why have it? Hikers tend to use Rock and Ground Pokemon, Black Belts tend to use Fighting type Pokemon and so on. It's expected you're going to fight a party of Pokemon whose weakness you can generally exploit.

The route you're referring to is Route 222. Yes, there are a lot of Water type opponents there but you're not doing the entire route justice. First of all, in both DP & P there are other opponents with various types including Electric, Normal, Fighting, Flying and Ground. You can't one shot all those types with just one Pokemon (unless your Pokemon is so high level that type advantage and disadvantage ceases to matter). Secondly, those Water type trainers are all Fishermen! The fact they they will all use Water types weak to Electric or Grass is a given, meaning you should expect to use a lot of PP of those types (assuming you want to hit them super-effectively). It also makes sense geographically-you and Sunyshore City are next to the ocean, hence why there are a lot of Water type opponents surrounding both routes connecting to Sunyshore. And lastly, it's optional. You don't have to fight them if you don't want, which makes the complaint about running back to a Pokemon Center to restore PP lose some effectiveness.

But lets say we go with your solution to just give those trainers one Pokemon. You said you like to extend battles by not taking advantage of super-effective type match-ups, but the battles will still be quicker because your opponent only has one Pokemon.
 

Bolt the Cat

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I've recently replayed the older games, where there is no such problem of trainers with only one Pokémon. And I can assure you, trainers with 4~6 Pokémon is the actual problem. Because 90% of the time, they will be composed of Rattata/Magikarp/weaker and low leveled Pokémon. I'll take one-Pokémon trainers all the way over fighting 5 Yungoos.
If they were to just raise the level of the one-Pokémon trainers, or have decently leveled Pokémon and a good variety of them (none of this one species thing. The only people who do this are those looking for a challenge, and NPC have enough to do other than doing challenges they can't do), then I'll be fine with that.

Also, about the Dex Expansion? Hell yeah. Time to actually use a Larvesta on my team, hopefully. Let's hope they don't leave Larvesta at the cave before the Elite Four or something like that.
The older games also had half as many Pokemon in their regional dexes as Alola did, so it's a lot more excusable then than it is now.
 

Bob Fizzle

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They could pull a Cubone and only give Octillery an Alolan form
It probably won't happen because tranforming is Ditto's gimmick, but I would probably squeal like a little girl if Alolan Octillery was modeled after the mimic octopus and could take on characteristics of its foes.
 

Zeb

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Buneary also being confirmed makes me think that the theory that all Pokemon that can Mega Evolve* will be in the regional dex might be right. So far we have Tyranitar, Heracross, Ampharos, Houndoom, Manectric and Lopunny confirmed as added. Others still missing would be Beedrill, Pidgeot, Steelix, Gardevoir, Gallade, Mawile, Aggron, Medicham, Camerupt, Altaria, Banette, Abomasnow and Audino.

*Bar legendary Pokemon and starters, which could available through wormholes (legendary) and gifts/island scan (starters).

I'm hoping Stunfisk is added. It seems like it could fit on the beach with Sandygast and Staryu.
 

Bolt the Cat

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What would really be refreshing (besides completely new Pokemon, but that seems to be off the table aside from some new UBs) is to see some Pokemon that haven't been featured in nonnative regional dexes. We already have a couple like Larvesta and some of the new 6th gen Pokemon, but there's even some older ones that have never been seen outside of the region they were introduced in (and in the case of 1st gen, Johto, which I don't think you can really count since every 1st gen Pokemon was in the Johto Dex and it was sort of treated like a National Dex). It'd be great to see some of those Pokemon. Here's the ones that haven't been seen yet:

Venonat/Venomoth
Krabby/Kingler
Tyrogue/Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan/Hitmontop
1st gen fossils
2nd gen starters
Pinec:bulbaWave:Forretress
Stantler
Seedot/Nuzleaf/Shiftry
Shroomish/Breloom
Cacnea/Cacturne
2nd gen legendaries
3rd gen starters
3rd gen fossils
3rd gen legendaries
4th gen starters
Kricketot/Kricketune
Shinx/Luxi:bulbaWave:Luxray
Cherubi/Cherrim
Aipom/Amibpom
Glameow/Purugly
Spiritomb
Togepi/Togetic/Togekiss
Duskull/Dusclops/Dusknoir
4th gen legendaries
5th gen starters
Munna/Musharna
Pidove/Tranquil/Unfezant
Blitzle/Zebstrika
Drillbur/Excadrill
Tympole/Palpitoad/Seismitoad
Sewaddle/Swadloon/Leavanny
Darumaka/Darmanitan
Maractus
Yamask/Cofagrigus
Mincinn:bulbaWave:Cincinno
Deerling/Sawsbuck
Frillish/Jellicent
Joltik/Galvantula
Klink/Klang/Klinklang
Tynam:bulbaWave:Eelektrik/Eelektross
Elgyem/Beheeyem
5th gen legendaries
any other 6th gen Pokemon not already in the Alola Dex


We obviously won't see all of these but it'd be great to see this list trimmed down some more.
 
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Zeb

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A different Deerling on each island would be similar to Oricorio (maybe Melemele = Spring, Akala = Summer, Ula'ula = Winter, Poni = Fall). Tynamo somewhere like Seaward Cave seems fitting too. Cacnea in the desert. Cherrim in Malie Garden. Elgyem at the observatory with Cleffa and Minior.
 

Bolt the Cat

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A different Deerling on each island would be similar to Oricorio (maybe Melemele = Spring, Akala = Summer, Ula'ula = Winter, Poni = Fall). Tynamo somewhere like Seaward Cave seems fitting too. Cacnea in the desert. Cherrim in Malie Garden. Elgyem at the observatory with Cleffa and Minior.
Well you could find a place for just about any Pokemon on that list somewhere in Alola, it's just a matter of which ones they decide to add.

I do agree on Deerling though, the four island setup of this region makes it a prime opportunity to reappear whereas in most cases it'd be difficult to come up with a way for all of its forms to appear.
 

Tuoko

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I do agree on Deerling though, the four island setup of this region makes it a prime opportunity to reappear whereas in most cases it'd be difficult to come up with a way for all of its forms to appear.
Just wanted to point out, but it was also easily possible for all four forms of Deerling to exist in Kalos, they just chose not to do it. Spring for Santalune, Summer for Cyllage/Ambrette/Shalour, Autumn for Laverre, and Winter for Snowbelle.

I doubt they'll actually implement the Deerling forms on the different islands, but if they decide to, I'm all up for it.
 
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