Pokemon and Daddy Issues (A Gender Studies Topic)

[KarlG]

So I was playing the Pokemon World Tournament and Roark beat me by a HAIR with his Aerodactyl (it's always tough playing World Champions because I'm a Bug specialist and I pray to never get Roxanne, Brock or Roark), and when he was done he said something like, "you gave me the confidence I needed to beat my dad! Thanks!"

OK, first of all, that's like a therapy session waiting to happen. The way Byron always puts down his son and the way Roark has to always try to live up to Byron's reputation is nasty. It's like Roark will always live in his father's shadow, especially since his father is supposedly one of the top Gym Leaders in Sinnoh.

And then thinking about it... father figures really have an outstanding legacy in the games, don't they?

Proof:

1) Roark and Byron.

2) Norman is the Gym Leader of Petalburg City, and everyone talks about how tough he is and how it must be natural for the player to be a good Trainer because he/she got Norman's genes. Even after becoming League Champion he/she still can't escape Norman's shadow.

3) Janine and Koga. How is it that Janine will ever feel good enough given that her father is now a member of the Elite Four?! Unless she freaking becomes the Champion, she will never outshine him or come into her own as a Pokemon trainer. At least she should have chosen her own type, like Bug or something. Venomoth and Ariados are Bugs too.

4) Falkner's father used to be a Gym Leader. Falkner is using his father's bird Pokemon. Everything Falkner does is for his father. Read the convo between Falkner and Janine at Celadon Dept Store for additional evidence.

5) Skyla and Flannery both have grandfathers who were legendary. One was a legendary pilot, the other was a member of the Hoenn Elite Four. That is just sad because Flannery and Skyla are newbie Gym Leaders who could do with less comparison.

6) Barry and Palmer. Palmer is a Frontier Brain, and Barry is just running around doing god-knows-what. Well at the very least he doesnt TRY to live up to his father's reputation.

7) Maylene's father is a gambling addict. 'Nuff said.

8) Well, the ULTIMATE: The Players' fathers are NEVER around. That's therapy needed in the sense that when he/she goes home the mother is there waiting to heal his Pokemon but his/her father? Nope, not around, never seems to care, and no one ever knows why except for Norman.

Questions:

Anyone know what happened to the fathers of the players? Any theories?

Anyone know why the MOTHER figure is never important? (The mothers are all about healing and the only woman that has lived up to her full power, without being overshadowed by any male figure is Cynthia.)

(I feel like I should write a research paper on this for my gender studies class.)

 

[zakisrage]

You're reading way too much into Pokemon. Pokemon and gender studies are like oil and water. They don't mix. Nintendo does not intend there to be any gender issues in the games.

1) So?

3) and 4) At least Koga cares about his daughter. Falkner's father does too.

5) Both grandfathers only appear physically in the anime. In the games, both of them could easily be deceased. I always thought that Game!Skyla's grandfather was dead.

6) Isn't that a good thing?

7) So is Grimsley, and he does not appear to have any children.

8) I'm getting tired of people assuming that the players' mums are single parents. Fathers are mentioned at several points. The TV is bought by the dad. Maybe the dad is at work. Do you think that everyone in the Pokemon world is a Pokemon Trainer? No - someone's gotta pay the bills. And BTW, many of their manga counterparts don't have mothers either - neither of Black's parents are mentioned in the manga, not even his mum.

And yet you don't mention BIANCA, whose dad really does have serious issues. (He's not a Trainer, but still...)

And Cynthia being the sole example of a strong woman? Most of the women in the games are self-made. The manga and the anime felt some stupid need to give many of them fathers, grandfathers, and other male relatives to deny them the credit that they get.

What about:
Erika (runs perfume shop and Gym, no father or grandfather is ever mentioned)
Fantina (successful performer; no one ever overshadows her)
Agatha (major villain in the manga. You could argue her relationship with Oak, but realise which one is still a Trainer and which one is not.)
Lenora (It's her who runs the Nacrene Museum. NOT Hawes.)
Elesa (successful model. Is any male relative of hers mentioned? Pokemon Adventures mentions a grandma, but that's a female relative.)

 

[KarlG]

Well, calm down there buddy. This is a forum for Pokemon discussion, and Pokemon discussion it is, including all the theories we got. I'm not one for arguing about sexism in Disney movies, but regarding Pokemon, it is always fun to think about additional things. I'm not insinuating there is sexism in the game or anything negative about it, so quit getting so defensive. I'm suggesting a theory that I have which u may or may not agree with, and if u don't, and provided your responses healthily, then good! I see indeed Elesa and Fantina are examples of strong female characters.

Now. Calm down, and stop calling for things which aren't yours to be locked.

 

[Swadloon]

I wouldn't reject any possibility of sexism. It's Japanese, after all, and Japanese culture is sexist.

The only thing which really pisses me off, though, is the fact that Leaf was completely forgotten, as if she was not canon. It didn't have to be like that.

 

[coolcatkim22]

Considering in how many movies and tv shows the mother is killed off, I don't think this is really an issue.

 

[The Outrage]

1) Roark and Byron.

Try reading their dialogue again. Byron isn't putting Roark down, he worries about Roark because he loves him which results in his over-protectiveness which comes off as him not believing in his son's ability. Obviously Roark feels that his father doesn't really believe in his abilities, but what he does is tries to prove he is strong enough. Byron isn't abusive.

2) Norman is the Gym Leader of Petalburg City, and everyone talks about how tough he is and how it must be natural for the player to be a good Trainer because he/she got Norman's genes. Even after becoming League Champion he/she still can't escape Norman's shadow.

I think you're overplaying that. I never got that impression post-game, especially when you have an entire table full of fans at the Pokemon Trainer Fan club in Lilycove.

Now Blue on the other hand, all the dialogue in PWT revolves around how he's his grandfather's grandson and how talented he must be because of that. Though Blue himself doesn't really exhibit any form of an inferiority complex as a result, its just everyone else focuses on his relation to the much more famous Professor Oak.

3) Janine and Koga. How is it that Janine will ever feel good enough given that her father is now a member of the Elite Four?!

Because not everyone measures their success as an arms race against others. Given that she vies for her father's approval, I'm fairly certain that's how she feels good.

5) Skyla and Flannery both have grandfathers who were legendary. One was a legendary pilot, the other was a member of the Hoenn Elite Four. That is just sad because Flannery and Skyla are newbie Gym Leaders who could do with less comparison.

Everyone starts somewhere. If you really think having a successful member in the family in the same field as you creates "daddy issues" I'd think you're the one who needs therapy because it could just as easily create inspiration, a goal to strive towards, or you don't bother noting it because you understand that you're your own person.

6) Barry and Palmer. Palmer is a Frontier Brain, and Barry is just running around doing god-knows-what. Well at the very least he doesnt TRY to live up to his father's reputation.

If you don't think Barry's trying to get strong because he's scatter-brained, I'd have to question whether you're really playing this game. We know what Barry's doing. He tried to get Crasher Wake to mentor him, and now he's training in Survival Area.

 

[coolcatkim22]

Though Blue himself doesn't really exhibit any form of an inferiority complex as a result, its just everyone else focuses on his relation to the much more famous Professor Oak.

Ha, Blue with an inferiority complex, that's funny.

Well, unless he's cockiness is due to him trying to compensate for a poor inferiority complex, but I doubt that's the case. I'm reading way too much into this.

 

[Karpi]

Kangaskhan's baby grew up with a single mother and it appears to be stuck in a permanent infantile state.

 

[Hex Maniac]

This is an interesting topic, I hope it's ok to revive it.

I've always assumed that the player's father has died so they only have their mother. Though that leads to the question of why the player is going away in the first place. The player's father would have died recently (he bought the TV or whatever), so why doesn't the player feel bad about leaving their mother all alone? Or why doesn't she worry more about letting her only close relative go off to things that could lead to mortal peril? Especially in the first game or so when the player's mother never calls.

Maybe the father is at work. Then why isn't he ever mentioned? It's weird.

I've always felt like Pokémon society was supposed to be somewhat similar to ours. In our society, women are still viewed as caretakers, even if it's in a subtle way. Maybe women were only recently allowed to become gym leaders and elite 4 members. Even if before they were allowed to have pokémon and train them, they didn't get to be a part of an official trainer circuit. Much like how in our society there's still an income gap between men and women, there were less career opportunities for women a few decades ago, and universities didn't accept them for centuries.

That's my in-game theory. Out of the game, I think it's probably because of sexism, even if it's unintentional sexism.

 

[Te-em]

I think the father of red/green left the family didn't he? Then I think there's a rumour about him being Sakaki.

Talking about Sakaki. Sakaki's mother was the boss of the Rocket Dan, so I guess mothers are mentioned too. Though this is anime, not game.

 

[Lis]

I think your point is indeed intriguing. This might be a little bit of a dull thing to say, but the "unconscious part" of the human mynd (or psyche, as psicologysts call it) keeps locked everything you have ever seen or heard that suppose an obstacle for your daily life. This means, for example car noises. This also include any kind of expirience you may have gone trough that is troublesome enough for you that you are not able to "live" with it if its always present in your mynd (in the conscious, what we use to think, where we hear our thoughts) SO (and sorry again for this introduction), the so called "traumas" ,which might include a parent's departure, are kept there; sometimes so deep inside that you don't even remember them; sometimes only the feelings you have felt towards it are locked there. My point is, that experts say that when some of them are waaay to deep and need to get out, we release that emotional reppression that they provoque trough dreams; writing or anything that supposes the use of imagination (yes, also drawing. Becuase imagination is fundamentally made with "unconscious" confeti)
It wouldn't surprise me that Takeshi Shudo had gone trough a similar situation, or at least felt like his father (or whichever paternal figure he had) left him somehow. (Or felt pressured by some mentor or sensei who he saw as a "father" that demanded a lot from him, i don't know. Every human is different, remember. Which means? is almost impossible to assure something like this. This is a pure hipothesys.)

 

[Almonds]

In almost every anime/manga/game, the father figure is someone the kid looks up to, respects in awe, and considers their daddy to be the strongest ever hero to them. When they grow up, they eventually challenge their fathers, only to be beaten since there's way too much difference in experience. It's not inferiority complex - it's that the kid is obviously lacking in experience (compared to their fathers), so the experience gap is what sets them below their fathers pretty much a long time, if not forever.

However, this doesn't mean they are living in their father's shadows. This is more a respect issue, imo, and the desire to be acknowledged.

 

[Te-em]

I think your point is indeed intriguing. This might be a little bit of a dull thing to say, but the "unconscious part" of the human mynd (or psyche, as psicologysts call it) keeps locked everything you have ever seen or heard that suppose an obstacle for your daily life. This means, for example car noises. This also include any kind of expirience you may have gone trough that is troublesome enough for you that you are not able to "live" with it if its always present in your mynd (in the conscious, what we use to think, where we hear our thoughts) SO (and sorry again for this introduction), the so called "traumas" ,which might include a parent's departure, are kept there; sometimes so deep inside that you don't even remember them; sometimes only the feelings you have felt towards it are locked there. My point is, that experts say that when some of them are waaay to deep and need to get out, we release that emotional reppression that they provoque trough dreams; writing or anything that supposes the use of imagination (yes, also drawing. Becuase imagination is fundamentally made with "unconscious" confeti)
It wouldn't surprise me that Takeshi Shudo had gone trough a similar situation, or at least felt like his father (or whichever paternal figure he had) left him somehow. (Or felt pressured by some mentor or sensei who he saw as a "father" that demanded a lot from him, i don't know. Every human is different, remember. Which means? is almost impossible to assure something like this. This is a pure hipothesys.)

You have a point there. The games and anime are likely to reflect something in their creators.

 

[Lumina]

What I've noticed is that relatively few characters have both parents present. And there's almost never an explanation for the absence of the missing parent; they just kind of . . . don't exist. R/S/E is the only exception I can think of, given that we know that the player's dad is off running his gym.

Like, seriously, who and where is Silver's mother? He obsesses over his hatred for his father almost to the point of ridiculousness, but it's as if he never even had a mother. Is she alive? Is she dead? What is her relationship with Giovanni like? If she is still alive, is Silver in touch with her? Is Giovanni?

And then there's N and Ghetsis, which is even more complicated given that Ghetsis isn't N's biological father anyway. We never get any clue as the what happened to N's biological parents. Did they abandon him? Were they killed? Or perhaps N just sort of wandered off one day and went missing. Which brings up the possibility that he may have parents out there somewhere who either are still looking for him or believe he's dead.

I also think there's some weird gender inversion in Pokemon when it comes to parents. I'm sure that some of it's cultural. In Western media, it's usually the mother who is absent if the child is going to go on an adventure, probably because if Mom were there, she would put her foot down. But presumably here the point of your mom being there and your dad not is that your mother is seen as an unambiguously supportive figure who saves your money for you / heals your Pokemon whenever you come to visit / etc., whereas if it were your dad at home, he would be seen as someone you have to prove yourself to . . . ?

But then there's some other stuff that's just kind of odd. Let's go back to N and Ghetsis for a moment. If we break the story down to its essential components, we get:
1. A parental figure not biologically related to the child, who holds dictatorial sway in the household and is narcissistic and abusive
2. The parental figure doesn't let the child have contact with the outside world
3. The child has some kind of innate power that isn't related to intelligence or strength, but is some kind of purity of heart / natural goodness or charisma
4. The parental figure is obsessed with either controlling or destroying this power

That is the basic set up of an awful lot of (at least Western; I don't know if it carries across cultures) fairy tales about (step-)mothers and daughters, not fathers and sons.

Ghetsis is an evil step-mother, basically.

. . .

. . .

"Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the Pokefairest of them all?"

(Also, I love this topic!)

 

[Lis]

The games and anime are likely to reflect something in their creators.

They do, don't they? If we think of other animes is interesting to think what lead them to draw about certain things (like "Uzumaki", or even the oh so famous "Death Note") Personally, i liked to think about Giovanni being Ash's father. Besides, if it's about making fun and specultive associations, we have two trios that are "supported" by a certain adult. In the case of Ash and his friends (since they tend to change a lot) there's his mother; endearing and caring who doens't forget to keep an eye on him every now and then, ocassionaly assiting him with some supplies. Behind Team Rocket (a very important part of the anime, at least in its begginig) we have of course Giovanni; who plays a very similar role; only that with the strictness and objectivenes that fathers tend to have (at least in the anime) So set the imagination free- who knows if "coincidentally" Pokemon writers have a certain tendency to share the same childhood traumas about their fathers? (i apologyse if this comment sound more rough as it should)

 

[Te-em]

Satoshi's Tajiri's father was a bit strict I think as he wanted to decide the future of his son, but Satoshi wished to play games and in the end make them. I don't know about his mother. Then of course, I don't know how much the Satoshi in the anime is based on Satoshi Tajiri, except the name.

 

[KarlG]

Woah I never thought this thread would be revived.