Pokemon Anime Continuity Discussion Thread

[CrystaI]

Whether Ash caught any Tauros in M20 or not, there exist the doubt of what were the 5 pokeballs he handed to Prof.Oak during the flashback of SM001.
SM may not be in the same continuity as M20, yet, it also not necessary be the same continuity as OS-DP/BW-XY. Though in this context, "timeline" may be the better word, because there is still the doubt of when does SM happened. Is it really immediately after XY? Or like the headcanon of Matsumoto Rica said it is somewhere during OS? Or like another headcanon mentioned by some users in here which happens before BW? Or something else?
We don't know the answer, and I doubt there will be any answer. That's why it is confusing.

 

[Cresselia92]

Yeah I had considered that argument, that's why I put in the "reasonable" - it is more reasonable to assume in that case that Ash is referring to the Tauros he did catch in OS than the scenario of him catching them off-screen in M20 since no one can prove he did or he didn't, and if he doesn't mention catching one in M20, there is not much reason to believe he did.

However, it is also reasonable for children, aka the target audience, to assume that the movie is about the origin of Ash, as in the guy who is currently on the screen of their TV starring in the Sun/Moon saga. Children may consider that Tauros mention some kind of random throwaway line rather than connecting that line to the OS Tauros like we do, or could even just ignore it. And considering that children are the main target, it's relatively safe to assume that M20 Ash and SM Ash are the same person, just like they would do.

 

[Likeitornot.]

However, it is also reasonable for children, aka the target audience, to assume that the movie is about the origin of Ash, as in the guy who is currently on the screen of their TV starring in the Sun/Moon saga. Children may consider that Tauros mention some kind of random throwaway line rather than connecting that line to the OS Tauros like we do, or could even just ignore it. And considering that children are the main target, it's relatively safe to assume that M20 Ash and SM Ash are the same person, just like they would do.

It's a good point however Ash's Tauros has appeared in the anime as recent as 2013; if the writers felt they could make direct references to over a decade from its initial debut, I don't see why they would simply put this reference in as a throw-away; it is possible, but considering when Ash has already caught a Tauros, it is more reasonable to assume the reference is to the OS set of Tauros, unless more reason is given that it is a throw-away line. Also, some of the target audience would have been watching the anime in 2013 (though, I'd say not the majority however I'm not entirely sure of the trends of how long children watch Pokemon in Japan nowadays) so they would connect that line to the Tauros they had seen in Best Wishes, which was the Tauros caught in OS (you could argue that he may have caught some off-screen since OS, but we have no reason to concede that so). Considering SM has thrown in Easter Eggs to matters today's children mightn't grasp if they hadn't seen the anime that aired before their birth - such as May's distinct ribbons from M08 being referred to, and Brock's hairstyle - I feel it is more reasonable to assume this is a reference to continuity - an Easter Egg, you could say - than a throw-away line.

Why would it be safe for children to assume that? If Ash has not caught a Tauros in M20 either then, it wouldn't make any sense to connect that line to him, and thus, there is no satisfactory evidence of unique continuity from M20 to SM that I have seen so far. It has been referred to many times as a parallel world. Ash is with companions that have never been mentioned before, Ash has had an experience with Ho-oh that has never been mentioned - does Mr. Mime appear in M20? I don't know that one, but if he doesn't there's also that - maybe, a better angle to tackle it would be still to say it's safe for children to presume this Ash is not connected to the Ash of OS-XY, but the argument that this Ash is connected to M20 Ash when M20 does not appear to reference Ash's future in Alola at all when it had the opportunity to would not be a logical conclusion to make, in my view.

Whether Ash caught any Tauros in M20 or not, there exist the doubt of what were the 5 pokeballs he handed to Prof.Oak during the flashback of SM001.

Do you feel the five pokeball issue is enough of a problem though solely to theorise with reason that SM Ash holds no continuity to Ash from OS-XY? I do agree with everyone who says that Sun and Moon's references to continuity are loose but I don't feel they're as non-existent enough to negate them and I don't believe the five pokeball problem - something that was just shown in an extremely brief frame and could possibly be an animator error considering how fast that montage was (though, am I hand-waving here?) - is enough of an issue on its own to make me question the continuity. However, that is me - you may feel it is and that is fair enough.

 

[Rath]

More precise translation:

"Pocket Monsters the Movie: I Choose You!" is a parallel world split off from episode 1 of the TV series"

When Satoshi and Pikachu saw Houou in the first episode of the TV series, no Rainbow Feather fell down. In this year's movie, we enter a parallel world the moment that Houou feather falls. This event thus creates a split between a world where the feather fell and a world where the feather didn't fall. In the TV series, Satoshi is currently continuing his adventures in search of Pokémon he's yet to meet in the world where the feather didn't fall."

So yes, Sun/Moon is at the very least confirmed to take place in the same universe as XYZ and prior.

 

[CrystaI]

Using the exact same parallel universe theory, there may exist thousands or even millions of universes, as continuity may split further whenever there exist the possibility of different choices. Example: Ash decided to go to Alola for vacation instead of delivering GS ball to Orange Island after the Indigo League. Such examples can be more, you just need to name it.

When the official staffs confirm parallel universe theory is true, continuity is no more one straight road, but becomes a tree branch out to many. There may be one original starting point, but there doesn't guarantee one unique end point.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

However, it is also reasonable for children, aka the target audience, to assume that the movie is about the origin of Ash, as in the guy who is currently on the screen of their TV starring in the Sun/Moon saga. Children may consider that Tauros mention some kind of random throwaway line rather than connecting that line to the OS Tauros like we do, or could even just ignore it. And considering that children are the main target, it's relatively safe to assume that M20 Ash and SM Ash are the same person, just like they would do.

Did we consider M01 canon just becuss the children did? Or any of the movie's for that matter? Since the target audience would think that it's canon.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Did we consider M01 canon just becuss the children did? Or any of the movie's for that matter? Since the target audience would think that it's canon.

Movie are considered canon because of references.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Did we consider M01 canon just becuss the children did? Or any of the movie's for that matter? Since the target audience would think that it's canon.

It's not?

 

[Sakuraa]

So with this statement, is that theory about there being 2 Ashs in the series debunked now? Specifically I mean the theory of an OS+SM Ash and an AG-XY Ash. Obviously the movie Ash would be an entirely different one since it's an AU. Just curious because I've been so confused about all of this.

 

[Unbeatable HoennMon]

So with this statement, is that theory about there being 2 Ashs in the series debunked now? Specifically I mean the theory of an OS+SM Ash and an AG-XY Ash. Obviously the movie Ash would be an entirely different one since it's an AU. Just curious because I've been so confused about all of this.

There are many theories...honestly in SM we see more references to Ash's past than in XY.
For me- OS+AG+DP- that's a strong continuity- and the rest is theory.

 

[Rath]

The continuity felt stronger back in DP because most of the old cast were still around.

Brock was still around, May and Gary made their final appearances, and Misty and Max were at least referenced. And Chronicles was airing at the time of AG, so Misty wasn't completely gone yet back then.

When Brock finally left for good, that was officially the end of the road for all of the original cast members except for Ash and Team Rocket.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

It's not?

Very few movies (if any at all) are considered canon JUST becuase it is airing with a specific anime, and M20 should be no exception. It will not be related to Sun and Moon series JUST becuase the target audience thought so.

 

[Cresselia92]

Very few movies (if any at all) are considered canon JUST becuase it is airing with a specific anime, and M20 should be no exception. It will not be related to Sun and Moon series JUST becuase the target audience thought so.

I think the crux of the matter with M20 is that it has been promoted as the movie that tells the story about how Ash and Pikachu met, not as the alternative story featuring an Ash and a Pikachu from another dimension / reality / timeline or whatever. As such, you can't blame people for considering this movie the first stone that starts a new canon and continuity, especially when the first details about the movie surfaced.

Now, I'm not sure if they always considered the movie an independent movie, or if they backpedaled at some point after seeing the overall negative opinion of the fans. To me it looks a bit like the latter, though, since the first interview implies the movie being a retelling of the first episode with some differences featuring Ash and Pikachu, while the latest interview says the opposite and that M20 is a movie of its own. Quite conflicting statements, if you ask me.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I think the crux of the matter with M20 is that it has been promoted as the movie that tells the story about how Ash and Pikachu met, not as the alternative story featuring an Ash and a Pikachu from another dimension / reality / timeline or whatever. As such, you can't blame people for considering this movie the first stone that starts a new canon and continuity, especially when the first details about the movie surfaced.

I think that would make for a bit too complex marketing for them, that is why they chose to promote it as a story of how Ash and Pikachu met.

To me it looks a bit like the latter, though, since the first interview implies the movie being a retelling of the first episode with some differences featuring Ash and Pikachu, while the latest interview says the opposite and that M20 is a movie of its own. Quite conflicting statements, if you ask me.

All evidence at first showed that the movie was an AU sort of thing (but @Silktree was arguing the opposite based on one word- the 'origin' story). I perceived it as an AU from the get go, and I think it's now canon.

 

[Nicolas721]

More precise translation:

"Pocket Monsters the Movie: I Choose You!" is a parallel world split off from episode 1 of the TV series"

When Satoshi and Pikachu saw Houou in the first episode of the TV series, no Rainbow Feather fell down. In this year's movie, we enter a parallel world the moment that Houou feather falls. This event thus creates a split between a world where the feather fell and a world where the feather didn't fall. In the TV series, Satoshi is currently continuing his adventures in search of Pokémon he's yet to meet in the world where the feather didn't fall."

So yes, Sun/Moon is at the very least confirmed to take place in the same universe as XYZ and prior.

My opinion is that..well, if they wanted the feather to be the divergence point they should have made a more faithful transition instead of introducing divergence points before, like Ash's cap of Misty's role. Maybe Ash's original cap could have been destroyed after Pikachu's thunderbolt, and seeing his special cap destroyed would justify the decisions Ash takes later.

My theory is that the writers' original idea was that the movie was kinda compatible with what we saw in the TV series, but as development advanced it turned into a huge reboot, that caused them to say statements like that.

 

[Sakuraa]

There are many theories...honestly in SM we see more references to Ash's past than in XY.
For me- OS+AG+DP- that's a strong continuity- and the rest is theory.

Alright then. I guess I'll just consider the entire series connected once again, since that seems to be what the quote is basically saying. The two Ash's theory always seemed farfetch'd to me anyway.

 

[SinnohEevee]

The backlash I guess was mostly from older fans, so I don't think it mattered.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

There are many theories...honestly in SM we see more references to Ash's past than in XY.

In which way?

 

[Unbeatable HoennMon]

In which way?

Writing ,,Ash's past" I meant generally previous series and that all things like Tauros, Mr Mime, Wobbuffet etc.
In XY, only one reference to the past was Alexa's apperance. But Ash didn't mention his own past- we only saw him as 7 years old kid but...his behaviour was much different than that Ketchum from OS (SM Ash's personality is quite similar to that from Indigo League Season, in my mind).
That's why I said it about XY and SM.
@Sakuraa
Shortly- I would say OS+AG+DP= strong continuity. Last BW episode= The end of the period with old characters, pokemon and references.
XY and SM= definetely the same universe but without that strong continuity.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

In XY, only one reference to the past was Alexa's apperance.

He mentioned Dawn's Piplup.
Oak's Rotom is appeared.