Pokemon Anime Continuity Discussion Thread

[Unbeatable HoennMon]

He mentioned Dawn's Piplup.
Oak's Rotom is appeared.

He mentioned Piplup he and Pikachu used to know- but yes, it's probably Dawn's one.
Oak's Rotom- ok, you' ve got the point, I missed it.
But still- I think SM is more similar to OS than XY.

 

[Rath]

My opinion is that..well, if they wanted the feather to be the divergence point they should have made a more faithful transition instead of introducing divergence points before, like Ash's cap of Misty's role. Maybe Ash's original cap could have been destroyed after Pikachu's thunderbolt, and seeing his special cap destroyed would justify the decisions Ash takes later.

My theory is that the writers' original idea was that the movie was kinda compatible with what we saw in the TV series, but as development advanced it turned into a huge reboot, that caused them to say statements like that.

So, you think it is a reboot, but:

Timeline A: Ash travels through Kanto as normal (minus his companions) then comes to Alola.
Timeline B: The feather drops and the events of the movie happen.

 

[Cresselia92]

Personally, I would like to hear the statements of someone else involved into the movie before truly debunking the theory. It's not the first time that different members of the cast declared different things based on how they perceive events in the anime, so I would like to hear the opinion of other members.

The more I look at it, the more it seems that M20 being either a reboot or an AU is left to interpretation.

 

[Desdar300]

I was asked to post this by Silktree since he has limited internet access this month.

Originally Posted by Silktree
I agree with Crystal that Yuyama is really just saying that SM is set in another continuity than the movie's. He doesn't say anything about SM following XYZ. And yes, this last-minute explanation does scream "I am trying to appease old-time fans to get their attention and make them less ambivalent about the movie." I still don't see why kids would think that the movie is non-canon, considering they don't read interviews and no one has ever encouraged them to watch the original series. The first episode was re-broadcast yesterday - after midnight! None of the official sites cover the older series in any depth, either. So while I can't speak for Japanese kids, and I don't know how many of them watch the older series on Netflix/Hulu/Amazon, I can certainly see why they would treat the movie as canon to SM. And @PkmnTrainerV, hardly anyone considers the previous movies non-canon; only the Genesect movie raised some suspicion.

While SM is not in the same continuity as the movie, I don't see how it necessarily/logically follows XYZ, either. I view it a what if scenario about Ash heading to Alola right after OS Kanto, as opposed to the Orange Islands or Johto. This is what Rica believes, after all, and she's probably thought about this more than Yuyama ever has. He just sees Ash as eternally 10 years old, forever meant to follow his own whims (until he dies himself, lol).

What I'm less convinced about is BW and XYZ, but here's my somewhat elaborate take:

BW is a what if scenario about Ash never learning from his mistakes. It still followed Sinnoh (Dawn proves that), but not the one from DP. Paul might not have existed, for starters, and Ash's teams in general may have been different - except for the core Kanto team, they were only referenced via a non-canon opening and a post-credits picture. It doesn't really matter since BW proves that a big roster isn't everything even with evolutions (both Ash and Cameron illustrated that). It is interesting to note that in the last DP episode, Ash told Dawn that he hadn't decided to travel in another region, which I suppose could explain why he didn't originally plan on staying in Unova, but it also raises the possibility that DP Ash settled down in Kanto and eventually won the Indigo League. To be fair, this episode also set up the TRio's mission for Giovanni, but Unova wasn't mentioned and their personality shift in BW still doesn't make sense... Also, Dawn left for Hoenn at the end of her special, but she never mentioned that in BW.

XYZ is not a continuation of BW; while BW Ash did go to Kalos, we never saw his journey. This is implied by the wildly different characterization and even his hair (it grew over night?). In fact, XY following Movie 20 would make a lot of sense, as Ash rarely loses in either of them and takes losses as a huge insult to his ego. (Yuyama only said that the Ash we're currentlyfollowing is not the one from the movie, but XYZ Ash could be a different case.) Serena's flashback hints at Ash getting praised even as a young boy (with Gary conveniently missing), which was definitely not the case in OS. One could argue that XYZ is the series that really followed DP, but I don't buy that for the above reason and Ash's general blandness in XYZ. At any rate, the Piplup reference could actually pertain to Makoto (not that I think this was the plan in 2014) or just a random Piplup, while Oak catching Rotom and Alexa's visit could have easily happened in another way.

Yes, this is all pretty complex, but the possibility is there once a multiverse is introduced. There is really no reason why the movie should be an isolated case with such vague continuity and inconsistent characterization. It's obvious that Rica needs to rely on the idea of a multiverse so as to relate to Ash's changes.

I like SM Ash, by the way, since I can see how he would have evolved from Kanto Ash directly; his personality is still in tact. I don't mind BW or XYZ, either, but I just don't see them as natural extensions of the original story. Even if there is no concrete evidence of a multiverse outside the movie, and you can always handwave the inconsistencies and lack of direct continuity, I maintain that the multiverse theory is what makes the most sense. That said, I can understand why it is a controversial opinion/headcanon and most people prefer not to get a headache by considering this.

 

[Nicolas721]

So, you think it is a reboot, but:

Timeline A: Ash travels through Kanto as normal (minus his companions) then comes to Alola.
Timeline B: The feather drops and the events of the movie happen.

That's what I was trying to say, I confused the terms.

At the end of the day, the anime is just a bunch of drawings made by real people. If they want to prairse short-term viewers (SM20) they'll bring back Makoto, if they want to praise long-term viewers they'll use Misty. Don't get me wrong, I like multiverse theories, but with the Pokemon anime there are a lot of contradictory facts.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Or they'll take the middle part with Dawn? Not too old and not too new.

Depends on which will be the next revisit, Sinnoh or Kanto (either is as obvious as the other). And they'll be also tempted to do a Serena special after her popularity. I don't think it's simply a question of Misty vs Makoto. Those are just the extremes.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Or they'll take the middle part with Dawn? Not too old and not too new.

Depends on which will be the next revisit, Sinnoh or Kanto (either is as obvious as the other). And they'll be also tempted to do a Serena special after her popularity. I don't think it's simply a question of Misty vs Makoto. Those are just the extremes.

Dawn is my favourite Pokégirl and I would like to see her again. But I doubt they would bring her back. The target audience probably doesn't care much about her.

 

[appsmartvn]

That means that they're advertising the movie as an origin story BNS.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Well...I guess this theory is officially dead!

 

[Kairyu]

I'll admit with the recent news in mind I've been laughing quite a lot at certain posters/posts in this thread.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

The honourable, legendary, obligatory,

I. Told. You. So.


Sorry

 

[Neo Blaze]

It is kind of funny how some people were like 100% sure this theory was fact and dismissed anyone who dared to question it.

 

[Cresselia92]

I'll still wait for the anime to showcase Ash's Kalos team before declaring the theory totally dead. If they really do appear during Brock and Misty's return, then I will concede and consider the whole anime a big consistency mess, because some things don't make much sense continuity-wise.

Unless we want to deal with multiverses, but I'd rather not step into this territory yet.

 

[Rath]

There's still Rica's interpretation that Ash only traveled through Kanto before Alola.

If any of Ash's post-Kanto Pokemon show up, then that theory's dead.

 

[Wishy-Washy]

*cough*Steelix*cough* Also,

Takeshi: Satoshi's friend, whose goal it is to become a Pokémon Doctor

and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Misty get Gyrados after Johto.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

There's still Rica's interpretation that Ash only traveled through Kanto before Alola.

If any of Ash's post-Kanto Pokemon show up, then that theory's dead.

Iirc, Misty's Gyarados' first main series anime appearance ( minus special episodes) was in AG series. That's enough I guess?

 

[Cresselia92]

*cough*Steelix*cough* Also, Takeshi: Satoshi's friend, whose goal it is to become a Pokémon Doctor.

RS Steven and ORAS Steven are both Champions, and the latter has a Mega Metagross to boot.

Does that make them the same people? No, they belong to alternate dimensions. So who's to say that the incoming Brock and Misty don't both belong to an alternate dimension, detached from OS, alongside Ash and TRio, where things are very similar but not exactly the same?

 

[kantoskies]

Well *technically* the m20 credits cameos were supposed to represent Satoshi meeting his old companions for the first time so he does know them in that continuity.....

I mean that theory is all but dead now but I've learned the hard way that nothing is certain until explicitly stated.

 

[IncineROAR]

The ultimate test of continuity: seeing how dumb Ash acts with the Mega Evolutions of Steelix and Gyarados.

edit: I think all these theories of "this happened before x, and y was before z, but first he explore a before traveling to y and then z" are interesting to read, but I really think the continuity problem that may or may not exist in the anime is due to many writers being involved over the period of 20 years. Clearly there is no ultimate interest in continuity in the anime, or there would be better quality checks in place for the writers to ensure consistency.

However, the reality is, each generation is treated as a start over where Ash's previous experience is disregarded. For the Brock/Misty episodes, the best way to test continuity would Ash to simply say something like "I battled a Mega Gyarados once" and leave it at that. Much like Ash's reference to Dawn's Pipplup in XY ("I met a Pipplup once that was something else").

 

[Pkmndub]

The ultimate test of continuity: seeing how dumb Ash acts with the Mega Evolutions of Steelix and Gyarados.

Since the movies aren't considered canon, Ash won't know what a Mega Steelix is, but will know what Mega Gyarados is