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Pokemon Anime Continuity Discussion Thread

I really don't think the film proves much. This new continuity thing, for me, has the same chance as AG, DP, BW and XY to be discontinuous among themselves too. Like I said in the other thread, unless we have further evidence or a word from the company itself (the hat's too little of an evidence) I have no reason to buy it.

From all I understand it's gonna unwrap an original plot and make a What if of Kanto saga. And that's it.
 
From all I understand it's gonna unwrap an original plot and make a What if of Kanto saga. And that's it.
Nevermind the fact that it's being referred to Ash's origin story, which should logically mean that it's a prequel to SM. Nowhere are the words "what if" used in the marketing.

Also, the sound director saying that SM is not a continuation of XYZ is about as official as such a statement can get. The staff know how controversial a reboot is, so they won't explain it in any interview.
 
Nevermind the fact that it's being referred to Ash's origin story, which should logically mean that it's a prequel to SM. Nowhere are the words "what if" used in the marketing.

Also, the sound director saying that SM is not a continuation of XYZ is about as official as such a statement can get. The staff know how controversial a reboot is, so they won't explain it in any interview.

Sorry, I just read the last thing NOW. So yeah, the director having said that, we have a big chance it's a new continuity. I don't doubt anything on this series, and don't really care what answer's the right one... However it's fun to debate this sort of thing.

BTW of course they wouldn't use what if. Years ago I remember discussions about whether the movies were canon or not.
 
I've said this before in the M20 thread, but since we now have a thread dedicated to this issue, I am going to repeat what I have said before: I think this is still the same continuity and I think that so far we've had enough references to the past that make me confident that this is still the same continuity. Just look at Team Rocket:
- They mention that they left their Pokémon at the HQ (though we aren't told which Pokémon they left there we assume they were Inkay and Gourgeist) - a possible reference to XY (and to BW to an extent, because that's when they started to leave their Pokémon at the HQ)

Irrelevant. We have no idea what Pokémon were contained in those Pokéballs, just like we have no idea which Pokéballs Ash gave to Prof. Oak. They could just have dropped their Kanto team. And saying that they never left their Pokémon at the HQ in OS is a moot point, since Ash never got a Rainbow Wing in OS either.

- Wobbuffet is with them - a reference to Johto and a reference to the end of BW, when Wobbuffet returned

Well, it isn't clear when SM actually happens, though. It could happen right after Johto, or TRio could have gotten Wobbuffet during the gap between M20 and SM. But the easy answer is that Wobbuffet is incredibly popular, so it can bend continuity if it wishes so, and TRio could have it in the movie just for this reason.

- They referenced to their old Ekans and Koffing with their lures - a reference to Kanto

Who says that they won't get them in M20? And who says that they aren't the Pokémon that have been left at the HQ before the beginning of SM?

- Matori has appeared twice - a reference to DP, BW and XY

She could be here for the same reason: popularity. Otherwise, she could just be a character added in the anime cast. I guess her eventual appearance in the movie could help explain this point better.

- They dropped those Solrock and Lunatone souvenirs, hinting at their next destination - a reference to SM

It could be just a nod to the games. Not necessarily the series itself.

- Giovanni and Matori seem to have the same uniforms that we're introduced in XY

Probably because those have become their standard outfits. Again, the movie may help with this specific point.

And there are other minor hints, such as the fact that we've seen the "new" Team Rocket's R logo at the HQ, which was only introduced in BW.

Or it could be a simple graphical update, just like the Charizard episode in BW featured updates which were absent in the original series.

Well, I admit that maybe these aren't the strongest hints/references, but they are hints nonetheless.
So I will still admit that this is the same continuity until I have enough hints against that fact. So far we've only had a tweet and a movie that hasn't even aired yet, and in my opinion I don't think that solid evidence.

Please, explain how the reveal of a person who actually works for the production isn't solid evidence.

Sure, he may be the only one who said that out of the anime staff, but keep in mind that the many people who are working for the anime can't outright reveal and spoil some details due to their contracts. He may have gotten some leeway for some reason. So, I don't think we should give him so little credit just because he is the only one (so far) who has declared this fact.

Anyway, I think it's only a matter of time before the cat comes out of the bag. The only question is when will this happen.
 
Uh? Matori's popular? That woman barely appears and when she does's no more than seconds.

I'm not sure if that's true or not, however doesn't make any sense.
 
Uh? Matori's popular? That woman barely appears and when she does's no more than seconds.

I'm not sure if that's true or not, however doesn't make any sense.

Can't say for sure if the is popular or not, but she could simply have pulled a "Serena". As in, a character which have always been a part of Team Rocket, but who has first appeared only in BW.

Once again, if she will appear in the movie, this will be proof enough that she is part of the new continuity.
 
I think they had Matori appear in SM to have Jessie quarrel with her. It doesn't really matter whether or not she appears in the movie.
 
I've said this before in the M20 thread, but since we now have a thread dedicated to this issue, I am going to repeat what I have said before: I think this is still the same continuity and I think that so far we've had enough references to the past that make me confident that this is still the same continuity. Just look at Team Rocket:
- They mention that they left their Pokémon at the HQ (though we aren't told which Pokémon they left there we assume they were Inkay and Gourgeist) - a possible reference to XY (and to BW to an extent, because that's when they started to leave their Pokémon at the HQ)
- Wobbuffet is with them - a reference to Johto and a reference to the end of BW, when Wobbuffet returned
- They referenced to their old Ekans and Koffing with their lures - a reference to Kanto
- Matori has appeared twice - a reference to DP, BW and XY
- They dropped those Solrock and Lunatone souvenirs, hinting at their next destination - a reference to SM
- Giovanni and Matori seem to have the same uniforms that were introduced in XY
And there are other minor hints, such as the fact that we've seen the "new" Team Rocket's R logo at the HQ, which was only introduced in BW.

Well, I admit that maybe these aren't the strongest hints/references, but they are hints nonetheless.
So I will still admit that this is the same continuity until I have enough hints against that fact. So far we've only had a tweet and a movie that hasn't even aired yet, and in my opinion I don't think that solid evidence.

The problem with leaving Pokémon behind in these new series is that it happens off screen and vague enough to be any kind of Pokémon rather than from the previous series. While it is logical to assume they are referring to Inkay and Gourgeist, the fact they do not mention them by name makes it easy for them to retcon the whole series into a new continuity. It's not like Best Wishes where we clearly see Ash's past achievements as a continuity nod, thus affirming it is within continuity with DP, AG, and OS.

As for Wobbuffet, I remember that Giovanni did not want any non-native Pokémon to enter in Alola due to concerns of attracting attention. While one could argue that Alolan Meowth technically allows regular Meowth to come (and he has human disguises), Wobbuffet is not native to Alola. As such, I feel that Wobbuffet is more likely there for popularity rather than keeping anything continuity, because he broke the continuity of Giovanni's rule.

The lures can be seen as mythology gags rather than continuity references because they never mentioned owning those Pokémon. Same thing with the Solrock and Lunatone souvenirs in XY (especially since neither of those Pokémon are native to Alola).

Matori is the only real Rocket continuity reference that Sun and Moon has for the previous series. However, given her almost non-existent cameo appearances in XY, and the fact the rest of the Rocket organization have yet to appear, it is easy to mistake her for a new character in Sun and Moon. Suffice to say, continuity has gotten weaker with Sun and Moon than any other series. With a different art style and no direct bridges from XY, it is quite understandable to get the impression of a continuity reboot.

It would not surprise me if Sun and Moon ends with Ash graduating from school and the last we see of him is by leaving on a plane with his mother, with no physical visit to Pallet Town. And then when the next series starts, Ash is suddenly in a new region with just Pikachu again, and we get no Pallet Town or Kanto continuity this time around. The only time I can see continuity rebounding is if the anime was taken over by fans of the anime who grew up to be the new writers and producers of the show.
 
The multiple universes theory from the games probably applies.

OS -> AG -> DP -> BW
This continuity is undeniable because of Ash's final photo at the end of BW which shows everyone except those who were released or left somewhere for training.

I assume the end of BW is where the branching point occurs.

BW -> XY
Ash decides to go to Kalos

BW -> SM
Ash doesn't go to Kalos.

I am not going to include the movie just yet until we get another trailer.
 
The multiple universes theory from the games probably applies.

OS -> AG -> DP -> BW
This continuity is undeniable because of Ash's final photo at the end of BW which shows everyone except those who were released or left somewhere for training.

I assume the end of BW is where the branching point occurs.

BW -> XY
Ash decides to go to Kalos

BW -> SM
Ash doesn't go to Kalos.

I am not going to include the movie just yet until we get another trailer.

Problem with that theory is that BW ends with Ash and Alexa boarding on a plane to the Kalos Region. There is no other way around it. The last arc featured the Kalos Pokémon, and Ash's interest in the Kalos Region. Ash gets his XY clothes in BW. And in XY, Ash and Alexa are seen on the plane together.
 
You know my issue with this whole issue? I feel like we are all shaving a bit close with Occam's razor.

In order to reason either that SM & M20 are or aren't in the same continuity as previous series, the arguments we are making are SO tenuous that reading back on posts in these threads is making my head spin.

The simplest (and likeliest) explanation is that the show execs are just doing whatever the hell they please for unknown (to us) financial reasons and that there is no in-universe rationale. This would not be the first time that the anime has pulled some unsatisfying crap on us which we cannot explain away.

Wrt Mima, for whom I have the greatest respect btw, he is no more a decision maker in terms of the anime story than anyone else. He is hugely invested however and moreover vocal about his feelings. He also posts a bunch of crap on Twitter, most of which is 100% legit but some is quite trollish and I know he has led TR fans a little astray on some occasions. I'm not saying he is making this up or that his statement is wrong per se, I just cannot take it at face value on its own and the main "evidence" we have had to back this up so far is from a trailer of which NO FOOTAGE will be retained for the actual film.
 
I assume the end of BW is where the branching point occurs.

BW -> XY
Ash decides to go to Kalos

BW -> SM
Ash doesn't go to Kalos.

I am not going to include the movie just yet until we get another trailer.
Um, we see Ash getting on the plane to Kalos in BW.

And what else do we need to know about the movie? It's a reboot billed as Ash's new origin story.
 
And what else do we need to know about the movie? It's a reboot billed as Ash's new origin story.
Call me conservative, but I think I'd like to see some actual scenes from or, I don't know, maybe the whole of the film before declaring it a cut and dried reboot.
 
Okay. You're conservative.

Also, it doesn't really matter to me if they've made a conscious decision to reboot the show, or they just have no idea what they're doing and are using the 20th anniversary for shits and giggles. The latter is worse, honestly.

Say what you will about BW, but at least it started with an unambiguous continuity nod.
 
The Sound Director tweet doesn't count. Hidden Mew already comfirmed it was mistranslated.
First off, it was Dephender/Adamant who "confirmed" it was mistranslated, not Hidden Mew. Hidden Mew doesn't know Japanese.

Secondly, no, for the last time, it wasn't "mistranslated". The tweets are relatively simple N4 reading level Japanese, translated by someone with N1 proficiency reading and listening and confirmed as such by more than one person who are at least N3 reading.
 
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Some people really want to bury that tweet.
With so much going on in this thread that I don't feel like reading most of it, and I don't know about the tweet and personally I don't care about it. With both the internet and real life, people can easily move words around and changes the whole meaning to their liking. Chances are, after the tweet had been translated, someone changed the words around to their liking to make it go viral and use it to push their point onto people.

I don't know how the Sun and Moon Ash is the "new" Ash when it's the same Ash that we know for 20 years now. Had has gone through Kanto, Orange islands, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, Kalos, and now going through Alola. Ash is acting like almost any other 10 year old since 10 year olds don't always act serious. Go look at pictures and photos of your 10 year old self and try to find moments where you're serious most of the time, or go interact with real life 10 year olds and see that they're just as childish as Ash is since he's also 10 years old.



AAs for the movie, I think that the movie is it's own cannon since it seems like a "What if...." scenario. We all know that the day that Ash meets Misty after he and Pikachu gets in trouble by a flock of Spearow and then seeing Ho-Oh. What if Ash somehow didn't meet Misty after getting in trouble with Spearow, instead Pikachu saved Ash like he did in the main anime and they see Ho-Oh? They will never travel with Misty and Brock since Ash took a different path and met some different trainers like in the movie. I don't know why you need to be so angry about the direction that the movie is taking, just take a moment and think about the what ifs. Sure we don't know why Marshadow is there in the movie, but we'll find out when the movie comes out in 3 months. Think of the movie as an alternate timeline of Ash, the time where he didn't meet Misty and Brock the way he did in the main anime.
 
If there are at least 2 different timelines with Ash then are both Victini movies canon?
 
Please note: The thread is from 7 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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