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Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

wanderist

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Also note Candice and Volkner’s aces being Abomasnow and Luxray

rip Flint

sigh :bulbaFacepalm:

Still excited for the game and I kinda accepted that this was a possibility, but... darn, was really hoping they would at least use Platinum teams for Volkner and Flint.

I suppose on a brighter note, at least their teams in DP are...unique. You can't just bring a ground type to Volkner or Flint and super effective Earthquake everything, I suppose. I remember I actually kinda liked how their teams weren't just their standard type... just didn't like the reason for it.
 

Alola

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Wait a moment, did they just indirectly de-confirm the Platinum Teams for the Gym Leaders and Elite 4? It seems like they made Candice’s and Volkner’s aces the same as DP, so this kind of makes me worried that Masuda told ILCA to stick with the gym leader’s and Elite 4’s bad DP team despite apparently allowing the player to access the Platinum roster. I thought the whole point of adding more variety was so that both players and NPCs could benefit from Sinnoh’s Pokédex expansion. Not only that, but the Platinum outfits are limited to early purchase bonuses.

Why did TPC think it was a good idea to ignore most of the Platinum content save for the players seemingly having more Pokémon options for the main game? The biggest criticisms of DP were mostly solved by Platinum, so flat out disregarding its improvements and features is a baffling decision. And that’s not even getting into the fact that excluding third version features was one of the biggest criticisms of ORAS. Why exactly are they afraid of adapting elements from the game the developers even admitted themselves should have been part of DP in the first place?
Because Masuda is still under the impression that kids of today don't want nor can handle difficulty in a Pokémon game. "DP is easier and simpler than Platinum - we even have Gym Leaders that don't fully use their specialty type! Go with that; they'll just go play with their phones afterwards anyway."
 

Puddle

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If the Gym Leaders and other NPCs are keeping their DP teams, I think it's likely the Sinnoh Pokedex will keep its original listing of 151 Pokemon. The extra Pokemon found in the Underground may, like Alola's Island Scan Pokemon, lack entries in the regional Pokedex.

I actually wouldn't have a problem with this, because it would mean the nostalgia of the original DP roster is being preserved while also giving players the option to acquire more Pokemon if they wish. There might be a National Pokedex in the postgame that contains entries for all 493 available Pokemon.

I'm glad about the Platinum outfits, but disappointed that they're a Mystery Gift. I hate limited-time-only content, because people playing in years to come miss out. I'm looking forward to wearing the Platinum outfit in my first playthrough, but if I want to replay the game in the future I'll have to wear something else, which kind of sucks.
 

Daren

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Why did TPC think it was a good idea to ignore most of the Platinum content save for the players seemingly having more Pokémon options for the main game? The biggest criticisms of DP were mostly solved by Platinum, so flat out disregarding its improvements and features is a baffling decision. And that’s not even getting into the fact that excluding third version features was one of the biggest criticisms of ORAS. Why exactly are they afraid of adapting elements from the game the developers even admitted themselves should have been part of DP in the first place?
Because they do not remotely care about feedback. It's not a case like with some games where you can see patches or later games taking commentary into consideration.
 

Alola

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Wouldn't it make the battles harder, not easier?
I don't know about you, but Candace's Snow Cloak hax with Froslass was a considerable step-up from DP; Ambipom and Octillery aren't exactly threatening in the end game.
 

Esserise

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Because Masuda is still under the impression that kids of today don't want nor can handle difficulty in a Pokémon game. "DP is easier and simpler than Platinum - we even have Gym Leaders that don't fully use their specialty type! Go with that; they'll just go play with their phones afterwards anyway."

I mean you know it’s not just Masuda right? People went apopleptic over the forced Exp Share in this game just recently, but it’s in Arceus too. A lot of this stuff is things that Game Freak as a studio have clearly committed to, not just one guy.

Besides, Gyms not having a single shared weakness, while obviously just a symptom of DP’s lousy Dex in this game, would in theory make the game less easy…

Because they do not remotely care about feedback. It's not a case like with some games where you can see patches or later games taking commentary into consideration.

I think to say that they don’t care about feedback at all is pretty preposterous. There’s plenty of examples of them taking feedback into account and changing things because of it. They just don’t necessarily take all feedback into account to the same degree (but show me a developer who does) and obviously there are some fundamental disagreements at play.
 

RavenRaziel98

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The worst part about the new Exp. Share for me is the Pokémon that I received from trading. I run an Alpha Sapphire at the moment, and because Seedot can be only found in Omega Ruby, I traded my Lotad for one. The problem is, it is always ahead of the rest of my team, although I don't even use it, even for once. While my team was around level 16 - 17, it was already 23, so I had to box it until my team goes up about 25, so that I can take it back and keep using. And of course, I turned it off now to prevent anything like that from happening again.

It is clearly a broken feature for the game itself that doesn't work as it should, causing such complexities for the players.
Yeah, this is especially an issue when they pass the level limitations and stop to obey you :/

I'm glad about the Platinum outfits, but disappointed that they're a Mystery Gift. I hate limited-time-only content, because people playing in years to come miss out. I'm looking forward to wearing the Platinum outfit in my first playthrough, but if I want to replay the game in the future I'll have to wear something else, which kind of sucks.
The only way you could maybe keep you outfits would be if they use the original mystery gift mechanic. That way you could send over the mystery gift card, the only problem would be the access to a second copy of the game and a second console.
 

Kallyle

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If the Gym Leaders and other NPCs are keeping their DP teams, I think it's likely the Sinnoh Pokedex will keep its original listing of 151 Pokemon. The extra Pokemon found in the Underground may, like Alola's Island Scan Pokemon, lack entries in the regional Pokedex.

I actually wouldn't have a problem with this, because it would mean the nostalgia of the original DP roster is being preserved while also giving players the option to acquire more Pokemon if they wish. There might be a National Pokedex in the postgame that contains entries for all 493 available Pokemon.
People aren't really nostalgic for the original roster though; that was the biggest complaint about DP. Doing such a cheap stunt would pretty much be telling the detractors of that limitation "We never wanted the Sinnoh Pokédex expanded in the first place, so we're gonna limit the actual Sinnoh roster so the trainers can stay like they were intended to! However, if you're really so hung up about it, we'll just put more Pokémon in the underground. However, you won't get any decorations beyond statues, and you can kiss the capture the flag mini game and the traps goodbye as a result!"

It turns the whole "solution" to the roster thing into a begrudging addition instead of a unique expansion on Sinnoh's underground. That move just tastes of salty pettiness for not liking their initial bad decisions. It's almost like @Daren said: TPC doesn't care about feedback they received prior, at least not anymore.

I don't think I can really buy these remakes. If it's given to me as a gift, okay. However, these remakes definitely are too focused on nostalgia (for a pair of games GF admitted was not fully up to snuff by their own standards) & streamlining or removing previous content for me to want to purchase for myself. I can't speak for everyone, but interest in these games has officially died off for me.

FWIW, Candice’s Abomasnow didn’t have Blizzard in DP or Platinum, but it does here, and that synergizes with its Snow Warning ability. So there may be more tweaks like that.
While this could be true, we've also had Pokémon use moves in trailers that they don't in the final games. Granted, that's mainly for moves that Pokémon can't learn at all, but that logic could still easily apply to Candice's Abomasnow.
 

Alola

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I mean you know it’s not just Masuda right? People went apopleptic over the forced Exp Share in this game just recently, but it’s in Arceus too. A lot of this stuff is things that Game Freak as a studio have clearly committed to, not just one guy.

Besides, Gyms not having a single shared weakness, while obviously just a symptom of DP’s lousy Dex in this game, would in theory make the game less easy…
I feel like you’re undermining the authority and importance that “one guy” has though, as one of the creators of the franchise and a director of the games (of which he is for BDSP as well). They may decide on these things as a studio, but clearly Masuda has more weight on the executive decisions. And as the person who typically comments on the rationale behind such decisions, Masuda is often who is referred to. But let me rephrase then - apply “Masuda and his team” to my quoted comment.

I also don’t see how it’s fair to apply the Exp Share situation to a game that has a different combat system, but go on I guess. That’s most likely why there isn’t any concern for it in Arceus.

In theory I suppose, but I feel like that sentiment can be argued both ways. If a Gym Leader or Elite Four member doesn’t stick with a type specialty exclusively, players can then use more Pokémon than they could otherwise, which, in theory, could make the battle easier. Guess it’s all relative in that sense or a matter of application. Like, if Candice and Volkner pulled a Raihan, I would have nothing to say - but I doubt that’s going to happen.
 

A Wild Luxray

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I was honestly holding out hope for one last surprise. This was kinda disappointing. I think many expected a new trailer, but it didn't show us anything new.
 

techitisJ

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Thank you new trailer for reminding me that I should probably preorder this game lol. Completely forgot about it till now. I still have to decide on whether or not I want to get the game physical or digital though.

This trailer didn't garner as much hype as the last ones have for me (or well, what the recent presents did), but I'm still looking forward to the new game. It's been a while since I've played a Pokemon game all the way through, quite possibly the last time being my first run-through of Sword and Shield. I've started a few more run-throughs since then, including one of Pokemon Moon, I just don't think I've finished any. So, it will be nice to play Pokemon again. I've made absolutely no progress on my copy of Platinum since BDSP was announced too so it will pretty much be a fresh experience for me.
 

Nicolas721

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Chibi Cyrus is everything I hoped and more.:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Do we have any real reason to worry about the gym leaders using the DP teams or it's just people jumping to conclusions as usual? Candice and Volkner are usually associated with Abomasnow and Luxray so I don't think it proves anything.

I understand people were expecting the postgame but that's usually revealed in November.
 

Puddle

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The only way you could maybe keep you outfits would be if they use the original mystery gift mechanic. That way you could send over the mystery gift card, the only problem would be the access to a second copy of the game and a second console.

I thought about starting some new save files on different user accounts, and getting the Platinum outfit in each of them (assuming you can receive the gift at the beginning of the game), ready for when I want to do new playthroughs in the future. But I'm not sure if I can be bothered lol.
 

Esserise

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I will say that Volkner’s battle background looks pretty sick

It turns the whole "solution" to the roster thing into a begrudging addition instead of a unique expansion on Sinnoh's underground. That move just tastes of salty pettiness for not liking their initial bad decisions. It's almost like @Daren said: TPC doesn't care about feedback they received prior, at least not anymore.

This feels like reading into things way too deep, and way too cynically. Like, people complained about Pokémon availability in DP for a decade, and now ILCA have done something big to fix it (literally acting upon that initial feedback by doing so), and now we’re… bending the narrative to say that they only really did it out of spite? Come on.

While this could be true, we've also had Pokémon use moves in trailers that they don't in the final games. Granted, that's mainly for moves that Pokémon can't learn at all, but that logic could still easily apply to Candice's Abomasnow.

It’s a remote possibility, yes. But not a very likely one.

I feel like you’re undermining the authority and importance that “one guy” has though, as one of the creators of the franchise and a director of the games (of which he is for BDSP as well). They may decide on these things as a studio, but clearly Masuda has more weight on the executive decisions. And as the person who typically comments on the rationale behind such decisions, Masuda is often who is referred to.

I’m of course not saying that Masuda doesn’t have clout - I just think the way people always pin everything on him individually is myopic. He wasn’t the director of SM or SwSh, and yet those games maintained several of the things that people misattribute to Masuda. Ohmori’s fielded just as many questions about the games that he himself oversaw.

I also don’t see how it’s fair to apply the Exp Share situation to a game that has a different combat system, but go on I guess. That’s most likely why there isn’t any concern for it in Arceus.

Combat… doesn’t really have anything to do with it. You’re going to gain exp from catching and battling just like always, and it’s still going to be distributed amongst the whole party. The fact that there’s a Strong/Agile Style mechanic built in or whatever is irrelevant.

In theory I suppose, but I feel like that sentiment can be argued both ways. If a Gym Leader or Elite Four member doesn’t stick with a type specialty exclusively, players can then use more Pokémon than they could otherwise, which, in theory, could make the battle easier.

I feel like I’ve woken up in bizarro world here, because monotype Gyms being boring and easy has been a moderate critique of the series for years - because the only instance (barring self-imposed challenges) in which a monotype Gym is going to cause you some trouble is if you’ve failed to cover your team’s weaknesses. The games have, since literally forever, always encouraged players to build and use diverse teams. If a Gym is compelling a player to use more than one Pokémon rather than just letting Monferno sweep it with its STAB moves, then that is objectively more complex gameplay because it requires you to be prepared for more than one type.

I’m not saying the Gym rosters in DP in particular were well-designed, but as a simple point of fact, bosses with better coverage and team diversity are far more likely to keep players on their toes and to test their knowledge of the game mechanics. Even with a DPP example, consider Volkner - in Platinum, Earthquake is literally the only thing you need in order to ruin his day, because his whole team is susceptible to it. But that’s not the case in DP, where he uses an Ambipom and an Octillery (which is a direct counter to Electric’s only weakness). Meaning that the “Press A to Win” factor is reduced.

I understand people were expecting the postgame but that's usually revealed in November.

ORAS revealed the Delta Episode before launch, and USUM showed off Team Rainbow Rocket, so it wouldn’t have been out-of-place to get some information about the post-game before release, and while I suppose that could still happen, I’m not sure about the chances of a November trailer before release day since all of the trailers for this cycle have been later in the month.

Of course, I expect that a post-game trailer for these games would likely just follow these bullet points:

  • Explore the Battle Zone!
  • Challenge the Battle Tower!
  • Catch Legendary Pokémon! (Heatran, Giratina in Turnback Cave, Cresselia, Regigigas)
  • Something something Pal Park, fill out your National Dex!
 

Puddle

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I will say that Volkner’s battle background looks pretty sick

This game's graphics look gorgeous now they're finished. I might even go as far as to say this is the best-looking Pokemon game to date (at least where battle graphics are concerned. The overworld is more subjective.)

The lakes are beautiful, I love how you can see what's below the water.
 

colours

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i think there's important conversation to be had on Masuda's influence, so i went ahead and made a thread over on pokemon video games to discuss it. not to kill it here, but i don't want it to get buried in-between other conversations about bdsp c:
 

Alola

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I’m of course not saying that Masuda doesn’t have clout - I just think the way people always pin everything on him individually is myopic. He wasn’t the director of SM or SwSh, and yet those games maintained several of the things that people misattribute to Masuda. Ohmori’s fielded just as many questions about the games that he himself oversaw.
Well, it came off that way - just as it may bother you that people may say his name more often than not, I find it equally short-sighted when people don't consider just how much authority he, and the other directors, have creatively regarding these games. He may not have been the director of the games you mentioned, but he largely contributed to & established a precedent for the subsequent directors and staff to reinforce, which they have, as the games shifted to 3D. That's not a misattribution.
Combat… doesn’t really have anything to do with it. You’re going to gain exp from catching and battling just like always, and it’s still going to be distributed amongst the whole party. The fact that there’s a Strong/Agile Style mechanic built in or whatever is irrelevant.
I disagree. As Symbol encounters preside over traditional encounters in Arceus, yet players will still need to have their Pokémon grow stronger and evolve to participate in and overcome certain obstacles and guaranteed key battles, aka combat, there had to be an alternative method for acquiring EXP in place of regular battles; thus, gaining EXP largely from catching Pokémon, and the whole party receiving it at that, is being utilized. Otherwise, that would potentially be a lot of grinding singularly, which could be off putting. This is drastically different from how traditionally main line Pokémon games function, evidently; you didn't need an EXP All to complete Diamond, Pearl, or Platinum given the formula. So, yes - I still see it as a nonsensical comparison. If Arceus followed everything barring the Let's Go games, I would see your point.
 
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