BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[Bolt Strike]

I actually think using the DP Dex makes more sense on the whole. The Platinum Dex has an unintuitive numbering system that wouldn't have made much sense to new players, and it includes Giratina, a Pokemon that presumably doesn't appear in BDSP's main story. I think giving players access to extra Pokemon in the Underground, rather than completely revamping the Pokedex order, is a good compromise.

Later games that expanded the Dex (HGSS, BW2, ORAS, USUM) just renumbered the dex instead of tacking the new ones onto the end. If that was their only issue they could've just renumbered BDSP's Dex as well.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

It wasn't the first time they did that; Misty's Starmie can be a huge pain if you didn't pick Bulbasaur. Roserade might be a step up stat-wise, though.

Actually, Starmie has a slightly higher BST than Roserade (520 compared to 515, which was 505 prior to Gen 6), though Roserade does have much higher Special Attack (125 compared to 100). Starmie is much faster, though (having base 115 Speed while Roserade's is only 90).

 

[venusboi79]

When it comes to the pre-order bonus; I’m assuming it’s because they don’t want to “compete” with the bonuses from their retail partners. Companies pay lots of money for exclusivity (across the board, not just video games). And GF/Nintendo make money from every purchase, regardless of where you pre-order, so there’s no real compelling business move in offering an amazing pre-order bonus themselves.

Granted, I think it would be more enticing if they offered Quick Balls instead of Pokéballs. The gimmick is arbitrary enough (you need to remember to use it before you perform a move, and its still not a guaranteed catch), while still giving a higher catch rate.

Most of the other gimmick balls require specific conditions, Great Balls aren’t really that great (plus, they seem to have the least favorite design when it comes to non-gimmick balls), and giving away a bunch of Ultra Balls at the start of the game feels cheap.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

At the risk of getting mocked, I'm partly relieved with them using the Diamond/Pearl teams instead of Platinum so as not to deal with some of the more frustrating early game bosses like Jupiter's Skuntank.

I haven't played platinum (only a Rom hack with platinum being the base), but when it comes to the difficulty this would probably be less of an issue since exp share is always on.

 

[Puddle]

Later games that expanded the Dex (HGSS, BW2, ORAS, USUM) just renumbered the dex instead of tacking the new ones onto the end. If that was their only issue they could've just renumbered BDSP's Dex as well.

They could have done this, and I was actually hoping they might (I even made a spreadsheet speculating about what the order might be). But I can understand why they didn't want to deviate that much in a remake. B2W2 and USUM overhauled their Pokedexes but HGSS, ORAS and LGPE only made small alterations.

I like smaller Pokedexes and I'm quite nostalgic about the DP roster in spite of its flaws, so I'm happy with the decision they made overall. That being said, if they had revamped the Pokedex I don't think anyone would have complained. It seems that I'm in the minority for feeling nostalgic about specific Pokedex listings, and newcomers wouldn't have noticed the difference.

Perhaps making the "see every Pokemon in Sinnoh" challenge accessible for children and newcomers was a factor in the decision to keep the Pokedex small.

Wait, so Volkner and Flint won't have Electivire/Magmortar?

That's so disappointing.

Spoiler: BDSP leaks

They will in the postgame, it seems.

 

[zoroarctic]

2 days away from being 2 days away.

 

[Bolt Strike]

They could have done this, and I was actually hoping they might (I even made a spreadsheet speculating about what the order might be). But I can understand why they didn't want to deviate that much in a remake. B2W2 and USUM overhauled their Pokedexes but HGSS, ORAS and LGPE only made small alterations.

I like smaller Pokedexes and I'm quite nostalgic about the DP roster in spite of its flaws, so I'm happy with the decision they made overall. That being said, if they had revamped the Pokedex I don't think anyone would have complained. It seems that I'm in the minority for feeling nostalgic about specific Pokedex listings, and newcomers wouldn't have noticed the difference.

And this is where I think they're taking nostalgia too far, I don't think the players that liked DP liked it because of its regional dex, in fact DP's regional dex was pretty hated which is part of the reason why Platinum expanded it in the first place. I doubt there's more than a handful of fans that would've been upset if BDSP had a renumbered Platinum Dex.

Perhaps making the "see every Pokemon in Sinnoh" challenge accessible for children and newcomers was a factor in the decision to keep the Pokedex small.

This wasn't needed either, there have been numerous other games where you just get the National Dex post game without any real restrictions. This would be bringing the bathwater back with the baby, which is why so many fans have been upset with BDSP's approach.

 

[guydee]

At the risk of getting mocked, I'm partly relieved with them using the Diamond/Pearl teams instead of Platinum so as not to deal with some of the more frustrating early game bosses like Jupiter's Skuntank.

Plus the fact that Volkner, Flint, Candice, etc. being forced to have more type-diverse teams would (seemingly, I haven't played the original D/P) make the later bosses harder, which is a plus in my book.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Spoiler: Overview trailer

 

[Kallyle]

And this is where I think they're taking nostalgia too far, I don't think the players that liked DP liked it because of its regional dex, in fact DP's regional dex was pretty hated which is part of the reason why Platinum expanded it in the first place. I doubt there's more than a handful of fans that would've been upset if BDSP had a renumbered Platinum Dex.



This wasn't needed either, there have been numerous other games where you just get the National Dex post game without any real restrictions. This would be bringing the bathwater back with the baby, which is why so many fans have been upset with BDSP's approach.

You know, all of this makes me wonder if we’ll get an explanation in an interview about why these detrimental decisions were kept when both Platinum and later games rectified these unpopular choices beyond “nostalgia.” If we’re lucky, maybe we’ll even get to know why Diamond and Pearl were designed the way they were in the first place!

 

[Bolt Strike]

You know, all of this makes me wonder if we’ll get an explanation in an interview about why these detrimental decisions were kept when both Platinum and later games rectified these unpopular choices beyond “nostalgia.” If we’re lucky, maybe we’ll even get to know why Diamond and Pearl were designed the way they were in the first place!

I would very much like to know what's going on in their heads because this is becoming an unfortunate pattern. ORAS, LGPE, and now BDSP have all reverted gameplay changes made in some of the updated versions when no one wanted or asked for them to do that (quite the opposite in fact). Game journalists should very much be calling them out for it and asking why in interviewers.

 

[Boss1708]

I respect everyone's opinion, but all the unreasonable criticism BDSP is getting just makes me roll my eyes. The game is obviously not perfect (no Pokemon game is) but, for me at least, based on all the leaked information that we have sofar, BDSP is clearly the best Pokemon game in a very long time (since 2012 imo).

It also seems to have a lot more new content than most people acknowledge:

1. Pokemon Hideaways, which make the Pokemon selection much better than DP and even better than Platinum
2. Ramanas Park, with gorgeous looking chambers for every legendary
3. DS sounds, allowing us to use the original music, just like HGSS did
4. Following Pokemon
5. Trainer Customization
6. Renewed Contests
7. Renewed Secret Bases (I think the Pokemon Statues decorations are really cool)
8. The best Pokemon rematches in the history of the franchise, with competitive setups and their Platinum teams, for Gym Leaders, E4 and Champion
8. You can now also battle Dawn/Lucas in postgame
9. Brand New Diglett hunting minigame, relpayable every day for cool rewards
10. New Whistling minigame with up to 6 Pokemon in Amity Square
11. Improved Poke Radar
12. No HMs
13. An improved Battle Tower, where we can now face (and team up with) all of the Sinnoh Gym Leaders, E4 members, Cynthia, the Stat Trainers, and even the Team Galactic Admins, as well as Palmer
14. Expanded amount of Stickers

Needless to say, the games do have some questionable decisions, like excluding some Platinum enhancements (the second button on the Pokétch, some story elements, Looker, Charon, the Villa, and of course the Battle Frontier) but overall, I think the pros are far more than the cons, at least for me.

I also want to remind people, that a lot of Platinum content IS present in BDSP, however:

• expanded Pokemon selection
• Gym Leader rematches (and postgame rematch teams of all major trainers being Platinum based in general)
• Distorsion World (even if just a single room)
• Origin Form Girantina boss battle
• the amount of available Pokemon in Amity Square is expanded like in Platinum

In general, I am really impressed with the amount of love and attention to detail that ILCA have poured in this remake.

 

[Juliko]

Did anyone else have SERIOUS trouble with that Ace Trainer double battle on Route 215 (right before reaching Veilstone City) in the original Diamond/Pearl? Like, I still remember struggling a lot against that Kadabra and Gyarados as a kid, much more so than against any of the Gym Leaders or even Galactic Commanders up to that point. They very much nerfed them in Platinum and gave them completely different teams, and I think that's pretty much the only instance where I actually preferred the Diamond/Pearl one. I remember fighting them in Platinum for the first time and thinking, "Where's the challenge??"

Oh, I do remember struggling with that battle as a kid! I can get around it pretty easily now as an adult, though.

 

[Oriden]

I respect everyone's opinion, but all the unreasonable criticism BDSP is getting just makes me roll my eyes. The game is obviously not perfect (no Pokemon game is) but, for me at least, based on all the leaked information that we have sofar, BDSP is clearly the best Pokemon game in a very long time (since 2012 imo).

It also seems to have a lot more new content than most people acknowledge:

1. Pokemon Hideaways, which make the Pokemon selection much better than DP and even better than Platinum
2. Ramanas Park, with gorgeous looking chambers for every legendary
3. DS sounds, allowing us to use the original music, just like HGSS did
4. Following Pokemon
5. Trainer Customization
6. Renewed Contests
7. Renewed Secret Bases (I think the Pokemon Statues decorations are really cool)
8. The best Pokemon rematches in the history of the franchise, with competitive setups and their Platinum teams, for Gym Leaders, E4 and Champion
8. You can now also battle Dawn/Lucas in postgame
9. Brand New Diglett hunting minigame, relpayable every day for cool rewards
10. New Whistling minigame with up to 6 Pokemon in Amity Square
11. Improved Poke Radar
12. No HMs
13. An improved Battle Tower, where we can now face (and team up with) all of the Sinnoh Gym Leaders, E4 members, Cynthia, and even the Team Galactic Admins, as well as Palmer
14. Expanded amount of Stickers

Needless to say, the games do have some questionable decisions, like excluding some Platinum enhancements (the second button on the Pokétch, some story elements, Looker, Charon, the Villa, and of course the Battle Frontier) but overall, I think the pros are far more than the cons, at least for me.

I also want to remind people, that a lot of Platinum content IS present in BDSP, however:

• expanded Pokemon selection
• Gym Leader rematches (and postgame rematch teams of all major trainers being Platinum based in general)
• Distorsion World (even if just a single room)
• Origin Form Girantina boss battle
• the amount of available Pokemon in Amity Square is expanded like in Platinum

In general, I am really impressed with the amount of love and attention to detail that ILCA have poured in this remake.

Best pokemon game seems like a hell of a stretch to me... I played Diamond and this is literally just Diamond.

As for the new content, it's mostly just meeting the series' new standards (customization, no HMs) or compensating for the fact that it isn't 2006 and Gen 4 isn't the most recent generation (hideaways, Ramanas Park). As for the secret bases, they actually stripped them of features so its only use is to operate the hideaways (so now we're losing content for compensation content) and I'm pretty sure they took a lot out of contests too (though I admit I'm not too familiar with contests because I never much cared for them).

So what's left is just kind of updated content... and a diglett mini game conceptually ported from Sword and Shield.

BDSP are unarguably updated versions of Diamond and Pearl, but they don't really add anything new on their own, that isn't just compensating for something else.

The improved battles sound nice though, seems like ILCA should be put in charge of those from now on.

 

[Boss1708]

I totally stand by what I said earlier: IF everything that has been leaked sofar is true, BDSP will be the best Pokemon game we've had since the 3D era started in 2013. I think BDSP is definitely better than XY, ORAS, SM, USUM, LGPE and SwSh.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I respect everyone's opinion, but all the unreasonable criticism BDSP is getting just makes me roll my eyes. The game is obviously not perfect (no Pokemon game is) but, for me at least, based on all the leaked information that we have sofar, BDSP is clearly the best Pokemon game in a very long time (since 2012 imo).

Yeah, I'm not sure where you're getting this from. This game has been par for the course for Pokemon.

It also seems to have a lot more new content than most people acknowledge:

I'm aware, and I think everyone else criticizing BDSP is too. The problem is that much of the "new content" is minor QoL improvements that most modern Pokemon games have now and the game is lacking major new features and in fact even strips down content from existing features. It's not being acknowledged because it's not seen as significant.

Spoiler: Leaks

1. Pokemon Hideaways, which make the Pokemon selection much better than DP and even better than Platinum

Not really. You only get Platinum Dex Pokemon until post game and then it opens up into 1st-4th gen. This is just what DPPt were, there's no real improvement here.

2. Ramanas Park, with gorgeous looking chambers for every legendary

Just like the Hoopa portals in ORAS, Ultra Warp Ride in USUM, and Dynamax Adventures in CT. It's just a mechanic to cram in every legendary to a small

3. DS sounds, allowing us to use the original music, just like HGSS did

It's music. Not really a major feature. A great

4. Following Pokemon

This was also in LGPE and IoA/CT. It's starting to become a staple feature now.

5. Trainer Customization

Every game since XY except ORAS, and even then this is a nerfed version of customization.

6. Renewed Contests

"Renewed" by stripping it down to be a rhythm minigame. That's not really an improvement.

7. Renewed Secret Bases (I think the Pokemon Statues decorations are really cool)

"Renewed" by stripping it down to a Pokemon unlocking system while removing the decorations and flags which is what made them so fun and engaging to begin with.

9. Brand New Diglett hunting minigame, relpayable every day for cool rewards

It's a short little minigame, not really a major feature.

10. New Whistling minigame with up to 6 Pokemon in Amity Square

Not really seeing a "whistling minigame" anywhere, they just included the ability to make Poffins with them and whistle to call them to you. Again, minor improvements.

11. Improved Poke Radar

They just tweaked the chaining and odds. They didn't add any new features (aside from letting you find HAs) or anything.

12. No HMs

HMs have been gone since SM.

13. An improved Battle Tower, where we can now face (and team up with) all of the Sinnoh Gym Leaders, E4 members, Cynthia, the Stat Trainers, and even the Team Galactic Admins, as well as Palmer

Basically the same thing with a different AI partner. Again, not really that big.

14. Expanded amount of Stickers

Not really "content" as much as a cosmetic option.

Needless to say, the games do have some questionable decisions, like excluding some Platinum enhancements (the second button on the Pokétch, some story elements, Looker, Charon, the Villa, and of course the Battle Frontier) but overall, I think the pros are far more than the cons, at least for me.

I also want to remind people, that a lot of Platinum content IS present in BDSP, however:

• expanded Pokemon selection
• Gym Leader rematches (and postgame rematch teams of all major trainers being Platinum based in general)
• Distorsion World (even if just a single room)
• Origin Form Girantina boss battle
• the amount of available Pokemon in Amity Square is expanded like in Platinum

Disagreed. The things they removed were major, you have entire quests and extra features removed (the story elements, the Battle Frontier, the Villa), and the things they kept were minor references and features, most of which is just shoved into the post game.

All in all, these games stripped out more than they added. Every improvement you mentioned is a minor QoL feature or tweak, whereas there have been major features outright excluded or stripped down. Where are the new areas like the Sevii Islands (FRLG), Rt. 47/48/Safari Zone and the returning Kanto areas (HGSS), and even the Mirage Spots (ORAS)? Where are the new features like Berry Crush, Two Island Game Corner, Altering Cave, Trainer Tower (FRLG), Pokeathlon, Safari Zone, Battle Frontier (HGSS), or the Pokeradar, Soaring, Mirage Spots, Delta Episode (ORAS)? BDSP is sorely lacking that kind of content to compensate for what was missing. So not only does it not feel like the best Pokemon game in recent years, it feels like one of the worst. If you still like what's on offer that's fine, but I don't see how you can defend what they've done with BDSP overall as an "improvement". It's a lateral move at best and a step backwards at worst.

 

[Oriden]

I totally stand by what I said earlier: IF everything that has been leaked sofar is true, BDSP will be the best Pokemon game we've had since the 3D era started in 2013. I think BDSP is definitely better than XY, SM, USUM, LGPE and SwSh.

Basically saying that Diamond and Pearl were the best pokemon games we've ever had, which I'm pretty sure hasn't been true since Gen 4. But that's all subjective opinion anyway.

Personally, I think Sun and Moon are possibly the best 3D games we've had so far- every single pokemon, still had mega evolutions, actual new content, trainer customization, no HMs, the ability to ride pokemon, an actually interesting story that involves a character fusing with a pokemon creature from another dimension... but Legends actually looks like it'll be the most fun I've had in a pokemon game since Gen 2.

 

[Boss1708]

Yeah, I'm not sure where you're getting this from. This game has been par for the course for Pokemon.

Nah.

I'm aware, and I think everyone else criticizing BDSP is too. The problem is that much of the "new content" is minor QoL improvements that most modern Pokemon games have now and the game is lacking major new features and in fact even strips down content from existing features. It's not being acknowledged because it's not seen as significant.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Not really. You only get Platinum Dex Pokemon until post game and then it opens up into 1st-4th gen. This is just what DPPt were, there's no real improvement here.

I don't remember the starters being available in the wild, in DPPt, do you?

Just like the Hoopa portals in ORAS, Ultra Warp Ride in USUM, and Dynamax Adventures in CT. It's just a mechanic to cram in every legendary to a small

The ones you mention were welcome additions in those games. Same case here.

It's music. Not really a major feature. A great

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

This was also in LGPE and IoA/CT. It's starting to become a staple feature

Not really a staple feature, considering it is not available in mainland Galar.

Every game since XY except ORAS, and even then this is a nerfed version of customization.

ORAS is literally the only remake precedent we have. So... clearly they could've done the same in BDSP.

"Renewed" by stripping it down to be a rhythm minigame. That's not really an improvement.

Renewed by making it actually playable. DPPt Contests were really convoluted imo.

Renewed" by stripping it down to a Pokemon unlocking system while removing the decorations and flags which is what made them so fun and engaging to begin with.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

It's a short little minigame, not really a major feature.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

Not really seeing a "whistling minigame" anywhere, they just included the ability to make Poffins with them and whistle to call them to you. Again, minor improvements.

From what I understand, it is like a hide and seek minigame? Not sure yet, but looks fun regardless.

They just tweaked the chaining and odds. They didn't add any new features (aside from letting you find HAs) or anything.

Still an improvement.

HMs have been gone since SM.

They could've returned because BDSP is supposed to be a faithful remake.

Basically the same thing with a different AI partner. Again, not really that big.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Not really "content" as much as a cosmetic option.

Sticker customization is content.

Disagreed. The things they removed were major, you have entire quests and extra features removed (the story elements, the Battle Frontier, the Villa), and the things they kept were minor references and features, most of which is just shoved into the post game.

So what if it is in the postgame?

All in all, these games stripped out more than they added.

Nah.

Where are the new areas like the Sevii Islands (FRLG), Rt. 47/48/Safari Zone and the returning Kanto areas (HGSS), and even the Mirage Spots (ORAS)?

The Pokemon Hideaways are literally new areas

Where are the new features like Berry Crush, Two Island Game Corner, Altering Cave, Trainer Tower (FRLG), Pokeathlon, Safari Zone, Battle Frontier (HGSS), or the Pokeradar, Soaring, Mirage Spots, Delta Episode (ORAS)?

I am not going to bother giving you examples, because anything I could say you're going to brush off as "not important".

So not only does it not feel like the best Pokemon game in recent years, it feels like one of the worst. If you still like what's on offer that's fine, but I don't see how you can defend what they've done with BDSP overall as an "improvement". It's a lateral move at best and a step backwards at worst.

Nah.

 

[Boss1708]

Basically saying that Diamond and Pearl were the best pokemon games we've ever had, which I'm pretty sure hasn't been true since Gen 4. But that's all subjective opinion anyway.

Personally, I think Sun and Moon are possibly the best 3D games we've had so far- every single pokemon, still had mega evolutions, actual new content, trainer customization, no HMs, the ability to ride pokemon, an actually interesting story that involves a character fusing with a pokemon creature from another dimension... but Legends actually looks like it'll be the most fun I've had in a pokemon game since Gen 2.

Firstly, BDSP are superior to DP. They are at least on par with Platinum, imo.

Second, I am not saying BDSP is the best game of all time, just the best since 2012. There's a big difference.

Third, I think SM felt unfinished (USUM was solid, tho), but I think Legends Arceus looks quite boring, so if you like it so much, it just means we have very different tastes in what a good Pokemon game should be, so maybe that's why our opinions differ. Agree to disagree!

 

[silurica]

I'm one of those who are sad that they stripped down underground secret base so much - that they removed the various decorations and the flag game is fact, not just opinion. Heck, I'd even say it's not the same thing anymore in BDSP outside of its name, and personally I don't think hideaway control room is anywhere near as cute or fun as personalizing a room to your liking.