BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[Oriden]

flashbacks to me being "like Ash", only catching 6 main Pokémon, and <10 Pokémon in storage

=( I'm sorry your life is lacking in fossils.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

XD Nostalgia angle, then, I guess? If you don't have D/P/Pt and think of them fondly, this is certainly an opportunity.

I recommend filling three boxes full of cranidos when you play, though. Those without 30+ cranidos in their PC are living an unfulfilling life.

That or Shieldon. Shieldon is cuter anyway (I just hate Palkia).

Yup, always liked Shieldon more but have never been able to get one ^^

 

[Boss1708]

Both things are subjective. All the posts that I've quoted did not mention that it’s "just" their opinion that BDSP are the best games. They were, paraphrasing "BDSP as the best games ever, period. "BDSP are clearly the best games". Whereas, myself and people like @Oriden and many others clearly mention it’s our opinion

Maybe you should improve your reading comprehension, instead of misrepresenting what people say?

I'm quoting myself here:

The game is obviously not perfect (no Pokemon game is) but, for me at least, based on all the leaked information that we have sofar, BDSP is clearly the best Pokemon game in a very long time (since 2012 imo).

I totally stand by what I said earlier: IF everything that has been leaked sofar is true, BDSP will be the best Pokemon game we've had since the 3D era started in 2013. I think BDSP is definitely better than XY, ORAS, SM, USUM, LGPE and SwSh.

I will say it once again, in my opinion, BDSP is clearly the best game of the 3D era (better than XY, ORAS, SM, USUM, LGPE and SwSh).

And it is also the second best remake we've had sofar, only surpassed by HGSS, but superior to FRLG, ORAS and LGPE.

We are clearly stating that's our own opinions.

 

[Oriden]

Yup, always liked Shieldon more but have never been able to get one ^^

I traded a cranidos for a friend's shieldon ages ago and it's my one oddball baby in my cranidos boxes! It's such a cutie and has pleasant colors, but it's a shame Bastiodon isn't so cute. Not that Rampardos is much better.

Also a shame to not get the digging mini game with Amaura and Tyrunt fossils. Those two are easily my favorite fossil pair.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

I traded a cranidos for a friend's shieldon ages ago and it's my one oddball baby in my cranidos boxes! It's such a cutie and has pleasant colors, but it's a shame Bastiodon isn't so cute. Not that Rampardos is much better.

Also a shame to not get the digging mini game with Amaura and Tyrunt fossils. Those two are easily my favorite fossil pair.

This would've required having friends to begin with
To be honest, I don't even remember which fossil I chose at Y even though it's not even two years back.

 

[Oriden]

This would've required having friends to begin with
To be honest, I don't even remember which fossil I chose at Y even though it's not even two years back.

I missed Gen 6 because I waited for Pokemon Z to come out. =(

 

[FelipePR]

This week my anxiety and enthusiasm was growing for the game releases, then I saw GameSpot pre-review.

Well, they fixed the navigation problem, this is, the need for HM slaves, which was without a doubt the biggest issue in fourth generation games. And the undreground looks refreshing with its biomes and visible Pokémon allowing you to choose between fighting them or not.

Even though, the video and the review don't entice me at all, I still have the feeling that something invigorating is lacking in the game for those who have already experienced the original versions. I hope the game proves me wrong.

 

[Oriden]

This week my anxiety and enthusiasm was growing for the game releases, then I saw GameSPot pre-review.

Well, they fixed the navigation problem, this is, the need for HM slaves, which was without a doubt the biggest issue in fourth generation games. And the undreground looks refreshinfg with its biomes and visible Pokémon allowing you to choose between fighting it or not.

Even though, the video and the review don't entice me at all, I still have the feeling that something invigorating is lacking in the game for those who have already experienced the original versions. I hope the game proves me wrong.

I like your last point there because the wording hits home! It is lacking enticement and vigor. =(

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Maybe you should improve your reading comprehension, instead of misrepresenting what people say?

I'm quoting myself here:





We are clearly stating that's our own opinions, and we are fully aware they aren't facts.

I did misread there. Apologies for that. But the rest of my points stand.

 

[Bolt Strike]

How come when someone says that BDSP are the worst games, worse than Platinum etc, no-one bats an eyelid, yet when someone praises BDSP and calls them the best games we've had in a while, they get rounded on with comments like "you haven't played the game yet", "that's a subjective opinion" etc? I can't help feeling like there are double standards in this thread.

It's because the people saying they're "best games" aren't really doing much to explain their opinions. If you really want your opinion not to be questioned, you have to provide detail on why you feel that way about the game, otherwise other people are going to think "Wait, you're not seeing the game the way I see the game?" and come out of the woodwork to debate it. Just stating what your opinion is is kind of hollow. Anyone can state that they like a game for any number of reasons, so just stating a verdict of "I like/don't like this" isn't very convincing. Supplementing your opinions with supporting evidence goes a lot further towards creating a stance on the games that other people can understand and sympathize with. Now that's not to say you're not allowed to have your opinion, but a weakly supported opinion tends to invite more criticism.

And what's especially not being done by the "best games" side of the debate is they're not comparing to other games and explaining what these games are doing better than others. Because if you're trying to claim a game is the best game, it's not enough to just say "I like X, Y, and Z" because "X, Y, and Z" could also be in another game, you have to explain "I like X, Y, and Z in this game better than A, B, and C in other games". This was the crux of my counterargument to @Boss1708, he did list a lot of features the games improved on, but in each of the individual points he mentioned I could basically say "But... other games did this too". So that's not really strong support in favor of these games being good games. From a logical standpoint, if you're going to identify a game as "best game" you need to be able to identify a quality that this game does that all other games do not. And that includes everything, the original DP, Platinum, other remakes, even other totally unrelated Pokemon games like new generations and third versions of different regions.

The problem is that what we know about this game and what we can see with our eyes definitely seems to support these games being not so great. Instead of having several qualities that make this better games than all other games, I'm seeing a lot more qualities that make this game worse than all other games (things like a refusal to update the graphical style to SwSh's style, a lack of new features, a lack of new Pokemon, etc.). So that makes the "these are good games" side a much tougher argument, and therefore it's a much less popular opinion. And unfortunately being a minority opinion means you'll have more critics, so it's an uphill battle.

 

[CynthiaLover]

Okay, I've been looking into the reviews of these games via Youtube. The reviews shown are pretty positive, with the lowest score so far being 7/10 while the highest I've seen is 9/10. I consider that a good sign. The reviews also noted that, unlike past games in recent years, these games don't hold your hand apart from the mandatory catching tutorial, which is good as you're not being bogged down by countless tutorials (such as Gen 7). The games pretty much thrust you into them like the original DP, so that should mitigate some of the complaints about hand-holding. They did note that the difficulty is slightly wonky, being somewhat skewered in the player's favor, but at the same time they mentioned that the game's natural level curve does mitigate the issue to a degree, especially in later battles and post-game, which is another good sign. They do mention that the "harder" battles (main game, anyway) are in the Grand Underground due to how it's scaled to your progress, but overall the difficulty curve seems to be pretty stable compared to how broken it could be in games like SWSH (especially since there seems to be a lack of EXP Candy in these games, which pretty much broke SWSH into itty-bitty pieces). The reviews also note that the QoL changes do smooth out the rougher edges that were in the original Gen 4 games, making them more user-friendly despite not holding your hand much. So, overall, these games look to be pretty solid, as the reviews have been pretty positive. They're not the greatest games in the history of Pokemon, but it appears they do what they're suppose to do and are able to stand on their own as part of the franchise.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

Okay, I've been looking into the reviews of these games via Youtube. The reviews shown are pretty positive, with the lowest score so far being 7/10 while the highest I've seen is 9/10. I consider that a good sign. The reviews also noted that, unlike past games in recent years, these games don't hold your hand apart from the mandatory catching tutorial, which is good as you're not being bogged down by countless tutorials (such as Gen 7). The games pretty much thrust you into them like the original DP, so that should mitigate some of the complaints about hand-holding. They did note that the difficulty is slightly wonky, being somewhat skewered in the player's favor, but at the same time they mentioned that the game's natural level curve does mitigate the issue to a degree, especially in later battles and post-game, which is another good sign. They do mention that the "harder" battles (main game, anyway) are in the Grand Underground due to how it's scaled to your progress, but overall the difficulty curve seems to be pretty stable compared to how broken it could be in games like SWSH (especially since there seems to be a lack of EXP Candy in these games, which pretty much broke SWSH into itty-bitty pieces). The reviews also note that the QoL changes do smooth out the rougher edges that were in the original Gen 4 games, making them more user-friendly despite not holding your hand much. So, overall, these games look to be pretty solid, as the reviews have been pretty positive. They're not the greatest games in the history of Pokemon, but it appears they do what they're suppose to do and are able to stand on their own as part of the franchise.

I've stayed away from reviews and stuff like that because I wanted to avoid unnecessary spoilers. After what I've just read I'm really happy - or like one of my favorite memes would describe it: Skeletor is pleased ^^

 

[Bolt Strike]

Okay, I've been looking into the reviews of these games via Youtube. The reviews shown are pretty positive, with the lowest score so far being 7/10 while the highest I've seen is 9/10. I consider that a good sign. The reviews also noted that, unlike past games in recent years, these games don't hold your hand apart from the mandatory catching tutorial, which is good as you're not being bogged down by countless tutorials (such as Gen 7). The games pretty much thrust you into them like the original DP, so that should mitigate some of the complaints about hand-holding. They did note that the difficulty is slightly wonky, being somewhat skewered in the player's favor, but at the same time they mentioned that the game's natural level curve does mitigate the issue to a degree, especially in later battles and post-game, which is another good sign. They do mention that the "harder" battles (main game, anyway) are in the Grand Underground due to how it's scaled to your progress, but overall the difficulty curve seems to be pretty stable compared to how broken it could be in games like SWSH (especially since there seems to be a lack of EXP Candy in these games, which pretty much broke SWSH into itty-bitty pieces). The reviews also note that the QoL changes do smooth out the rougher edges that were in the original Gen 4 games, making them more user-friendly despite not holding your hand much. So, overall, these games look to be pretty solid, as the reviews have been pretty positive. They're not the greatest games in the history of Pokemon, but it appears they do what they're suppose to do and are able to stand on their own as part of the franchise.

NintendoLife gave the games a 6/10 actually. They nicked it for the artstyle, lack of Platinum content, and lack of overworld encounters outside the Hideaways (which is kind of a weird complaint since overworld encounters as they are in LGPE and SwSh wouldn't quite fit the chibi style, but that would've been a great improvement). I definitely think the lack of larger improvements (beyond QoL features) is a good reason not to give a positive verdict on the games so I'm annoyed that the reviewers are endlessly praising the games yet again (although I do have to praise NintendoLife for finally having the guts to criticize a Pokemon game finally), but base DP is still a better game than most IMO, so it's not that egregious.

 

[CynthiaLover]

NintendoLife gave the games a 6/10 actually. They nicked it for the artstyle, lack of Platinum content, and lack of overworld encounters outside the Hideaways (which is kind of a weird complaint since overworld encounters as they are in LGPE and SwSh wouldn't quite fit the chibi style, but that would've been a great improvement). I definitely think the lack of larger improvements (beyond QoL features) is a good reason not to give a positive verdict on the games so I'm annoyed that the reviewers are endlessly praising the games yet again, but base DP is still a better game than most IMO, so it's not that egregious.

I was actually just about to watch NintendoLife's review when you quoted me, as I had missed that review at first. The reviewers I saw did acknowledge the complaints you mentioned, like lack of Platinum content and the chibi models, so it wasn't total praise. But they generally do feel the games are good overall. They acknowledged that the games aren't perfect nor are they up to the same level compared to past remakes, but the reviews are still positive enough to warrant them as pretty solid games.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I was actually just about to watch NintendoLife's review when you quoted me, as I had missed that review at first. The reviewers I saw did acknowledge the complaints you mentioned, like lack of Platinum content and the chibi models, so it wasn't total praise. But they generally do feel the games are good overall. They acknowledged that the games aren't perfect nor are they up to the same level compared to past remakes, but the reviews are still positive enough to warrant them as pretty solid games.

Eh, interpretation of review scores tend to vary, but generally review scored tend to be assigned on a school grading scale (9 or 10 is an A, 8 is a B, 7 is a C, 6 is a D, 5 or less is an F). Usually 6 or 7 is considered a mixed review, not a positive review. And the tone of the review does seem to imply that there were some good points, but sorely lacking so I don't think they actually did find it good overall (throughout the review they say things like "this feature is disappointing", "Platinum did this feature better", etc., you don't say things like that if you find the game good), that sounds more like they thought it was okay. If you want your games to have good reviews, you generally want them to be getting 8's, 9's, and 10's (although again, it varies, I've seen some people say they think an 8 is just okay, but overall I've seen many people say they think 8's are good).

 

[FelipePR]

...and lack of overworld encounters outside the Hideaways (which is kind of a weird complaint since overworld encounters as they are in LGPE and SwSh wouldn't quite fit the chibi style, but that would've been a great improvement).

One of the things that saddens me in this remake is precisely the lack of wild overworld Pokemons. Well, I know this is a recent feature in Pokémon Games, but it's a feature that definitely made the games better for me.

It's a delight in Sword and Shield to explore and re-explore areas in search of finding new items and capturing new Pokémon. Seriously, Sword and Shield was the first Pokémon game that I felt inspired about completing Pokedéx, and given the franchise's proposal, I believe that says a lot.

Having Overworld Pokémon is even more than avoiding unnecessary battles, it's about surprising the player, bringing more personality and life to the environment, and even to the Pokémon.

And Sinnoh was one of the regions richest in exploration, with non-linear routes routes and many unique landmarks, although navigation was hampered by the excessive need for multiple HMs. Well, they kind of sorted that out in the remakes, but I think they could do more in favor of exploration.

 

[CynthiaLover]

Eh, interpretation of review scores tend to vary, but generally review scored tend to be assigned on a school grading scale (9 or 10 is an A, 8 is a B, 7 is a C, 6 is a D, 5 or less is an F). Usually 6 or 7 is considered a mixed review, not a positive review. And the tone of the review does seem to imply that there were some good points, but sorely lacking so I don't think they actually did find it good overall, that sounds more like they thought it was okay. If you want your games to have good reviews, you generally want them to be getting 8's, 9's, and 10's (although again, it varies, I've seen some people say they think an 8 is just okay, but overall I've seen many people say they think 8's are good).

Meh, I'm willing to trust a 7 or higher review on a game over something like a movie critic's review on certain movies. Some people I know elsewhere feel that a 7 is a "B" when it comes to game reviews, something that I agree with. The fact that these games have scored mostly 7-9 is still a good sign if you ask me. While I do accept NintendoLife's review, as they do have some good points, the fact that most reviews have been generally positive overall does inspire confidence. At least they won't be as polarizing as SWSH was, where the reviewers and player base where pretty much on opposite sides of the spectrum.

 

[Puddle]

It's because the people saying they're "best games" aren't really doing much to explain their opinions.

I get what you mean, but at the same time, I think people should be able to enjoy the things they enjoy without having to explain themselves. There's nothing wrong with asking someone to elaborate out of genuine curiosity, but sometimes people simply shut down other people's enthusiasm, and don't show any interest in hearing more about why they think the way they do. This isn't something that's unique to this forum or even to the Pokemon fandom, I see it in other fandoms too.

In answer to your earlier question about why I think BDSP are on par with HGSS content-wise... the two games share a lot of the same features, for example:

• Pokemon following you
• Updates to features from the original games
• A new area that improves the selection of available Pokemon (Safari Zone/Pokemon Hideaways)
• Quests to find Legendary Pokemon that weren't available in the originals

HGSS has a few features that BDSP lacks, like the Battle Frontier. But BDSP also has features that HGSS lacks, like trainer customisation and an alternative to HMs (the positive impact of the latter on player enjoyment can't be underestimated). So on the whole, I think they're about even. (I never much liked the Battle Frontier so this part is perhaps a little subjective, I'll admit.)

And if most of BDSP's improvements are simply the standard for Pokemon games nowadays, then I think that just goes to show that Game Freak are putting more effort into their games than some fans will care to admit.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Meh, I'm willing to trust a 7 or higher review on a game over something like a movie critic's review on certain movies. Some people I know elsewhere feel that a 7 is a "B" when it comes to game reviews, something that I agree with. The fact that these games have scored mostly 7-9 is still a good sign if you ask me. While I do accept NintendoLife's review, as they do have some good points, the fact that most reviews have been generally positive overall does inspire confidence. At least they won't be as polarizing as SWSH was, where the reviewers and player base where pretty much on opposite sides of the spectrum.

You can't really say that it won't be polarizing without knowing the fans' opinions. And considering that there's been fans that have been critical... yeah I'm inclined to think it actually will be.

I get what you mean, but at the same time, I think people should be able to enjoy the things they enjoy without having to explain themselves. There's nothing wrong with asking someone to elaborate out of genuine curiosity, but sometimes people simply shut down other people's enthusiasm, and don't show any interest in hearing more about why they think the way they do. This isn't something that's unique to this forum or even to the Pokemon fandom, I see it in other fandoms too.

Shutting down people's opinions and not showing interest in your opinions is a completely different matter (that's something to bring up with the mods), but other than that people have a right to express constructive criticisms of your opinions as much as you have a right to express your opinions. You shouldn't let that affect your enjoyment, but if it does just ignore them.

• A new area that improves the selection of available Pokemon (Safari Zone/Pokemon Hideaways)

I don't think you can really compare HGSS' efforts to improve Pokemon selection to BDSP's. The problem with BDSP is that Platinum already had Platinum Dex Pokemon in the main game and all three had an increased selection of Pokemon in the post game. That's nothing new to BDSP. The HGSS Safari Zone added some Pokemon to the main game that were previously only post game in GSC and combined with improvements to other special encounter methods (expanded Swarm lists, Hoenn/Sinnoh sound, post game Headbutt trees either in Kanto or only accessible via Rock Climb, post game Bug Catching Contest expansions), added a large number of 3rd and 4th gen Pokemon that never existed in GSC period. Hideaways and Ramanas Park didn't quite expand BDSP's Pokemon selection to the same degree of having new, previously post game Pokemon in the main game and having completely new Pokemon that didn't exist in the originals.

And if most of BDSP's improvements are simply the standard for Pokemon games nowadays, then I think that just goes to show that Game Freak are putting more effort into their games than some fans will care to admit.

This is not necessarily true, as it depends on how much effort it takes to implement each feature. It's hard to say, but I don't think features like following Pokemon and customization really took a lot of effort to implement, whereas I think features like the Battle Frontier and Pokeathlon took much more effort. I'm not at all convinced that the games are taking more effort (or if they are, the effort is shifting towards the 3D/HD graphics and away from the content).

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Meh, I'm willing to trust a 7 or higher review on a game over something like a movie critic's review on certain movies. Some people I know elsewhere feel that a 7 is a "B" when it comes to game reviews, something that I agree with. The fact that these games have scored mostly 7-9 is still a good sign if you ask me. While I do accept NintendoLife's review, as they do have some good points, the fact that most reviews have been generally positive overall does inspire confidence. At least they won't be as polarizing as SWSH was, where the reviewers and player base where pretty much on opposite sides of the spectrum.

That bit reminds me of IGN's review of Swords and Shield, where the comments were practically either outraged or laughing at them calling it a good game. Granted, IGN doesn't have the best track record in reviewing Pokémon games, but still.