BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[Norzan]

More importantly, I think the main people reason dislike it is the preservation aspect. Something about how when the Switch’s online services inevitably shut down, people who didn’t but the game already will forever experience it incomplete, iirc.

Now that you mentioned that, does that mean that the people that bought the physical version after the Switch servers are shutdown are kind of screwed? Because you have to download portions of the game when you put the physical cart into the Switch.

If that's what ends up happening, that's a big yikes from me.

 

[Boss1708]

I don't think that's why people are complaining about the Day 1 Patch, though. First of all, some people simply greater prefer playing a physical release of a game, so the argument of "just buy the digital version if you don't wanna wait for the patch to download" isn't really that... good.

More importantly, I think the main people reason dislike it is the preservation aspect. Something about how when the Switch’s online services inevitably shut down, people who didn’t but the game already will forever experience it incomplete, iirc.

Honestly I understand that some people prefer to buy the game physical. However, seeing how there has been reports of Pokemon cartridges suddenly breaking/stopped working (I think it was ORAS or XY?) I think buying Pokemon games digital is a lot wiser. A digital game can never "stop working". That's why I bought both Sword and Shining Pearl digital, and I'm really happy about that.

As for what you said about people who want to buy BDSP in the future, when the Switch servers don't work anymore, I think this won't be a problem because I think future BDSP cartridges will probably come pre-patched, which would fix the problem.

Either way, I am someone who really worries about game preservation, and that's exactly why I vastly prefer digital purchase of Pokemon games. I just don't trust physical cartridges in the long run.

 

[guydee]

However, seeing how there has been reports of Pokemon cartridges suddenly breaking/stopped working (I think it was ORAS or XY?)

I... did not know about this. Even though ORAS is the greatest thing, that's... yikes. Anyway,

I think buying Pokemon games digital is a lot wiser. A digital game can never "stop working". That's why I bought both Sword and Shining Pearl digital, and I'm really happy about that.

Yeah, me too. But just because all this doesn't bother you or me doesn't mean that Game Freak/The Pokémon Company International/ILCA/WHATEVER shouldn't put in that extra effort so that those who AREN'T us have a good experience as well. Things like this are the one thing I will say is objectively bad about "modern" Pokémon.

EDIT: Like, I get much more immersed in the games that are 3D, I think the Dex cut will be a positive decision for the series moving forward, but this? Uh-uh.

 

[silurica]

I'd say no media is 100% foolproof from being lost unless if people keep passing on the tape. Even memory cards are just as prone to breaking, and cloud can be lost if the company hosting it decide they can't keep it up anymore.

That said, I don't think it's fair that some people got to have an incomplete game just because they chose to store their media differently. Also physicals often have sentimental value as collection that digital simply lacks imo, speaking as someone who streams music but still likes collecting CDs.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

99% of the bugs in BDSP (and in any other Pokemon game, for that matter) are actively forced by the player.

Someone playing Pokemon normally, is likely not going to experience any bugs at all.

riley turned invisible for me without me forcing anything. also, i couldn't pick up items from certain sides.

As for what you said about people who want to buy BDSP in the future, when the Switch servers don't work anymore, I think this won't be a problem because I think future BDSP cartridges will probably come pre-patched, which would fix the problem.

the cartridges themselves will likely have to be bought second hand at that point, which means that they could end up with this initial batch

 

[Boss1708]

riley turned invisible for me without me forcing anything. also, i couldn't pick up items from certain sides.

The Riley disappearing glitch sounds very weird indeed. The only glitch that I have experienced sofar, is not being able to pick up 1 item from certain sides, same as you. Also not being able to cut one tree from the side. Both of those happened in the area below Cycling Road. I am currently just after Veilstone City and I haven't experienced any other glitch sofar (except maybe no sound coming when receiving Stickers after winning a Super Contest Show).

the cartridges themselves will likely have to be bought second hand at that point, which means that they could end up with this initial batch

There is usually a serial code on each cartridge that tells you which batch it is. This way people can know if they're getting pre-patched or patched BDSP.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Just buy the game digital and all of your complaints are invalidated.

It still changes nothing. The company is still selling an incomplete game out of the box and it’s not wrong to call it “rushed” imo.

I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t get why people call a game they pay $60 + imports on from the highest grossing franchise from the planet and it lacks a complete title screen and complete music “rushed”.

The fact that the digital version is complete is nice! But that doesn’t really change that there was a conscious decision to ship an “incomplete” game and people might call it “rushed”. If I’m not wrong physical releases mark a larger percentage of sales.

I get that you like the games, and that’s perfectly fine. But a game can be good and rushed at the same time. BDSP could’ve released without causing so many inconveniences to the players if they took just some more time to polish the game. The rest of the game might be good, and the day 1 patch might make it stellar, but there are clear markings that this game was kind of rushed in the literal sense- they had to release the game by a specific date; and that led to key aspects of the game being relegated to a Day 1 patch.

This is probably the only Pokémon game I can say is “rushed” in a factual sense and not in a “Pokémon game bad so rushed” way. They were legitimately hit by logistical issues and shipped out an incomplete product in the initial cartridges. That’s just a fact.

On an unrelated note, if a $20 Indie game released without its soundtrack and other vital things, in a similar condition to BDSP, I think it would've been a PR disaster.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

A digital game can never "stop working".

Just a tongue in cheek comment- actually you have less ownership of a digital release than a physical game. With a digital game you only have access to a licence that can technically be revoked anytime Nintendo wants.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

Just a tongue in cheek comment- actually you have less ownership of a digital release than a physical game. With a digital game you only have access to a licence that can technically be revoked anytime Nintendo wants.

even if you get a physical cartridge, you still don't own the game. what you buy is the right to play it. the game still belongs wholly to nintendo/game freak/ilca/whatever

 

[KirbyBulba737]

They can't really stop you from playing physical though.

 

[Boss1708]

It still changes nothing. The company is still selling an incomplete game out of the box and it’s not wrong to call it “rushed” imo.

I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t get why people call a game they pay $60 + imports on from the highest grossing franchise from the planet and it lacks a complete title screen and complete music “rushed”.

The fact that the digital version is complete is nice! But that doesn’t really change that there was a conscious decision to ship an “incomplete” game and people might call it “rushed”. If I’m not wrong physical releases mark a larger percentage of sales.

I get that you like the games, and that’s perfectly fine. But a game can be good and rushed at the same time. BDSP could’ve released without causing so many inconveniences to the players if they took just some more time to polish the game. The rest of the game might be good, and the day 1 patch might make it stellar, but there are clear markings that this game was kind of rushed in the literal sense- they had to release the game by a specific date; and that led to key aspects of the game being relegated to a Day 1 patch.

This is probably the only Pokémon game I can say is “rushed” in a factual sense and not in a “Pokémon game bad so rushed” way. They were legitimately hit by logistical issues and shipped out an incomplete product in the initial cartridges. That’s just a fact.

On an unrelated note, if a $20 Indie game released without its soundtrack and other vital things, in a similar condition to BDSP, I think it would've been a PR disaster.

You don't need to tell me that it's fine if I like BDSP, I already know that lol . It's not like I'm in the minority or anything, BDSP is breaking sales records, surpassing ALL previous remakes, and even rivaling SwSh itself in terms of sales (for now). Those of you who dislike BDSP are the actual minority, it seems (nothing wrong with being the minority, don't get me wrong!).

At the same time, I understand why you think BDSP is "rushed" and "incomplete" but I still think that you're wrong about it. The game was factually incomplete in its cartridge form, true, but that doesn't make it "rushed" necessarily. Calling it "rushed" is basically just confirmation bias. It may have perfectly been shipped incomplete because of reasons different from "rushed/time constraints". Like because of the worldwide cartridge supply issue, for example.

So again, we don't have any evidence and therefore your statement isn't factual (neither is mine, obviously).

Just a tongue in cheek comment- actually you have less ownership of a digital release than a physical game. With a digital game you only have access to a licence that can technically be revoked anytime Nintendo wants.

Could you please explain this? I'm not sure what exactly you mean. Once I have paid for the digital game, how can Nintendo take it away from me? Are you sure?

They can't really stop you from playing physical though.

How can they stop me from playing the digital? I don't understand. Can they just delete my game whenever they want? Even (hypothetically) 20 years from now, when the Switch servers are gone?

I'm confused...

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Could you please explain this? I'm not sure what exactly you mean. Once I have paid for the digital game, how can Nintendo take it away from me? Are you sure?

With the physical release, you get (what I presume is, correct me if I’m wrong), the source code of the game directly. The cartridge stores all information about the game’s basic gameplay (I’m not sure about saves). No one can take it away from you. I’m pretty sure that’s how ROMs of the games are put up for piracy and related purposes as well.

For the digital games, again, as per my understanding, you don’t get a game. You get the licence to access the source code to run the game and not the actual code. If hypothetically Nintendo decided they wanted to erase [Random Game] from existence in all their digital stores, they can revoke your digital licence and you can no longer access the game. In the real world, there’s probably an extremely minuscule possiblity it happens, but technically you don’t own the game. In legal terms all you own is a licence for the source code that the publisher can revoke whenever they want. Meanwhile; the cartridge is more like a USB drive that contains the game’s information already and it cannot be removed unless someone tampers with the code stored.

In legal terms; on the physical cartridges you only own the licence as well, but in case Nintendo again, wants to remove this game from existence they have no way to remove it from your cartridge.

I’ll reiterate that my understanding on the topic is pretty loose and imprecise and I’d love for people to chime in with more precise information or correct me if I’m wrong! Most of my sources are reputable news websites that come up whenever you Google “Do you own digital games”.

 

[silurica]

I just want to be clear, I don't dislike BDSP per se. It's just... it's fine to like a thing while still being critical about it. It doesn't hurt to.

 

[Boss1708]

With the physical release, you get (what I presume is, correct me if I’m wrong), the source code of the game directly. The cartridge stores all information about the game’s basic gameplay (I’m not sure about saves). No one can take it away from you. I’m pretty sure that’s how ROMs of the games are put up for piracy and related purposes as well.

For the digital games, again, as per my understanding, you don’t get a game. You get the licence to access the source code to run the game and not the actual code. If hypothetically Nintendo decided they wanted to erase [Random Game] from existence in all their digital stores, they can revoke your digital licence and you can no longer access the game. In the real world, there’s probably an extremely minuscule possiblity it happens, but technically you don’t own the game. In legal terms all you own is a licence for the source code that the publisher can revoke whenever they want. Meanwhile; the cartridge is more like a USB drive that contains the game’s information already and it cannot be removed unless someone tampers with the code stored.

In legal terms; on the physical cartridges you only own the licence as well, but in case Nintendo again, wants to remove this game from existence they have no way to remove it from your cartridge.

I’ll reiterate that my understanding on the topic is pretty loose and imprecise and I’d love for people to chime in with more precise information or correct me if I’m wrong! Most of my sources are reputable news websites that come up whenever you Google “Do you own digital games”.

Thank you for elaborating!

You may be right (I really have no knowledge on this topic), but from what I understand I don't think Nintendo have any control over my Switch? What I mean is, once I have downloaded the game, and it is in my Switch, how can they delete my game, for example? Even if they decide to delete it from the E-Shop, wouldn't it still remain downloaded and fully functional in my Switch?

Also, if they DO have access to my game downloaded in my console, couldn't I cut their access to it by turning off the internet?

We've started a very interesting discussion here, and I hope someone with more knowledge on the topic than myself could enlighten me!

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Thank you for elaborating!

You may be right (I really have no knowledge on this topic), but from what I understand I don't think Nintendo have any control over my Switch? What I mean is, once I have downloaded the game, and it is in my Switch, how can they delete my game, for example? Even if they decide to delete it from the E-Shop, wouldn't it still remain downloaded and fully functional in my Switch?

Also, if they DO have access to my game downloaded in my console, couldn't I cut their access to it by turning off the internet?

We've started a very interesting discussion here, and I hope someone with more knowledge on the topic than myself could enlighten me!

These are questions that I was wondering about as well, since theoretically cutting off the internet should preserve the game. Then I’m guessing it falls into the same category as “technically illegal but Nintendo cannot do anything about it”, I guess. This is something worth reading up imo, most of my understanding so far was based on random Reddit comments plus some reading, which isn’t the most comprehensive of sources

This is an interesting topic imo… I do wish someone here had more information but I guess I know what to read up on in my spare time now.

 

[Pollmaster]

Thank you for elaborating!

You may be right (I really have no knowledge on this topic), but from what I understand I don't think Nintendo have any control over my Switch? What I mean is, once I have downloaded the game, and it is in my Switch, how can they delete my game, for example? Even if they decide to delete it from the E-Shop, wouldn't it still remain downloaded and fully functional in my Switch?

Also, if they DO have access to my game downloaded in my console, couldn't I cut their access to it by turning off the internet?

We've started a very interesting discussion here, and I hope someone with more knowledge on the topic than myself could enlighten me!

So this is mostly from my understanding of the EULA and not from any sort of legal perspective (Mostly because EULA's aren't inherently legal), but Nintendo has the right to update your console however they want even if it's not tied to the update with or without your notice. So while they don't have the ability to delete a game outright, they could revoke access to a game, and then introduce an update that makes that game unplayable.

Now this is only about what they could do according to the EULA and not according to the actual legality of that kind of action. There are a lot of EULA's that include things that aren't actually enforceable, and you've already pointed out how by turning off the internet they can't actually modify the files at all. It also doesn't account for the negative blowback of that kind of act, so there's no real risk of that kind of thing happening.

 

[Boss1708]

These are questions that I was wondering about as well, since theoretically cutting off the internet should preserve the game. Then I’m guessing it falls into the same category as “technically illegal but Nintendo cannot do anything about it”, I guess. This is something worth reading up imo, most of my understanding so far was based on random Reddit comments plus some reading, which isn’t the most comprehensive of sources

This is an interesting topic imo… I do wish someone here had more information but I guess I know what to read up on in my spare time now.

So this is mostly from my understanding of the EULA and not from any sort of legal perspective (Mostly because EULA's aren't inherently legal), but Nintendo has the right to update your console however they want even if it's not tied to the update with or without your notice. So while they don't have the ability to delete a game outright, they could revoke access to a game, and then introduce an update that makes that game unplayable.

Now this is only about what they could do according to the EULA and not according to the actual legality of that kind of action. There are a lot of EULA's that include things that aren't actually enforceable, and you've already pointed out how by turning off the internet they can't actually modify the files at all. It also doesn't account for the negative blowback of that kind of act, so there's no real risk of that kind of thing happening.

So, in short, I can just disable automatic updates on my Switch Lite, turn OFF the internet, maybe even turn ON Airplane Mode, and then there's NOTHING Nintendo can do to mess with my console and my downloaded games.

Thank you @PkmnTrainerV and @Pollmaster for your explanations!

 

[Nagisa]

Until you want to buy a game digitally again, since acess to the e-shop would likely require the latest version update.

Also, I don't think "it's fine because you can avoid downloading the patch by downloading the whole game instead" is a fair excuse for a game aimed at kids and released a month from holiday season, i.e. likely intended to be bought as a physical gift.

 

[Defiant]

Soooooo... if I'm not mistaken, Celebi seems like the only non-Sinnoh mythical unaccounted for? I'm guessing it'll be distributed like Mew and Jirachi once Legends comes out. Would make the most sense.

Kind of a shame they didn't try to release a Ranger game for Manaphy instead of just making it an early purchase bonus. That would've been neat.

Aren't Celebi and Deoxys covered by Virtual Crystal and ORAS? Know they not Gen 8, but they are still permanently available.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

i approve of mythicals becoming available through regular gameplay as there's too many of them, but i kinda feel like they gave mew and jirachi away too easily. at least Deoxys and Keldeo were at the end of big questlines, and celebi had you perform a small quest too before you got it. mew and jirachi are just given to you by random NPCs like they're nothing.