BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[NealIRC]

Gen 8's experience all works the same way as Gen 6's!

Nope, Gen 8 included for pokemon that did not partake in the battle, (but not 100% of the experience).

The only difference is that you can't turn it off!

Right, in the sense that there was no item.

As you said yourself, Gen 1 Pokemon's types were already designed long before.

This is why Gen 8 had to all be single-elemented to make it simpler.

The fact that Pikachu and Eevee were chosen as the partner Pokemon for LGPE isn't because they're single-types, it's because of their popularity.

I'm sure it can be both. It would be wrong to assume it can only be 1 reason.

 

[Esserise]

The very first SwSh trailer also showed the Wild Area.

Not the *very* first one:

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Nope, Gen 8 included for pokemon that did not partake in the battle, (but not 100% of the experience).

I don't know how many more ways I can explain this to you.

Gen 6's Exp Share gives exp to all Pokemon in your party, even if they weren't in the battle.

This is why Gen 8 had to all be single-elemented to make it simpler.

So Game Freak decided "Oh no, two types for a Pokemon is really hard to handle, so we'll just make the starters single-type", but then they also made Orbeetle, Corviknight, Drednaw, Coalossal, Centiscorch, Toxitricity, Grimmsnarl, Frosmoth, the fossils....

And for what is now the fifth time, Go still has plenty of dual-types, including two starter options. If it wasn't too hard for Go, why would it be too hard for a mainline game?

 

[NealIRC]

View attachment 140364
I don't know how many more ways I can explain this to you.

Gen 6's Exp Share gives exp to all Pokemon in your party, even if they weren't in the battle.

Yes, but that doesn't contradict what I said.

So Game Freak decided "Oh no, two types for a Pokemon is really hard to handle, so we'll just make the starters single-type", but then they also made Orbeetle, Corviknight, Drednaw, Coalossal, Centiscorch, Toxitricity, Grimmsnarl, Frosmoth, the fossils....

Yes, but that doesn't mean they have to make the whole Gen 8 pokemon single-elemented.

And for what is now the fifth time, Go still has plenty of dual-types, including two starter options. If it wasn't too hard for Go, why would it be too hard for a mainline game?

Same reason for making the E4 level-scaling, allowing any uber pokemon in Battle Tower, etc. The point is, Pokemon Go fans are playing this game as their 2nd, or 1st game.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Yes, but that doesn't contradict what I said.

You have said, three times, that it wasn't until Gen 8 that the Experience Share gave experience to all Pokemon in your party. Yes, this fucking contradicts that.

Yes, but that doesn't mean they have to make the whole Gen 8 pokemon single-elemented.

So it was enough of a concern that they thought "Oh, fans couldn't handle dual-type Pokemon, it'd be too hard to remember all their weaknesses!", but then they just threw that idea out the window the rest of the time?

Same reason for making the E4 level-scaling, allowing any uber pokemon in Battle Tower, etc.

I know that you think these were all done to make mainline games easier, but that doesn't answer why dual-types would be acceptable in Go but not in the mainline games when they use the same type chart.

 

[NealIRC]

You have said, three times, that it wasn't until Gen 8 that the Experience Share gave experience to all Pokemon in your party. Yes, this fucking contradicts that.

I don't believe I ever said that. I don't believe I ever said there was a Experience Share item in Gen 8.

So it was enough of a concern that they thought "Oh, fans couldn't handle dual-type Pokemon, it'd be too hard to remember all their weaknesses!", but then they just threw that idea out the window the rest of the time?

Depends on what you mean by "the rest of the time."

I know that you think these were all done to make mainline games easier, but that doesn't answer why dual-types would be acceptable in Go but not in the mainline games when they use the same type chart.

For starter pokemon evo's yes. But I wasn't comparing with Pokemon Go. I was comparing with Gen 7 and 6.

 

[Phosphene]

I have little interest engaging in pigeon chess, especially when it appears the discussion is not in good faith, but...

Same reason for making the E4 level-scaling, allowing any uber pokemon in Battle Tower, etc. The point is, Pokemon Go fans are playing this game as their 2nd, or 1st game.

While there has been a trend to make the games easier, laying the blame squarely at the feet of GO players is silly and irrational, especially since such a trend not only pre-dates GO but was arguably worst in some cases in previous games. Both Leon and Ultra Necrozema appear to scale to the Exp Share and are memes within the fandom due to their sudden difficulty. I've played Sword twice and grinded a lot due to enjoying it, and my team's levels and Leon's levels were neck and neck, and the fight posed some difficulty. Dianthia, on the other hand, was a pushover even without the Exp. Share. I have some... choice opinions about GO, its effects on the franchise, and GO players in general, but you're doing them a disservice by assuming that they're all complete and utter idiots who cannot even understand something as simple as dual typings despite having experience with it, for example.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

I don't believe I ever said that. I don't believe I ever said there was a Experience Share item in Gen 8.

You're clearly splitting hairs if you're going to say that "Well, technically, I was talking about this mechanic that does the exact same thing as the Exp Share, not the item itself".

Three times, you said that giving experience to all Pokemon in your party wasn't a thing until Gen 8:

The experience for all was only for the pokemon that partaked in the battle. That didn't start till Gen 8.

Gen 6 just changed the way it was divided. If 3 pokemon partaked in the same battle, rather than getting 1/3rd each, they all got 100% each. But the other pokemon on the team that didn't battle didn't get any. That changed in Sword/Shield.

Nope, Gen 8 included for pokemon that did not partake in the battle, (but not 100% of the experience).

This is not true.

Depends on what you mean by "the rest of the time."

The rest of the time they were developing the game?

For starter pokemon evo's yes. But I wasn't comparing with Pokemon Go. I was comparing with Gen 7 and 6.

Why wouldn't you compare them with Go? Your whole argument is that they're making things easier for Go players. It'd be ridiculous not to compare the difficulty and features of Go to mainline games in that argument.

 

[wanderist]

wtf is this conversation lol

Nope, Gen 8 included for pokemon that did not partake in the battle, (but not 100% of the experience).


Right, in the sense that there was no item.


This is why Gen 8 had to all be single-elemented to make it simpler.


I'm sure it can be both. It would be wrong to assume it can only be 1 reason.

You have no actual evidence that any of this has anything to do with Go. GameFreak has never said or implied anything like that. You're just making assumptions by yourself. And anyone who has played Go or LGPE already knew how dual-typings worked. The only people who wouldn't are people who started their entire Pokemon journey in SWSH, which could happen in any game. There are multiple other reasons that GF may have chosen not to make dual-typed starters this time, may even be because everyone thought they would be dual-typed so they wanted to catch people off guard. It's also not the first time they did make single-type starters. You are making something out of literally nothing.

As for the exp thing, I'm assuming you're actually referring to the fact that you could turn the exp share off before LGPE. This...really didn't affect difficulty as much as you seem to think it did. Still pretty sure XY was the easiest mainline game besides maybe LGPE, which was made for a younger audience.

Going back to actually discussing Sinnoh remakes though

Not the *very* first one:

That is true. I think it was already stated that the game would return to random encounters, but maybe there is some hope. Honestly really hope so because I think that's one of my biggest disappointments right now.

 

[NealIRC]

While there has been a trend to make the games easier, laying the blame squarely at the feet of GO players is silly and irrational,

But if all you have is Pokemon fans, and Pokemon Go fans, can you think of a 3rd?

especially since such a trend not only pre-dates GO but was arguably worst in some cases in previous games.

Reading your below post, you posted examples where Gen 7 were harder? I found that too. I found Siebold in X/Y hard, as well as Ultra Necrozma and also Giovanni in post-game S/M hard.

I didn't find anybody challenging in Sword/Shield.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

These look so bad I just can't fathom what Nintendo was thinking when they greenlit the first trailer. Like really the chibi style character models look so freaking mediocre almost as if gravity is pushing the characters down. The buildings don't look as bad but they're still so unimpressive like I would expect the regular DS to be able to handle that kind of overworld map.

What bugs me even more is that Lucas and Dawn look exactly the same. They didn't even try to give them new outfits outside of the Arceus spin-off game which looks 10 times more impressive than these remakes.

 

[NealIRC]

You're clearly splitting hairs if you're going to say that "Well, technically, I was talking about this mechanic that does the exact same thing as the Exp Share, not the item itself".

Three times, you said that giving experience to all Pokemon in your party wasn't a thing until Gen 8:



This is not true.

Of course it is. The only way to "turn it off" is to put the pokemon in the PC. You didn't have that problem in previous gens.

The rest of the time they were developing the game?

Okay, than the part that involved starter pokemons.

Why wouldn't you compare them with Go? Your whole argument is that they're making things easier for Go players. It'd be ridiculous not to compare the difficulty and features of Go to mainline games in that argument.

Because Go players are playing the core series, for the 2nd or 1st time. Assuming LG/PE was their 1st game.

 

[NealIRC]

You have no actual evidence that any of this has anything to do with Go.

But I never said that either.

As for the exp thing, I'm assuming you're actually referring to the fact that you could turn the exp share off before LGPE. This...really didn't affect difficulty as much as you seem to think it did.

Okay.

Still pretty sure XY was the easiest mainline game besides maybe LGPE, which was made for a younger audience.

See I always pick a team of 6, I never care to try to catch them all. So I try to be a reference point to level scaling. Good to know you found X/Y to be easier than Sword/Shield.

 

[Daenerys]

The one trailer argument is for the content, not for the graphics, those can't really be saved.

And in my case let me clarify by saying that I care more about the graphics than about any extra new content that we'll possibly get. Because to be completely honest after seeing how awful the graphics look I'm getting the feeling that these games were made in a rush to make a quick buck, so I have this nagging feeling that new features will be limited and not really that special either.

I mean, the game designers would have to add something really magnificent and amazing to make up for the crappy graphics in my opinion. And I don't trust them at all to deliver.

 

[Phosphene]

But if all you have is Pokemon fans, and Pokemon Go fans, can you think of a 3rd?

Pokémon fans and Pokémon GO fans are not some sort of binary where the former completely understands everything about the games and the latter have been lobotomized to the point where they cannot even remember dual-matchups from their time playing GO. I'd argue that the simplifications in these games were most likely made to appeal to the target audience of 10 year olds, a broad category that can encompass people who've never played Pokémon to VGC champions. Also, why wouldn't GO fans be counted as Pokémon fans? They like a Pokémon product, hence they are Pokémon fans.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Of course it is. The only way to "turn it off" is to put the pokemon in the PC. You didn't have that problem in previous gens.

You never said anything about turning it off. You said, over and over, that Gen 8 was the first games where experience was given to all members of the party, because they wanted to make it easier to level up Pokemon.

If the goal was really to make the games easier for Go players, removing the option to turn off experience sharing has nothing to do with that. Your game doesn't automatically become harder just because you could turn something off.

Because Go players are playing the core series, for the 2nd or 1st time. Assuming LG/PE was their 1st game.

I've said, no less than six times, that there's no reason why the same type chart should be harder in the core series than on Go.

Why would single-type starters appeal to Go fans? Go has plenty of dual-types, including Charizard and Venusaur, starters in the game. Why would dual-types be something they wanted to avoid?

And, for what must be the third time, if Go fans are used to playing with dual-types in Go, why would dual-types starters suddenly be such an issue for them in mainline games?

For the fourth time, now- Go players still have to calculate these weaknesses on their teams in Go. Why is it different when they're playing a mainline game?

Yes, and that is how types work in Go, too. And again, Go has dual-type starters- Charizard is Fire/Flying, so it's weak to Electric, too. Venusaur is Grass/Poison, so it's weak to Psychic, too. You're not making a new case here, you're just repeating that dual-types have more weaknesses, and my response is the same- those same weaknesses exist in Go, too.

And for what is now the fifth time, Go still has plenty of dual-types, including two starter options. If it wasn't too hard for Go, why would it be too hard for a mainline game?

that doesn't answer why dual-types would be acceptable in Go but not in the mainline games when they use the same type chart.

Clearly you don't care about actually engaging with this, you just want to blame Go players for everything, so fine, whatever. I really should have known to ignore this by the third repeat.



More on-topic- I don't expect new forms for Dialga and Palkia, but if we did get them, I'd imagine them to go through a change like Giratina and lose some limbs in favor of a floating, ethereal kind of form. Which would be really sick, actually, makes me a little disappointed that it doesn't seem likely.

 

[venusboi79]

The attitude that Go players (or mobile game players in general) are just a group of easily distracted casuals who need to constantly be monitored lest they accidentally swallow a toy truck is pretty silly. Especially in a franchise like Pokémon (which has always had a certain stigma of being a cutesy game for kids).

I don’t especially like how Go has affected certain aspects of the franchise, but it can’t be blamed for every (presumed) misstep in the main series games. And plenty of people play it (including competitive players of the main games).

Anyway, to swerve back on-topic; my initial reaction to the trailer for BDSP was to recoil at the graphics. I had been picturing SWSH-style, not the weird LGPE/old-school sprite mash-up. But after watching it again, I sort of like it. At least the sprite aspect. I’m still not sold on the LGPE-style battle screens, but I think I can get over it.

I’m curious to see how much they stick to the originals, as far as story and playthrough. Hopefully it stays faithful to the overall game, while introducing some fun new elements and quests.

 

[NealIRC]

Pokémon fans and Pokémon GO fans are not some sort of binary where the former completely understands everything about the games and the latter have been lobotomized to the point where they cannot even remember dual-matchups from their time playing GO. I'd argue that the simplifications in these games were most likely made to appeal to the target audience of 10 year olds, a broad category that can encompass people who've never played Pokémon to VGC champions.

10 year-olds? Okay. So what about 10 year-olds back in Gen 7, Gen 6, Gen 5, etc. Every generation has 10 year olds.

But not every generation had Pokemon Go fans.

Also, why wouldn't GO fans be counted as Pokémon fans? They like a Pokémon product, hence they are Pokémon fans.

To distinguish.

 

[NealIRC]

You never said anything about turning it off. You said, over and over, that Gen 8 was the first games where experience was given to all members of the party, because they wanted to make it easier to level up Pokemon.

If the goal was really to make the games easier for Go players, removing the option to turn off experience sharing has nothing to do with that. Your game doesn't automatically become harder just because you could turn something off.

It makes it easier in the sense that you don't have to switch pokemon in. So pokemon level-up faster.

I've said, no less than six times, that there's no reason why the same type chart should be harder in the core series than on Go.

I never said that either.

Clearly you don't care about actually engaging with this, you just want to blame Go players for everything, so fine, whatever. I really should have known to ignore this by the third repeat.

Basically, the large variable that caused in increase in Sword/Shield sales. That made it surpass S/M, US/UM, X/Y/, OR/AS, etc.

 

[sc190191]

Wow this is really disappointing. DPPT are still very playable on DS or 3DS, why make the exact same game. If anything it looks less pleasing than the originals. Virtual console would have been better than this. What a disappointment for the one remake Sinnoh games will get, all other remakes got additional content, extremely updated graphics, and were to the quality of the games of that generation. It has been a really long time since a Pokemon game looked this poor visually. And then they follow it up with an amazing looking game, although I'm not so sure I'm as excited about the content it appears to be a much better announcement. Why could they not just make the Sinnoh remakes in those graphics. No one wanted a faithful one-to-one game, we can still play the originals!