BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[Norzan]

The same is true of all remakes when it comes to why should you buy them over the originals.

This only applies to ORAS because it's not really an improvement over Emerald, and it's literally the argument i'm making about this remake. There are actual reasons to get HGSS and FRLG since they improve the originals in several ways.

Also in what ways does it look cheap? Just because its chibi? The chibi models heads do look a bit big for their bodies and they should use outlines in my opinion that much I can agree on, but nothing looks cheap here, just stylized to fit the aesthetic they're going for.

It look extremely cheap to me, and it's not because it's chibi. There are free to play mobile games that look better than this. Again, just because you are trying to fit it into an aethestic doesn't allow you to look this cheap. The lighting in particular makes the whole thing look even cheaper.

Edit: and once again gameplay is whats important and if it plays like the original we should have no worries

Graphics matter no matter how much people like to say gameplay is what's important (it is but not the only thing that matters). Video games are a visual medium and the first thing you see from a game is its graphics. No, ultra realistic graphics aren't the best, but a good aethestic matters.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

This only applies to ORAS because it's not really an improvement over Emerald, and it's literally the argument i'm making about this remake. There are actual reasons to get HGSS and FRLG since they improve the originals in several ways.


It look extremely cheap to me, and it's not because it's chibi. There are free to play mobile games that look better than this. Again, just because you are trying to fit it into an aethestic doesn't allow you to look this cheap. The lighting in particular makes the whole thing look even cheaper.

You keep saying cheap I'll need you to be more specific. We don't know how much time and effort went into the graphics, and I'm sure the game designers put alot of work into it coding is really hard and I say that having only ever taken 1 class in it. Just because it looks like it could work as a smart phone game doesn't mean it took as much effort as one. And you keep dodging what I'm saying about game play, the gameplay is what matters, diamond and pearl had a great main game and good lore, and we don't have to worry about dynamax coming back, should we not judge the games on how it plays vs how it looks.

 

[Poke Dragon]

I have seen the recent Pokeshopper news but I have to disagree with the idea that Mega Evolution is 100% confirmed for these remakes. At least wait for trailers, as for Dynamax, I don't see it being in the remakes unless the backgrounds are more opened up.

Much like what @Fairy Type Arceus said, wait until more information about the games is revealed before making any concrete conclusions.

 

[R1ke]

Remakes in general after ORAS weren’t something I was keen on honestly. I’d rather that TPC would focus on new ideas rather than keep retelling older ones. I get why they are still being remade and don’t mind them, but I wasn’t exactly boarding the hype train for these during all the buildup. I do feel bad for people who were genuinely attached to DP and were looking forward to seeing how these turned out, only to be disappointed here.

Looking at the games themselves, I can’t say I’m that interested anyways. Regardless of the art style and stuff, just playing through a game I’ve played through before (not sure how faithful these will be tho) isn’t all that interesting to me. I know this sounds bad, but I prefer that remakes are treated more of a side project if it means that Game Freak gets to work on new, more creative games like Legends. I honestly don’t want to see remakes anymore after these (especially because I don’t see gen 5 being improved much next). I’d rather that if instead of re-creating the games 1:1, they go a route similar to legends where they change something drastically about it so they can tell an alternate version of the story (like different time periods or something) whilst still retaining the general idea. Like twist it in a way that feels fresh whilst still paying homage to the original.

 

[GrookeyFan77]

Idk if I should buy them. Should I?

 

[Louise]

Idk if I should buy them. Should I?

it's up to you, we may get more news about the games

 

[KrisiChiki]

Also shouldn't we be judging the game on gameplay and not so much on visuals?

This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'll use your comment if that's okay.

The visual direction (not graphical quality) of a game not being to one's liking is a very valid reason for someone to not like a game. Different people enjoy games in different ways and for some the style, the designs and the art direction in general can be a deal breaker. Could they be missing out on a fun game? Certainly, but some people value visuals a lot so they wouldn't be able to enjoy a game properly if they don't like how it looks. Let's respect everyone's preferences and reasons for liking or disliking a game.

I understand that those who like these games and are excited to play them might be irritated by those who are being negative. Who wouldn't be? It's something you like and you see others being harsh or negative about them. It's natural to feel annoyed and I don't blame anyone for it. In the grand scheme of things, this is just a game about pixel creatures that don't exist, but people's feelings are real and genuine. I believe most people just want to express their disappointment, share their thoughts and eventually move on. They don't do it out of malice. They are upset and want to be heard, that's all. Dismissing people's opinions, disappointment or genuine criticism is not cool and it's not going to help anyone with anything. It will only lead to further hostility and divide among the fans. Both sides have their bad apples, people that are unreasonable or people that refuse to move on, but we shouldn't let that affect how we treat each other here.

 

[Phosphene]

One YouTuber complained that being a 1 for 1 faithful remake would mean all the glitches from the original Diamond and Pearl would be present in the remakes. But I don't see that likely because it's a different engine with 3D battles and a few minor changes.

I think they were joking.

 

[Circus]

Can we not conflate "art style I don't like" with "cheap"?

Because I can tell you right now only looking at the trailers that BDSP were not cheap to make. 3D modeling and 3D rendering in general is a time-consuming process and testing that everything works the way it should work in a game is far from trivial.

And even if it were cheap (which I really doubt is the case), a cheap game isn't necessarily bad. Stardew Valley, Undertale, Spacechem and Baba is You, to name a few, were almost certainly cheaper to produce than BDSP will be and are critically acclaimed and the favorites of a lot of people.

 

[NealIRC]

Idk if I should buy them. Should I?

Too early to decide...

I mostly decide the week it came out to see all the details.

 

[Cute Charm]

Can we not conflate "art style I don't like" with "cheap"?

Because I can tell you right now only looking at the trailers that BDSP were not cheap to make. 3D modeling and 3D rendering in general is a time-consuming process and testing that everything works the way it should work in a game is far from trivial.

And even if it were cheap (which I really doubt is the case), a cheap game isn't necessarily bad. Stardew Valley, Undertale, Spacechem and Baba is You, to name a few, were almost certainly cheaper to produce than BDSP will be and are critically acclaimed and the favorites of a lot of people.

Also, retro games are in right now, hence the games you mentioned being sprite/pixel based. Why not have a nostalgic return to the old style of Pokemon?

At this point if Nintendo comes out and says they made a Mother 4 for the Switch but the graphics still look like 3D sprites, people would still eat it up. The only reason people don't like this is because it's Pokemon.

 

[Blast]

Can we not conflate "art style I don't like" with "cheap"?

Because I can tell you right now only looking at the trailers that BDSP were not cheap to make. 3D modeling and 3D rendering in general is a time-consuming process and testing that everything works the way it should work in a game is far from trivial.

And even if it were cheap (which I really doubt is the case), a cheap game isn't necessarily bad. Stardew Valley, Undertale, Spacechem and Baba is You, to name a few, were almost certainly cheaper to produce than BDSP will be and are critically acclaimed and the favorites of a lot of people.

The fact that some FTP mobile games look better and more polished than this doesn't fare well. You can get more appealing visuals for no money at all, let alone 60 bucks. I think that's why a lot people are upset. You are asked to pay a premium price for something that doesn't look the part. Cheap games can be good, but BDSP won't be cheap and that dissonance is why many people like myself are frustrated.

While you can argue about the artstyle there's no denying what we've seen so far graphically is far behind the industry standard for the price. Hell, I could buy all of Uncharted 4, MGS5 and Nioh or both Persona 5 and Dragon Quest on PS4 for the price of this game. BDSP looks "cheap" because the price and prestige of Sinnoh remakes doesn't match the graphical quality. If this was a 10 (or even 20) euro eShop remaster title and you could switch between the old and new style, no one would bat an eye.

 

[BackSet]

people would still eat it up.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure people would be mad because Mother 3 still hasn't released outside Japan.

 

[Circus]

The fact that some FTP mobile games look better and more polished than this doesn't fare well. You can get more appealing visuals for no money at all, let alone 60 bucks. I think that's why a lot people are upset. You are asked to pay a premium price for something that doesn't look the part. Cheap games can be good, but BDSP won't be cheap and that dissonance is why many people like myself are frustrated.

First thing is that you dropped a "for me". The FTP mobile games look better for you, are more polished for you, are more appealing for you.

Second thing, you're assuming the price. While I do agree that it'll likely be in the 60 USD range because that's the price a lot of Switch games are, it's still an assumption. And a game being "free to play" only means that it has a different way to get money, not that it has a smaller budget.

Third thing is that it's fine to feel frustrated about that. But the problem isn't "it's cheap" or "it's cheap looking", it's "I think they could have done better with the same amount of money or less" (which I'd say it's a bit debatable myself, but sure). They're most definitely not the same thing.

While you can argue about the artstyle there's no denying what we've seen so far graphically is far behind the industry standard for the price. Hell, I could buy all of Uncharted 4, MGS5 and Nioh or both Persona 5 and Dragon Quest on PS4 for the price of this game. BDSP looks "cheap" because the price and prestige of Sinnoh remakes doesn't match the graphical quality. If this was a 10 (or even 20) euro eShop remaster title and you could switch between the old and new style, no one would bat an eye.

That's another problem that isn't "it's cheap(looking)", the problem here is "it'll likely be overpriced". Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't or can't be mad about the game. I'm saying that you can and should articulate better why you're frustrated with the game.

"It's overpriced", "It's overly stylized", "It's behind industry standards" are all fine reasons to be frustrated and convey a lot more information besides saying "it's cheap".

 

[Cute Charm]

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure people would be mad because Mother 3 still hasn't released outside Japan.

True. Let's say if they remade Mother 3 for the Switch then and released it wordwide, but kept the style but made it 3D.

People would still probably praise it's originality, style, and closeness to the GBA version.

 

[Blast]

First thing is that you dropped a "for me". The FTP mobile games look better for you, are more polished for you, are more appealing for you.

Second thing, you're assuming the price. While I do agree that it'll likely be in the 60 USD range because that's the price a lot of Switch games are, it's still an assumption. And a game being "free to play" only means that it has a different way to get money, not that it has a smaller budget.

Third thing is that it's fine to feel frustrated about that. But the problem isn't "it's cheap" or "it's cheap looking", it's "I think they could have done better with the same amount of money or less" (which I'd say it's a bit debatable myself, but sure). They're most definitely not the same thing.



That's another problem that isn't "it's cheap(looking)", the problem here is "it'll likely be overpriced". Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't or can't be mad about the game. I'm saying that you can and should articulate better why you're frustrated with the game.

"It's overpriced", "It's overly stylized", "It's behind industry standards" are all fine reasons to be frustrated and convey a lot more information besides saying "it's cheap".

I don't need to be told what words I should or shouldn't use to express myself about a Pokémon game. But thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Norzan]

Because it's cheap looking to me, and not because it's chibi style (i have seen games doing this style far better than what was shown here). If people have a problem with me saying it's cheap, that's your problem, not mine. I'm still gonna call it like i feel.

 

[Circus]

Because it's cheap looking to me, and not because it's chibi style (i have seen games doing this style far better than what was shown here). If people have a problem with me saying it's cheap, that's your problem, not mine. I'm still gonna call it like i feel.

Feel free to call it however you like, but at the same time if you can't articulate why it's "cheap" beyond the rather nebulous "it looks cheap to me" then people are also free to disagree with and criticize your choice of words.

 

[ShieldFan]

We went from this

to this

Is it an improvement over the last games? I don't think so. Sword and Shield look light years ahead of Gen4 remakes graphics wise. I'd love to hear what Masuda and this ILCA studio think about this. How would you treat a mainline pokemon game? Like I said, I don't think these remakes are their biggest priority.

Sources:

'Pokémon Brilliant Diamond' and 'Shining Pearl' Remakes Are Coming to Nintendo Switch in 2021

When is the release date for 'Pokémon Brilliant Diamond' and 'Shining Pearl'? Remakes of the 2006 games are coming to Nintendo Switch in 2021.

www.distractify.com

Pokémon Sword & Shield Devs On Updated Graphics And Spending Time Perfecting The ‘Tall Grass’

www.siliconera.com

 

[Circus]

You can, and i still don't care. Moving on.

Then please actually move the conversation along.

For instance, I'm genuinely curious on why you think the game looks cheap.

Like I've said multiple times, I agree that it's far from the best graphically, that the chibi style as done in the trailer isn't very good, and that it does seem like a step back compared to Legends or even Sword and Shield, but what are the actual complaints you have?

Is it a lighting problem or do you think it's a more fundamental issue? Do you think the cell-shading that some people mentioned here could be an improvement to the way the graphics currently are?

What are some of the chibi style games you've mentioned before that you feel are done in a better style?

I think you mentioned free to play games before which you feel are better looking, which game is it? Because some free to play games like say, Genshin Impact or Fortnite are actually rather expensive to make and they can only afford to be free to play due to market expectations and a radically different monetization scheme (although I'll happily admit that a lot of the budget for those game is probably server / back-end related and not necessarily in the front-end).