BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[BackSet]

Can we stop beating the “it’ll have no new content” horse (also stop beating horses in general you monsters) until we actually know it’ll have no new content.

 

[Johtoo]

Right because this:

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Is normal human anatomy which the models are based upon.

Did you read my post. I said chibi recreation; i.e., using a chibi model to replace the existing sprite. Oras completely changes the world while using better chibi models while dp remakes keeps the same world, replacing the sprite with an even worse chibi model. They're not even remotely the same, so I have no idea why you're even trying with this.

 

[Esserise]

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I think the point here is that compare the two games. Even compare it with Sword and Shield. One of these games should not cost $60.

I’ll say again that Viridian Forest looks uniquely good among all LGPE locations because it has extra work put into the lighting - but it sacrifices performance to do so. You get massive framerate drops in there.

(I’m also pretty sure that the camera never actually rotates to give that view of the forest, either. It’s always top-down. So that particular image is a promotional showcase shot, lab-engineered to make the game look as good as possible at a glance - it’s not even representative of the actual gameplay. Matter of fact, I’m curious as to where you got that image? I can’t seem to find it, myself.)

Edit: oh wait here it is, it’s from the beta, lol. That’s really misrepresenting - the shot is only possible in a beta build where camera control is enabled during co-op play which, as the thread mentions, is likely for debugging purposes...

So let’s post a proper screen from the finalized game:

Spoiler

Looks good enough, but this is the only angle you’ll ever see it from, and is arguably the best-looking area at the game but it tanks your frames and causes the Switch to start sweating bullets after walking around for just a bit.

 

[venusboi79]

I’ll say again that Viridian Forest looks uniquely good among all LGPE locations because it has extra work put into the lighting - but it sacrifices performance to do so. You get massive framerate drops in there.

Which is most likely why that screenshot gets tossed up so frequently; much like the screenshot of that poor, maligned tree in SWSH. With little to no context in actual gameplay, it reinforces the poster’s vendetta against lazy, greedy GF who are just capitalizing off of stupid sheeple who will throw money at them because they’re Masuda stans or something.


I completely get why some people are unhappy with what we’ve seen so far of BDSP; I’m still not 100% sold on some of the choices myself yet. But I am getting a little tired hearing that what I enjoy is just due to my stupidity, while in the same breath being told to respect other people’s opinions of why they don’t like a game.

Especially when pretty much anyone commenting knows about the game comes from the same two minute blurb in a twenty minute video that mostly focuses on the history of the franchise.

 

[Esserise]

btw, the protagonists are wearing Pokétches in their official art, so... guess they’re gonna’ adapt it somehow, despite the lack of dual-screens.

I assume Poké Ball Seals will come back too

 

[Cute Charm]

The Poketech will more than likely be the Y menu, replacing the Y-Comm.

Hopefully they keep the touch screen in handheld.

 

[Phosphene]

I think I would be much more receptive to the graphics if they gave the overworld chibi models black button eyes a la the Link’s Awakening remaster because right now chibi Dawn’s empty eyes combined with her permanent smile makes it look like she’s got thirteen bodies buried in her backyard.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

As I look at the graphics style... How can I put it - It's trying to be multiple entirely opposite stylizations at once, and it feels too inconsistent and offputing as a result.

It wants to be modern-anime in terms of the battles, yet also wants to be incredibly retro-nostalgic with the overworld proportions. They want to use the 2 forms together as a way to make it look like an older game in 3D HD graphics. But even more, they want to unify the entire artstyle between the contrasting proportions with the same shading and HD polycount across battles and the overworld.

The issue is that early 2D graphics games did the chibi overworld for gameplay due to practical graphics limitations, and to scale everything down to fit on tinier screens. They never meant to look heavily detailed and high poly - They were supposed have just the right amount of detail to represent each character and asset, until we get to zoom in to the more detailed representations of them and their actions.

Now, one might think "HEY! Link's Awakenings remake was chibi, and it worked great! No double standards!" However, that game didn't scale up Cute Link's proportions in the gameplay - The whole game had the models with fixed scaling. That added unity and consistency in the artstyle, as you were always playing as an adorable chibi throughout the lifetime of the game.

The BDSP scaling feels offputting because the supposedly "necessary" scaling between the overworld and battle scene of the days of olde no longer is in a fullfledged, large screen HD era of today. And it makes us look at the overforms not as the 'just enough detail representation' sprites - but as weird forms you must become until a pokemon appears, and you finally get to grow up into your "True" form of realistic proportions!

I mean, that did happen in Gen 6 - your overworld sprite was in smaller proportions than in trainer ID, cutscenes, etc. However, the contrast in proportions wasn't that severe. You were scaled, but not in a weird, overboard manner - and it was also due to various graphics issues that game freak had to figure out when they decided to go full overworld scaling in Gen 7. Thus, I can somewhat forgive the 3D chibi's used that way.

I.e.: Trying to have your cake and eat it too with scaling doesn't work well with these remake graphics.

Thank you for being specific with real arguments and analysis of why you don't like the graphics it makes for a much more meaningful discussion than hearing "cheap looking mobile game" a hundred times. I can agree the art style can be very inconsistent with the battles, maybe it would have been cool if the battles also had somehow resembled the originals by bringing sprite art work back for the battles.

One thing I want to bring up is maybe they didn't want to drastically redesign some areas with 3d in mind. Dppt had very layered areas that would be hard to bring to life faithfully in 3d, such as mt. Coronet and stark mountain, this art style at least implies their designs will remain as we remembered them if nothing else right? I'd imagine these areas would need to be really different if made in swsh like graphics.

 

[Almonds]

I assume Poké Ball Seals will come back too

I forgot Seals were a thing. I hope they added more stickers.

 

[swiftgallade46]

The graphics and art style of this game looks horrible. Even LGPE looks better than this shit. Plus it seems to be AN EXACT ONE-TO-ONE of the DP Games without that much elements from Platinum. Don't give them your money for this.

I think you’re being a bit dramatic, but you’re entitled to your opinion, I guess.

We really don’t know what elements it will and won’t have from Platinum and what new features will be introduced or updated from the originals, so maybe reserve your all-caps judgements on that until we actually know something.

 

[Rocket Messiah]

I like the chibi artstyle, also I don't play Pokemon for the graphics so I don't care that much to be fair as long as I enjoy it as I still do with Platinum.

Also the chibi forms will look really cute with the contest outfit.

 

[bulbasaur99]

I prepared some collages to explain my general problems with the visuals. ( All XY screenshots look a little blurry)

Spoiler

First I want to look at buildings. In Twinleaf Town, Barry's home looks incoherent. The wooden parts, windows, roof, chimney, all these seem like have a different texture and look mashed together and plastic. In Links Awakening, houses, garden wall, fences look like part of the world. And for the other games Lets Go Eevee and XY, buildings look real and harmonious. In BDSP, generally ( In Florama too ) houses look like they don't belong to their envoirmnet.

Spoiler

Secondly, I want to look at the grass. In BDSP grass patches look somehow odd. In XY they look a little unnatural too. In Let's Go and Links Awakening they look natural, coherent. Lightning is soo good in those games. I specifically add Viridian Forest because in older posts there was an argument about a promotional photo being used in the comparison. And also I think in BDSP trees' texture and lightning is really different from everything else like buildings, trainers and grass patches. And also I want to point out that in Links Awakening rabbits, characters and everything look like they belong there but for our game trainer chibis looks like they photoshopped.

Spoiler

Maybe I am most disappointed with character designs. Not because I think the original designs look bad or anything but seeing old characters with new outfits and slightly updated styles makes me always happy. Flannery, Brawly, Wallace in ORAS was 10/10. But for these games, even the models look less impressive and less good. A mobile game Pokemon Masters has better shading and scaling for Barry and Dawn and even a new outfit for Dawn which we won't get in this game for sure. Not because these games are "faithful to the original" but because I am 100% sure overworld chibi models won't get any customization options by the look of it. I could find much better looking 3D trainers in Battle Revolution or a fan custom for SwSh but I don't think they are necessary for the obvious lack of quality.

Spoiler

Now its time for the towns and cities. I don't know if Links Awakening has towns or anything but it has buildings and structures so they count. In Let's Go and XY, character models look like they are really there, present. Lighting, shading, textures look coherent. I feel like I am saying the same things again and again but sorry, this is the reality. In BDSP all character models look like plastic toys or balloon figures and they seem photoshopped there. In Snowpoint City snowy ground almost doesn't exist and in Florama Town flowers and buildings look from different games. One of my favourite things in USUM is how good flowers and bushes look but I can not say the same thing for the city famous for its flowers.

Spoiler

I read some posts in this forum about how the low camera angle makes the game looks bad. I totally agree with that but the game doesn't look good from the top camera angle too. In XY and Links Awakening there are multiple low angles and the games and characters still look good and almost cute for Link. So this low angle thing can't be used as an excuse.

Actually, I want to say much more things but it is really hard for me to express my feelings in another language. So I might have some mistakes here and there.
I don't agree with the idea of "this is an artistic choice" because the quality is so bad. If it looked really good and if they improved the games from the last ones I would say " yes this is an artistic choice by the developers to make the game unique and nostalgic at the same time while keeping the charm of the franchise". But it feels more like "they wanted to make a quick and effortless game so they keep the map and the story the same and they didn't improve the series at all."
I have a lot of opinions about the battle screen too. I think it is very claustrophobic. But it didn't bother me at all. And I also have to say that water texture in Lake Verity looks perfect and maybe the best for the franchise but again looks incoherent with the overall game.

 

[Puddle]

Okay so when are we due for next Pokemon news? Corococo magazine?

I'm eager to see the box art, because that will probably tell us whether Dialga and Palkia are getting new forms or not. It would be nice they did get new forms, but I won't mind if they don't. There's actually only been one remake so far that gave its mascots new forms.

 

[EternalPokéFanGirl]

I don't know if I'm confused and I couldn't find any image, but in the trailer there's a place very similar to the Big Stadium and Small Court from the Black and White games, maybe we'll have similar places in the remakes as a way to make leveling up easier.

Spoiler

And about the 3D models, I think I discovered the reason behind those designs. I have two theories, the first is that they want to make their own Animal Crossing game, called Pokémon Crossing. Don't believe me? Look at the similarities .

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Is already here.

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And the second theory, my favorite, is that they want to make their own Little People Franchise, just look it's very obvious... Pokémon Little People confirmed!

Spoiler

 

[BackSet]

That's it! That last one! That's what it reminded me of!

 

[Esserise]

I don't know if I'm confused and I couldn't find any image, but in the trailer there's a place very similar to the Big Stadium and Small Court from the Black and White games, maybe we'll have similar places in the remakes as a way to make leveling up easier.

Spoiler

View attachment 140500

I think the area you're seeing in the trailer is the Union Room.

(Yes, this screen is from Gen 3 but it looks basically the same in Gen 4.)

And about the 3D models, I think I discovered the reason behind those designs. I have two theories, the first is that they want to make their own Animal Crossing game, called Pokémon Crossing. Don't believe me? Look at the similarities .

Heh. I was playing New Horizons the other day and had the same thought, lol.

 

[DynamicFusion]

Just how am I supposed to take Cyrus seriously in this chibi artstyle? Like what the hell.

 

[BackSet]

Just how am I supposed to take Cyrus seriously in this chibi artstyle? Like what the hell.

You took Cyrus seriously?

 

[Nitro Indigo]

What's interesting is that in the trailer, there's loads of people in the Union Room. The DS could support up to 16 players in multiplayer, but Diamond and Pearl only supported up to eight.

 

[Esserise]

Just how am I supposed to take Cyrus seriously in this chibi artstyle? Like what the hell.

The same way you should any aluminum-clad, powder blue-haired adult who sincerely thinks that entry-level nihilism is the ultimate truth of the world.