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Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

Guys, maybe the gameplay will be different, but do you understand that I cannot imagine these games to be just what I want them to be? They are telling me these are faithful remakes and till the moment they come and tell me "well they are not exactly faithful remakes" I have to believe what they are telling me.
And let's be honest, if "different" means that HMs are gone but the plot, the region, the fights are the same, well, they still remain faithful remakes.
As I said, it’s your prerogative to believe whatever you want about the games. You’re also completely welcome to dislike how they look so far. I think myself and others are just making the point that we’d like to see more before passing judgements, and that is ok too.
 
I'm confused. If the story is the same, wouldn't that mean the gameplay is also the same to an extent? During the early parts of the story, Mars will try to steal energy at Valley Windworks. You as the player will have to intervene to stop their plans. So in order to learn what Team Galactic is up to and proceed with the story, you have to confront Team Galactic at Valley Windworks and battle Mars.

I don't see how you'd be able to change the gameplay here. Some minor examples could include that you battle more/less grunts, if the structure/building puzzle of Valley Windworks have seen a major overhaul, if the battle with Mars is entirely optional/skipped, if there is a completely different Commander, or if there were major changes to the story (which is unlikely due to the wording of "faithful") and Team Galactic is not going to be at Valley Windworks. Even the ones I mentioned in the list are examples of minor changes/updates that it doesn't really seem like a major change in gameplay.

Just in case anyone is wondering:
Wikipedia said:
Gameplay: Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game, and in particular with video games. Gameplay is the pattern defined through the game rules, connection between player and the game, challenges and overcoming them, plot and player's connection with it.
So gameplay is heavily tied to story.
 
As I said, it’s your prerogative to believe whatever you want about the games. You’re also completely welcome to dislike how they look so far. I think myself and others are just making the point that we’d like to see more before passing judgements, and that is ok too.
What I don't agree with is that you keep saying that I want to believe this, while I keep saying that this is what they are telling me to believe and it's not my fault if I don't want to be disappointed by something they never promised me. You may want to expect something, I have learnt from experience that I should not expect something different from what I was told to expect by the people who make games. They told me something and I judge the games according to what they told me.
I never said, however, that I dislike what they look like. They look cute, not what I was expecting, but cute. The problem is that I'm not a nostalgic person and these games look like games addressed to nostalgic people. As I said, I have my 3DS and I have Pearl. If these games are "faithful remakes" as presented then they are simply not my cup of tea, I can play the orginal ones.
 
What I don't agree with is that you keep saying that I want to believe this, while I keep saying that this is what they are telling me to believe and it's not my fault if I don't want to be disappointed by something they never promised me. You may want to expect something, I have learnt from experience that I should not expect something different from what I was told to expect by the people who make games. They told me something and I judge the games according to what they told me.
I never said, however, that I dislike what they look like. They look cute, not what I was expecting, but cute. The problem is that I'm not a nostalgic person and these games look like games addressed to nostalgic people. As I said, I have my 3DS and I have Pearl. If these games are "faithful remakes" as presented then they are simply not my cup of tea, I can play the orginal ones.
What you have expressed here is not exactly the same as what they have said. You have said these games will be 1:1 remasters with no changes beyond HMs and Fairy type. The paragraph you posted simply stated that the story would be recreated and locations will be preserved.
 
1) Well, It's just that I read a lot of comments on twitter/youtube and I litterally saw no one who saw the first trailer saying: "that's exactly what I was expecting from d/p remakes". I'm totally aware that they decided against it despite knowing what people actually wanted. I would like to understand why.
Well, all I was expecting was Diamond and Pearl remakes, and we got just that. There are going to be people angry no matter what GF decides to do, so I don't know if it's a matter of them going against the wishes of the fanbase. There are far too many different opinions in the fanbase.
I think the fact that the fandom can't agree on anything is exactly why BDSP are the way they are. If they only make minimal amount of changes, then no one can say that they ruined Sinnoh. The problem is that they're going a little overboard with this mindset as to how we have somewhat-uncannny chibis in the overworld.

View: https://youtu.be/zlWARbXu4vM

If you guys wanted to know what Japanese fans thought, pretty much the same but they have their own gen 1 insult for gen 4 fans lol. Also interesting fact in the video about the naming for the remakes

This is pretty interesting. Nice to know the Japanese bros have similar outlooks to the western fandom.
 
What you have expressed here is not exactly the same as what they have said. You have said these games will be 1:1 remasters with no changes beyond HMs and Fairy type. The paragraph you posted simply stated that the story would be recreated and locations will be preserved.
No. I said that if the only things that will change are hms and fairy type, I would call these faithful remakes and not the traditional GF remakes, don't change my words.
While what you keep saying is that simply because they said faithful remakes and not 1:1 remakes you can expect the games to be somehow different from d/p. Well, for me "faithful" means exactly the opposite: a trainer with a starly in route 2 ---> a trainer with a starly in route 2.
 
While what you keep saying is that simply because they said faithful remakes and not 1:1 remakes you can expect the games to be somehow different from d/p. Well, for me "faithful" means exactly the opposite: a trainer with a starly in route 2 ---> a trainer with a starly in route 2.
No, what I’m saying is that saying “faithful” to me is not the same as implying these games will be any more similar to DP than ORAS was to RS beyond reminiscent graphic style. I’d like to see more before making that assertion. Like I said, you’re willing to interpret it however you want. Until more is explicitly shown, neither of us is correct.
 
No, what I’m saying is that saying “faithful” to me is not the same as implying these games will be any more similar to DP than ORAS was to RS beyond reminiscent graphic style. I’d like to see more before making that assertion. Like I said, you’re willing to interpret it however you want. Until more is explicitly shown, neither of us is correct.
And you are free to do that, as I always said. But you have to understand that I'm allowed by ILCA and TPCi to expect that these games will instead be faithful remakes that will preserve the graphics, the plot, the routes, the cities and the region of the original games. And they will preserve them carefullly. :)
 
And you are free to do that, as I always said. But you have to understand that I'm allowed by ILCA and TPCi to expect that these games will instead be faithful remakes that will preserve the graphics, the plot, the routes, the cities and the region of the original games. And they will preserve them carefullly. :)
Sure! I’m glad we can respectfully agree to disagree. I am still hopeful and excited for the differences and updates to the originals.
 
I think one area about the graphics made me feel the game might be more "Faithful" to the originals than other remakes in my first impression: The Trees.

In Oras, they completely modified the quantity and tree positions of old: Instead of them literally being the borders of the routes, they made fewer of them in a grassy blockade as a substitute. Even in HGSS, trees changed from one tile to 2x2 tiles in DPPT. But in these remakes, the tiling, quantity, and functionality looked exactly the same as the older games.

While it might not necessarily mean the games will have the exact same content, it feels kind of weird how they even decide to keep the somewhat dated tiling of the trees, while the other remakes tried to reimagine them, adding to my first impression of the remakes feeling identical to the older games.
 
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One other thing - and it regards the fan-made trailer.

I find it rather sad that many decided to dismiss it as, "Wake me when they make a real game." It might not be another game, but the point of it was to make us imagine what could've happened if game freak chose a more proportional artstyle - or invested their own resources/time into making the game instead of outsourcing it to a company with not as much experience.

The other thing about it made me ponder about another idea: What if Pokemon pulled a "Sonic Mania" for a new, non-remake mainline game? That is, they allowed some really creative game designers to make a 2D sprite-based pokemon game for them, based on all the accrued knowledge about the primary gameplay. Would we become dismissive about it? I'd be quite entralled to see something like that happen!
 
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One other thing - and it regards the fan-made trailer.

I find it rather sad that many decided to dismiss it as, "Wake me when they make a real game." It might not be another game, but the point of it was to make us imagine what could've happened if game freak chose a more proportional artstyle - or invested their own resources/time into making the game instead of outsourcing it to a company with not as much experience.

The other thing about it made me ponder about another idea: What if Pokemon pulled a "Sonic Mania" for a mainline game? That is, they allowed some really creative game designers to make a 2D sprite-based pokemon game for them, based on all the accrued knowledge about the primary gameplay. Would we become dismissive about it? I'd be quite entralled to see something like that happen!
Ehi, if the games look like this is probably because TPCi wanted them to look like this. ILCA has litterally 0 possibilities of deciding how Pokemon games are made, so I don't think it's fair to blame them when they were probably commisioned these exact games. And they are not so inexperienced as you would think. They have helped and worked on the graphics of Dragon Quest XI and I mean, It's not like they need GF to teach them how to do graphics:
1_g4kg.1280.jpg
 
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One other thing - and it regards the fan-made trailer.

I find it rather sad that many decided to dismiss it as, "Wake me when they make a real game." It might not be another game, but the point of it was to make us imagine what could've happened if game freak chose a more proportional artstyle - or invested their own resources/time into making the game instead of outsourcing it to a company with not as much experience.
I don’t think people (at least myself) are dismissing the trailer as much as they are asking some people to stop pushing it as part of the fallacious narrative that fan-made things are usually better than actual Pokémon games. At best, you could argue that this is a better vision for the games. You can’t argue that these are better games because, well, they aren’t games at all.
 
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I don’t think people (at least myself) are dismissing the trailer as much as they are asking some people to stop pushing it as part of the fallacious narrative that fan-made things are usually better than actual Pokémon games. At best, you could argue that this is a better vision for the games. You can’t argue that these are better games because, well, that aren’t games at all.
I have no clue how anyone could even argue that they were 'games' in the first place - or even argue, "They aren't games" as a reason to dismiss it as a 'vision' that it actually is.

Pokemon Fans can be strange some times. :/
 
I have no clue how anyone could even argue that they were 'games' in the first place - or even argue, "They aren't games" as a reason to dismiss it as a 'vision' that it actually is.

Pokemon Fans can be strange some times. :/
Exactly. Ideally fans should just take it for the nice little artistic interpretation that it is instead of using it to bash GF/ILCA or the opposite.
 
Well, It's just that I read a lot of comments on twitter/youtube and I litterally saw no one who saw the first trailer saying: "that's exactly what I was expecting from d/p remakes". I'm totally aware that they decided against it despite knowing what people actually wanted. I would like to understand why.

For better or worse, Game Freak loves to surprise players. They've said so in multiple interviews. It could be that they purposefully deviated from what most people were expecting. Splitting the Sinnoh game into two - one very faithful remake, and one radical re-imagining - was a sure-fire way to catch people off guard.

I don't usually watch reaction videos on YouTube, but the reactions to this Pokemon Presents are so fun to watch. Many people shrieked with delight and/or horror at BDSP's art style, then fell silent and awestruck as the Legends: Arceus trailer unfolded. It seems as if the trailers for these games were designed to have maximum surprise factor.

I think one area about the graphics made me feel the game might be morema "Faithful" to the originals than other remakes in my first impression: The Trees.

In Oras, they completely modified the quantity and tree positions of old: Instead of them literally being the borders of the routes, they made fewer of them in a grassy blockade as a substitute. Even in HGSS, trees changed from one tile to 2x2 tiles in DPPT. But in these remakes, the tiling, quantity, and functionality looked exactly the same as the older games.

While it might not necessarily mean the games will have the exact same content, it feels kind of weird how they even decide to keep the somewhat dated tiling of the trees, while the other remakes tried to reimagine them, adding to my first impression of the remakes feeling identical to the older games.

I was surprised about the trees, too! This is what I thought the routes in this game would look like...

IMG_1211.JPG

That being said, I find the overworld style they went with really charming, now I've got used to it. I always loved the classic overworlds in Gens 1-5, there was something so satisfying about how everything fitted together. It's good to know that they haven't forgotten about that style completely.

One other thing - and it regards the fan-made trailer.

I find it rather sad that many decided to dismiss it as, "Wake me when they make a real game." It might not be another game, but the point of it was to make us imagine what could've happened if game freak chose a more proportional artstyle - or invested their own resources/time into making the game instead of outsourcing it to a company with not as much experience.

Exactly! It's not a real game, but it is possible to develop games that look like that. That's the point that people who share the video - and perhaps also the animator - are trying to make. I'm not sure if I necessarily agree that the Sinnoh remakes should have looked like that, because I like the look of the games we are getting, but it's a valid argument.

I think I might have been disappointed if BDSP was all we were getting (or, for that matter, if Legends was all we were getting), but with the two games seemingly being designed to compliment one another, I'm excited. I get the impression that Game Freak and the Pokemon Company sat down and said, "How can we satisfy the fans who want a nostalgic re-creation of Sinnoh, and the ones who want a radically re-imagined Sinnoh?" Splitting the project into two separate games is the solution they came up with. I think it's a great idea.
 
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I don't usually watch reaction videos on YouTube, but the reactions to this Pokemon Presents are so fun to watch. Many people shrieked with delight and/or horror at BDSP's art style, then fell silent and awestruck as the Legends: Arceus trailer unfolded. It seems as if the trailers for these games were designed to have maximum surprise factor.
I personally like most reaction videos. What I saw was people shrieking out their excitement when they saw Sinnoh, and then either fell silent or went "What?!" when actual gameplay started.
 
I had an interesting thought. If Pokemon Camp doesn't return as something we can do anywhere, I wonder if Amity Square could be made into a camping area since before it was a place to chill with certain Pokémon. Now, it would be annoying to not be able to use camp anywhere at will (and tbh I DO want camp to return as it was in SWSH), but if not, I thought this could be an interesting alternative. Pokemon would pick up random items in Amity Square, which can also happen in camp so I think it could mesh will hypothetically.
 
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