BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[Kallyle]

Okay, so about the ‘new’ news:

• Going back to single-use TMs just for the sake of nostalgia is an odd choice. I really hope multiples of them aren’t locked to the post game.
• The Amnity Square restriction being kept is a really unnecessary implementation just to keep things ‘faithful.’ Also, taking away the multiplayer Poffin making is a very odd choice when you could just let ILCA borrow how Game Freak implemented multiplayer curry making.
• If Secret Bases are just for placing statues and there’s no more capture the flag mini game, then what’s the point of having secret bases in the first place? What’s the point of making other players visible in the Underground if you’re not going to let us interact with them? It really seems like the only reason we have the Grand Underground right now is to keep the route encounters the exact same as DP.

In terms of existing features that aren’t quality of life ones, they either stripped them down (only one move per Super Contest and removing capturing flags from the Grand Underground) or kept the less-liked aspects of the original DP exactly the same as before just for nostalgia’s sake (single button Pokétch and possibly sheen if they don’t make it work like resetting EVs). I doubt they’ll even build the game’s level curve around the Exp. Share and might even have all Gym Leaders use their DP teams instead of their Platinum teams despite us supposedly getting access to the Platinum Pokédex ourselves!

The new features we do have are pretty good, but they seem to be either solely aesthetic or only exist to cover up another dumb decision made to keep the nostalgia factor.

Overall, this is telling me that the only things TPC seems to think is worth investing time in is 1) a simplified and easy main campaign and 2) is straight-up battling and trading, the absolute bare minimum of the multiplayer Pokémon experience. Don’t get me wrong; I think ILCA is doing a great job on these remakes! However, there just isn’t enough for me to justify my purchase of BDSP. I ultimately think TPC would’ve been better off porting Platinum (including all of it features like the Battle Frontier and the WiFi Plaza, as well as Platinum’s story), splitting it in two for version exclusives (including Dialga and Palkia), and calling them Diamond and Pearl: Premium edition.

 

[Poke Dragon]

I agree that the Amity Square restriction is just unnecessary. I understand the restriction was needed in the original games given not every Pokemon had sprites that faced in every direction until HGSS, but now that Pokemon games use models, this restriction simply isn't needed at all. I hope they will give us an option to give exceptions so that we can get around the restriction in some way.

 

[Nicolas721]

I think TMs not being reusable isn't because of nostalgia but because of Game Freak's new philosophy of making items more valuable. We already saw it in SWSH, TRs and EXP Candy were made the main reason people would do raids, and the DLC is filled with items everywhere as well as new methods to obtain them. I expect that to continue with Legends and Gen IX. I was worried that there would be no way to obtain more TMs until the postgame, but yeah, the Underground does seem like a very obvious option, using the statues not only would get you more Pokemon but also new items.

The Amity Square still having restrictions is something I saw coming since the trailer didn't show any big one (it did when Amie was announced), but I do expect for the roster to include most first-stages and some small final-stages like Loppuny.

 

[Aulos]

How is it that these games are so painfully conservative (including going back to single use TMs) but then when it comes to one of the worst issues of Sword/Shield - EXP Share always on, they bring it over?

Also, I never liked Amity Square telling me which Pokemon were cute and which were not. I have my own opinions.

 

[prog rocker]

Also, I never liked Amity Square telling me which Pokemon were cute and which were not. I have my own opinions.

Same. I guess we both agree with that one Black Belt.

 

[Esserise]

• If Secret Bases are just for placing statues and there’s no more capture the flag mini game, then what’s the point of having secret bases in the first place?

You kind of answered your own question there: The point is to have a place to set down statues, which influence the types of stuff that appear in the Hideaways.

Though I do feel like they should have renamed them to something else, like "Trophy Rooms."

I think TMs not being reusable isn't because of nostalgia but because of Game Freak's new philosophy of making items more valuable. We already saw it in SWSH, TRs and EXP Candy were made the main reason people would do raids, and the DLC is filled with items everywhere as well as new methods to obtain them. I expect that to continue with Legends and Gen IX. I was worried that there would be no way to obtain more TMs until the postgame, but yeah, the Underground does seem like a very obvious option, using the statues not only would get you more Pokemon but also new items.

This. It's not a "Man, remember how fun single-use TMs were back then?" sort of thing, it's just them thinking about what kinds of renewable resources they can have players continually wanting. Obviously they've realized by now that only giving you one copy of a TM ever is a loathsome kind of game design (especially with the high desirability of certain moves in the competitive scene), so I don't think they're ever going to back to that - but a one-use item that you can always go back and get more of is standard fare for RPGs. So really it's just a matter accessibility, of how well they distribute these TMs.

Another possibility I could see is being able to exchange Spheres for TMs, much like SwSh's Watt Traders. It'd encourage players to keep playing the mining game and to spend lots of time in the Grand Underground.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Also, I never liked Amity Square telling me which Pokemon were cute and which were not. I have my own opinions.

Same. I guess we both agree with that one Black Belt.

Even worse is how incredibly limited the options were, especially since a lot of Pokemon that could be considered conventionally cute were inexplicably left out (I know I've complained about this twice already, but Pichu and Cleffa somehow not being considered cute when their freaking evolved forms are is just so, so weird to me). Platinum did at least let you take out the Gen 4 starters in all their stages, which mixed things up quite a bit by adding a small handful of unconventionally cute choices. But again, it seems like Eevee -who wasn't originally elegible for a stroll in the DPP Amity Square- was added to the "cute" roster, so it's very likely that there will be other additions alongside it.

...

So here's my guesses/personal choices for other potential new Amity Square additions:

• All the Baby Pokemon, or at least all the ones available in the DPP Pokedex (like I said a few posts above, it'd be great to be able to take these guys out for a walk in an exclusive area to raise their friendship and help speed up their evolution)
• Starly
• Shinx
• Buizel
• Marill
• Misdreavus
• Wooper
• Duskull
• Snorunt
• Snover
• Ralts
• The other two Hoenn starters (Torchic's already there, so might as well complete the set)
• Combee (mainly so that there's at least some benefit to catching a male one)
• Bidoof (no, this is not me being a memelord; Psyduck's presence in the list of Amity Square-approved Pokemon proves that goofy-looking Pokemon can be considered cute, so why not Bidoof?)

 

[Esserise]

Another thing worth noting is that the original Great Marsh mechanics are back, as shown in this video:

 

[Welkamo]

I'm not really affected by anything involving online stuff (multiplayer Poffins, flag games, etc.) because I don't have friends to play Pokémon with . It's kind of sad that it seems like Poké Dolls aren't coming back (I could be wrong, though) but at least we have statues, which is better than nothing. The real question is can I place more than one statue of the same Pokémon.

The Great Marsh looks cool, even if that was one was one of my least favorite parts of Platinum.

Is that Clefairy place a Game Corner??? (Or something like a Game Corner)

 

[Esserise]

Is that Clefairy place a Game Corner??? (Or something like a Game Corner)

It's a clothing shop now. (But thankfully they kept the Game Corner music!)

 

[Welkamo]

It's a clothing shop now. (But thankfully they kept the Game Corner music!)

That's cute (But where are we going to have our floating crap game)

Another possibility I could see is being able to exchange Spheres for TMs, much like SwSh's Watt Traders. It'd encourage players to keep playing the mining game and to spend lots of time in the Grand Underground.

If they did this, then maybe I wouldn't hate spheres as much as I do (okay maybe I don't hate them, but they are annoying)

 

[colours]

kinda w/e about one-time TMs returning as long as, like most people in this thread have mentioned, the player can easily obtain them again. it was quite agonizing back in the ~* old days *~ trying to figure out who to teach moves like eq and stone edge to. @_@

 

[Juliko]

I am a little meh on the EXP Share always being on, but everything else is okay to me.

 

[colours]

i mean no genuine disrespect or rudeness, but i wish someone can explain the benefits of having exp share off. back in the older generations when it was more optional, i was swapping pokemon in and out to gain exp for each one of them anyway, so it might as well have been on since the beginning. i can see the logic of EVs being potentially messed up, but it's nothing EV-reducing berries can't solve (making a big assumption they're very easily obtainable in this game).

am i missing something? .-.

 

[Kallyle]

i mean no genuine disrespect or rudeness, but i wish someone can explain the benefits of having exp share off. back in the older generations when it was more optional, i was swapping pokemon in and out to gain exp for each one of them anyway, so it might as well have been on since the beginning. i can see the logic of EVs being potentially messed up, but it's nothing EV-reducing berries can't solve (making a big assumption they're very easily obtainable in this game).

am i missing something? .-.

It’s mostly because the games aren’t ever balanced around said Exp. Share, making it easy to overlevel your Pokémon. Having to constantly deposit your Pokémon so they don’t get overleved is more annoying than putting a toggle option for it, plus if give you a choice of whether or not you want to use it. When you think of it that way, removing the option to turn it off is essentially an extension of “Game Freak is deliberately making these game easier even though Pokémon was easy to begin with.” I wouldn’t have as much of a problem if they maybe nerfed the amount of experience that your Pokémon gain under the new system until the post game, but they they won’t.

Hope I cleared things up for you!

 

[Daren]

i mean no genuine disrespect or rudeness, but i wish someone can explain the benefits of having exp share off. back in the older generations when it was more optional, i was swapping pokemon in and out to gain exp for each one of them anyway, so it might as well have been on since the beginning. i can see the logic of EVs being potentially messed up, but it's nothing EV-reducing berries can't solve (making a big assumption they're very easily obtainable in this game).

am i missing something? .-.

Exp share made Sword/Shield so easy they honestly became boring for a lot of people. Removing it would help avoid that fate for future games.
They can also mess up EV training in annoying ways.

 

[colours]

i suppose i feel this way because i'm so used to playing other jrpgs where like, shared exp among all included party members is pretty standard, yknow? i also get that it probably makes some pokemon games easier with it on, but pokemon games aren't typically hard to begin with, so at most i feel like having the option to turn it off creates artificial difficulty rather than actual difficulty... if that makes any sort of sense ><

 

[Enzo]

i mean no genuine disrespect or rudeness, but i wish someone can explain the benefits of having exp share off. back in the older generations when it was more optional, i was swapping pokemon in and out to gain exp for each one of them anyway, so it might as well have been on since the beginning. i can see the logic of EVs being potentially messed up, but it's nothing EV-reducing berries can't solve (making a big assumption they're very easily obtainable in this game).

am i missing something? .-.

Adding to what @Daren said:

Exp share made Sword/Shield so easy they honestly became boring for a lot of people. Removing it would help avoid that fate for future games.
They can also mess up EV training in annoying ways.

I think it's also a matter of you not letting your player have a choice when it comes to that, you know? Like, why not give people the option to not have Exp. Share on all the time? Like... in what aspect is giving the player the option to have a certain setting on or off a bad thing?

Some people, like me, live to have Exp. Share on. Some others don't, and both sides have their reasonings and it ultimately comes down to personal playstyle preference and that's all fine and all, really. And it gets even crazier because XY and SM/USUM all had that option, so I sincerely see no reason to remove that, because it's not like they had never gave us that choice in the past.

 

[colours]

but i don't understand the practical benefits of having it off besides not overleveling (which i suppose is more of an issue with poor level scaling in pokemon games making it perhaps easy to overwhelm the AI than anything to do with exp share itself). but, as i mentioned, i feel that's influenced by my own thoughts of it being that pokemon games were never really that difficult to begin with. hm.

 

[Daren]

i suppose i feel this way because i'm so used to playing other jrpgs where like, shared exp among all included party members is pretty standard, yknow? i also get that it probably makes some pokemon games easier with it on, but pokemon games aren't typically hard to begin with, so at most i feel like having the option to turn it off creates artificial difficulty rather than actual difficulty... if that makes any sort of sense ><

I get what you mean--in general I think grinding is a poor way to make a game harder. I think a properly designed RPG is one where you can grind if you really need to but playing in a fairly thorough fashion will put you at a good level for the content.
The problem is that Pokémon bombed the level curve in Sw/Sh if you try to do a fairly thorough game unless you're constantly swapping around, which can get irritating if you prefer to use a main party like me.
In BDSP's case I expect it to be particularly bad with the much larger number of trainers in it compared to Sw/Sh.
It's not like there aren't ways to handle it.
Have you played any Suikoden games? I think a Suikoden style levelling system would be a good solution to the problem. You wouldn't need to grind but you won't get accidentally overleveled, either. Suikoden's also a pretty easy series (though it's a lot more story heavy than Pokémon which surely helps).

but i don't understand the practical benefits of having it off besides not overleveling (which i suppose is more of an issue with poor level scaling in pokémon games making it perhaps easy to overwhelm the AI than anything to do with exp share itself). but, as i mentioned, i feel that's influenced by my own thoughts of it being that pokemon games were never really that difficult to begin with. hm.

They've always been easy, but Sw/Sh just took it too way far for me.
I replayed Platinum right after I finished Sword and Heartgold a bit later. It was not hard--I've played games like Romancing SaGa 2 and Baldur's Gate--but I at least had some interesting battles thanks to my challenge ruleset.
Said ruleset as no match for Sword's insistence on making the game a breeze, though. I at least had to use several Pokémon to defeat Cyrus; Rose just got swept effortlessly. Leon was the only decent match in the entire main game. Mustard was a decent boss in the DLC but still paled compared to previous post-game bosses, even ignoring the Battle Frontier.

It doesn't help they still won't even include difficulty settings.