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Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

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Squirtle joined the Squirtle squad to help out his friends. It's not too much of a different situation.
Yes, Squirtle joined the Squirtle Squad to help out its friends, but there's a key difference between that situation and Goodra's. Squirtle wasn't stuck in just one place. Being the leader of the Squirtle Squad would require it to go beyond just one area to fight fires and train the other Squirtle. We have seen that Officer Jenny is able to bring it to Ash at least to Johto and Kanto when he was in the Battle Frontier. Goodra's situation isn't that similar. It is in the wetlands and there is no indication that the keeper of the wetlands has its Pokeball or that Ash could contact him to get Goodra back like with Officer Jenny.

Sure, both Pokemon left to help their friends, but that's really ignoring the key differences in their situations to make Goodra's situation sound more different than it actually is. Squirtle did leave to help its friends, but through training as their leader rather than staying behind in its homeland to protect its friends. If they just threw that scene there as a cameo to remind the audience of Goodra instead of bringing it back, I'd be fine with that.
 
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Yes, Squirtle joined the Squirtle Squad to help out its friends, but there's a key difference between that situation and Goodra's. Squirtle wasn't stuck in just one place. Being the leader of the Squirtle Squad would require it to go beyond just one area to fight fires and train the other Squirtle. We have seen that Officer Jenny is able to bring it to Ash at least to Johto and Kanto when he was in the Battle Frontier. Goodra's situation isn't that similar. It is in the wetlands and there is no indication that the keeper of the wetlands has its Pokeball or that Ash could contact him to get Goodra back like with Officer Jenny.
God what does that have to do with why the pokemon got released? Squirtle left to train the other pokemon and Goodra left to protect the swamp. Squirtle not sticking to one place made it even worse, since Ash doesn't know where he is and what he is doing and still Squirtle came back and all released pokemon don't know where Ash is. Squirtle suddenly abandone his duty to battle with Ash is more dumb than an potential Goodra return.

Ash knows where Goodra is, he could call him back or the old man bring Goodra to Ash since the way from the swamp and the league isn't far away ingame and call it a day.
 
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At the very least, I could see that Goodra scene being a way for the writers to write Goodra back into Ash's team if they want to. Goodra just has to watch the TV and see something like Ash's first league battle and then all that has to happen for it to rejoin Ash is for Keanan to drop Goodra off a la Officer Jenny/Squirtle.

Personally, I'd like to see Goodra make a comeback. I enjoyed watching it and would love to see it in some league battles. That and if Goodra becomes Ash's 6th pokemon to use for the league, then for the first time ever, Ash's regional pokemon are all fully evolved/can't evolve further which I think is cool.
 
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I don't think that there was any indication that the old man has Goodra's Pokeball or any means of contacting Ash. This also isn't like what happened with Charizard, Squirtle or Gliscor. They all left for training. Goodra left to be the new protector of its homeland. There's a pretty big difference there. They're watching Serena's performance, but I don't think that necessarily means that they've been in contact with the old man. I still wouldn't be surprised if they did bring back Goodra and that scene might be used as foreshadowing its return, but I still really hope not. That's really just going to sour my opinion of Ash's XY team much more than it already is. Not to mention it would make me question why they bothered to release the darn thing in the first place if they were just going to bring it back for the League.
For Charizard and Gliscor, yes there was training. For Squirtle, no I don't think there ever an indication that he left for training. If anything, Squirtle returns to the Squirtle Squad because they needed their leader back. There was no indication that he left to become stronger for Ash like Charizard or Gliscor. The only reason why some consider it "In-training" is because Bulbapedia had categorize it as such in the category box. A more accurate title would be "Can be called upon". And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the story arc of Ash's Charizard mostly done with Chariffic Valley episode? Even Dogasu himself proclaims there's nothing much for Charizard to do after Ash earns his respect when he reviewed that episode.
 
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For Charizard and Gliscor, yes there was training. For Squirtle, no I don't think there ever an indication that he left for training. If anything, Squirtle returns to the Squirtle Squad because they needed their leader back. There was no indication that he left to become stronger for Ash like Charizard or Gliscor. The only reason why some consider it "In-training" is because Bulbapedia had categorize it as such in the category box. A more accurate title would be "Can be called upon". And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the story arc of Ash's Charizard mostly done with Chariffic Valley episode? Even Dogasu himself proclaims there's nothing much for Charizard to do after Ash earns his respect when he reviewed that episode.
He left to train with the Squirtle Squad. It isn't exactly like with Charizard or Gliscor, but I think it's close enough, or at least closer to what happened with them than with Goodra's situation. Squirtle would naturally get stronger fighting fires, which I'm pretty sure the show did mention when it returned in the Johto League. It did leave to become their leader again, but it still did some training too.

As for Charizard, you could say that it's story was pretty much done after it started to listen to Ash, but the writers weren't really set on leaving Charizard for good either. It came back for the third movie, which was a first for any of Ash's released Pokemon, came back twice during Johto proper and being arguably the most popular out of the final Kanto starters would give it more of an marketable edge than what Goodra has. They established pretty early on that Charizard wasn't going to be gone for good. They haven't really done that with Goodra, it doesn't have as much of a marketable draw to it compared to the first generation starters and bringing it back just so that Ash can have a full team still seems like a lousy reason to me.
 
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I don't see that as foreshadowing. I mean, Korrina and Lucario were shown as well, but I certainly don't think they'll come back either just because of a quick cameo.

And I'm not against Goodra returning, I'm just not using that scene as evidence.
Well, I was just hoping he would return, I didn't say he's going to return but I really want Goodra to come back and help Ash in the league just like Gliscor, it's not bad writing or anything, Ash left it to protect the swamp but now that everything is fine over there, why not return? I swear people nitpick and complain about little things and claim them as sloppy or bad writing, omg...
 
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Well, I was just hoping he would return, I didn't say he's going to return but I really want Goodra to come back and help Ash in the league just like Gliscor, it's not bad writing or anything, Ash left it to protect the swamp but now that everything is fine over there, why not return? I swear people nitpick and complain about little things and claim them as sloppy or bad writing, omg...
Except when there is no justification and outright looks like a cop out to prevent Ash from actually catching another Pokemon?

Nitpick or not, this is indeed both sloppy AND bad writing.
 
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Well, I was just hoping he would return, I didn't say he's going to return but I really want Goodra to come back and help Ash in the league just like Gliscor, it's not bad writing or anything, Ash left it to protect the swamp but now that everything is fine over there, why not return? I swear people nitpick and complain about little things and claim them as sloppy or bad writing, omg...
With that logic, there was no reason for Goodra to stay behind in the first place because everything was already fine after Florges' group stopped attacking the other Pokemon. It's fine if you want Goodra to return and you're more than welcome to disagree with people on the matter, but dismissing people who don't want that to happen as just people who nitpick and complain about little things to claim them as sloppy or bad writing is extremely rude. I especially don't appreciate trying to be rude and insulting towards others indirectly. That does not make the insults any less upsetting, so please be more respectful than that in the future.

Bringing back Goodra at this point would be sloppy bad writing and really none of the arguments I've heard for bringing Goodra back have really convinced me otherwise. Goodra wanting to help Ash would make sense, but why would they release it only to bring it back when Ash already has another fully evolved Dragon Pokemon on his team already? It just seems like it would be a way for Ash to get a full Kalos team without capturing a new Pokemon, which would come off as a bit lazy. At least with Gliscor, there was justification for it to come back for the full battle against Paul. There isn't an in-universe justification for bringing Goodra back and wanting to help Ash wouldn't be enough in my opinion. Yeah, we're late into the series as it is, but I'd rather another Gible situation, especially when I thought that Gible was handled pretty well for a late series capture, than just bringing Goodra back because they didn't want to bring in a new Pokemon.
 
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With that logic, there was no reason for Goodra to stay behind in the first place because everything was already fine after Florges' group stopped attacking the other Pokemon. It's fine if you want Goodra to return and you're more than welcome to disagree with people on the matter, but dismissing people who don't want that to happen as just people who nitpick and complain about little things to claim them as sloppy or bad writing is extremely rude. I especially don't appreciate trying to be rude and insulting towards others indirectly. That does not make the insults any less upsetting, so please be more respectful than that in the future.

Bringing back Goodra at this point would be sloppy bad writing and really none of the arguments I've heard for bringing Goodra back have really convinced me otherwise. Goodra wanting to help Ash would make sense, but why would they release it only to bring it back when Ash already has another fully evolved Dragon Pokemon on his team already? It just seems like it would be a way for Ash to get a full Kalos team without capturing a new Pokemon, which would come off as a bit lazy. At least with Gliscor, there was justification for it to come back for the full battle against Paul. There isn't an in-universe justification for bringing Goodra back and wanting to help Ash wouldn't be enough in my opinion. Yeah, we're late into the series as it is, but I'd rather another Gible situation, especially when I thought that Gible was handled pretty well for a late series capture, than just bringing Goodra back because they didn't want to bring in a new Pokemon.
The same reason why Squirtle would return for the Silver Conference and the Battle Frontier despite having no real reason to do so other than being Ash's partner once. As for the supposed release, a Pokémon like Goodra can be considered to be too powerful to keep on the team for a long period of time, especially if the other Pokémon like Talonflame and Greninja were not fully evolved yet. It's the Charizard-scenario of Johto. Ash's Charizard was used heavily and early on, and he pretty much makes everything too easy for Ash (Charizard vs Chikorita). The real question is, however, why even have Goodra's story arc in the first place? Why have it be the star of one of the most hyped Gym Battles of XY only to release it afterwards without even a promise of the League? Why just have Goodra completely disappear after its arc is finished when you can have one last hurrah in XY?

And really, Goodra is notably different compare to say Noivern. Noivern is a flying speedster, all about wind and agility while Goodra is virtually a massive tank like Snorlax, able to take multiple heavy hits and striking down with full force. Considering that a complaint about Ash's Kalos Team is that they are too heavily reliant on speed and quite frail in the process, Goodra provides a nice counterbalance to the equation. Suffice to say, Goodra's chances of returning are much higher than one would expect, regardless of whether it's sloppy writing or not.
 
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The same reason why Squirtle would return for the Silver Conference and the Battle Frontier despite having no real reason to do so other than being Ash's partner once. As for the supposed release, a Pokémon like Goodra can be considered to be too powerful to keep on the team for a long period of time, especially if the other Pokémon like Talonflame and Greninja were not fully evolved yet. It's the Charizard-scenario of Johto. Ash's Charizard was used heavily and early on, and he pretty much makes everything too easy for Ash (Charizard vs Chikorita). The real question is, however, why even have Goodra's story arc in the first place? Why have it be the star of one of the most hyped Gym Battles of XY only to release it afterwards without even a promise of the League? Why just have Goodra completely disappear after its arc is finished when you can have one last hurrah in XY?

And really, Goodra is notably different compare to say Noivern. Noivern is a flying speedster, all about wind and agility while Goodra is virtually a massive tank like Snorlax, able to take multiple heavy hits and striking down with full force. Considering that a complaint about Ash's Kalos Team is that they are too heavily reliant on speed and quite frail in the process, Goodra provides a nice counterbalance to the equation. Suffice to say, Goodra's chances of returning are much higher than one would expect, regardless of whether it's sloppy writing or not.
Except all out offense team is more than viable even in the game now? And speedy is Ash's style, so I don't see how not having a bulky Pokemon is a problem.

Goodra? Too strong?........ Charizard Scenario?.............. I recommend you to watch the episodes Goodra is in again. He is nowhere close to being stronger than Ash's other Pokemon, in fact if he come back now he is probably the weakest link in Ash's team, as Ash cannot use him effectively and he is not as strong as people make it out to be.
 
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The same reason why Squirtle would return for the Silver Conference and the Battle Frontier despite having no real reason to do so other than being Ash's partner once. As for the supposed release, a Pokémon like Goodra can be considered to be too powerful to keep on the team for a long period of time, especially if the other Pokémon like Talonflame and Greninja were not fully evolved yet. It's the Charizard-scenario of Johto. Ash's Charizard was used heavily and early on, and he pretty much makes everything too easy for Ash (Charizard vs Chikorita). The real question is, however, why even have Goodra's story arc in the first place? Why have it be the star of one of the most hyped Gym Battles of XY only to release it afterwards without even a promise of the League? Why just have Goodra completely disappear after its arc is finished when you can have one last hurrah in XY?

And really, Goodra is notably different compare to say Noivern. Noivern is a flying speedster, all about wind and agility while Goodra is virtually a massive tank like Snorlax, able to take multiple heavy hits and striking down with full force. Considering that a complaint about Ash's Kalos Team is that they are too heavily reliant on speed and quite frail in the process, Goodra provides a nice counterbalance to the equation. Suffice to say, Goodra's chances of returning are much higher than one would expect, regardless of whether it's sloppy writing or not.
The Charizard-scenario of Johto comparison actually does kind of work, at least in terms of being overpowered. They did need to make room for Cyndaquil, but Charizard being so powerful was a factor, especially when they did have to give Falkner a different team just to make him more of a challenge with Charizard. Not to mention Ash was using Charizard fairly frequently early on in Johto and they usually had to think of reasons as to why Ash didn't have an easy victory with it.

That being said, that reasoning still kind of bothers me, but I think it's mainly due to how rushed Goodra's development and storyline were more than anything else. I get not wanting Ash to have an overpowered Pokemon when neither Greninja or Talonflame had evolved yet, but they thought it was a good idea to rush through its evolutions ridiculously fast, so the writing there still seems pretty shaky at best. Plus, it's not like Ash would have breezed through the rest of the Gyms with Goodra. It's weak against Fairy and Ice types and I don't think it would have been helpful in a Psychic type Gym, especially in that tag battle. At least with Charizard, it had an advantage over many Johto Gyms, including the one Ash was heading towards when he left it, and it was early on in the journey. Ash was halfway done with his Kalos Gym badge journey by the time Goodra evolved and after Clemont's Gym, there wasn't a Gym where Goodra would have a significant type advantage over the Gym Leader. Just because Goodra might not return for the League doesn't suddenly make its storyline or being featured in a big Gym battle questionable. They wanted to do something different with Goodra by giving it a subplot. The conclusion to its arc could already be seen as its last hurrah in XY too. I do have my problems with Goodra's storyline as a whole, but that conclusion was fitting for the character and the subplot. If they had been able to stretch it out until the tail end of the series, or maybe until a bit before the last Gym or two, I probably would have been more satisfied with Goodra than I currently am. It's living happily with all of its friends and it's strong enough to protect them, which is what it wanted. I don't know if a last hurrah is even necessary with an ending like that in mind.

I'm not saying that Goodra and Noivern are exactly the same. I'm saying that we don't really need two fully evolved Dragon Pokemon on Ash's XY team, especially when there is already the complaint of his lack of variety with three part Flying types. Yes, they're all different kinds of Flying types, but the lack of variety is still apparent, much more so than with some of his other teams. I'm also not saying that there's no chance of Goodra returning. As I've said before, I would not be surprised if it does happen due to its popularity. I just don't want it to happen for the reasons I've already covered and probably will cover again. I'm sure people will be happy to see Goodra again, but I probably won't be one of them. They can find ways to improve Ash's XY team without bringing back Goodra, especially when Ash tends to go for speedy Pokemon with his battle style anyway.
 
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I am not convinced of Goodra returning. Merchandise and cameo appearance isn't enough in my opinion. The episode of it returning would be more convincing or the opening/ending scene that has Goodra with Ash's other pokemon would be convincing also. I am sticking with a 6th capture like Phantump or Bergmite for now.
 
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Except when there is no justification and outright looks like a cop out to prevent Ash from actually catching another Pokemon?

Nitpick or not, this is indeed both sloppy AND bad writing.
Look yes the release of Goodra was bad because it happened at the wrong time, and to make things worse YES the writers have screwed Ash's team up, badly by not giving him a full team.

However we haven't even heard or merchandise of hinting at Ash capturing another Pokemon.

What I find interesting is how its more acceptable to somehow bring back one of Ash's previous team members from a previous generation but NOT the same Pokemon Ash caught and used within the same generation just because it's sloppy and bad writing.

Look the thing is, and I think most people would understand is that IT WOULD be Goodra's decision. See, the thing is if the writers wanted it, Goodra could've refused to be let go, but for plot reasons that I will never understand since they did absolute jack squat to fill the vacant hole they left on Ash's team, because Goodra was apparently too strong, the only acceptable reason for why the gave it a backstory to begin with just to release it.

The thing is, if GOODRA wants to come back and help Ash out, how is that bad writing.

I can't imagine how much of a dick Ash would look like if he said "NO! You STAY with your friends! I don't want you on my team! You're USELESS! NO!"

And that's why I will never buy that it would be bad writing to bring Goodra back to Ash.

Maybe bad writing in the sense that Goodra was just sitting in the wetlands for ~50 episode not doing anything, but how is that different than Ash calling back Torterra or Infernape who haven't shown up in ~200 episodes not counting the image photo in the last episode of 5th generation which is honestly while fine would be considered worse writing than Goodra coming back because Torterra/Infernape have nothing to do with Ash's Kalos journey so bringing them back makes NO sense whatsoever outside of being a treat for past generation fans for nostalgia. While it was cool for Ash to use a lot of his past generation Pokemon for the 4th generation it did rob a lot of focus from his 4th generation team. Only Infernape, Gliscor, and Gible ever really did anything. Torterra, Buizel and to a lesser extent Staraptor were relegated to "just another Pokemon" role. Sure it was cool to see Donphan, Noctowl, Sceptile and the likes, sure, but why is something like that MORE acceptable.

But bad writing to the already written story of a release? Doesn't that rob the concept of Pokemon being allowed to make decisions themselves? It's easy to say that Goodra's storyline is finished and doesn't need to come back, but that ultimately snubs the opportunity to even come back.

Well I had fun with this woman, but our storyline finished, hope to never see her again.......I mean that's a pretty bad example, but the simple fact is, the very concept that Goodra can decide for itself what it wants to do, and wanting to battle with Ash again in the league, seems more realistic than assuming Ash is an asshole and would be glad to never see Goodra back again just because Ash brought it "home"
 
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Look yes the release of Goodra was bad because it happened at the wrong time, and to make things worse YES the writers have screwed Ash's team up, badly by not giving him a full team.

However we haven't even heard or merchandise of hinting at Ash capturing another Pokemon.

What I find interesting is how its more acceptable to somehow bring back one of Ash's previous team members from a previous generation but NOT the same Pokemon Ash caught and used within the same generation just because it's sloppy and bad writing.

Look the thing is, and I think most people would understand is that IT WOULD be Goodra's decision. See, the thing is if the writers wanted it, Goodra could've refused to be let go, but for plot reasons that I will never understand since they did absolute jack squat to fill the vacant hole they left on Ash's team, because Goodra was apparently too strong, the only acceptable reason for why the gave it a backstory to begin with just to release it.

The thing is, if GOODRA wants to come back and help Ash out, how is that bad writing.

I can't imagine how much of a dick Ash would look like if he said "NO! You STAY with your friends! I don't want you on my team! You're USELESS! NO!"

And that's why I will never buy that it would be bad writing to bring Goodra back to Ash.

Maybe bad writing in the sense that Goodra was just sitting in the wetlands for ~50 episode not doing anything, but how is that different than Ash calling back Torterra or Infernape who haven't shown up in ~200 episodes not counting the image photo in the last episode of 5th generation which is honestly while fine would be considered worse writing than Goodra coming back because Torterra/Infernape have nothing to do with Ash's Kalos journey so bringing them back makes NO sense whatsoever outside of being a treat for past generation fans for nostalgia. While it was cool for Ash to use a lot of his past generation Pokemon for the 4th generation it did rob a lot of focus from his 4th generation team. Only Infernape, Gliscor, and Gible ever really did anything. Torterra, Buizel and to a lesser extent Staraptor were relegated to "just another Pokemon" role. Sure it was cool to see Donphan, Noctowl, Sceptile and the likes, sure, but why is something like that MORE acceptable.

But bad writing to the already written story of a release? Doesn't that rob the concept of Pokemon being allowed to make decisions themselves? It's easy to say that Goodra's storyline is finished and doesn't need to come back, but that ultimately snubs the opportunity to even come back.

Well I had fun with this woman, but our storyline finished, hope to never see her again.......I mean that's a pretty bad example, but the simple fact is, the very concept that Goodra can decide for itself what it wants to do, and wanting to battle with Ash again in the league, seems more realistic than assuming Ash is an asshole and would be glad to never see Goodra back again just because Ash brought it "home"
So you suggested that having Goodra come back is better than his reserves? OK thats fine. But at this point a new capture will be objectively better than Goodra coming back, with all the reasons Hidden Mew stated.

Seriously, even if no capture is hinted it doesn't mean there is no captures going to happen. At this point I am only hoping for the best for the series. I really really don't want to see they choose the second best option when a better one is available.
 
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If Goodra returns, I see it as a one-three episode thing for one special battle in the league. But I think it will return to the wetlands pretty much straight away. You could also look at Goodra training its friends in the wetlands, therefore training itself, but that wouldn't be related to bringing it back. I'll generally stay out of this discussion for a bit and just analyse other opinions. I don't like conflict :)

But yes, I think that anything is currently possible including a capture, Goodra's return, and older Pokemon returning or a Braixen evolution. I can't really expect anything but a surprise.
 
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I don't know if Goodra would be training its friends at the wetland and thus training itself. It wouldn't be impossible, especially since Ash's reserved Pokemon seemingly train while at Professor Oak's place based on the new moves they use, but it seems way more of a stretch to me. There was no indication that Goodra would help its friends get stronger by living with them. I'm also not sure if it would get that much stronger living in the wetlands, especially when Goodra was already overpowered as it was and I'm not sure how much danger they faced before Florges' group showed up.

Goodra going back to the wetlands right away would make sense, but that would still show a major problem. Instead of giving Ash a sixth Pokemon for his team, he'd just give him back his overpowered Goodra for one episode, or however long he needs it for the League. That just screams lazy to me.
 
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As much as I want Ash to capture that Shiny Phantump, I don't think it will happen. Not only hasn't it appeared in any merchandise, recent trailers for M19 showed Ash still having only 5 Pokémon.
 
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