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Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

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Well, no one expects development out of Dragonite and gengar at this point. As other users mentioned, their character arc stated and ended in their capture episodes.
There’s different kinds of development, and it doesn’t always come in character arcs. In any case there’s still room for Gengar to get its Mega or G-Max.
 
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There’s different kinds of development, and it doesn’t always come in character arcs. In any case there’s still room for Gengar to get its Mega or G-Max.
Less than one episode of development. Are you serious? And regarding the Gengar part, I won’t argue on hypotheticals.
 
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I think that if Ash were to catch Pokémon still capable of evolving in this series, they're probably going to be just one evolution away from being fully evolved.
 
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Less than one episode of development. Are you serious? And regarding the Gengar part, I won’t argue on hypotheticals.
What are you even arguing at this point? You said people don’t expect any development at all from them, I said some people do. How does “amount of development they’ve gotten so far” even matter? We can expect it no matter what. I’m not sure why what I said was so controversial lol. Do you not want any development moving forward?
 
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I think the reason that Dragonite and Gengar were caught fully evolved was mainly so Ash could have a couple of strong Pokemon ready and set for the PWC, but seeing how little those two have done since their capture especially with how rare PWC battles themselves have become, if anything it just kinda reinforces the idea that Ash should have just used his reserves.

However, a good compromise might have been if Dragonite and Gengar had been caught in their middle stages instead, that way they'd be strong enough to believably put up a good fight against tough PWC opponents (which would be especially believable in Dragonair's case, since pseudo-legendaries don't evolve early unless they're Ash's Goodra), but still have room to grow, and maybe then the writers wouldn't have so many excuses to not give them appearances...
Honestly, it makes me think that they should have just given Ash unevolved Pokemon from the start instead. Ash having new unevolved Pokemon would have helped his team to grow and develop. Even though fans complained with how much screentime Riolu got, I still think that was in part due to how it did have room to grow by virtue of being unevolved, along with Lucario being a really popular Pokemon. There isn't much to do with Dragonite and Gengar by comparison since they're fully evolved. They aren't unbeatable or perfect, but beyond learning some new moves or just have them battle, there isn't much for them to do. At the very least, I think that their options are more limited than if they were still unevolved. That's a big reason why previous series would usually wait until the end of their runs before giving the character fully evolved Pokemon.

Considering that how rare it is for Ash to battle against a tough PWC opponent, I don't think it was even necessary to give him fully evolved Pokemon from the start for this goal. He doesn't really need fully evolved Pokemon to beat the one-shot trainers with Pokemon like Tauros, Meganium and Elekid. It would have been more ideal, at least for me, for Ash to have a team of unevolved Pokemon, including some more Galar Pokemon, and we could see their progressions as Ash makes his way through the PWC. Granted, it would have also helped for the PWC to be more front and center instead of being mostly an afterthought given how the bulk of Ash's progress has been off-screen against one-shot trainers, but maybe having more Pokemon that were capable of evolving would have helped to give more focus to Ash's matches too.

While Ash using his reserves would have been neat too, I still have a hard time believing that they'll bring them back anytime soon.
 
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Even though fans complained with how much screentime Riolu got, I still think that was in part due to how it did have room to grow by virtue of being unevolved, along with Lucario being a really popular Pokemon.
To highlight this point even further, Lucario's screentime has diminished immensely since evolving, with its last major appearance being the battle against Mewtwo. Granted, it'll probably pick up again when the time to rematch Bea approaches, and Lucario has gotten a couple more bit parts than Gengar or Dragonite (what with it being chosen to fend off the poachers who were trying to capture Suicune despite Dragonite and Gengar arguably being better equipped for that job, seeing how Lucario's moveset of all Fighting moves was resisted by the Poison-type army), but it's still not appearing anywhere near as much now as when it was a Riolu.
 
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What are you even arguing at this point? You said people don’t expect any development at all from them, I said some people do. How does “amount of development they’ve gotten so far” even matter? We can expect it no matter what. I’m not sure why what I said was so controversial lol. Do you not want any development moving forward?
The thing is, I have personally stopped expecting development from the fully evolved members of the cast, since JN has shown us a definite trend of developing a Pokémon only when it wants to evolve. Gengar are probably the least developed Ash's Pokemon bar captures like Kingler, Muk and Palpitoad.

Seeing the current trend, I think I’m setting myself for disappointment if I expect any development for it. When did Gengar even appear last? What was the last notable thing it did? I’m already bracing myself for Dragonite not even appearing for 10+ episodes after the Iris one because that is what JN has set the expectations to.
 
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The thing is, I have personally stopped expecting development from the fully evolved members of the cast, since JN has shown us a definite trend of developing a Pokémon only when it wants to evolve. Gengar are probably the least developed Ash's Pokemon bar captures like Kingler, Muk and Palpitoad.

Seeing the current trend, I think I’m setting myself for disappointment if I expect any development for it. When did Gengar even appear last? What was the last notable thing it did? I’m already bracing myself for Dragonite not even appearing for 10+ episodes after the Iris one because that is what JN has set the expectations to.
To me, the fact that they haven’t had many appearances since their captures (actually, Dragonite has had quite a few though only one or two were significant), points to the possibility of seeing them more in the future. There’s plenty of upcoming battles and things I could see them being useful for. Though, I don’t personally subscribe to the pessimistic outlook some people have with JN as a whole, so maybe it’s easier for me to be hopeful.
 
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To me, the fact that they haven’t had many appearances since their captures (actually, Dragonite has had quite a few though only one or two were significant), points to the possibility of seeing them more in the future. There’s plenty of upcoming battles and things I could see them being useful for. Though, I don’t personally subscribe to the pessimistic outlook some people have with JN as a whole, so maybe it’s easier for me to be hopeful.
I personally saw a lot of potential in the series. I built up some reasonable hopes for it but they weren’t met (like some Pokémon getting the bare minimum of focus as compared to previous series), but they weren’t met. So I see no reason to build up overtly optimistic scenarios when JN has given no hint to ever act on them.

I don’t want to end up in a cycle of continuous disappointments. Looking at what JN has done now, we have passed a THIRD of the series and some Pokémon don’t have more than one or two appearances. One third is enough to form a trend. Battles maybe? But "development" as in character arcs is an expectation which has died in me in regards to Dragonite and Gengar. JN has clearly shown us that it only gives character arcs to Pokemon that can evolve- notice the suspicious disappearance of Lucario and Cinderace when they reached their final stage.
 
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I personally saw a lot of potential in the series. I built up some reasonable hopes for it but they weren’t met (like some Pokémon getting the bare minimum of focus as compared to previous series), but they weren’t met. So I see no reason to build up overtly optimistic scenarios when JN has given no hint to ever act on them.

I don’t want to end up in a cycle of continuous disappointments. Looking at what JN has done now, we have passed a THIRD of the series and some Pokémon don’t have more than one or two appearances. One third is enough to form a trend. Battles maybe? But "development" as in character arcs is an expectation which has died in me in regards to Dragonite and Gengar. JN has clearly shown us that it only gives character arcs to Pokemon that can evolve- notice the suspicious disappearance of Lucario and Cinderace when they reached their final stage.
I don’t find it overly optimistic to have wants and expectations for the series. If you’re still watching and participating in the section, then doesn’t that suggest that you do too? It’s not some kind of rule that they can’t get any focus once they’re fully evolved. Lucario and Cinderace did have an episode to themselves after reaching their final stages (yes, it was a while ago, but it still happened).
 
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I don’t find it overly optimistic to have wants and expectations for the series. If you’re still watching and participating in the section, then doesn’t that suggest that you do too? It’s not some kind of rule that they can’t get any focus once they’re fully evolved. Lucario and Cinderace did have an episode to themselves after reaching their final stages (yes, it was a while ago, but it still happened).
'a while ago, it still happened' is still several months ago. the fact that they have not appeared or interacted outside of that one obligatory checklist episode shows how bad the planning of this series is

maybe there's no written rule, but the way the staff has handled the series doesn't leave much room for optimism. it only results in objective disappointment deep down inside time and time again, no matter how much you try to hide it with even more optimism.
 
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It’s not some kind of rule that they can’t get any focus once they’re fully evolved. Lucario and Cinderace did have an episode to themselves after reaching their final stages (yes, it was a while ago, but it still happened).
Can you point out where I implied that it’s a written rule? I called it a trend. The trend might break, but I won’t be calling it a broken trend till we get more than one episode worth of dedicated focus for Pokémon like Gengar.
I don’t find it overly optimistic to have wants and expectations for the series.
At this point I’m tired of having hopes and wants, having them destroyed and then being told that technically we got some semblance of focus and it was unreasonable to expect what I was expecting. Yes technically we got farfetch’d focus, but did it even appear outside of its cookie cuter episodes? No. Where is Lucario after it evolved? Dracovish has taken more than 10 episodes to even be acknowledged. Let this sink in.

This continuous cycle gets rather draining, and I'd rather expect noting and then get surprised. I’m sorry, I will not pretend that there is focus for these Pokémon upcoming till I see factual proof and well done focus. I can and will appreciate the series when it does that.

I HAVE praised Journeys on what it deserves praise on before, my detailed reviews of some of the earlier episodes are a testament to that. But right now I don’t see any point in keeping expectations. Gengar focus? Nothing indicating that, we're literally getting episodes about random Sakuragi institute Pokémon before we'll get one for it. Dynamax? When was even the last time it was acknowledged? When was the last time Ash attempted to use it? He’s never even shown the desire to use it on any of his other Pokémon till now.

I've learnt from the initial JN marketing and by the way the series has progressed that these are definite trends. Yes, they are not absolute, but nothing in Journeys formula suggests that Pokémon that are fully, evolved are due for any character arcs or beefier development.
 
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'a while ago, it still happened' is still several months ago. the fact that they have not appeared or interacted outside of that one obligatory checklist episode shows how bad the planning of this series is
It still happened though. If it hadn’t, the complaints would be even worse. You can call it an “obligatory checklist episode”, but that doesn’t mean we won’t see any more of the two.

maybe there's no written rule, but the way the staff has handled the series doesn't leave much room for optimism. it only results in objective disappointment deep down inside time and time again, no matter how much you try to hide it with even more optimism.
There’s no such thing as “objective disappointment”. People have different expectations and are thus disappointed by different things. I’m allowed to want things to happen just like you’re allowed to think they won’t.
 
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It still happened though. If it hadn’t, the complaints would be even worse. You can call it an “obligatory checklist episode”, but that doesn’t mean we won’t see any more of the two.
Can you tell me if there is any factual confirmation that we'll see anything solid character wise from Lucario I’m the upcoming episodes?
In my opinion it’s a disgrace that we are at a point in the Pokemon anime where we have to be grateful to see Ash's Pokemon get even a single acknowledgement in 10+ episodes. It severely hinders the enjoyment of the series for me, and many other fans.

The fact that there is no more than one, singular focus episode when so many have passed, while the series has been rife with filler is a testimony to this point. A kind reminder that one episode of focus is the literal bare mimimim the anime can do, excluding half episodes.
 
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Can you point out where I implied that it’s a written rule? I called it a trend. The trend might break, but I won’t be calling it a broken trend till we get more than one episode worth of dedicated focus for Pokémon like Gengar.
I didn’t say you did. I was simply stating why there’s still a possibility that they could get development.
At this point I’m tired of having hopes and wants, having them destroyed and then being told that technically we got some semblance of focus and it was unreasonable to expect what I was expecting. Yes technically we got farfetch’d focus, but did it even appear outside of its cookie cuter episodes? No. Where is Lucario after it evolved? Dracovish has taken more than 10 episodes to even be acknowledged. Let this sink in.
This continuous cycle gets rather draining, and I'd rather expect noting and then get surprised.

I HAVE praised Journeys on what it deserves praise on before, my detailed reviews of some of the earlier episodes are a testament to that. But right now I don’t see any point in keeping expectations. Gengar focus? Nothing indicating that, we're literally getting episodes about random Sakuragi institute Pokémon before we'll get one for it. Dynamax? When was even the last time it was acknowledged? When was the last time Ash attempted to use it? He’s never even shown the desire to use it on any of his other Pokémon till now.

I've learnt from the initial JN marketing and by the way the series has progressed that these are definite trends. Yes, they are not absolute, but nothing in Journeys formula suggests that Pokémon that are fully, evolved are due for any character arcs or beefier development.
I don’t really have anything else to say to this other than, we’re both entitled to have our own expectations for the series. It not invalid to have a bleak outlook, I just don’t feel the same.

Can you tell me if there is any factual confirmation that we'll see anything solid character wise from Lucario I’m the upcoming episodes?
Can you tell me if there is any factual confirmation that we never will? Of course not. We are both making conjecture; let’s not pretend that either of our predictions are “factual”.
 
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I just think they got away with not doing much with Dragonite and Gengar for a little bit – in a way they wouldn’t have been able to do if Ash caught Dratini and Gastly.

Sirfetch’d has had three focus episodes, and they are all in service of the evolution.

Lucario has had (I’d argue) 6 with only 1 being after the evolution, and with it only taking 20 episodes Riolu focus was all about gearing up for that evolution.

Where as Dragonite and Gengar have only had their capture episodes devoted to them (and I guess Gengar had a pre-capture episode) they’ve also had a couple bottles each, but no big episode devoted to them.

Compare Ash’s Pokémon in Journeys to past series 62 episodes in...
 
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Can you tell me if there is any factual confirmation that we never will? Of course not. We are both making conjecture; let’s not pretend that either of our predictions are “factual”.
I mean, mine is based on a definite trend the series has shown for a third of its assumed airing duration, and it’s impossible to prove negatives.

I cannot get over the fact that they gave the literal smallest unit amount of focus they could to some Pokémon (and not even that to Dracovish so far), and around a third into the series duration it starts to impact enjoyment for a lot of fans.

I don’t think it’s hard to understand why people are not exactly jumping for joy when the protagonist's Pokemon cannot appear for 20+ episodes at a time.

I don’t think it’s really fruitful to continue this discussion any further since it’s getting exhausting at this point.
Journeys is a series that probably has the most potential out of any other, but at the rate it’s going, some corner of me hopes it’ll surprise me, but this is the first time I’ve felt so detached to a series, and quite frankly it’s in a sorry state imo. In my personal opinion even Black and White is better than JN when it comes to handling the main cast.
 
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It still happened though. If it hadn’t, the complaints would be even worse. You can call it an “obligatory checklist episode”, but that doesn’t mean we won’t see any more of the two.
if it hasn't happened, then it hasn't happened

so far, the track record shows that the final stage Pokemon getting a core focus episode is a rare chance. just look at Lucario so far (if Dragonite and Gengar weren't proof enough)
There’s no such thing as “objective disappointment”. People have different expectations and are thus disappointed by different things. I’m allowed to want things to happen just like you’re allowed to think they won’t.
you can like this series all you want. but you cannot deny that it is one unplanned mess and the writers are just making things up as they go with no proper plan, and with that lack of planning comes all the issues we see now.

just compare 62 episodes of this series to any one from the past. this series is inferior, even compared to BW which for all its faults, still followed a proper blueprint
 
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