Pokemon Game in 2017

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Those areas have nothing in common with each other, geographically, culturally, or otherwise, that they don't have in common with the rest of the region. And in fact, Kiloude is pretty different geographically from the rest of Kalos, it's a lot more tropical than anywhere else in the region. So that can't logically be what they're referring to with Southern Kalos.

Also, the mountain range is just filler landscape, they can easily retcon that. And if they need justification for getting rid of a giant mountain range, Volcanion is stated to be able to destroy mountains.

Your problem is that you're adding a capital "S" to southern when it's not meant to be capitalized. You want to see a tropical subregion called Southern Kalos, but the only two times that southern Kalos is mentioned in the games is with a lowercase "s" - as in, the part of Kalos that is to the south. Like, the "southern Kalos" in the game is equivalent to southern California* (where someone refers to a part of a large region using a geographical designation to provide clarity) whereas you're looking for something akin to South Dakota (an entirely different region that is immediately adjacent to the south)

*admittedly most Californians, including myself, say Southern California or SoCal with a capital S, but that's just because we're self-centered egomaniacs who know we're better than those NorCal fools

 

[Esserise]

Those areas have nothing in common with each other, geographically, culturally, or otherwise, that they don't have in common with the rest of the region.

One could say much the same about Mountain Kalos and its constituent towns - Laverre, Dendemille, Anistar, Couriway, and Snowbelle.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Your problem is that you're adding a capital "S" to southern when it's not meant to be capitalized. You want to see a tropical subregion called Southern Kalos, but the only two times that southern Kalos is mentioned in the games is with a lowercase "s" - as in, the part of Kalos that is to the south. Like, the "southern Kalos" in the game is equivalent to southern California* (where someone refers to a part of a large region using a geographical designation to provide clarity) whereas you're looking for something akin to South Dakota (an entirely different region that is immediately adjacent to the south)

*admittedly most Californians, including myself, say Southern California or SoCal with a capital S, but that's just because we're self-centered egomaniacs who know we're better than those NorCal fools

One could say much the same about Mountain Kalos and its constituent towns - Laverre, Dendemille, Anistar, Couriway, and Snowbelle.

Neither really makes sense though. Even in the case of southern California that's still a logical subdivision of the state, it's dividing the state into a group of connected or associated areas. There's no logical region to refer to the part of Kalos that's to the south because again, they're all disjointed and have little in common. At least with Mountain Kalos it makes sense to lump them together, they're all a part of the same loop of areas and they are at least vaguely hilly. But for Vaniville, Aquacorde, Ambrette, and Kiloude, they're all disconnected with each other and have wildly different climates. There's no real reason to lump those areas together. This is like talking about the southern part of the world and referring to South Africa, Chile, and Australia specifically, yeah they're all to the south but that doesn't really say much because they're all drastically different places that aren't anywhere near each other. You would never group places together in that way.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Neither really makes sense though. Even in the case of southern California that's still a logical subdivision of the state, it's dividing the state into a group of connected or associated areas. There's no logical region to refer to the part of Kalos that's to the south because again, they're all disjointed and have little in common. At least with Mountain Kalos it makes sense to lump them together, they're all a part of the same loop of areas and they are at least vaguely hilly. But for Vaniville, Aquacorde, Ambrette, and Kiloude, they're all disconnected with each other and have wildly different climates. There's no real reason to lump those areas together. This is like talking about the southern part of the world and referring to South Africa, Chile, and Australia specifically, yeah they're all to the south but that doesn't really say much because they're all drastically different places that aren't anywhere near each other. You would never group places together in that way.

I agree that it might not necessarily make sense, but the fact of the matter is that the "s" is never capitalized - the game literally NEVER refers to a place called "Southern Kalos". They say "southern Kalosian life" - which might refer to temperature/climate for all we know, since Ambrette is a beach, Kiloude seems tropical, etc - and the other reference literally says "the southern parts of the Kalos region" which quite literally has NO possible way to mean anything than "the parts of Kalos that are geographically the furthest south"

 

[Esserise]

Neither really makes sense though. Even in the case of southern California that's still a logical subdivision of the state, it's dividing the state into a group of connected or associated areas. There's no logical region to refer to the part of Kalos that's to the south because again, they're all disjointed and have little in common. At least with Mountain Kalos it makes sense to lump them together, they're all a part of the same loop of areas and they are at least vaguely hilly. But for Vaniville, Aquacorde, Ambrette, and Kiloude, they're all disconnected with each other and have wildly different climates. There's no real reason to lump those areas together. This is like talking about the southern part of the world and referring to South Africa, Chile, and Australia specifically, yeah they're all to the south but that doesn't really say much because they're all drastically different places that aren't anywhere near each other. You would never group places together in that way.

To start with, I reiterate that these are two fairly obscure bits of text. One is locked behind a Mythical Pokémon (and it's not as if the game itself ever tells you, "Hey, be sure to take your Volcanion to the Lumiose Press office of all places, and read the memos on the desk!"), and the other is flavor text for the Town Map. There's not really a pressing need for it to be totally, 100% logically consistent with the physical gameplay - just like how the Volcanion text in ORAS mentions a desert island in the Johto region when, as far as we've seen, no such thing exists. Or - since we're on the topic of Mythicals - like when Prof. Oak mentions the discovery of another large white rock in Kanto during the Shaymin event in Platinum, and yet, come HGSS, no white rock! And unlike with XY, there actually was post-Platinum game that featured the Kanto region in which they could have shown that white rock!

But anyway, from the perspective of, say, somebody living in Laverre, there'd be plenty of reason to lump the likes of Vaniville, Aquacorde, and Kiloude together - those are three towns that are all located much further south and are relatively close together:

They're roughly as close together as Anistar, Couriway, and Snowbelle, which themselves are all fairly dissimilar. Vaniville, Aquacorde, and Kiloude are also distinctly more southerly and tucked away than anywhere else in the region, bar the Pokémon Village (which isn't known to many people).

Ultimately, it's pretty clear that they weren't "hinting" toward anything anyway, so the fact is that you really are just reading what you want into what is actually just inconsequential flavor text.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I agree that it might not necessarily make sense, but the fact of the matter is that the "s" is never capitalized - the game literally NEVER refers to a place called "Southern Kalos". They say "southern Kalosian life" - which might refer to temperature/climate for all we know, since Ambrette is a beach, Kiloude seems tropical, etc - and the other reference literally says "the southern parts of the Kalos region" which quite literally has NO possible way to mean anything than "the parts of Kalos that are geographically the furthest south"

Not really, the references to southern Kalos have a specific cultural implication, alongside of the blurb of Kiloude being an example of southern Kalos life, the event with Volcanion states that southern Kalos revere it as a nation builder. So there's more going on here than just a geographic designation.

But anyway, from the perspective of, say, somebody living in Laverre, there'd be plenty of reason to lump the likes of Vaniville, Aquacorde, and Kiloude together - those are three towns that are all located much further south and are relatively close together:

They're roughly as close together as Anistar, Couriway, and Snowbelle, which themselves are all fairly dissimilar. Vaniville, Aquacorde, and Kiloude are also distinctly more southerly and tucked away than anywhere else in the region, bar the Pokémon Village (which isn't known to many people).

Not really. Someone living in Laverre is unlikely to know as much about areas they live further away from, they're going to be more likely to associate areas based on their regional subdivision and they're not going to know how far the areas actually are from each other. As far as they would know, Ambrette Town is part of Coastal Kalos because it's connected to Rt. 8 and Cyllage City, Vaniville and Aquacorde are Central Kalos because they're near Santalune City, and Kiloude City is removed from pretty much everything else. It's not just about them being close together. It's about how the region can be classified, both geographically and culturally. And it doesn't make sense to classify areas that are totally disconnected from each other.

 

[Esserise]

Not really. Someone living in Laverre is unlikely to know as much about areas they live further away from, they're going to be more likely to associate areas based on their regional subdivision and they're not going to know how far the areas actually are from each other.

Someone from Laverre has probably seen a map of their region before. I know that Texas and Georgia aren't right next to each other, but I'd still call them similar examples of southern U.S. lifestyle. And of course those are right next to Louisiana and Florida, which are not only geographically quite different from each other, but also from the two aforementioned states (and within that, Louisiana's culture is fairly distinct from Texas's and from Florida's and so on).

As far as they would know, Ambrette Town is part of Coastal Kalos because it's connected to Rt. 8 and Cyllage City, Vaniville and Aquacorde are Central Kalos because they're near Santalune City, and Kiloude City is removed from pretty much everything else.It's not just about them being close together. It's about how the region can be classified, both geographically and culturally. And it doesn't make sense to classify areas that are totally disconnected from each other.

Mind you, I didn't use Ambrette as an example. That was somebody else. I'm talking specifically about Vaniville, Aquacorde, and Kiloude.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Someone from Laverre has probably seen a map of their region before. I know that Texas and Georgia aren't right next to each other, but I'd still call them similar examples of southern U.S. lifestyle. And of course those are right next to Louisiana and Florida, which are not only geographically quite different from each other, but also from the two aforementioned states (and within that, Louisiana's culture is fairly distinct from Texas's and from Florida's and so on).

Being near each other doesn't necessarily mean anything. Ohio and Kentucky are right next to each other and they're considered part of different regions of the country. And in Pokemon regions, that means even less when said areas aren't connected. The subdivisions of the region are meant to be clear boundaries that group together similar areas. Think about it, from both a game design standpoint and a realistic standpoint, if those areas were meant to be considered part of the same area, why aren't they all connected? Why is Kiloude completely isolated from the rest of the region? Because those areas weren't meant to be associated.

 

[Esserise]

Think about it, from both a game design standpoint and a realistic standpoint, if those areas were meant to be considered part of the same area, why aren't they all connected? Why is Kiloude completely isolated from the rest of the region? Because those areas weren't meant to be associated.

That's a solid point.

But then, we weren't ever meant to be putting the kind of emphasis on "(S)outhern Kalos" that you are anyway. Kiloude's pretty clearly supposed to be a one-off hick town where people go to relax and participate in battle competitions. It is, essentially, meant to be a landlocked version of Ruby/Sapphire's Battle Tower island. And it gets a dash of flavor text to make that clear, but that's all that flavor text is there to do: to outline Kiloude as a rural resort spot for the post-game, not a gateway to a future game set in a tropical land of Volcanion worshipers.

 

[Bolt Strike]

That's a solid point.

But then, we weren't ever meant to be putting the kind of emphasis on "(S)outhern Kalos" that you are anyway. Kiloude's pretty clearly supposed to be a one-off hick town where people go to relax and participate in battle competitions. It is, essentially, meant to be a landlocked version of Ruby/Sapphire's Battle Tower island. And it gets a dash of flavor text to make that clear, but that's all that flavor text is there to do: to outline Kiloude as a rural resort spot for the post-game, not a gateway to a future game set in a tropical land of Volcanion worshipers.

Not really. There's plenty of open space on the bottom of the map and there's so much of real world France that went unrepresented. It makes total sense for them to expand the region to the south and there's evidence that was pointing towards that direction beyond just the flavor text.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Not really. There's plenty of open space on the bottom of the map and there's so much of real world France that went unrepresented. It makes total sense for them to expand the region to the south and there's evidence that was pointing towards that direction beyond just the flavor text.

Such as...? What pointed to southern Kalos beyond those two references?

 

[Kisu]

I think the biggest sign of a Kanto remake/sequel is the fact that the movie of 17 seems to be set there,that either indicates a Kanto game or a year with no main series game.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[Bolt Strike]

Such as...? What pointed to southern Kalos beyond those two references?

The vacancy at the bottom of the map, the lack of areas based on the southern half of France, the clouds at the bottom of the initial map.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

The vacancy at the bottom of the map, the lack of areas based on the southern half of France, the clouds at the bottom of the initial map.

Spoiler

I suppose we should be expecting South Central Sinnoh in DP remakes, then, if mountains count as vacant space

 

[Esserise]

Not really. There's plenty of open space on the bottom of the map and there's so much of real world France that went unrepresented. It makes total sense for them to expand the region to the south and there's evidence that was pointing towards that direction beyond just the flavor text.

Just because it something is logically plausible doesn't mean it's necessarily going to get done.

Just because there are mountains on the bottom of the map that could potentially be replaced doesn't mean they were ever going to be.

They were never going to "southern Kalos."

There's only one future region that was being foreshadowed in XY - Alola. Via a much more direct message from an NPC outright telling us we'd be going there.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Spoiler

I suppose we should be expecting South Central Sinnoh in DP remakes, then, if mountains count as vacant space

You're getting too hung up on the vacant space. It's not just that, it's the sum of all of that evidence that points towards Southern Kalos. Yes, DP has empty space there and personally I would like to see new areas there in a future visit to Sinnoh, but there was never any hint of anything in those areas.

Just because it something is logically plausible doesn't mean it's necessarily going to get done.

Just because there are mountains on the bottom of the map that could potentially be replaced doesn't mean they were ever going to be.

They were never going to "southern Kalos."

There's only one future region that was being foreshadowed in XY - Alola. Via a much more direct message from an NPC outright telling us we'd be going there.

Well if they don't want people expecting more content they shouldn't make the region look bigger than it actually is. If you do things like reference bizarre designations of the region or create areas that have no purpose in the game it makes it look like they're holding something back. Don't make the region look like it's missing areas, don't reference places that we won't be able to visit, don't put in doors or any other interactable objects that look like they can be used, don't put in landmarks that have no purpose. These are the kinds of things that make a region look incomplete.

 

[Esserise]

Well if they don't want people expecting more content they shouldn't make the region look bigger than it actually is.

But was it actually as much of a problem as you're making it out to be? I don't think very many people overall were expecting Southern Kalos specifically. Even if they were, the fact that there wasn't does not seem to have resulted in any particular kind of problem on Game Freak's end.

But at any rate, I can admit that I do think they put an oddly high quantity of "concealing clouds" on the prerelease map.

 

[Bolt Strike]

But was it actually as much of a problem as you're making it out to be? I don't think very many people overall were expecting Southern Kalos specifically. Even if they were, the fact that there wasn't does not seem to have resulted in any particular kind of problem on Game Freak's end.

But at any rate, I can admit that I do think they put an oddly high quantity of "concealing clouds" on the prerelease map.

Yes it was, or at least to the fanbase. XY was a huge disappointment in terms of content, with the region being too small and linear and having almost nothing to do beyond the main story. They might not have specifically been expecting Southern Kalos no, but they were likely expecting a BW2 style expansion of the region.

 

[Esserise]

Yes it was, or at least to the fanbase. XY was a huge disappointment in terms of content, with the region being too small and linear and having almost nothing to do beyond the main story. They might not have specifically been expecting Southern Kalos no, but they were likely expecting a BW2 style expansion of the region.

But "disappointed" or not, nothing has really happened to indicate to Game Freak that there was a problem with their one-shot approach to XY. Those games were critical/commercial successes, the next games were critical/commercial successes, the games after that were...

Certainly, some of the negative feedback could inform their creative decisions for later games, but I doubt they're going to take any of that as a signal that "just for the sake of it" third versions are a hot ticket.

 

[Silktree]

Is Kalos even smaller than Alola? There are silly clouds on the Alola map, too.

I think the biggest sign of a Kanto remake/sequel is the fact that the movie of 17 seems to be set there,that either indicates a Kanto game or a year with no main series game.

Since I expect the 2018 movie to be about Kanto and Mew, they could wait until then to capitalize on the Kanto movies.

The anime itself can promote Stars next year if the rumor is to be believed. Just showcasing any new Alolan forms would do the trick.