Pokémon Horizons General Discussion/Speculation Thread

[TheMindOfThomas]

I feel OLM has started with a clean slate in Horizons. While that doesn’t prove whether or not Horizons takes place in the same universe of timeline with Ash, I feel any character Ash traveled with might not be the same person. Who knows but so far I’m not convinced Ash is even alive in Horizons.

The clean slate you're talking about simply comes from the fact the story isn't focusing on Ash anymore. That doesn't mean he or any of his friends don't still exist somewhere lol. The Pokémon world is big enough that they can set multiple stories in the same universe/timeline, while not having too many big connections between them.

In the same way, I also feel that most of the characters Ash interacted with are bigger than just their connection to him. They have their own lives and adventures separate from him, and they wouldn't need to retcon them into entirely different characters just to have them interact with the Horizons cast. Doing so would be horrible writing and cheapen the value of the characters themselves.

Who knows but so far I’m not convinced Ash is even alive in Horizons.

Also, on a side note, why would they make a universe where their flagship character of 26 years no longer exists? From an IP standpoint that's just dumb and would only hurt them going forward when they inevitably bring him back for an anniversary event or something down the line.

This just reminds me of the times when people swore up and down that Sun and Moon was in a different continuity just because they changed the art style, with no other evidence to back their claims. And eventually, they were proven wrong.

 

[Mew2]

I feel OLM has started with a clean slate in Horizons. While that doesn’t prove whether or not Horizons takes place in the same universe of timeline with Ash, I feel any character Ash traveled with might not be the same person. Who knows but so far I’m not convinced Ash is even alive in Horizons.

There is the possibility that this could take place in the AU seen in movies starting with I Choose You. It's similar enough to the main animé that it would be difficult to tell the two apart unless one of his traveling companions (i.e. Serena) did something different for their goal compared to their main animé counterpart; such as Serena being a battler either for the Kalos League, Battle Chateau, a Sky Battler competition, etcetera, rather than a performer and potential idol like she was in the main animé, things that were never in the Kalos games. If that happened, they could do anything they wanted with the characters that traveled with Ash since the ending credits indicate that he at least met with them during his journey.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

This just reminds me of the times when people swore up and down that Sun and Moon was in a different continuity just because they changed the art style, with no other evidence to back their claims. And eventually, they were proven wrong.

But if you look at how mature Ash was in Kalos and much less mature he was in Alola plus 90% of journeys, I feel SM & JN were in a different timeline from XYZ. Plus Ash looked noticeably younger in both SM & JN while in XY/Z he looked like he was 16-17 instead of 10. I find it hard to believe Ash would be world champion at 11-12. At 18-19 that’s more believable.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

There is the possibility that this could take place in the AU seen in movies starting with I Choose You. It's similar enough to the main animé that it would be difficult to tell the two apart unless one of his traveling companions (i.e. Serena) did something different for their goal compared to their main animé counterpart; such as Serena being a battler either for the Kalos League, Battle Chateau, a Sky Battler competition, etcetera, rather than a performer and potential idol like she was in the main animé, things that were never in the Kalos games. If that happened, they could do anything they wanted with the characters that traveled with Ash since the ending credits indicate that he at least met with them during his journey.

That’s what I’m getting at. I feel we may see Serena return but it won’t be the same Serena that traveled with Ash. It might be more akin to either her game or manga counterpart.

 

[Articfoxgamez]

There's plenty of ways to promote Kalos and avoid previous characters, plus we don't know what new characters ZA will introduce.

I mean... depends honestly
ZA characters would require time travel unless the game ends up being set modern day

As for avoiding previous characters... sorta? Depends on if they can do enough with
Dexio, Sina, AZ, Emma. Those are the only for XY characters who didnr show up in the anime as far as I know (also the... battle facility girls I guess??)

Of course theres always the show no game characters approach

 

[TheMindOfThomas]

But if you look at how mature Ash was in Kalos and much less mature he was in Alola plus 90% of journeys, I feel SM & JN were in a different timeline from XYZ. Plus Ash looked noticeably younger in both SM & JN while in XY/Z he looked like he was 16-17 instead of 10. I find it hard to believe Ash would be world champion at 11-12. At 18-19 that’s more believable.

You’re entitled to your headcanons but that’s all they are. XY, Sun and Moon, and Journeys are all officially and irrefutably in the same timeline. The feel of Ash’s character did fluctuate due to writing changes, but nothing about the continuity was changed. In fact, Journeys went out of its way to openly celebrate the past.

Holding onto this belief only makes your claim about Horizon’s dissonance from the timeline look even more delusional. So far we have no evidence to prove it’s not the same universe as every other series. So why should our first assumption be that they would retcon everything for no reason, when they didn’t even do it at more convenient opportunities - such as when they wanted to adjust aspects of Ash’s character.

There is the possibility that this could take place in the AU seen in movies starting with I Choose You. It's similar enough to the main animé that it would be difficult to tell the two apart unless one of his traveling companions (i.e. Serena) did something different for their goal compared to their main animé counterpart; such as Serena being a battler either for the Kalos League, Battle Chateau, a Sky Battler competition, etcetera, rather than a performer and potential idol like she was in the main animé, things that were never in the Kalos games. If that happened, they could do anything they wanted with the characters that traveled with Ash since the ending credits indicate that he at least met with them during his journey.

Let’s assume they did go this route and set Horizons firmly in the I Choose You universe.

Most characters who originated from the games such as Gym Leaders (Clemont, Misty, Cilan, etc.) would have little to no changes anyways since they would be doing the same thing with or without their history with Ash. So you’d be changing nothing about them except removing one part of their history that would be insignificant to the Horizons cast to begin with. It accomplishes nothing here.

For the blank slate characters who could fluctuate more, like May, Dawn, and Serena, you’d essentially just be writing brand new characters wearing the same skin as older characters people recognize. Why would they risk upsetting fans of the previous iteration of the character when they could use someone brand new to serve the same purpose? Why would they risk confusing audiences who expect one thing only to get another in return? It’s a road that will only lead to backlash.

Then for Ash himself, if they ever want to bring him back for a cameo, they’re left with a version of him that has been on an entirely different journey, accomplished none of his main universe feats, and that significantly less people actually care about. It would just leave people feeling disappointed.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

For the blank slate characters who could fluctuate more, like May, Dawn, and Serena, you’d essentially just be writing brand new characters wearing the same skin as older characters people recognize. Why would they risk upsetting fans of the previous iteration of the character when they could use someone brand new to serve the same purpose? Why would they risk confusing audiences who expect one thing only to get another in return? It’s a road that will only lead to backlash.

They could base those characters off the manga counterparts. However, my thinking was May now is a police officer, Dawn used to do contests but doesn’t anymore and tutors young coordinators, Serena is now a renowned actress.

 

[SatoSerefan5229]

for a cameo, they’re left with a version of him that has been on an entirely different journey, accomplished none of his main universe feats, and that significantly less people actually care about. It would just leave people feeling disappointed

I think if Ash was to return in Horizons, he needs to be at least 20 years old, basically an adult. He’s still the best and greatest trainer in the world. He’s even beaten both Nemona and Geeta many times.

 

[Nicolas721]

I have a question about the series, has it been stated in which region have the episodes since Diana left taken place? Is it Paldea, an unnamed region or a series of unnamed islands? Thanks!

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Unspecific "Somewhere" I belive, the Palafin episode the first one explicity set in a reigon since they left galar after episode 29.

 

[Stef50S]

I'm pretty sure that the anime has been taking place in Paldea even since Diana left. It's been mentioned in the intros that they went back to Paldea to look for the rest of Lucius' Pokemon. Plus, the desert and Pokemon featured in the last few episodes make the Paldea connection even more obvious.

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Except they have been seen in the sky multiple times implying travel. Plus we've been seeing a bunch of pokemon not avalible in the reigon, usually the anime is pretty good at not doing that, even when they are owned by a trainer.

 

[Eitarou]

I'm pretty sure that the anime has been taking place in Paldea even since Diana left. It's been mentioned in the intros that they went back to Paldea to look for the rest of Lucius' Pokemon. Plus, the desert and Pokemon featured in the last few episodes make the Paldea connection even more obvious.

No, it says they’re “heading” to Paldea; present tense. Can’t be heading towards someplace if you’re already there.

Also, Pokémon aren’t exclusive to the region they debuted in. You can literally find Paldea mons outside of it in the DLC areas.

 

[SamurottMan]

It's a strange choice, because all the previous episodes could've been in Paldea and still make sense. I guess it's just HZ being realistic with traveling instead of region-hopping.

 

[Eitarou]

They're going to Paldea for a specific purpose. I think the idea is "we don't want to burn through the plot too quickly, but we can't have them faff about in Paldea doing whatever" so they set it in an unspecified area.

 

[Stef50S]

That's a fair point. I must have assumed that when the intro mentions heading to Paldea it means that they are in Paldea when the episode begins. Plus, when I saw that desert in the Krookodile and Sprigatito episodes my mind immediately went to the Asado Desert in Scarlet and Violet.
You could potentially make the argument that the crew are in Paldea to do some jobs and make money while flying around to different areas of the region. That is, until some progress is made in their hunt for the rest of Lucius' Pokemon and thus the story would pick up. Regardless, the anime would make it clear what the current location is if it has some relevance to the story and what's happening.

 

[Eclipsical]

I wonder if we are actually gonna go to every region. We've only really been to Galar and Paldea (after being in Kanto for the beginning). We're in the 40s now and back to Paldea. Entei is presumably in Johto and Kleavor is presumably in Sinnoh. Rayquaza just goes wherever it pleases but they could tie it to Hoenn if they chose to.

That still leaves Alola and Unova as kind of off-course from their whole adventure.

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Not impossible they visit the Blueberry academy at some point which would be Unova covered, Alola however I've got nothing.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

Not impossible they visit the Blueberry academy at some point which would be Unova covered, Alola however I've got nothing.

I think Alola is the nicest way they could keep their ambiguity on whether or not this is the same continuity as the original. Just have them stumble into an Ultra Wormhole and come out meeting Ash on the other end. We know the wormholes connect multiple dimensions. If they are in the same continuity, great, then Ash can just run into them the moment he gets another appearance. If they aren’t, then we have a nice way to meet up with him down the line.

But if you look at how mature Ash was in Kalos and much less mature he was in Alola plus 90% of journeys, I feel SM & JN were in a different timeline from XYZ. Plus Ash looked noticeably younger in both SM & JN while in XY/Z he looked like he was 16-17 instead of 10. I find it hard to believe Ash would be world champion at 11-12. At 18-19 that’s more believable.

What you feel is not reality. What is reality is that XY, SM, and JN are all in the same continuity. Writers doing artistic shifts does not mean the continuity is scrapped completely.

Just think about how you approach this continuity for one second. Why would the creators go through the trouble of going into a completely new timeline, not inform the audience about said timeline change, only to do this the second episode of JN? That’s confusing and redundant at the same time.

Spoiler

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Huh, was checking Bulbapedia and apperently we have the english names of all the explorers now, guess the dub got to that point.
Anyways... I get why Onyx was renamed (Because of Onix) but why did they rename Agate to Chalce i'm very lost