Pokemon Journeys: Thoughts So Far

[swiftgallade46]

That is exactly what I address in the below paragraphs. Pretending that a Pokémon doesn’t exist and then giving it a few focus episodes gives more of a "Hey, we gave it focus, are you happy now?" rather than genuine development. It’s incredibly forced and annoying for me. We got Farfetch'd focus episodes, but where was it when it didn’t even appear in so many episodes before and after that. Why are we going through so many stretches where Ash's Pokemon don’t even appear once? Where are the team dynamics? Where’s the entire team interacting with each other?


I don’t like how Ash's Pokemon are borderline non existent and suddenly become relevant when they need to get their mandated focus episode or evolve.

I guess, to me, the focus episodes are obligatory anyway so rather than taking it as a “are you happy now?” moment, I just take the episode for face value just as I would have done if it had aired immediately after the capture episode. So the stretches in between don’t really bother me as much.

I do miss the team dynamics aspect from previous series, yeah. Having them interact with each other was always something I liked to see. Hopefully we’ll get more of it in the future.

 

[nickdt]

If only they didn't make Goh entire goal revolve around catching ever Pokemon then the whole Goh debate wouldn't happen.

Gohs capture goal isn't bad perse, the reasoning is bad.

If they would have made it so Goh wants to catch every Pokemon because he wants to study them because he wants to be a researcher, i think people would have less issues with his goal.

 

[Greninjaman]

Gohs capture goal isn't bad perse, the reasoning is bad.

If they would have made it so Goh wants to catch every Pokemon because he wants to study them because he wants to be a researcher, i think people would have less issues with his goal.

Yeah. How would catching all the Pokemon allow him to get Mew. Like, does he really expect it to be like: Hi! I saw that you got all the Pokemon, so here I am!

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Gohs capture goal isn't bad perse, the reasoning is bad.

If they would have made it so Goh wants to catch every Pokemon because he wants to study them because he wants to be a researcher, i think people would have less issues with his goal.

And if he didn't do it so easily, people wouldn't have such a huge issue. If they were explicitly stated to be for research purposes to study and understand all Pokemon and he was catching them for Professor Cerise, less people would have an issue if they showed that they were tied to a goal of Goh wanting to be a researcher. I don't think these captures would feel as pointless if this was the case. I mean didn't Ash and Goh join for that purpose? Helping with research?

 

[swiftgallade46]

If they were explicitly stated to be for research purposes to study and understand all Pokemon[...]

Genuine question, but wasn’t this half of the reason given in the Mewtwo episode? That he wants to research them all and learn more about them before he catches Mew?

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Genuine question, but wasn’t this half of the reason given in the Mewtwo episode? That he wants to research them all and learn more about them before he catches Mew?

He never said anything about research and this is about how catching every Pokemon will get him Mew. It was a shallow reason. If it was more about the research, maybe it might make more sense rather than oh its gonna help me get Mew. Then again he should be studying Mew and the lore more if he wants to understand Mew.

 

[DarkraiKnight]

Genuine question, but wasn’t this half of the reason given in the Mewtwo episode? That he wants to research them all and learn more about them before he catches Mew?

Unfortunately, even though everyone knows this, no one cares and just goes on ignoring it anyways.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Genuine question, but wasn’t this half of the reason given in the Mewtwo episode? That he wants to research them all and learn more about them before he catches Mew?

The problem with that is that, while they may have expressed the prospect, it comes across as a “tell don’t show” kind of deal which in turn causes the statement to ring hollow. And while people may say he does that offscreen, that’s exactly the problem there; there is so little actual emotional impact towards that because the writers are so focused on quantity over quality that the quality aspect of coming to understand your Pokémon is all but skimmed over with Go except for a select few.

 

[swiftgallade46]

He never said anything about research and this is about how catching every Pokemon will get him Mew. It was a shallow reason. If it was more about the research, maybe it might make more sense rather than oh its gonna help me get Mew. Then again he should be studying Mew and the lore more if he wants to understand Mew.

I went back and looked. What he says is that he wants to learn all about them once he catches them and that since Mew contains all of their DNA, understanding them will help him understand Mew. That doesn’t sound particularly shallow to me, honestly.

The problem with that is that, while they may have expressed the prospect, it comes across as a “tell don’t show” kind of deal which in turn causes the statement to ring hollow. And while people may say he does that offscreen, that’s exactly the problem there; there is so little actual emotional impact towards that because the writers are so focused on quantity over quality that the quality aspect of coming to understand your Pokémon is all but skimmed over with Go except for a select few.

This I can partially agree with. Showing more of his efforts to study the Pokémon he’s caught onscreen would be ideal. It’s understandably difficult to do that given the nature of goal vs. limited time allotted to each episode, but I don’t personally think that it inherently makes it a poor goal. I still wouldn’t say it’s “quantity over quality” because I don’t think the amount of Pokémon he’s caught is an active detriment to the ones who do receive the focus.

In short, I do lament that the “learning all about them” aspect is relegated to offscreen for most of his Pokémon due to the limited timeframe there is to work with. But it doesn’t really detract from the overall goal to me.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I guess, to me, the focus episodes are obligatory anyway so rather than taking it as a “are you happy now?” moment, I just take the episode for face value just as I would have done if it had aired immediately after the capture episode. So the stretches in between don’t really bother me as much.

The fact they feel obligatory is a part of the problem for me. The Pokémon literally do not appear outside of the obligatory focus episodes, so having them not appear for entire stretches and then having random focus episodes when they come out of the woodwork to get their focus and then go not to be seen again feels hollow.

It’s not as Ash has too many Pokémon to manage like Gou. I’d be fine with the series structure if Gou’s Pokémon were background characters but we had Ash’s Pokémon who appear more frequently get good character arcs and good dynamics to compensate, but currently it’s a lose-lose scenario IMO.

 

[swiftgallade46]

The fact they feel obligatory is a part of the problem for me. The Pokémon literally do not appear outside of the obligatory focus episodes, so having them not appear for entire stretches and then having random focus episodes when they come out of the woodwork to get their focus and then go not to be seen again feels hollow.

It’s not as Ash has too many Pokémon to manage like Gou. I’d be fine with the series structure if Gou’s Pokémon were background characters but we had Ash’s Pokémon who appear more frequently get good character arcs and good dynamics to compensate, but currently it’s a lose-lose scenario IMO.

Well, what I meant by “obligatory” was that any Pokémon caught by Ash [almost...Palpitoad] has to receive a few focus episodes at one point, so the difference between that episode occurring right away or a stretch of episodes later wasn’t major to me. I do agree that I wish his Pokémon got more screen time in-between their focus episodes. I wouldn’t say it “literally” doesn’t ever occur, but I’d agree that it doesn’t occur enough (other than with Lucario and, obviously, Pikachu).

Still, I am honestly satisfied overall with most of Ash’s Pokemon thus far sans Dracovish and Gengar (both of whom I suspect will be getting focus episodes in the near future).

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I wouldn’t say it “literally” doesn’t ever occur,

It ended up being dangerously close to “literally”. Remember the long stretches of episodes where Gengar didn’t appear, where farfetch’d didn’t appear? Where Dracovish didn’t even appear after its capture?

Yes; farfetch’d for instance got its focus episodes, but did it get anything beyond its focus episodes? No.

I guess we differ in opinions since this treatment of Ash’s Pokémon is atrocious for me, and it’s a huge downgrade from other series. It’s an objective reduction in focus on Ash’s Pokémon as compared to other sagas and that isn’t a good thing.

 

[swiftgallade46]

It ended up being dangerously close to “literally”. Remember the long stretches of episodes where Gengar didn’t appear, where farfetch’d didn’t appear? Where Dracovish didn’t even appear after its capture?

Yes; farfetch’d for instance got its focus episodes, but did it get anything beyond its focus episodes? No.

I guess we differ in opinions since this treatment of Ash’s Pokémon is atrocious for me, and it’s a huge downgrade from other series. It’s an objective reduction in focus on Ash’s Pokémon as compared to other sagas and that isn’t a good thing.

I wouldn’t say it’s too close to literally not happening at all. There are a decent amount of instances where his Pokémon appear outside of focus episodes, it’s just not nearly enough and it happens for some more than others.

I would agree that it is an objective reduction, but whether or not that is a good thing or, at least, how much impact it has on the quality of the show overall is up for debate. I don’t like that they appear less outside of their own dedicated episodes, but I also don’t really notice it much.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I would agree that it is an objective reduction, but whether or not that is a good thing or,

Is that even up for debate? Ash’s Pokémon are up there in importance levels alongside his companions. You’ll have to explain to me how it can be viewed as a good thing because I see absolutely no upsides to this, not even hypothetical.

at least, how much impact it has on the quality of the show overall is up for debate. I don’t like that they appear less outside of their own dedicated episodes, but I also don’t really notice it much.

I’d say that the amount of focus on Pokémon in a series called Pokémon is significant for the quality of the show. I notice it a lot and it is really jarring coming from a series like Sun/Moon for a lot of us.

This, when coupled with the fact that Jessie and James are not allowed to own Pokémon (and their dynamics with their own Pokémon were a part of the positive experience their fans had), AND combined with the fact that the third character has most of his Pokémon as background characters due to logistic reasons is fairly problematic.

If they’re cutting down so much on Pokémon focus I’d expect Ash’s meagre set of Pokémon to be the absolute best in team coherence and focus, but it’s pretty much the worst. Literally every series did that better (I’m not speaking for BW since I haven’t watched it, and yes this isn’t an exaggeration. I think every series sans BW handled Ash’s team much better).

Yes that impacts my enjoyment of the series. And the fact that we can go 10+ episodes without even seeing some of Ash’s Pokémon is... sad.

These aspects when taken individually seem insignificant but when combined with the other small issues spread out here and there I can’t say I’m enjoying JN. I don’t know about the others but I watch Pokémon for the... Pokémon. Ash’s team, his companion’s adventures and his Pokémon growing stronger bit by bit. His Pokémon being paired with a rival’s Pokémon. Ash training his Pokémon and bonding with them. TRio’s beautiful dynamics with the Pokémon in Sun/Moon. The mature way of handling emotions and how a lot of arcs had a payoff.

A lot of it has collectively gone missing with Journeys.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Is it so hard to put 6 pokemon one shot interacting for 50 seconds once in a while?
OS did it
AG did it
DP did it
BW did it
XY did it
SM did it
Why cant JN?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Was it too hard to have Dragonite tending to Riolu, Lucario wanting to encourage Farfetch'd for its battles, Gengar staying together with the team since it got abandoned before, Dragonite in general trying to be a cuddly little thing to Farfetch’d? Because any other series wouldn’t have missed the opportunity to do that.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Is that even up for debate? Ash’s Pokémon are up there in importance levels alongside his companions. You’ll have to explain to me how it can be viewed as a good thing because I see absolutely no upsides to this, not even hypothetical.




I’d say that the amount of focus on Pokémon in a series called Pokémon is significant for the quality of the show. I notice it a lot and it is really jarring coming from a series like Sun/Moon for a lot of us.

This, when coupled with the fact that Jessie and James are not allowed to own Pokémon (and their dynamics with their own Pokémon were a part of the positive experience their fans had), AND combined with the fact that the third character has most of his Pokémon as background characters due to logistic reasons is fairly problematic.

If they’re cutting down so much on Pokémon focus I’d expect Ash’s meagre set of Pokémon to be the absolute best in team coherence and focus, but it’s pretty much the worst. Literally every series did that better (I’m not speaking for BW since I haven’t watched it, and yes this isn’t an exaggeration. I think every series sans BW handled Ash’s team much better).

Yes that impacts my enjoyment of the series. And the fact that we can go 10+ episodes without even seeing some of Ash’s Pokémon is... sad.

These aspects when taken individually seem insignificant but when combined with the other small issues spread out here and there I can’t say I’m enjoying JN. I don’t know about the others but I watch Pokémon for the... Pokémon. Ash’s team, his companion’s adventures and his Pokémon growing stronger bit by bit. His Pokémon being paired with a rival’s Pokémon. Ash training his Pokémon and bonding with them. TRio’s beautiful dynamics with the Pokémon in Sun/Moon. The mature way of handling emotions and how a lot of arcs had a payoff.

A lot of it has collectively gone missing with Journeys.

You completely hit the nail on the head here. One major flaw within Journeys is the complete lack of any actual team dynamic and cohesion with Ash’s Pokémon. Every series prior to this has had some kind of dynamic existing within the team, even going back to the OS where they were a lot more lax on the plot. Even BW had created a dynamic both with the members of Ash’s team and even between the Pokémon teams. Rather than Ash’s Pokémon feeling like a family or even a tightly knit group, they instead just feel like a group of strangers that happen to work in the same group. It’s an exceptionally noticeable lapse in quality.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Spoiler

Is that even up for debate? Ash’s Pokémon are up there in importance levels alongside his companions. You’ll have to explain to me how it can be viewed as a good thing because I see absolutely no upsides to this, not even hypothetical.

Of course it is. Not everyone necessarily values Ash’s Pokémon over everything else in the series. It being a prevailing opinion doesn’t make it objective. I can’t say I disagree with you personally, though.

Spoiler

I’d say that the amount of focus on Pokémon in a series called Pokémon is significant for the quality of the show. I notice it a lot and it is really jarring coming from a series like Sun/Moon for a lot of us.

Well yes of course but Ash’s Pokémon aren’t the only ones in the show. There is definitely no lack of Pokémon in JN.

Spoiler

This, when coupled with the fact that Jessie and James are not allowed to own Pokémon (and their dynamics with their own Pokémon were a part of the positive experience their fans had), AND combined with the fact that the third character has most of his Pokémon as background characters due to logistic reasons is fairly problematic.

Well, these are separate issues from Ash’s Pokémon entirely, but I do agree with wishing Jesse and James actually got to catch something in this series. I’ve explained a lot already that I don’t mind most of Goh’s Pokémon being relegated to the background, though.

Spoiler

These aspects when taken individually seem insignificant but when combined with the other small issues spread out here and there I can’t say I’m enjoying JN. I don’t know about the others but I watch Pokémon for the... Pokémon. Ash’s team, his companion’s adventures and his Pokémon growing stronger bit by bit. His Pokémon being paired with a rival’s Pokémon. Ash training his Pokémon and bonding with them. TRio’s beautiful dynamics with the Pokémon in Sun/Moon. The mature way of handling emotions and how a lot of arcs had a payoff.

A lot of it has collectively gone missing with Journeys.

I think what you’re saying here is that you watch the series for Ash’s Pokémon (and, to a lesser extent, TR’s), rather than just “Pokémon”.

And that is fair enough. I simply watch for different reasons. The impact of several small issues hasn’t been enough for me to really despise/dislike Journeys as much as others have. It’s not my favorite season by any means, but the fact that it is rather unorthodox has never really bothered me.

 

[skiittylalis]

i think one of the other problems with ashs journeys team is the fact that to me it appears that this team only exists for the baseless underdelivering hype that we've gotten so used to with journeys. i never really kept up with the pokeani fandom until last year but apparently way back in the day everyone wanted ash to catch a dragonite, gengar, lucario....... what have you. so when ash caught these exact pokemon and now they do nothing for 15+ episodes it really feels like the anime is coming off as "look!!!! he caught the big dragon and the spooky ghost and the overrated jackal!!! watch the show because we gave you fanservice!!" i cant really say much about sirfetchd and dracovish as ive never played swsh so i cant really guess how (un)popular they are but even then at this time 60% of ashs team (excluding pikachu hes always here) exists to just look cool and rope those old fans who wanted him to catch dragonite/gengar/lucario in after so long

the lack of screentime means that we never really see the pokemons personalities!! this sounds cheesy but THE POKEMON ARE CHARACTERS, just as important as ash, brock, misty, dawn, or any other human character. remember chimchar?? who wants to be invested in a character that's either so one note because they never show up to exhibit other traits...... or no character at all?? ive been rewatching advanced generation recently and its actually sad how that one episode about treecko and seviper managed to GOBSMACK me...... all because they gave treecko a bit of personality and character!! it took ONE SCENE that took up maybe two minutes of the episode to establish its character of being a loner type pokemon who wants to grow stronger!! and journeys cant find any room in their dumb filler themed focus spree to show off any personality traits of ashs team?? it honestly baffles me when people say that ashs journeys team is somehow "his best" because ash doesnt have a team this series...... but rather a shopping list of shillmon to show off now and again to build up nonexistent hype

maybe we're spoiled from sm but ash and his pokemon have always felt like a family, taken to some wholesome extremes in sm where alola IS ash's family. the slice of life thing from sm was perfect to build his relationship with his pokemon and for his pokemon to truly be teammates and know each other. i think journeys wants to be a slice of life half the time (its honestly so hard to pinpoint WHAT journeys wants to be but thats an essay for another thread!!) so theoretically between episodes of ash's (nonexistent) goal should be used to train, bond, understand, and love his pokemon. but uuuuuuh thats too hard to write i guess how dare the main character of the show called pokemon have a meaningful relationship with his pokemon

its just really times like this where i miss things like all of ashs pokemon coming out of their pokeballs to have lunch with the group. it was kinda cheesy, but it reminded us of what his team is at that particular lunch break, but also made them feel involved in the story no matter how insignificant having a meal was to the episodes actual plot. with journeys?? im not sure if ashs entire team has ever hung out together (or maybe they did it...... OFF SCREEN LIKE ALWAYS??) and interacted. this whole "we need to show off every pokemon!!" goal is biting the anime back in the booty so hard that theyre sacrificing ashs team to show off plusle and minun or some turtles and now gengar has had two trainers abandon it. its fine if you dont care about the pokemon and think my essay is lame but we viewers who DO care are being let down so hard right now and its honestly embarrassing how poorly theyve handled ashs team

do not get me started on team rocket

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Well yes of course but Ash’s Pokémon aren’t the only ones in the show. There is definitely no lack of Pokémon in JN.

There is a lack of Pokémon who have a regular focus. The entire main cast is somehow underdeveloped imo.
I

Well, these are separate issues from Ash’s Pokémon entirely, but I do agree with wishing Jesse and James actually got to catch something in this series. I’ve explained a lot already that I don’t mind most of Goh’s Pokémon being relegated to the background, though.

I don’t mind being Gou’s Pokémon being background characters. What I do mind is ALL Pokémon being background characters which aren’t Pikachu. Which is pretty much the case till the designated focus episode comes along with a hoard of people saying they “technically” got focus.

I think what you’re saying here is that you watch the series for Ash’s Pokémon (and, to a lesser extent, TR’s), rather than just “Pokémon”.

I watch it for the team dynamics, for the battles, for the Pokémon trainer bond, for the creative ways Pokémon interact and can be used together in the main cast creating a tight knit cohesive group and JN has failed to provide any of that satisfactorily.

I can’t watch a series where literally all Pokémon are relegated to being background characters aside from 1-2 poster children and focus episodes. Gou’s Pokémon are background characters. Ash’s Pokémon are background characters. TR doesn’t have Pokémon. What are we supposed to be invested in, exactly?
It it too much to ask for a show about Pokémon to have some of the cohesion and the warm and fuzzies between the team which it managed for 23 years?

It’s not my favorite season by any means, but the fact that it is rather unorthodox has never really bothered me.

I’m fine with unorthodox. But not when it comes with objective downgrades to the focus of the protagonist’s team. (Whether you like it or not is subjective but this plain fact is pretty objective that there’s been a downgrade in Pokémon focus for Ash’s team).

Sun and Moon was unorthodox as well. But it nailed that aspect. Of course, it came with trade offs. But there WAS something to gain. I’ve seen nothing gained in JN so far for which we’ve sacrificed the Pokémon bonds and all other jazz. It’s not delivering on the larger scale of the PWC, it’s not delivering on the world tour aspect.

Well, these are separate issues from Ash’s Pokémon entirely,

Yes, but I felt the need to include this since while some of these concerns might be minor in the long term and being angry over them might be nitpicky. there are so, so many of these minor details piling up that it integrates into a pretty sour product which isn’t fun to watch as a whole.