Pokemon Magicians

[Trainer Lisa]

Here you can discuss Pokemon Magicians in general. You can also talk about magic and alchemy, and what role this plays in the Pokemon World.

In the anime, there seems to be two different types of Pokemon Magicians:

- magicans who perform simple illusions and tricks to entertain people

- magicans like Lily, who carry around a spellbook and gather ingredients from Pokemon (chants or incantations also seem to be required). Apparently, this kind of magic is very powerful, because it was able to turn Ash into a Pikachu (and change him back too).

Personally, I like the character Lily, and I wish they would've had her return in another episode. It was so interesting, learning about how she performs her magic in "Hocus Pokemon". For one thing, Lily's spellbook has been in her family for generations, and it's been passed down to each generation. So we know for a fact, that the history of this kind of magic must go WAY back!

That's pretty interesting, if you ask me! ^^

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I'm interested in Butler because he was also a scientist, and that's a very awesome combination.

 

[The Outrage]

I was thinking Lily was like the Hex Maniac trainer class in RSE.

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

I wonder... If there were magicians of the kind that control elements, would they have fire-water-grass atributes? probably, as those would be the elements they would manipualte... Maybe a highly skilled one could even make a move like Flamethrower or Ice Beam.

Actually, I think there could have been a clan or something of these magicians that were able to face troublesome pokemon, before the concept of capturing them and using them to fight was around... Also, considering that some pokemon highly resemble humans, maybe these pokemon actually come from some these clans, that specialiced too much in a kind of magic... In japanese mythology humans can turn into yokai after all...

 

[Jnoo]

Magic that doesn't exert from the Pokemon themselves or science is pretty interesting, even in Pokemon. Though there is more than one way to be a Pokemon.

Crystals, Jirachi, Nuclear reaction, drugs, the list goes on.

Not that most of these would ever occur in the anime. xD


I wouldn't mind, or rather, I would love another Ashachu appearance. Since DP loves to remake some Johto episodes, why not re-feature Ashachu? Though, he needs another method.

But yeah, we need some spellcasters in this series. It may not make a whole lot of sense, but then again, when has Pokemon ever made sense.

 

[JB88]

Good for Lisa to make this thread, because I was about to comment on the posts made on the DP 070 thread.

I mean, they treated the storyline of Ash's transformation more like it was something that happens all the time in the anime, rather than something which was really unique and original.

Again, the writers weren't the smartest of the bunch back in Johto.

And then all of a sudden, there is a cloud of white smoke and Ash changes back. The expression on his face is just priceless! XD He's like, "O.O"

I vaguely remember this episode. It felt like a "...what just happened?" when they did that. Poorly done.

Imagine if a random trainer happened to pass by when that was happening. They would think they're seeing things! LOL.

Then he'd be in the smoke too. And watch him turn into a Pokemon! XD

In that case, I should probably see the rest of the HP movies I haven't seen yet. I don't know anything about Animagi. ^^;

Heh, are you sure you want to use the movies as your reference? They do a poor job of explaining what Animagi are.

Apart from HP, have you heard of the Animorphs series?

 

[Ino-Chan]

I like most of the magician episodes, but I culdn't understand it at all.

Off topic: I have JB88, and I have almost all the books.

 

[Trainer Lisa]

But yeah, we need some spellcasters in this series.

Ooh, I just thought of something...

Does Aura = magic? I mean, do you think Aura could be the writers' way of including "magic" into the D/P series, without actually including magic or Pokemon Magicians?

Then again, I'm still not sure what exactly Aura is. Actually, I was waiting to find out Aura's explanation in the upcoming Riolu episodes (it's a shame they're skipping those episodes for now). ^^;

Again, the writers weren't the smartest of the bunch back in Johto.

I know! This makes it even more surprising how they came up with the idea in the first place. XD

I mean, when I first saw "Hocus Pokemon", I was amazed at what happened at the end of the episode. I swear, it felt like a dream or something!

It was almost like the writers took a storyline from a fanfic and decided to make it REAL! XD Because in my opinion, that's how incredibly unique Ashachu was. ^_^

I vaguely remember this episode. It felt like a "...what just happened?" when they did that. Poorly done.

Heh, I can send you both "Hocus Pokemon" and "As Clear As Crystal", if you need the episodes. XD Just PM me if you want them. ^^

Then he'd be in the smoke too. And watch him turn into a Pokemon! XD?

Actually, when I mentioned Ash's expression, I was talking about the look on his face when he changed back. LOL. XD

Also, if someone were to pass by and see a Pokemon/Pikachu become a human they would definitely be surprised (same thing if they saw Ash get transformed). XD


Also, here's another thing I've been wondering. Because Ash was turned into a Pikachu, does this mean that Pokemon Magic has the power to turn a human into any Pokemon (except legendaries of course)?

One could assume that, because there was a spell which turned a human into a Pikachu - there might be other spells which could have similar results. Meaning, any of these magic spells could somehow, potentially cause a human to become a certain Pokemon.

The question though, is whether or not this was intentional (by the Pokemon magicians or whoever wrote the spellbook), or whether the human-to-Pokemon transformation was simply accidental (and not supposed to happen). Keep in mind that when Lily saw what happened to Ash, those were her exact words "Strange, that wasn't supposed to happen."

Heh. It sure makes you think, doesn't it? XD

Heh, are you sure you want to use the movies as your reference? They do a poor job of explaining what Animagi are.?

In that case, I'll probably just search for it on wikipedia or something. XD

Apart from HP, have you heard of the Animorphs series?

Yes, I have. I actually have a lot of those books, cause I used to be a huge fan of the Animorphs series. ^^

Although, nowadays, I don't read books much, if any.

 

[JB88]

Off topic: I have JB88, and I have almost all the books.

That's good to know. I guess there aren't a lot of raving HP fans on here, or I may be mistaken. I used to be one.

Does Aura = magic? I mean, do you think Aura could be the writers' way of including "magic" into the D/P series, without actually including magic or Pokemon Magicians?

Then again, I'm still not sure what exactly Aura is. Actually, I was waiting to find out Aura's explanation in the upcoming Riolu episodes (it's a shame they're skipping those episodes for now). ^^;

Actually, I'd like to think of Aura as the "soul energy" inside any being, similar to qi. There is also the actual meaning of aura, which relates to religious themes. That may the one similar to what we're discussing. Other disambiguations of Aura are an optical phenomenon, known as halos and a symptom related to seizures and headaches. I don't know if "Aura" as May's name in Spanish means anything (other than Advanceshipping hints).

It was almost like the writers took a storyline from a fanfic and decided to make it REAL! XD Because in my opinion, that's how incredibly unique Ashachu was. ^_^

With the right flow we would've gotten a nice arc from this.

Heh, I can send you both "Hocus Pokemon" and "As Clear As Crystal", if you need the episodes. XD Just PM me if you want them. ^^

Thank you for the offer, but I can find them myself if I want to see them. Very generous of you.

Actually, when I mentioned Ash's expression, I was talking about the look on his face when he changed back. LOL. XD

Heh, sorry, don't remember.

Also, here's another thing I've been wondering. Because Ash was turned into a Pikachu, does this mean that Pokemon Magic has the power to turn a human into any Pokemon (except legendaries of course)?

Possible, if you have the right ingredients. I think I remember "Lily" had some book with her, using some ingredients? Or were they just words?

The question though, is whether or not this was intentional (by the Pokemon magicians or whoever wrote the spellbook), or whether the human-to-Pokemon transformation was simply accidental (and not supposed to happen). Keep in mind that when Lily saw what happened to Ash, those were her exact words "Strange, that wasn't supposed to happen."

Well, from the magical world I know *winks*, for an average wizard or witch, past his/her learning experiences, to say "that wasn't supposed to happen" would be clearly unacceptable. Unless you're some kook, or experimenting like this girl may have, or the writers were just doing it for their usual "shits and giggles".

I can only see if you're in the learning phase, to make such remarks, because you are learning how to cast the spell. Which makes me now wonder, where did this "Lily" come from? In a Pokemon world, with seeing "mostly" normal people, this is weird to see. A girl in a witch's costume wandering around with a book and having shits and giggles...

This world is quite the melting pot. You've got people not in different skin color, but people with completely different ideologies. They don't all follow the same path, they all tend to their own communities. I can think of this as an example, then the Xatu episode, and some other "ritualistic" people (like the people in the Orange Islands, don't remember it well, but there was Meowth as their leader or something, and there was fruit).

In that case, I'll probably just search for it on wikipedia or something. XD

Or I could just tell you in a nutshell.

I didn't remember the Animorphs books very well, so I can't explain them fully. But I hope you get the picture from that. I never wasn't into it, just read the books somewhat.

 

[Adamant]

In the anime, there seems to be two different types of Pokemon Magicians:

Eh, that's only due to the limitations of the English language, and it's lack of a specific term to describe stage magicians. Lily and Whatsherface shouldn't really be described wit hthe same term, since their professions are two completely different things. In retrospect, it would've been wiser to call Lily a sorceress, but of course they had no idea an actual stage magician would show up in the series 6 years later at the time.

 

[Trainer Lisa]

Possible, if you have the right ingredients. I think I remember "Lily" had some book with her, using some ingredients? Or were they just words?

Yes, she has a spellbook, which tells her how to perform Pokemon Magic. But the way Pokemon Magic works is by using ingredients from Pokemon. So, both the spellbook and the ingredients are necessary to complete the spells.

If you don't have all the ingredients, then you can't complete the spell. Actually, now that I think about it, that explains why no one else was able to complete the Pokemon Mind Reading spell until now. Not only were there a lot of ingredients in that spell, but they were also very hard to find. And apparently, wild Pikachu must be hard to find in the anime (otherwise, that spell would've been completed before).

Although, I don't understand why the writers made the text of Lily's book "smuged". Because at the end of the episode, Lily couldn't read the next page of the spell, so we (the audience) we're prevented from finding out whether the spell went wrong, or whether that's how the spell actually works.

I can only see if you're in the learning phase, to make such remarks, because you are learning how to cast the spell.

That's what I think, actually. I bet Lily wasn't nearly as exprerienced as some other Pokemon Magicians might be.

That, and also, she was probably experimenting with this particular spell, because she said the following: "this spell has never been completed, because there was always one ingredient missing, a Pikachu's Thunderbolt".

At the beginning of the episode, Lily also said, "I'm performing a new trick for my magic show and I need a Pikachu's Thunderbolt".

LOL, I don't think she would want to perform THAT trick for her magic show, otherwise she might have one (or more than one) unhappy customer. Hehehe. XD

This world is quite the melting pot. You've got people not in different skin color, but people with completely different ideologies. They don't all follow the same path, they all tend to their own communities.

Oh, yes! I love all those different cultures!

The world of the Pokemon anime is so interesting and diverse. It's awesome!! ^_^

Or I could just tell you in a nutshell.

I didn't remember the Animorphs books very well, so I can't explain them fully. But I hope you get the picture from that. I never wasn't into it, just read the books somewhat.

Oh, so Animagi are similar to Animorphs? Ah, I get what they are now. Thanks! ^^

Eh, that's only due to the limitations of the English language, and it's lack of a specific term to describe stage magicians. Lily and Whatsherface shouldn't really be described wit hthe same term, since their professions are two completely different things. In retrospect, it would've been wiser to call Lily a sorceress, but of course they had no idea an actual stage magician would show up in the series 6 years later at the time.

Oh, I see.

Thank you for explaining that, Adamant. ^^

I've been wondering about that for a while.

 

[Rosakai]

Although, I don't understand why the writers made the text of Lily's book "smuged". Because at the end of the episode, Lily couldn't read the next page of the spell, so we (the audience) we're prevented from finding out whether the spell went wrong, or whether that's how the spell actually works.

I wonder-if that's how the spell is supposed to work, is Pikachu the only Pokemon you can turn into? Or can you alter the ingredients (like, say, use a Chimchar's Flamethrower) to become a different Pokemon? It's something I've always thought about. Surely Pikachu isn't the only Pokemon the spell can result in? Since it was the only result we saw, it's hard to tell for certain...

 

[Trainer Lisa]

I wonder-if that's how the spell is supposed to work, is Pikachu the only Pokemon you can turn into? Or can you alter the ingredients (like, say, use a Chimchar's Flamethrower) to become a different Pokemon?

Wow! That's exactly what I was wondering! ^_^

But I didn't know how to word it. Hehe. XD


You know, it seems like, after they made "Hocus Pokemon", the writers left a lot of questions unanswered. That is a shame, because we don't know much about Pokemon Magic, or the Pokemon Mind Reading Spell (and we really don't know anything about Ashachu).

That's why, if the writers ever get the chance, they should redo this storyline in D/P. I know that if they ever had this idea again, they would make an awesome episode (or couple of episodes).

 

[JB88]

Eh, that's only due to the limitations of the English language, and it's lack of a specific term to describe stage magicians. Lily and Whatsherface shouldn't really be described wit hthe same term, since their professions are two completely different things. In retrospect, it would've been wiser to call Lily a sorceress, but of course they had no idea an actual stage magician would show up in the series 6 years later at the time.

Yes, I think the first thing to do is differentiate between what Lily is and what Francesca is. Then there's also Callista's case, and I'll get to that momentarily.

I would say we should talk more of Lily, and less of Francesca from DP 070. This is because Francesca is the "commercialized, modernized" definition of a magician, as a form of entertainer. Lily is not like this. She acts like a witch but under this guise I don't know what she really does.

Callista's case is unique, because her role is like a Seer, or fortune teller-type, and it turns out she eventually has a real job as a weather reporter (so the Seer of weather forecasting via the Xatu is a guise). So if Lily was more explored, we might've found out what she really does, instead of wearing a witch's costume and wandering around with a book. Again, this was nowhere within the writers' grasp, so we can't go anywhere with it, just to compare Callista and Lily. Did Lily have any Pokemon?

Yes, she has a spellbook, which tells her how to perform Pokemon Magic. But the way Pokemon Magic works is by using ingredients from Pokemon. So, both the spellbook and the ingredients are necessary to complete the spells.

Okay, so I kinda see where the writers were going with this, by a rehash of HP lore mixed in...

If you don't have all the ingredients, then you can't complete the spell. Actually, now that I think about it, that explains why no one else was able to complete the Pokemon Mind Reading spell until now. Not only were there a lot of ingredients in that spell, but they were also very hard to find. And apparently, wild Pikachu must be hard to find in the anime (otherwise, that spell would've been completed before).

Again, the writers were going with that HP tangent and see if they could compete with J.K. Rowling. Because in that world, nothing goes right (when it comes to Potions, specifically). With transforming and other things however, it takes a different process for it to work right, such as mental skill and preparation. Oh, and saying the spell correctly, through pronunciation. What "Lily" was doing was a mixture of Potion-making and everything else. Quite poor for writing standards, if I say so myself. I mean, if you want to imitate a great work, do it properly. Another point why Johto sucked.

Although, I don't understand why the writers made the text of Lily's book "smuged". Because at the end of the episode, Lily couldn't read the next page of the spell, so we (the audience) we're prevented from finding out whether the spell went wrong, or whether that's how the spell actually works.

Whatever it was, it was just a stop sign from the writers that said "do not think even further because we stopped caring about this episode anymore."

That, and also, she was probably experimenting with this particular spell, because she said the following: "this spell has never been completed, because there was always one ingredient missing, a Pikachu's Thunderbolt".

So in the real Pokemon world she is probably a scientist who loves experimenting...she's not really a witch. That would make it utterly ridiculous according to those standards. Er...couldn't she ask for a Thunderbolt?

LOL, I don't think she would want to perform THAT trick for her magic show, otherwise she might have one (or more than one) unhappy customer. Hehehe. XD

*shrugs* It still would've been entertaining to see.

Oh, so Animagi are similar to Animorphs? Ah, I get what they are now. Thanks! ^^

Yeah, except you've got guidelines and rules, and it's almost illegal unless you register and blah blah blah. It's a very complicated process to do it, though. The Animorphs...I don't remember how they did it, was it because they gained powers or something? Because to be an Animagus, you can learn it yourself, you don't have any prerequisites, just do it properly and don't mess up.

I wonder-if that's how the spell is supposed to work, is Pikachu the only Pokemon you can turn into? Or can you alter the ingredients (like, say, use a Chimchar's Flamethrower) to become a different Pokemon? It's something I've always thought about. Surely Pikachu isn't the only Pokemon the spell can result in? Since it was the only result we saw, it's hard to tell for certain...

If they expanded with this, yeah you could be any Pokemon or thing.

 

[Trainer Lisa]

I would say we should talk more of Lily, and less of Francesca from DP 070. This is because Francesca is the "commercialized, modernized" definition of a magician, as a form of entertainer. Lily is not like this. She acts like a witch but under this guise I don't know what she really does.

Callista's case is unique, because her role is like a Seer, or fortune teller-type, and it turns out she eventually has a real job as a weather reporter (so the Seer of weather forecasting via the Xatu is a guise). So if Lily was more explored, we might've found out what she really does, instead of wearing a witch's costume and wandering around with a book. Again, this was nowhere within the writers' grasp, so we can't go anywhere with it, just to compare Callista and Lily.

Ooh, that's a very good comparison!

I like it! ^^

Did Lily have any Pokemon?

Yes! She has a Murkrow. =)

It's the only Pokemon that we got to see though, so we don't know whether or not she has any other Pokemon....

Oh, and I forgot to mention that Lily also used a few chants/incantations in "Hocus Pokemon". Because she cast two different spells in the episode. And she always said a little chant, before adding the last ingredient to the potion. It can be assumed that these chants are also required for Pokemon Magic.

However, near the beginning, when Lily was explaining Pokemon Magic to Ash, Misty, and Brock, she didn't say anything about what role her chants have in the process of casting spells. Mainly, she only talked about her book and about gathering ingredients from Pokemon.


By the way, what I find interesting about Pokemon Magic, is that you don't have to drink the potion. XD Neither Misty, nor Ash drank the potion when they voluneered for their respective spells. Instead, they were completely surrounded by a strange cloud of smoke (it was black colored for Misty, yellow colored for Ash). And after the smoke clears, that's when you see the results of the spell.

Again, the writers were going with that HP tangent and see if they could compete with J.K. Rowling. Because in that world, nothing goes right (when it comes to Potions, specifically). With transforming and other things however, it takes a different process for it to work right, such as mental skill and preparation. Oh, and saying the spell correctly, through pronunciation. What "Lily" was doing was a mixture of Potion-making and everything else. Quite poor for writing standards, if I say so myself. I mean, if you want to imitate a great work, do it properly. Another point why Johto sucked.

Well, there's really no way we can be sure if that's what the writers were actually trying to do (a HP reference) with this episode.

But if that was the case, then I guess you're right. They did screw up the storyline of "Hocus Pokemon" by not staying close enough to the way magic works in HP.

And I agree with you that the series had bad writing back in Johto. But, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Johto sucked. Heck, I enjoyed all 3 seasons of Johto. And Master Quest was definitely my favorite season! It was awesome! ^_^

So in the real Pokemon world she is probably a scientist who loves experimenting...she's not really a witch. That would make it utterly ridiculous according to those standards. Er...couldn't she ask for a Thunderbolt?

What do you mean, ask for a Thunderbolt? I guess if she had found a wild Pikachu, then she could've asked it to use Thunderbolt on the potion.

However, at the beginning of the episode, Lily explains that she couldn't find a Pikachu. That was the main problem, and why she was unable to cast the spell. Also, Lily goes on to explain that there is a spell to FIND a Pikachu. But unfortunately, that spell requires a hair from a Raichu's mane - and of course, Raichu are very hard to find (in the anime).

So yeah, Lily was very lucky, because she ran into Ash who happens to have a Pikachu. XD

Yeah, except you've got guidelines and rules, and it's almost illegal unless you register and blah blah blah. It's a very complicated process to do it, though. The Animorphs...I don't remember how they did it, was it because they gained powers or something? Because to be an Animagus, you can learn it yourself, you don't have any prerequisites, just do it properly and don't mess up.

Yeah, the characters in Animorphs gained their powers when some kind of alien crash landed or something.

Ah, I see. So the Animagi have a lot of rules and you have to learn it properly and stuff. I get the idea now. ^^

Anyway, I think we're getting off topic now, with all this talk about Harry Potter and Animorphs, lol. XD

I think it would be okay to talk about HP a little bit though, but only for comparison purposes, so that you can relate it to Lily/Pokemon Magicians.

 

[JB88]

Ooh, that's a very good comparison!

Thank you. My knowledge of the Potterworld (and someone from that world who I tend to imitate ) has helped me make these comparisons make some sense.

Yes! She has a Murkrow.

Hmm...I can't think of anything except that it tends to bring bad luck upon trainers, so maybe that's why most of her spells don't work?

Oh, and I forgot to mention that Lily also used a few chants/incantations in "Hocus Pokemon". Because she cast two different spells in the episode. And she always said a little chant, before adding the last ingredient to the potion. It can be assumed that these chants are also required for Pokemon Magic.

This is probably what the writers wanted their version of "magic" to be. Usually chants are not required when brewing potions, because chants are the other form of "magicking".

However, near the beginning, when Lily was explaining Pokemon Magic to Ash, Misty, and Brock, she didn't say anything about what role her chants have in the process of casting spells. Mainly, she only talked about her book and about gathering ingredients from Pokemon.

Maybe because the writers don't actually know, and don't want to explain it? They probably didn't want this episode to be a brain teaser, but a simple entertaining episode (like what their goal was to be for all fillers, but failed miserably for the most part). Perhaps the chants added some "sensation" to magic.

By the way, what I find interesting about Pokemon Magic, is that you don't have to drink the potion. XD Neither Misty, nor Ash drank the potion when they voluneered for their respective spells. Instead, they were completely surrounded by a strange cloud of smoke (it was black colored for Misty, yellow colored for Ash). And after the smoke clears, that's when you see the results of the spell.

I think you do. They "smoked" it out because they couldn't show the actual effects of it. I understand where you're coming from, but this is the way I saw it.

Well, there's really no way we can be sure if that's what the writers were actually trying to do (a HP reference) with this episode.

If not this episode, then surely with Clark in AG128. I mean come on, who are they kidding? "The Conductor"? Give me a friggin' break. His design, everything about him. Frankly it's an insult to his character by slapping a different label under him.

Heck, I enjoyed all 3 seasons of Johto. And Master Quest was definitely my favorite season! It was awesome! ^_^

Don't worry, I'm not like Scott when it comes to bad-mouthing Johto. I did like some episodes, absolutely LOVED the opening of Johto Journeys, but you probably knew that, and I won't go into it.

What do you mean, ask for a Thunderbolt? I guess if she had found a wild Pikachu, then she could've asked it to use Thunderbolt on the potion.

But wasn't Ash's Pikachu there? Why couldn't she just ask?

However, at the beginning of the episode, Lily explains that she couldn't find a Pikachu. That was the main problem, and why she was unable to cast the spell. Also, Lily goes on to explain that there is a spell to FIND a Pikachu. But unfortunately, that spell requires a hair from a Raichu's mane - and of course, Raichu are very hard to find (in the anime).

Wait, so she needed a Pikachu and Raichu? And when I read this, one instant thing came up to my mind, and that is what the writers may have been imitating: the Polyjuice Potion. A strand of hair (in this case, Raichu's mane)? Yeah, you pour that in, along with some other stuff, you drink it, and you become that human being (in this case, a Raichu). The writers may have mixed this up with Pikachu's Thunderbolt for instance, and other things.

Yeah, the characters in Animorphs gained their powers when some kind of alien crash landed or something.

Okay then this episode isn't the same as that then. More close to the Animagi, or a new case, Polyjuice Potion.

So the Animagi have a lot of rules and you have to learn it properly and stuff. I get the idea now. ^^

Anyway, I think we're getting off topic now, with all this talk about Harry Potter and Animorphs, lol. XD

I think it would be okay to talk about HP a little bit though, but only for comparison purposes, so that you can relate it to Lily/Pokemon Magicians.

The rules are just for legal purposes. We don't have to bring up Animorphs, but I think HP plays a part in this episode. And I'm saying this cause this is the only wizarding knowledge we know. What other examples can we bring up?

 

[Trainer Lisa]

Hmm...I can't think of anything except that it tends to bring bad luck upon trainers, so maybe that's why most of her spells don't work?

Yeah, that's a good theory. ^^

I think you do. They "smoked" it out because they couldn't show the actual effects of it. I understand where you're coming from, but this is the way I saw it.

Well, in Misty's case the smoke didn't have any sort of effect on her. All that happened was, the smoke cloud caused a bunch of Spinarak to use String Shot on Misty, and wrap her up completely. And apparently, the silk from Spinarak is good for your skin, so that's how the spell works (Misty's spell gave her softer and smoother skin).

As for Ash though, when the smoke covered him up, you couldn't actually "see" the transformation. That's something I've been wondering about. It would've been cool, if we actually got to see Ash's transformation from a human to a Pikachu. Though, I suppose it would've been difficult for the animators to show those changes take place. I believe the yellow smoke was simply a cover-up thing, so that no one would see his transformation. (though, perhaps Lily, Misty, and Brock could see something was happening, the way they looked at him right after the smoke surrounded Ash)

Also, I find it amusing that Ash himself wasn't aware of what happened to him, until seeing his reflection in Misty's mirror. XD

If not this episode, then surely with Clark in AG128. I mean come on, who are they kidding? "The Conductor"? Give me a friggin' break. His design, everything about him. Frankly it's an insult to his character by slapping a different label under him.

Yeah, I remember Clark. LOL. XD

But personally, I wasn't offended by that HP reference, because I'm not a big fan of HP. If anything, I think it's nice that the writers like to reference different things in the anime. ^^

But wasn't Ash's Pikachu there? Why couldn't she just ask?

She did ask for Ash's help. And he agreed to help her complete the Pokemon Mind Reading Spell.

Ash: "We'll help ya out, Lily! Just think, with your spell and my Pikachu, we can make it actually work!".

Wait, so she needed a Pikachu and Raichu? And when I read this, one instant thing came up to my mind, and that is what the writers may have been imitating: the Polyjuice Potion. A strand of hair (in this case, Raichu's mane)? Yeah, you pour that in, along with some other stuff, you drink it, and you become that human being (in this case, a Raichu). The writers may have mixed this up with Pikachu's Thunderbolt for instance, and other things.?

No, Lily didn't need a Pikachu and a Raichu.

For the Pokemon Mind Reading Spell (the spell which turned Ash into a Pikachu), she only needed a Pikachu's Thunderbolt, which is the final ingredient of the spell. All the other Pokemon ingredients she needed, I guess those weren't as rare as wild Pikachu are.

However, Lily's problem was that she couldn't find a Pikachu. So therefore, when Ash showed up, that solved Lily's problem. Ash and his friends agreed to help her gather the rest of the ingredients and everything.


The only reason I mentioned Raichu was because, back when Lily was having trouble finding a Pikachu - she told Ash and his friends that she wanted to try a Pikachu Catching Magic Spell. But, in order to do that, she needed a lock of hair from the mane of a Raichu.

You see, Lily was going on and on about this Pikachu Catching Magic Spell, and the whole time, Ash, Misty, and Brock didn't know what the heck she was talking about, because Lily hadn't explained anything about how Pokemon Magic works. The look on their faces was hilarioius!! XD (if you haven't seen "Hocus Pokemon" before, I suggest you watch it, because it's a really funny episode!)

And I'm saying this cause this is the only wizarding knowledge we know. What other examples can we bring up?

Ah, I see what you mean.

In that case, it's okay.

Please feel free to mention any examples and useful information from the HP universe, so we can compare it to Pokemon Magic. ^^

 

[JB88]

Well, in Misty's case the smoke didn't have any sort of effect on her. All that happened was, the smoke cloud caused a bunch of Spinarak to use String Shot on Misty, and wrap her up completely. And apparently, the silk from Spinarak is good for your skin, so that's how the spell works (Misty's spell gave her softer and smoother skin).

Wow. That's really awkward, then. I can't say anything else after that.

(though, perhaps Lily, Misty, and Brock could see something was happening, the way they looked at him right after the smoke surrounded Ash)

I believe they would. If making a transformation through animation was feasible to the writers.

Also, I find it amusing that Ash himself wasn't aware of what happened to him, until seeing his reflection in Misty's mirror.

Perhaps in that "magic" you don't feel anything until someone tells you. In the HP world you could tell that you felt different than normal. And some changes were so drastic and sudden, that it required rapid action to compensate for it.

But personally, I wasn't offended by that HP reference, because I'm not a big fan of HP. If anything, I think it's nice that the writers like to reference different things in the anime.

Meh, maybe because I was really into it back then (because the saga was still going) and I was back and forth with the AG series, and never thought of it another way.

She did ask for Ash's help. And he agreed to help her complete the Pokemon Mind Reading Spell.

But the spell ended in failure?

For the Pokemon Mind Reading Spell (the spell which turned Ash into a Pikachu), she only needed a Pikachu's Thunderbolt, which is the final ingredient of the spell. All the other Pokemon ingredients she needed, I guess those weren't as rare as wild Pikachu are.

However, Lily's problem was that she couldn't find a Pikachu. So therefore, when Ash showed up, that solved Lily's problem. Ash and his friends agreed to help her gather the rest of the ingredients and everything.

So for a substitute, she could just use Pikachu's Thunderbolt instead of Raichu's mane? EDIT: Never mind, those were completely different spells.

And yeah of course when Ash and co. would show up they would help her. That's a given.

The only reason I mentioned Raichu was because, back when Lily was having trouble finding a Pikachu - she told Ash and his friends that she wanted to try a Pikachu Catching Magic Spell. But, in order to do that, she needed a lock of hair from the mane of a Raichu.

Wow. That is so...weird and twisted. I really think now that the writers back then were just flirting with this. We all know the basic ways of catching a Pokemon, lest a Pikachu. Now I think there really wasn't a point in all of this, just a wacky way to capture a Pokemon.

You see, Lily was going on and on about this Pikachu Catching Magic Spell, and the whole time, Ash, Misty, and Brock didn't know what the heck she was talking about, because Lily hadn't explained anything about how Pokemon Magic works.

She should've explained it though. I'd love to know what the writers' "magic" idea was, what they've come up with. What I've seen is not that satisfactory, but it was a funny episode overall. The whole concept of magic and Pokemon don't tie in very well, and it explains their expressions perfectly.

Now that we have aura, I see they're being original. Okay, aura isn't that original because its form has been used in different varieties in other anime, but the Pokemon version has a good foundation, and I think it can become very well-defined if the writers play their cards right.

Please feel free to mention any examples and useful information from the HP universe, so we can compare it to Pokemon Magic.

I'll happy to compare this and that when it needs be.

 

[Trainer Lisa]

I believe they would. If making a transformation through animation was feasible to the writers.

Ooh, that's cool. =D

Perhaps in that "magic" you don't feel anything until someone tells you. In the HP world you could tell that you felt different than normal. And some changes were so drastic and sudden, that it required rapid action to compensate for it.

Ah, I see.

That's very interesting. ^^

But the spell ended in failure?

Unfortunately, we don't know....

You see, after Ash was turned into a Pikachu, Lily looked in her spellbook and discovered that the spell continued onto the next page. However, she was unable to read this page because it was smudged, and the page appeared dirty-looking, therefore making the text unreadable. =(

So unfortunately, we never found out whether Lily messed up the spell, or if perhaps, that was supposed to happen to Ash.


What's weird is that, if you try to use clues from this episode, the script actually contradicts itself.

Lily: "Strange, that wasn't supposed to happen." Right after seeing Ashachu.

And in another scene, when Misty asked Lily about whether the spell was permanent, Lily said that "Ash will be back to normal as soon as spell wears off". So, I'm assuming Lily knows a lot about the Pokemon Mind Reading Spell, just not what was on that last page.

Anyway, later on, when Ashachu goes to play with the other Pokekmon, Misty and Brock are watching him play.

Misty: "So, maybe the spell worked afterall."
Brock: "Yeah, Ash is definitely inside the mind of a Pikachu!"

So yeah, it's kinda hard to tell whether the spell worked correctly, or if what happened to Ash was just an accident (lol). XD

She should've explained it though. I'd love to know what the writers' "magic" idea was, what they've come up with. What I've seen is not that satisfactory, but it was a funny episode overall.

Yes, I'd also be interested in knowing what exactly the writers came up with for "Hocus Pokemon" and "As Clear As Crystal". It would be awesome to know what their original ideas were for the Lily/Ashachu storyline.

Heh, it'd be cool if WPM could use his connections to somehow speak with one of the Japanese writers/producers and ask about Pokemon Magic and Ashachu.

The whole concept of magic and Pokemon don't tie in very well, and it explains their expressions perfectly.

Yeah, it does explain the characters' expressions. ^^

And actually, I LOVE all the expressions that the characters made during "Hocus Pokemon". I mean, the look on everyone's faces during every scene was hilarious. That's another reason why I love this episode so much. It was so enjoyable for me, and I consider this to be one of the funniest Pokemon episodes ever!! XD

Now that we have aura, I see they're being original. Okay, aura isn't that original because its form has been used in different varieties in other anime, but the Pokemon version has a good foundation, and I think it can become very well-defined if the writers play their cards right.

I completely agree with you.

And I'm looking forward to the upcoming Riolu episodes, and any other Aura episodes that the writers might come up with. ^^

 

[JB88]

You see, after Ash was turned into a Pikachu, Lily looked in her spellbook and discovered that the spell continued onto the next page. However, she was unable to read this page because it was smudged, and the page appeared dirty-looking, therefore making the text unreadable. =(

So unfortunately, we never found out whether Lily messed up the spell, or if perhaps, that was supposed to happen to Ash.

I suppose the audience got to see what they wanted to see, whether Ash transformed into a Pikachu or not. That may have been the gist of the spell, if it was something else then I wouldn't think the spell would've been interesting to see in the first place.

And in another scene, when Misty asked Lily about whether the spell was permanent, Lily said that "Ash will be back to normal as soon as spell wears off". So, I'm assuming Lily knows a lot about the Pokemon Mind Reading Spell, just not what was on that last page.

Spells can be either temporary or permanent. Potions have a limit, but if you want to extend the effects you have to keep drinking it.

So yeah, it's kinda hard to tell whether the spell worked correctly, or if what happened to Ash was just an accident (lol).

Oooh, I remember now. Lily said that it didn't work right, yet Misty and Brock say that it did work properly. I see the discrepancy here. So now we could assume that Lily is a beginner in this ...field...

So after saying all this, how can Lily be sure of some things, but unsure about others?

One more thing! Did Lily have a British accent by any chance? I swear I remember they used a British accent on her. And her hair's red!

Heh, it'd be cool if WPM could use his connections to somehow speak with one of the Japanese writers/producers and ask about Pokemon Magic and Ashachu.

They should bring him back. Or if not, then an adult of him on an acid-trip. It would be funny.

And actually, I LOVE all the expressions that the characters made during "Hocus Pokemon". I mean, the look on everyone's faces during every scene was hilarious. That's another reason why I love this episode so much. It was so enjoyable for me, and I consider this to be one of the funniest Pokemon episodes ever!!

Yeah, that's why the episode was so entertaining because we haven't seen anything like it before.