• A new LGBTQ+ forum is now being trialed and there have been changes made to the Support and Advice forum. To read more about these updates, click here.
  • Hey Trainers! Be sure to check out Corsola Beach, our newest section on the forums, in partnership with our friends at Corsola Cove! At the Beach, you can discuss the competitive side of the games, post your favorite Pokemon memes, and connect with other Pokemon creators!
  • Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.

Speculation Pokemon Mansion was originally designed as a dungeon for Moltres?

Kit Chan

Team Galactic Grunt
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
1,109
Reaction score
204
There are similarities between Pokemon Mansion and the locations of Zapdos and Articuno.
In the original Red, Green and Blue:
All wild Electric types including Zapdos can be found in the Power Plant
All wild Ice types including Articuno and most Water types can be found in Seafoam Islands
All wild Fire types except Moltres and Poison types associated with toxic fumes can be found in Pokemon Mansion
Further more the version exclusive humanshapes are located:
Red's Electabuzz is located in the Power Plant
Blue's Jynx is located in Seafoam Islands
Green's Magmar is located in Pokemon Mansion

Power Plant, Seafoam Islands and Pokemon Mansion are all dungeons, reachable no sooner than obtaining Surf and the Soul Badge.
The dungeons also all feature some form of puzzle and maze to navigate though to the Legendary Bird/Secret Key:
Although not much of a puzzle but can still be considered, Power Plant has Voltorb and Electrode disguised as items.
Seafoam has it's boulders and water flow puzzle.
Pokemon Mansion has the switch puzzle.

Vicroty Road breaks all common trends of the Bird dungeons, furthermore, Victory road has an alternative objective unlike the other Bird dungeons.

Blaine was guided out of trecherous freezing mountains by a Moltres which led him to start a Fire Gym on Cinnabar Island, the freezing mountains could've been on or near the Seafoam Islands which are near Cinnabar Island.

In the remakes Moltres, is relocated to a new dungeon on Knot Island and obtainable earlier in the game. Some of the Pokemon Mansion wild Pokemon were also relocated to Knot Island
To reach Knot Island the first time, you must depart from Cinnabar Island.

Lastly: In Gen 1, the TM for Solarbeam is located in Pokemon Mansion and Sky Attack is located in Victory Road while in Gen 2 Solar Beam is located en route to Victory Road. It is possible Sky Attack and Solar Beam's locations were swapped when Moltres was relocated.

In conclusion: I suspect Pokemon Mansion was originally designed as Moltres's dungeon and later repurposed to house the Secret Key. It may even have been located near rather than on Cinnabar Island and had a different name, tile design and lore (perhaps at one point it was the treacherous freezing mountains where Moltres guided Blaine, as the Blizzard TM could indicate)


Edit: Another thing I didn't consider at the time of writing, is with all the mention of Mewtwo experiments at Pokemon Mansion, perhaps the Mansion was originally meant to have Mewtwo (or maybe even Mew prior to the decision to not program Mew in) at the end while Seafoam was intended for Moltres and Cerulean Cave or somewhere else was an Articuno dungeon, then they were all switched around prior to Pokemon Mansion getting repurposed for the Secret Key.
 
Last edited:
Interesting theory. One thing that bugs me about Cinnibar Island is that it's a relatively normal island in RGBYFRLG and then suddenly sprouts a volcano and erupts in GSCHGSS. It would make so much more sense if Cinnibar Island was a volcanic island and Moltres could be caught in the volcano. It's possible that they could've thought of something like this and didn't include it because of time or technical limitations, but then the remakes didn't really do anything with that, FRLG kept it a normal island and HGSS made it so you could Rock Climb around the island, but there was no dungeon or anything.

Maybe they thought putting Moltres and Articuno too close together was a bad idea? The only thing that would really bother me in that respect is that Zapdos is further away from the other two, but they could simply add a third island for Zapdos on Rt. 19.
 
I'm beginning to suspect they changed it twice (a lot can happen in a 5 yr development cycle) maybe first Seafoam Islands were Moltres's hangout (and you navigated mountains instead of an underground cave) while the mansion was Mewtwo's hangout and Articuno was in Cerulean Cave (hence the trainer with <L32 Pokemon near the entrance like with the Power Plant and Seafoam Islands). Then they decided to change it so Mewtwo is in Cerulean Cave, Articuno is in Seafoam and Moltres is in the Mansion, then decided last minute to replace Moltres with the secret Key and put it in Victory Road.

It would explain why wild Raichu and Electrode are found in a cave as they were moved with Mewtwo.

Edit: Additionally to go with the Mewtwo theory, the Secret Key could've been required to access Pokemon Mansion and obtained in Victory Road or from Professor Oak after beating the Elite Four or catching 149 Pokemon.
 
Last edited:
I'm beginning to suspect they changed it twice (a lot can happen in a 5 yr development cycle) maybe first Seafoam Islands were Moltres's hangout (and you navigated mountains instead of an underground cave) while the mansion was Mewtwo's hangout and Articuno was in Cerulean Cave (hence the trainer with <L32 Pokemon near the entrance like with the Power Plant and Seafoam Islands). Then they decided to change it so Mewtwo is in Cerulean Cave, Articuno is in Seafoam and Moltres is in the Mansion, then decided last minute to replace Moltres with the secret Key and put it in Victory Road.

It would explain why wild Raichu are found in a cave as they were moved with Mewtwo.

I think you're overthinking this. Every little thing doesn't have to fit the legendary placement.
 
Interesting theory. One thing that bugs me about Cinnibar Island is that it's a relatively normal island in RGBYFRLG and then suddenly sprouts a volcano and erupts in GSCHGSS. It would make so much more sense if Cinnibar Island was a volcanic island and Moltres could be caught in the volcano. It's possible that they could've thought of something like this and didn't include it because of time or technical limitations, but then the remakes didn't really do anything with that, FRLG kept it a normal island and HGSS made it so you could Rock Climb around the island, but there was no dungeon or anything.

Maybe they thought putting Moltres and Articuno too close together was a bad idea? The only thing that would really bother me in that respect is that Zapdos is further away from the other two, but they could simply add a third island for Zapdos on Rt. 19.

To be fair, Cinnabar is most likely the peak of an underwater volcano that has been sealed over by its own dried magma. IMO, what is most disconcerting is that they don't mention that everyone got out safely before the explosion, since Pokémon usually goes out of their way to make kids feel better.
 
Interesting theory. One thing that bugs me about Cinnibar Island is that it's a relatively normal island in RGBYFRLG and then suddenly sprouts a volcano and erupts in GSCHGSS. It would make so much more sense if Cinnibar Island was a volcanic island and Moltres could be caught in the volcano. It's possible that they could've thought of something like this and didn't include it because of time or technical limitations, but then the remakes didn't really do anything with that, FRLG kept it a normal island and HGSS made it so you could Rock Climb around the island, but there was no dungeon or anything.

Maybe they thought putting Moltres and Articuno too close together was a bad idea? The only thing that would really bother me in that respect is that Zapdos is further away from the other two, but they could simply add a third island for Zapdos on Rt. 19.

To be fair, Cinnabar is most likely the peak of an underwater volcano that has been sealed over by its own dried magma. IMO, what is most disconcerting is that they don't mention that everyone got out safely before the explosion, since Pokémon usually goes out of their way to make kids feel better.
GSC came out in a time when Farfetch'd was a food.
 
Please note: The thread is from 9 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
Back
Top Bottom