Pokemon Stars Discussion Thread (Speculation)

[Boss1708]

Game Freak were in no way "trolling" the fandom when they registered the domain for Pokemon Grey. They did it to make sure the name won't get used in a fangame. Same when they register Delta Emerald, Water Blue, Brown, etc. Thwy are not trying to tease or troll the fandom.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Maybe this is for Gen VIII?

Yeah, I'm thinking the increase in staff is for 8th gen. They're going to need a hell of a lot more resources to develop a Switch game seeing as it's in HD and capable of console scale games, a Switch Pokemon game is going to require a lot more manpower to develop.

 

[IncineROAR]

If they do develop a game for the Switch, I really hope the game has more open world to explore and a better postgame.

 

[Esserise]

Zeroing in on Piplup and Lucario seems like missing the headline, if you ask me. It's a movie set in Kanto, to feature Kantonian characters and mostly Kantonian Pokémon, and the starring Pokémon is from Johto.

If Sinnoh remakes were next, there's no reason why they couldn't just make a standard Alola movie featuring Marshadow and Solgaleo/Lunala, and just throw in a couple of Sinnoh Pokémon to foreshadow it. But instead we get this Kanto-focused reboot. Why Kanto? And then you have the conspicuous absence of Brock and Misty. Ash is almost certainly going to battle them as a part of his Gym challenge, and yet they've given him two new companions. This would make sense if for some~ reason, Brock and Misty have new designs that they're not ready to show off yet...

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Eh. I would say that DPPt is part of the Megaverse because, from DPPt on, you have a cohesive timeline with each non-remake referencing events in the prior (with DPPt being the start of the timeline). You have to remember that, in X and Y, Infinity Energy is a recent discovery for much of the world, while in ORAS it's been around long enough to have been utilized in technology for years.

So, I would say that entire infographic is useful only from an external look at the evolving storyline of the Pokemon series. In part because it fails to grasp the basic difference between "recent discovery" and "existed for years."

I could also go on about how that graph is confusing timelines, dimensions, and periods of history.

Definitely not, DPPt take place after RSE and therefore if they took place after ORAS, they'd have pretty good knowledge of Megas, not to mention that Cynthia has a Mega Garchomp and Lucario in her encounters in SM.

They're mainly part of the Advancedverse due to the fact that:

-Hoenn is mentioned many times in the game.
-They take place alongside HGSS, which takes place three years after FRLG, which takes place at the same time as RSE.
-Cynthia shows up in BW and BW2 (as do all other champions in BW2) despite NONE of them using Megas, despite BW2 being CONFIRMED to take place alongside XY.

The timelines go like this:

Advancedverse: RSE/FRLG -3 years-> DPPl/HGSS -estimate 4 year gap-> BW -2 years-> BW2/non-Megaverse XY

Megaverse: ORAS/Origins(Hypothetical Kanto remakes) -3 years-> Sinnoh Remakes/Johto Remakes -estimate 4 year gap-> Unova remakes -2 years-> Unova2 remakes/XY -2 years-> SM

SM are confirmed to take place two years after XY, because Grimsley was mentioned to be two years older, and it is confirmed that his last appearance in BW2 takes place alongside XY.

As you can see, clearly DPPl are NOT in the Megaverse, because in BW2 nobody uses Megas despite them being pretty common among champion-level trainers, in ORAS, Steven used Mega Metagross, in Origins, Red used Mega Charizard X. In BW2, no Mega Metagross, despite you claiming DPPl are in the Megaverse, and BW and BW2 are definitely taking place right after DPPl, specifically Platinum, as Cynthia mentions the events of the distortion world taking place. By SM, Cynthia, Grimsley, Red, and Blue are all shown to possess Megas, how can Red have Charizard X in Origins, no Mega in HGSS (which takes place alongside DPPl) or in BW2, but then have Charizard X, among other starter Megas, in SM?

It's not even been a debate of what universe DPPl take place in until you somehow justified that it does, the image I shared is basically the general consensus (prior to the release of SM) of how the universes are split, ORAS and SM especially confirm this thanks to Zinnia and Anabel both referencing RSE Hoenn.

Basically, we know Hoenn and Kanto take place alongside each other, and we also know that Sinnoh and Johto take place alongside each other, there is no DIRECT connection from Sinnoh to Kanto or Hoenn (aside from some references, like the kid in front of Sinnoh's Battle Tower saying there's an identical one Hoenn), but we do know that Johto takes place three years after Kanto, so that ties it all in, the only gap never disclosed is from Sinnoh/Johto to Unova1, but a Team Rocket Grunt from the Johto games now is married and has a child capable of speech, estimates have been 4-6 years. We do know it takes place after thanks to Cynthia and Lady Caitlin as well as Looker appearing. BW2 obviously takes place, as by then Red and Blue are very famous trainers, as observed in their intros into the PWT.

It's worth noting that it wasn't always the intention to have separate multiverses.

A scenario writer at Gamefreak and a big part of the Pokemon games since Gold and Silver published this timeline prior to ORAS coming out:

This implies that XY marked the discovery of Mega Evolution, however, ORAS, thanks to Zinnia, and then again Anabel in SM, officially acknowledged a universe split, ORAS basically retconned what XY tried to tell us which was that Mega Evolution was brand new, ORAS said "nah nevermind, it's not "brand new" because we have it in Hoenn."

This timeline does still work though, you just have to account for what universe everything takes place in. He also confirmed the gap between Hoenn/Kanto and Johto/Sinnoh, as well as that those two pairings do indeed take place at the same time.

So like I said,

Megaverse: ORAS/Origins(Hypothetical Kanto remakes) -3 years-> Sinnoh Remakes/Johto Remakes -estimate 4 year gap-> Unova remakes -2 years-> Unova2 remakes/XY -2 years-> SM

If you want to scour for more information on such topics, I have a thread specifically on this kind of stuff.

 

[Ereshkigal]

Definitely not, DPPt take place after RSE and therefore if they took place after ORAS, they'd have pretty good knowledge of Megas, not to mention that Cynthia has a Mega Garchomp and Lucario in her encounters in SM.

They're mainly part of the Advancedverse due to the fact that:

-Hoenn is mentioned many times in the game.
-They take place alongside HGSS, which takes place three years after FRLG, which takes place at the same time as RSE.
-Cynthia shows up in BW and BW2 (as do all other champions in BW2) despite NONE of them using Megas, despite BW2 being CONFIRMED to take place alongside XY.

The timelines go like this:

Advancedverse: RSE/FRLG -3 years-> DPPl/HGSS -estimate 4 year gap-> BW -2 years-> BW2/non-Megaverse XY

Megaverse: ORAS/Origins(Hypothetical Kanto remakes) -3 years-> Sinnoh Remakes/Johto Remakes -estimate 4 year gap-> Unova remakes -2 years-> Unova2 remakes/XY -2 years-> SM

SM are confirmed to take place two years after XY, because Grimsley was mentioned to be two years older, and it is confirmed that his last appearance in BW2 takes place alongside XY.

As you can see, clearly DPPl are NOT in the Megaverse, because in BW2 nobody uses Megas despite them being pretty common among champion-level trainers, in ORAS, Steven used Mega Metagross, in Origins, Red used Mega Charizard X. In BW2, no Mega Metagross, despite you claiming DPPl are in the Megaverse, and BW and BW2 are definitely taking place right after DPPl, specifically Platinum, as Cynthia mentions the events of the distortion world taking place. By SM, Cynthia, Grimsley, Red, and Blue are all shown to possess Megas, how can Red have Charizard X in Origins, no Mega in HGSS (which takes place alongside DPPl) or in BW2, but then have Charizard X, among other starter Megas, in SM?

It's not even been a debate of what universe DPPl take place in until you somehow justified that it does, the image I shared is basically the general consensus (prior to the release of SM) of how the universes are split, ORAS and SM especially confirm this thanks to Zinnia and Anabel both referencing RSE Hoenn.

Basically, we know Hoenn and Kanto take place alongside each other, and we also know that Sinnoh and Johto take place alongside each other, there is no DIRECT connection from Sinnoh to Kanto or Hoenn (aside from some references, like the kid in front of Sinnoh's Battle Tower saying there's an identical one Hoenn), but we do know that Johto takes place three years after Kanto, so that ties it all in, the only gap never disclosed is from Sinnoh/Johto to Unova1, but a Team Rocket Grunt from the Johto games now is married and has a child capable of speech, estimates have been 4-6 years. We do know it takes place after thanks to Cynthia and Lady Caitlin as well as Looker appearing. BW2 obviously takes place, as by then Red and Blue are very famous trainers, as observed in their intros into the PWT.

Okay, first, to dispel a common myth: There is nothing that states that two timelines have to be in sync. One can lag behind another, allowing for events that happen the second timeline to be happening parallel to later events in the first timeline. The idea that all timelines happen in parallel is an unfounded assumption based simply on the idea of trying to avoid too much complication. So there is absolutely nothing that states that RSE and ORAS must happen in parallel, or that any of the remakes must happen in parallel to the originals.

So just because FRLG is parallel to RSE does not mean that Red and Blue are parallel to FRLG or RSE.

Cynthia is the regional Champion from DPPt, and Black and White and their sequels take place after DPPt. She specifically references events in DPPt when you meet her in Black and White. X and Y, the game where Megas were discovered, has not happened yet; she doesn't have Megas because she doesn't know they exist yet. The ORAS timeline, she already would, but Black and White are not part of the ORAS timeline. In the X and Y timeline, Infinity Energy is not yet commonly utilized and Mega Evolutions have literally just been discovered, so naturally someone living in an entirely different region during that sequence of events is not going to have access to them... just like how people on Earth mostly didn't have access to vaccines immediately after they were discovered.

And your timeline concept is directly disproven by the games themselves. In X and Y, Mega evolutions are specifically established as having never been seen before outside of Kalos, Looker drops references to Black and White, there is an entirely different Looker in ORAS who shows up with a memory issue not shared by the Looker in X and Y or Sun and Moon (in Sun and Moon, it's Anabel who has that issue, establishing that the timeline Sun and Moon is part of is different from the ORAS timeline), Blue in Sun and Moon directly references either Red and Blue or FRLG (I'm not certain which) and establishes the one he's referencing is part of that timeline (he also uses some of the same lines from B2W2), ORAS establishes that Infinity Energy has been known about and harvested for years despite X and Y stating it's a brand-new discovery, and so on.

The general consensus you claim is one I have not even encountered on here before you posted it (and that's after talking to Eseserise on this topic), and one that even the games themselves outright contradict. Plus, no one has brought it up when I've talked about this before.

And to answer your question as to Origins: That's simple. Origins is a different timeline from both ORAS and RSE. It's one of the anime/manga timelines. I think the Pokemon franchise has about an dozen timelines, give or take a couple? It's hard to keep track of how many. But, yeah, don't bring the anime or manga into this unless you're prepared for madness.

Also, Anabel doesn't reference RSE Hoenn. She references having once fought in a tower, but it's established in Sun and Moon that she was the protector of a tower. In Emerald, protecting that tower was not anything close to her job; she was basically an administrator that you fought regularly.

So, you're right that it was never a matter of debate what universe DPPt was in... but until you brought it up, everyone I'd talked with on here had accepted it was the same timeline as Sun and Moon.

Also, a universe split doesn't mean that ORAS retconned X and Y. It would only be a retcon if X and Y existed in the same universe as ORAS; if they are different universes, no retcon.

Edit: The above is overridden by the following

Your own posted timeline quote makes it clear that X and Y are part of the same timeline as B2W2. Did you happen to notice what games they left out? That's a single, cohesive timeline. That's pretty much conclusive evidence that your theory is wrong.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Okay, first, to dispel a common myth: There is nothing that states that two timelines have to be in sync. One can lag behind another, allowing for events that happen the second timeline to be happening parallel to later events in the first timeline. The idea that all timelines happen in parallel is an unfounded assumption based simply on the idea of trying to avoid too much complication. So there is absolutely nothing that states that RSE and ORAS must happen in parallel, or that any of the remakes must happen in parallel to the originals.

So just because FRLG is parallel to RSE does not mean that Red and Blue are parallel to FRLG or RSE.

Cynthia is the regional Champion from DPPt, and Black and White and their sequels take place after DPPt. She specifically references events in DPPt when you meet her in Black and White. X and Y, the game where Megas were discovered, has not happened yet; she doesn't have Megas because she doesn't know they exist yet. The ORAS timeline, she already would, but Black and White are not part of the ORAS timeline. In the X and Y timeline, Infinity Energy is not yet commonly utilized and Mega Evolutions have literally just been discovered, so naturally someone living in an entirely different region during that sequence of events is not going to have access to them... just like how people on Earth mostly didn't have access to vaccines immediately after they were discovered.

And your timeline concept is directly disproven by the games themselves. In X and Y, Mega evolutions are specifically established as having never been seen before outside of Kalos, Looker drops references to Black and White, there is an entirely different Looker in ORAS who shows up with a memory issue not shared by the Looker in X and Y or Sun and Moon (in Sun and Moon, it's Anabel who has that issue, establishing that the timeline Sun and Moon is part of is different from the ORAS timeline), Blue in Sun and Moon directly references either Red and Blue or FRLG (I'm not certain which) and establishes the one he's referencing is part of that timeline (he also uses some of the same lines from B2W2), ORAS establishes that Infinity Energy has been known about and harvested for years despite X and Y stating it's a brand-new discovery, and so on.

The general consensus you claim is one I have not even encountered on here before you posted it (and that's after talking to Eseserise on this topic), and one that even the games themselves outright contradict. Plus, no one has brought it up when I've talked about this before.

And to answer your question as to Origins: That's simple. Origins is a different timeline from both ORAS and RSE. It's one of the anime/manga timelines. I think the Pokemon franchise has about an dozen timelines, give or take a couple? It's hard to keep track of how many. But, yeah, don't bring the anime or manga into this unless you're prepared for madness.

Also, Anabel doesn't reference RSE Hoenn. She references having once fought in a tower, but it's established in Sun and Moon that she was the protector of a tower. In Emerald, protecting that tower was not anything close to her job; she was basically an administrator that you fought regularly.

So, you're right that it was never a matter of debate what universe DPPt was in... but until you brought it up, everyone I'd talked with on here had accepted it was the same timeline as Sun and Moon.

Also, a universe split doesn't mean that ORAS retconned X and Y. It would only be a retcon if X and Y existed in the same universe as ORAS; if they are different universes, no retcon. Your own posted timeline quote makes it clear that X and Y are part of the same timeline as B2W2.

She WAS the protector of a tower, though, that's what being a Frontier Brain includes, she's responsible for the tower's functioning and well being, therefore she's its protector. Again, there has been absolutely no debate that SM Anabel is Emerald Anabel, her theme is literally a copy & paste from Emerald to EMPHASIZE this fact, even though an updated Frontier Brain theme was included in ORAS, so why not use that one instead of the Emerald one? Simple, because she's LITERALLY the Anabel from Emerald, this is no dispute, also, as far as ORAS Looker, I've covered that already, in the thread I suggested you take a look at, it was one of the most confusing points about the multiverse theory and the mysterious Ultra Wormholes, ORAS Looker isn't XY/SM Looker or DPPl/BW Looker, he's RBY Looker.

Also, Origins IS based on the games, every episode of Origins opens up and closes with in-game menus, and the battle previews are similar to the start of battles in the normal games. Origins, and by extension, Generations, are there way of portraying in-game events without making games for these in-game events. Here's what we do know from Origins and Generations:

-Red caught 150 Pokemon
-Red can use Mega Charizard X
-Looker was on the trail of Giovanni through the stories of Kanto and Johto. He never appears in Hoenn, which is quite the coincidence considering it is the exact region another Looker supposedly fell out of an Ultra Wormhole. The Megaverse's rightful Looker appears again through the Sinnoh and Unova stories.
-Red eventually travels every known region, as shown in Generations scenes.

Everyone knows that the manga and anime are entirely separate from the game universes, but this is NOT the case for Origins and Generations, they're literal animated adaptations to amplify and show off in-game events, that's also not a dispute, it's a fact. Everything in Generations is based on, at least loosely, on in-game events, including showing some behind the scenes stuff that you don't encounter as the player, such as Looker encountering Silver and questioning him on Giovanni.

Back to Looker, you have to keep in mind that there ARE three parallel universes, the Classicverse, the Advancedverse, and the Megaverse.

ORAS Looker is RBY's Looker, who was unnamed at the time, but on the S.S. Anne in the Kanto games, there is a global police agent on the trail of Team Rocket, what did Generations show us from behind the scenes (from the player character's perspective)? Looker being on the trail of Team Rocket through the duration of the telling of Kanto's and Johto's stories. This essentially confirms that the global police agent is Looker.

Here's what happened, Looker was on the S.S. Anne in the Classicverse. The S.S. Anne most likely was traveling toward Johto for Looker to make his stop, at some point, an Ultra Wormhole caught him and transported him to ORAS and Hoenn, and being that Hoenn and Johto are in close proximity, it's not farfetched to thing he'd wash up on the Battle Resort.

ORAS Looker = RBY Looker.

So the Megaverse gained a Looker, this is why Looker can continue his appearances in the Advancedverse, he's untouched by the Ultra Beasts and their Wormholes.

The Classicverse lost their Looker.

The Advancedverse still has their Looker.

The Megaverse has both its own and Classicverse's Looker.

Claiming that Origins and Generations aren't canon to the games is outright simple-minded for somewhat claiming we're trying to keep the timeline as simple as possible by not overcomplicating things.

Also, you obviously didn't read what I put under the timeline, I said that at some point, XY wasn't intended to be a separate timeline, but ORAS introduced this concept and SM reinforced it.

So saying that XY take place in the same parallel universe as BW2 is false, it doesn't, it was probably going to which is why Mega Evolution seems like a new thing, but here's the MAIN reason XY CANNOT take place in the same universe as BW2.

Zinnia explicitly states that the other Hoenn her clan has observed over generations exists in a universe where the war from 3,000 years ago NEVER HAPPENED. If it happened in XY, but not in the continuity that I call the Advancedverse, XY for that one singular reason cannot exist in the same universe as BW2. Zinnia clearly is mentioning RSE, just as Anabel does in SM.

Zinnia states that the Hoenn her clan observes:
-doesn't contain Mega Evolution
-doesn't contain as advanced technology to stop an asteroid impact (lack of Infinity Energy because of the next point)
-the war 3,000 years ago never happened, AZ never built the Ultimate Weapon, therefore Infinity Energy was never created/discovered.

RSE fit all three points.

Zinnia implies that they're observing a Hoenn in a parallel universe, further reinforcing that RSE and ORAS take place alongside each other but in parallel universes, and many including myself believe this to be the case for all regions. Remember, RBY -> GSC is also a universe, a universe that was probably destroyed by Missingno. Since the gap from RBY -> GSC is the same as that of FRLG -> HGSS, and if RSE and ORAS take place in the same time slot of two parallel universes, why can this not be the case for all games?

Also, Anabel dropped into the Megaverse ten years prior to the events of SM, using my timeline build of:

Kanto/Hoenn -3 years-> Johto/Sinnoh -5 years-> Unova1 -2 years-> Unova2/Kalos -2 years-> Alola

Makes the entire timeline of all the game's stories 12 years. This makes perfect sense since Anabel could've still been the Frontier Brain for a couple years, but the most favorable thing is that the timeline isn't under ten years, further supporting that each universe's events coincide with the others.

I almost wanted to believe XY could exist in the Advancedverse's continuity in the event that Mega Evolution is freshly discovered, while also existing in the Megaverse where it isn't freshly discovered, but as I said, Zinnia said the Advancedverse never had the war and the necessary events required to basically create Mega Evolution, so that theory is debunked. That also debunks you claiming Cynthia only gains access to Megas after the events of XY, when the events of XY cannot happen with the events of DPPl and BW2.

I've basically debunked your whole theory entirely based on what Zinnia has told us. The timeline I posted also properly reads:

RB/RS -> GS/DPPl -> BW -> BW2 -> XY

The reason for this is to allow for the multiversal split in the future if necessary, which he did, his timeline includes three different universe's worth of games, it's used as a general guideline now to track where which events happen respective to all other known game's events. He's not LITERALLY saying they're all the same universe, at least not anymore.

Gamefreak has been, since ORAS, emphasing the fact that other parallel universes exist where Mega Evolution doesn't exist, and although they seem to only refer to the Advancedverse, I still think the Classicverse has SOME relevance, because it's the only way for the Looker in ORAS to exist, since that Looker cannot be DPPl Looker since DPPl take place after RSE in the Advancedverse, this is all assuming Ultra Wormholes act as parallel universe transporters and not literal time transporters, but if they can also transport you through time, than nothing matters and nothing is canon and everything is canon and everyone can exist everywhere at all times, and that's just no fun, there has to be some continuity to it, it makes things more interesting and makes the eventual end story and explanation all the better. I'd rather use logic and reasoning to explain ORAS Looker than to say "oh well he traveled parallel universes AND time and so DPPl -> BW Looker is ORAS Looker".

If you want to disagree with me and headcanon your own timeline, go for it, but I've debunked everything you've said thanks to Zinnia's explanations of RSE Hoenn.

Edit: Also, Esserise basically agreed with me on everything (or I changed some of my past views and agreed with him) on my thread about the multiverse and Ultra Wormholes.

Initially, I thought the timeline gap from Hoenn to Alola was only 10 years, he convinced me it could be 12-13 which I've since adopted as a much more reasonable solution, he also said he attempted to push ORAS ahead of RSE at first but abandoned trying to do that and has accepted that they do in fact take place at the same time across their respective universes. The ONLY disagreement him and I have at this point is that he stated in the Ultra Wormhole thread "DPPl -6 years-> BW" whereas I continue to state "DPPl -5 years-> BW" so as you can see, aside from a pitiful 1 year difference, we're basically on agreement on our timelines, so I don't know what he told you, but he and I basically agreed on everything as far as the timeline goes.

 

[Ereshkigal]

She WAS the protector of a tower, though, that's what being a Frontier Brain includes, she's responsible for the tower's functioning and well being, therefore she's its protector. Again, there has been absolutely no debate that SM Anabel is Emerald Anabel, her theme is literally a copy & paste from Emerald to EMPHASIZE this fact, even though an updated Frontier Brain theme was included in ORAS, so why not use that one instead of the Emerald one? Simple, because she's LITERALLY the Anabel from Emerald, this is no dispute, also, as far as ORAS Looker, I've covered that already, in the thread I suggested you take a look at, it was one of the most confusing points about the multiverse theory and the mysterious Ultra Wormholes, ORAS Looker isn't XY/SM Looker or DPPl/BW Looker, he's RBY Looker.

Also, Origins IS based on the games, every episode of Origins opens up and closes with in-game menus, and the battle previews are similar to the start of battles in the normal games. Origins, and by extension, Generations, are there way of portraying in-game events without making games for these in-game events. Here's what we do know from Origins and Generations:

-Red caught 150 Pokemon
-Red can use Mega Charizard X
-Looker was on the trail of Giovanni through the stories of Kanto and Johto. He never appears in Hoenn, which is quite the coincidence considering it is the exact region another Looker supposedly fell out of an Ultra Wormhole. The Megaverse's rightful Looker appears again through the Sinnoh and Unova stories.
-Red eventually travels every known region, as shown in Generations scenes.

Everyone knows that the manga and anime are entirely separate from the game universes, but this is NOT the case for Origins and Generations, they're literal animated adaptations to amplify and show off in-game events, that's also not a dispute, it's a fact. Everything in Generations is based on, at least loosely, on in-game events, including showing some behind the scenes stuff that you don't encounter as the player, such as Looker encountering Silver and questioning him on Giovanni.

Back to Looker, you have to keep in mind that there ARE three parallel universes, the Classicverse, the Advancedverse, and the Megaverse.

ORAS Looker is RBY's Looker, who was unnamed at the time, but on the S.S. Anne in the Kanto games, there is a global police agent on the trail of Team Rocket, what did Generations show us from behind the scenes (from the player character's perspective)? Looker being on the trail of Team Rocket through the duration of the telling of Kanto's and Johto's stories. This essentially confirms that the global police agent is Looker.

Here's what happened, Looker was on the S.S. Anne in the Classicverse. The S.S. Anne most likely was traveling toward Johto for Looker to make his stop, at some point, an Ultra Wormhole caught him and transported him to ORAS and Hoenn, and being that Hoenn and Johto are in close proximity, it's not farfetched to thing he'd wash up on the Battle Resort.

ORAS Looker = RBY Looker.

So the Megaverse gained a Looker, this is why Looker can continue his appearances in the Advancedverse, he's untouched by the Ultra Beasts and their Wormholes.

The Classicverse lost their Looker.

The Advancedverse still has their Looker.

The Megaverse has both its own and Classicverse's Looker.

Claiming that Origins and Generations aren't canon to the games is outright simple-minded for somewhat claiming we're trying to keep the timeline as simple as possible by not overcomplicating things.

Also, you obviously didn't read what I put under the timeline, I said that at some point, XY wasn't intended to be a separate timeline, but ORAS introduced this concept and SM reinforced it.

So saying that XY take place in the same parallel universe as BW2 is false, it doesn't, it was probably going to which is why Mega Evolution seems like a new thing, but here's the MAIN reason XY CANNOT take place in the same universe as BW2.

Zinnia explicitly states that the other Hoenn her clan has observed over generations exists in a universe where the war from 3,000 years ago NEVER HAPPENED. If it happened in XY, but not in the continuity that I call the Advancedverse, XY for that one singular reason cannot exist in the same universe as BW2. Zinnia clearly is mentioning RSE, just as Anabel does in SM.

Zinnia states that the Hoenn her clan observes:
-doesn't contain Mega Evolution
-doesn't contain as advanced technology to stop an asteroid impact (lack of Infinity Energy because of the next point)
-the war 3,000 years ago never happened, AZ never built the Ultimate Weapon, therefore Infinity Energy was never created/discovered.

RSE fit all three points.

Zinnia implies that they're observing a Hoenn in a parallel universe, further reinforcing that RSE and ORAS take place alongside each other but in parallel universes, and many including myself believe this to be the case for all regions. Remember, RBY -> GSC is also a universe, a universe that was probably destroyed by Missingno. Since the gap from RBY -> GSC is the same as that of FRLG -> HGSS, and if RSE and ORAS take place in the same time slot of two parallel universes, why can this not be the case for all games?

Also, Anabel dropped into the Megaverse ten years prior to the events of SM, using my timeline build of:

Kanto/Hoenn -3 years-> Johto/Sinnoh -5 years-> Unova1 -2 years-> Unova2/Kalos -2 years-> Alola

Makes the entire timeline of all the game's stories 12 years. This makes perfect sense since Anabel could've still been the Frontier Brain for a couple years, but the most favorable thing is that the timeline isn't under ten years, further supporting that each universe's events coincide with the others.

I almost wanted to believe XY could exist in the Advancedverse's continuity in the event that Mega Evolution is freshly discovered, while also existing in the Megaverse where it isn't freshly discovered, but as I said, Zinnia said the Advancedverse never had the war and the necessary events required to basically create Mega Evolution, so that theory is debunked. That also debunks you claiming Cynthia only gains access to Megas after the events of XY, when the events of XY cannot happen with the events of DPPl and BW2.

I've basically debunked your whole theory entirely based on what Zinnia has told us. The timeline I posted also properly reads:

RB/RS -> GS/DPPl -> BW -> BW2 -> XY

The reason for this is to allow for the multiversal split in the future if necessary, which he did, his timeline includes three different universe's worth of games, it's used as a general guideline now to track where which events happen respective to all other known game's events. He's not LITERALLY saying they're all the same universe, at least not anymore.

Gamefreak has been, since ORAS, emphasing the fact that other parallel universes exist where Mega Evolution doesn't exist, and although they seem to only refer to the Advancedverse, I still think the Classicverse has SOME relevance, because it's the only way for the Looker in ORAS to exist, since that Looker cannot be DPPl Looker since DPPl take place after RSE in the Advancedverse, this is all assuming Ultra Wormholes act as parallel universe transporters and not literal time transporters, but if they can also transport you through time, than nothing matters and nothing is canon and everything is canon and everyone can exist everywhere at all times, and that's just no fun, there has to be some continuity to it, it makes things more interesting and makes the eventual end story and explanation all the better. I'd rather use logic and reasoning to explain ORAS Looker than to say "oh well he traveled parallel universes AND time and so DPPl -> BW Looker is ORAS Looker".

If you want to disagree with me and headcanon your own timeline, go for it, but I've debunked everything you've said thanks to Zinnia's explanations of RSE Hoenn.

Edit: Also, Esserise basically agreed with me on everything (or I changed some of my past views and agreed with him) on my thread about the multiverse and Ultra Wormholes.

Initially, I thought the timeline gap from Hoenn to Alola was only 10 years, he convinced me it could be 12-13 which I've since adopted as a much more reasonable solution, he also said he attempted to push ORAS ahead of RSE at first but abandoned trying to do that and has accepted that they do in fact take place at the same time across their respective universes. The ONLY disagreement him and I have at this point is that he stated in the Ultra Wormhole thread "DPPl -6 years-> BW" whereas I continue to state "DPPl -5 years-> BW" so as you can see, aside from a pitiful 1 year difference, we're basically on agreement on our timelines, so I don't know what he told you, but he and I basically agreed on everything as far as the timeline goes.

Okay, first, where is it established that the Frontier Brain/Salon Maiden in the time of RSE is the protector of the tower? That is nowhere in the games.

Secondly, there is no RBY Looker. Looker was introduced in Platinum. You've invented a character who didn't exist.

Yes, Origins is based on the games. So is the main anime show. But being based on the games does not make them canon for the games. So, I don't care what similarities they have; unless GF states Origin is game-canon, it's a different timeline.

Also, guess what? You're using the words of a character from another timeline to try to justify the main timeline. Here is the timeline quote from GF:

Notice they don't include Red and Blue or Gold and Silver? And ORAS itself outright hints it is a different dimension. Unless you have some official word, this timeline is the official prime timeline up to X and Y. Sun and Moon is easy enough to place in the prime timeline just from contextual clues.

At this point, the evidence is pretty clear.

 

[TheMonster6893]

Secondly, there is no RBY Looker. Looker was introduced in Platinum. You've invented a character who didn't exist.

Not that it's anything too concrete, but to be fair there is a character in RBY that fits the description of Looker. On the SS Ann there's an agent of the "Global Police" or "International Police" that's investigating Team Rocket. Many people have theorized that the character in question was a prototype for what would eventually become Looker in Platinum. Just food for thought lol

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Okay, first, where is it established that the Frontier Brain/Salon Maiden in the time of RSE is the protector of the tower? That is nowhere in the games.

Secondly, there is no RBY Looker. Looker was introduced in Platinum. You've invented a character who didn't exist.

Yes, Origins is based on the games. So is the main anime show. But being based on the games does not make them canon for the games. So, I don't care what similarities they have; unless GF states Origin is game-canon, it's a different timeline.

Also, guess what? You're using the words of a character from another timeline to try to justify the main timeline. Here is the timeline quote you used:

Notice they don't include Red and Blue or Gold and Silver? And ORAS itself outright hints it is a different dimension. Unless you have some official word, this timeline is the official prime timeline up to X and Y. Sun and Moon is easy enough to place in the prime timeline just from contextual clues.

And right now, I've debunked what you've said using the fact you're outright making things up, mixing in things that are not game canon to back game canon, and the official timeline from GF that you handily provided in your prior post.

You realize that Japanese stuff there symbolizes RB and GS right?

Also, I'm not making ANYTHING up. Generations shows a Looker on the trail of Team Rocket, a police agent in RBY (and FRLG) was on the trail of Team Rocket, this is quite obviously a reference to the police agent on the S.S. Anne.

Also, you still haven't de-debunked the fact that XY CANNOT exist in the same universe as all previous games, because those games exist in a universe where the war doesn't happen.

Honestly though, the entire timeline can be pieced together with simple "if, then" statements as well as using the official timeline as evidence.

If FRLG takes place three years prior to HGSS, and HGSS takes place at the same time as DPPl, then DPPl takes place three years after RSE.

If BW contains a Cynthia recalling the events of Platinum, a Lady Caitlin who mentions being in the Battle Castle, and a not very good english speaking Team Rocket Grunt from HGSS, then BW takes place after HGSS and Platinum.

If BW2 takes place after BW, and BW takes place after HGSS and Platinum, and HGSS takes place three years after FRLG, then BW2 and RSE exist in the same universe.

If RSE CANNOT exist in the same universe as XY because Zinnia states the war never happened in RSE's universe, by extension of every single fact above this line, XY CANNOT take place in the same universe as BW and BW2, why is this so hard to understand? Using simple facts I've deduced that it's not possible, not as of ORAS, it may have been possible as of XY, but ORAS rewrote any possible continuity between games coming before XY and games coming after, I've used factual information as well as a canon timeline as of XY to deduce that RSE take place in the same universe as BW2, and they were initially intended to take place in the same universe as XY, but as of ORAS, XY was retconned out of existence in RSE's universe, and placed in ORAS's instead, again, it's not a hard concept to understand and most of the fandom has accepted this as fact.

Not that it's anything too concrete, but to be fair there is a character in RBY that fits the description of Looker. On the SS Ann there's an agent of the "Global Police" or "International Police" that's investigating Team Rocket. Many people have theorized that the character in question was a prototype for what would eventually become Looker in Platinum. Just food for thought lol

In the YouTube "Pokemon Generations" shorts, which are based entirely on the events of all the games, Looker is shown to be on the trail of Team Rocket, further solidifying this coincidental character and implying that he was, in the end, intended to be the same character as Looker. I've also provided evidence to push a theory that RBY Looker is ORAS Looker in the Ultra Wormhole thread of mine.

 

[Ereshkigal]

Not that it's anything too concrete, but to be fair there is a character in RBY that fits the description of Looker. On the SS Ann there's an agent of the "Global Police" or "International Police" that's investigating Team Rocket. Many people have theorized that the character in question was a prototype for what would eventually become Looker in Platinum. Just food for thought lol

I know, but I ignored it because there are many characters in the games who look the same. It's a limitation of the technology.

You realize that Japanese stuff there symbolizes RB and GS right?

I don't read Japanese, so I'll concede the point.

Also, I'm not making ANYTHING up. Generations shows a Looker on the trail of Team Rocket, a police agent in RBY (and FRLG) was on the trail of Team Rocket, this is quite obviously a reference to the police agent on the S.S. Anne.

Yes, you are. And now, you're bringing in more anime to justify your fanon.

Here, check the Bulbapedia page on Looker. Notice the first game he's mentioned in?

And the International Police are an organization. Looker isn't their only employee. So not every agent representing them is going to be Looker.

Also, you still haven't de-debunked the fact that XY CANNOT exist in the same universe as all previous games, because those games exist in a universe where the war doesn't happen.

So now you're arguing that the timeline tweet you provided is wrong? In essence, that your entire argument is based on faulty evidence?

The tweet itself debunks that. Or you are arguing that the evidence you provided is faulty and proves your argument is flawed. Pick one. You can't have both.

Honestly though, the entire timeline can be pieced together with simple "if, then" statements as well as using the official timeline as evidence.

If FRLG takes place three years prior to HGSS, and HGSS takes place at the same time as DPPl, then DPPl takes place three years after RSE.

If BW contains a Cynthia recalling the events of Platinum, a Lady Caitlin who mentions being in the Battle Castle, and a not very good english speaking Team Rocket Grunt from HGSS, then BW takes place after HGSS and Platinum.

If BW2 takes place after BW, and BW takes place after HGSS and Platinum, and HGSS takes place three years after FRLG, then BW2 and RSE exist in the same universe.

If RSE CANNOT exist in the same universe as XY because Zinnia states the war never happened in RSE's universe, by extension of every single fact above this line, XY CANNOT take place in the same universe as BW and BW2, why is this so hard to understand? Using simple facts I've deduced that it's not possible, not as of ORAS, it may have been possible as of XY, but ORAS rewrote any possible continuity between games coming before XY and games coming after, I've used factual information as well as a canon timeline as of XY to deduce that RSE take place in the same universe as BW2, and they were initially intended to take place in the same universe as XY, but as of ORAS, XY was retconned out of existence in RSE's universe, and placed in ORAS's instead, again, it's not a hard concept to understand and most of the fandom has accepted this as fact.

And if Zinnia is not speaking of the RSE timeline? Or if Zinnia is just wrong? Because let's not forget that the stated timeline of the main series puts X and Y within the same sequence as RSE.

In the YouTube "Pokemon Generations" shorts, which are based entirely on the events of all the games, Looker is shown to be on the trail of Team Rocket, further solidifying this coincidental character and implying that he was, in the end, intended to be the same character as Looker. I've also provided evidence to push a theory that RBY Looker is ORAS Looker in the Ultra Wormhole thread of mine.

Is Pokemon Generations a game? No? Then it's not evidence of game canon and is therefore irrelevant.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I know, but I ignored it because there are many characters in the games who look the same. It's a limitation of the technology.



I don't read Japanese, so I'll concede the point.



Yes, you are. And now, you're bringing in more anime to justify your fanon.

Here, check the Bulbapedia page on Looker. Notice the first game he's mentioned in?

And, hey, there International Police are an organization. Looker isn't their only employee. So not every agent representing them is going to be Looker.



So now you're arguing that the timeline tweet you provided is wrong? In essence, that your entire argument is based on faulty evidence?

The tweet itself debunks that. Or you are arguing that the evidence you provided is faulty and proves your argument is flawed. Pick one. You can't have both.



And if Zinnia is not speaking of the RSE timeline? Or if Zinnia is just wrong? Because let's not forget that the stated timeline of the main series puts X and Y within the same sequence as RSE.



Is Pokemon Generations a game? No? Then it's not evidence of game canon and is therefore irrelevant.

You are so dense...

Origins and Generations are animated tellings of in-game events, they're just as canon as any games. Are you going to call the BW2 animated trailer not canon because it's "anime"?



This is LITERALLY an animated telling of the exact events of BW2, just as Origins is for a Megaverse Kanto, and Generations is for a Megaverse Kanto to Kalos.

It's not like the real anime that very loosely follows the events of the games, when not really. Ash is the anime counterpart to Red, Origins and Generations follow a Red that is exactly identical to game Red, as well as Ethan who is identical to Ethan in Johto, etc.

It's not like the standard anime, that's an entire different continuity, Origins and Generations are EXACTLY in-game events.

And these tellings include a Looker who is on Team Rocket's trail, which is something we've never seen before, and shouldn't see if Looker's true first appearance is Platinum. If that was the case, why include him in the Kanto and Johto arcs? Because he was always there, we just never saw him do his thing, a lot of things happen outside of the players perspective, Looker being on the trail of Team Rocket is just one of these things, but one of the hints that we do have of this is the secret police agent on the S.S. Anne.

Also, the tweet is by no means false, unless you want to read it as one universe, like I said, up to XY, there was never meant to be a multiverse in effect, but as of ORAS, XY was, like I said, retconned into a new universe, the Megaverse, where the war 3,000 years ago happened, and all games prior to that were retconned into the Advancedverse, a universe where this war didn't happen. What makes you think Zinnia isn't talking about RSE, or that she's wrong? Why would Gamefreak implement Zinnia and Anabel and have absolutely no relevance to the multiverse theory, it'd be a waste of program, all the dialogue and reference are clear points to RSE's Hoenn.

Nowhere in that tweet does he say "all these games are one universe" he's merely laying out a timeline for the events of all the games, do you know the difference between a timeline and a universe?

A timeline is the order the EVENTS of the games take place, a universe is the continuity that each INDIVIDUAL game takes place inside of one.

BW2 takes place at the same TIME as XY, but not necessarily the same UNIVERSE as XY. This is, like I stated in the last 60 posts, IMPOSSIBLE. RSE -> BW2 is easy to prove, but Zinnia literally states that XY cannot be in the same universe as BW2, rather, the events of BW2 probably happen in similar fashion, with major characters and plots revolving around Mega Evolutions and Primal forms, just as ORAS and RSE are the same story, yet different, one has Mega Evolution and a higher level of technological capabilities, one that doesn't have these things. ORAS and RSE take place at the same TIME yet not in the same universe, just like Origins and FRLG both follow Red, they're not the same exact Red, they're taking place at the same TIME but not in the same UNIVERSE.

All that tweet shows us is a diagram of the TIMELINE, not the MULTIVERSE. The tweet therefore can apply to all universes within the multiverse accordingly, if anything, the tweet supports my belief that games like ORAS and RSE take place at the same time, but not in the same universe, you said that the events don't have to parallel, but this tweet says they do, and this tweet is not a multiverse explanation, just a timeline explanation.

I don't think you're learning anything from this, I've spent hours typing all this stuff and you're simply not understanding any of it.

Seriously, you're being so closed-minded about this, you're not taking anything I say into consideration, your last post was literally read like this:

"But you're wrong."

"But what if you're wrong."

"By the way, I think you're wrong."

I'm typing literal essays worth of counterpoints and you dare just spew stuff like "But what if Zinnia's wrong?".

Lmao, this is the worst debate I've ever had.

I don't even think you're being serious anymore, I think you're just TRYING to get on my nerves at this point, which is why I'm done with this conversation, you're not using any logic or evidence to support anything you say and debunk anything I say.

 

[Esserise]

Oh dear.

Eh. I would say that DPPt is part of the Megaverse because, from DPPt on, you have a cohesive timeline with each non-remake referencing events in the prior (with DPPt being the start of the timeline).

Literally every Pokémon game contains a reference of some kind to all preceding games.

The Megaverse was only first mentioned in ORAS and retroactively applied to XY by way of Mega Evolution. That's the only criteria they give us for determining what's a part of the Megaverse - is "Does this game have Mega Evolution or not?" Which is true of XY, ORAS, and SM.

You have to remember that, in X and Y, Infinity Energy is a recent discovery for much of the world, while in ORAS it's been around long enough to have been utilized in technology for years.

"Infinity Energy" is never mentioned in XY, period, because they hadn't formally thought up the concept at the time. XY do discuss the use of Pokémon life energy as a power source for the weapon, but I just needed to get that bit of pedantry out there. That being said, ORAS reiterate that the ultimate weapon was powered with the life energy of Pokémon, and state that Mr. Stone's grandfather was inspired by that to develop Infinity Energy. By associative property, this means that the life energy of Pokémon was first harnessed 3,000 years ago in both ORAS and XY. It's not a new thing in either, ORAS just go into more detail on the subject.

X and Y, the game where Megas were discovered, has not happened yet; she doesn't have Megas because she doesn't know they exist yet. The ORAS timeline, she already would, but Black and White are not part of the ORAS timeline. In the X and Y timeline, Infinity Energy is not yet commonly utilized and Mega Evolutions have literally just been discovered, so naturally someone living in an entirely different region during that sequence of events is not going to have access to them... just like how people on Earth mostly didn't have access to vaccines immediately after they were discovered.

This is not accurate. Despite Sycamore's presumably fourth wall-breaking wording of "a new kind of Evolution" as a description of Mega Evolution, it is not a new discovery in XY. There's an ancient tower in Shalour City that is dedicated to the practice. Sycamore is said to have visited this tower in his younger days. Korrina's ancestor is, in fact, the person who came to Kalos and discovered Mega Evolution alongside his Lucario long ago. Given that Gurkinn is not this same Trainer, that means that Mega Evolution was discovered at least three generations (in the familial sense, not Gen 1, Gen 2, etc.) ago.

And your timeline concept is directly disproven by the games themselves. In X and Y, Mega evolutions are specifically established as having never been seen before outside of Kalos

This isn't a new problem, though. FRLG had eggs despite them being an entirely new discovery in GSC, and given the other lengths that FRLG go to to establish themselves as prequels to GSC (they wouldn't have known at the time if they'd ever have GSC remakes, so while HGSS do patch this issue, that wouldn't have been a factor at the time), sometimes we just have to accept that gameplay overrides story continuity. So FRLG have eggs much earlier than they should, and so too does ORAS invent new Mega lore and have Fairy types earlier than they should.

Plus it's relative. I mean, compared to comic books, the Pokémon games are still masters of continuity even with this.

(in Sun and Moon, it's Anabel who has that issue, establishing that the timeline Sun and Moon is part of is different from the ORAS timeline)

That doesn't rule out ORAS-Looker being a Faller that entered the Megaverse, which I think is the common assumption.

The general consensus you claim is one I have not even encountered on here before you posted it (and that's after talking to Eseserise on this topic)

I find that kind of surprising, because broadly, it's exactly how I'd describe the situation. "Advanceverse" = the GBA and DS games, "Megaverse" = XY, ORAS, and SM.

Also, Anabel doesn't reference RSE Hoenn. She references having once fought in a tower, but it's established in Sun and Moon that she was the protector of a tower. In Emerald, protecting that tower was not anything close to her job; she was basically an administrator that you fought regularly.

Well me, I just read "protected" as a bit of a flowery description. The way people "defend" a title. That said, her memories are scrambled, and Looker is only going off of what limited information she was able to provide. Without the full context of her past, her real occupation could easily have been lost in translation.

Your own posted timeline quote makes it clear that X and Y are part of the same timeline as B2W2. Did you happen to notice what games they left out? That's a single, cohesive timeline. That's pretty much conclusive evidence that your theory is wrong.

To be honest, I think people put way, way too much stock in that tweet. I mean, it's an obscure, now-deleted, casual tweet that's only half in English, and mentions RB and GS instead of FRLG and HGSS. I'm pretty sure the dude is just describing the general sequence of events; like the Kanto story and Hoenn story are contemporaneous, then followed by the Johto and Sinnoh stories, then the first Unova story, and then the Unova and Kalos stories. I don't think he's concerned with the multiple timeline bullshit.

Also, Origins IS based on the games, every episode of Origins opens up and closes with in-game menus, and the battle previews are similar to the start of battles in the normal games. Origins, and by extension, Generations, are there way of portraying in-game events without making games for these in-game events. Here's what we do know from Origins and Generations:

-Red caught 150 Pokemon
-Red can use Mega Charizard X
-Looker was on the trail of Giovanni through the stories of Kanto and Johto. He never appears in Hoenn, which is quite the coincidence considering it is the exact region another Looker supposedly fell out of an Ultra Wormhole. The Megaverse's rightful Looker appears again through the Sinnoh and Unova stories.
-Red eventually travels every known region, as shown in Generations scenes.

Everyone knows that the manga and anime are entirely separate from the game universes, but this is NOT the case for Origins and Generations, they're literal animated adaptations to amplify and show off in-game events, that's also not a dispute, it's a fact. Everything in Generations is based on, at least loosely, on in-game events, including showing some behind the scenes stuff that you don't encounter as the player, such as Looker encountering Silver and questioning him on Giovanni.

Origins and Generations cannot both be contributing to game canon. They contradict each other on the subject of Giovanni. He's a developed character with a much more optimistic (and, frankly, better) ending in Origins. It's incompatible with what we see in Generations (the verbatim HGSS story). Only one can be contributing to game canon, assuming that either of them are to begin with. Also, if Generations is contributing to game canon, then it rewrites a lot. I think of it as just its own little canon. (And I mean, it's not even consistent unto itself. In The Adventure, Red started with a Bulbasaur, but in The Challenger, Blue's Blastoise suggests that Red started with a Charmander.)

Also, since it was mentioned, I personally am not actually a fan of the theory that the Global Police agent on the S.S. Anne was Looker. I get kind of tired of him being the only Interpol guy we ever see.

 

[Soki]

As far as I can read, this timeline discussion has very little to do with Stars, so please take it somewhere else ^^;

 

[Silktree]

Regarding this whole idea that no more mythicals means a two-year generation...

Nonsense. The first three generations worked just fine with a low number of mythicals, and by now we have so many old ones that could simply be given new forms if needed. Let's not forget that the current movie is focusing on Pikachu (which only has a new Z-move) and Ho-Oh (nothing new just yet).

Nothing suggests that Game Freak can handle HD development faster than they did previous generations (even those without any hardware jump!). The current hiring suggests that they're only now starting the Generation VIII development. Porting 3DS games to the Switch is a much different story (and I've said before, I think we're likely getting Kanto sequels for both 3DS and Switch).

 

[Morningstar]

Regarding this whole idea that no more mythicals means a two-year generation...

Nonsense. The first three generations worked just fine with a low number of mythicals, and by now we have so many old ones that could simply be given new forms if needed. Let's not forget that the current movie is focusing on Pikachu (which only has a new Z-move) and Ho-Oh (nothing new just yet).

Yeah there isn't much of a pattern. Esspeicly given the precedent of using pokemon from the next gen in the movies for promotional purposes, as or alongside legendaries:

• Several gen 2 pokes (First Movie)
  
• Latios and Latias (Heroes)
• Lucario (and the Mystery of Mew)
• Manaphy (the Temple of the Sea)
• Zorua and Zoroark (Zoroark Unleashed)
• and Magearna (Volcanion and the Mechanical Marvel)

In fact, Gen 3 got 2 Movies made to promote gen 4, It would stand to reason they could do it again if they want to.

 

[Silktree]

Yes, they could do two movies to promote the next generation in advance. But my bet is that this year's games will add enough new content (probably forms, but an exclusive mythical isn't unthinkable) for the 2018 movie to work with.

It's pretty ridiculous to use a very flawed pattern as evidence of another pattern being broken. Every generation so far had a good reason to span at least 3 years.

 

[Mitchman]

Zeroing in on Piplup and Lucario seems like missing the headline, if you ask me. It's a movie set in Kanto, to feature Kantonian characters and mostly Kantonian Pokémon, and the starring Pokémon is from Johto.

If Sinnoh remakes were next, there's no reason why they couldn't just make a standard Alola movie featuring Marshadow and Solgaleo/Lunala, and just throw in a couple of Sinnoh Pokémon to foreshadow it. But instead we get this Kanto-focused reboot. Why Kanto? And then you have the conspicuous absence of Brock and Misty. Ash is almost certainly going to battle them as a part of his Gym challenge, and yet they've given him two new companions. This would make sense if for some~ reason, Brock and Misty have new designs that they're not ready to show off yet...

That does make sense actually, all things considered in a lot of ways I'll give you that. We also saw Cerulean Gym, but no erika. Anothee thing, the Katanaka for Bonji could also be read as "regular old guy", and that just seems a bit too on the nose for someone who looks like a Hobo Red. I think maybe Kanto sequels with a Faller Red that is given his own character and is seperate from Contemporary Red could be really cool, and I don't mind if Faller Red from the GB era happens as it could potentially be a whole nother level of wtf that no one expected. Especially as an old guy who acts as a mentor to the new protags in a Kanto that has drastically expanded from the gen 3 portrayal, let alone the gen 1 incarnation.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Like I said on the movie thread: Too all those people who think Erika has grown or something, giving way to Kanto sequels-
They'd have an extremely had time explaining why Ash hasn't grown but Erika has.

 

[Silktree]

Like I said on the movie thread: Too all those people who think Erika has grown or something, giving way to Kanto sequels-
They'd have an extremely had time explaining why Ash hasn't grown but Erika has.

And as I said in that thread: Ash is an anime-exclusive character for all intents and purpose, who can basically never age. They don't need to explain anything about him; the theory is that the movie takes place in a different continuity where Ash starts his Kanto journey much later.