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Pokemon Stars Discussion Thread (Speculation)

Do you think that Stars is real or Fake

  • Real

    Votes: 61 59.8%
  • Fake

    Votes: 41 40.2%

  • Total voters
    102
  • Poll closed .
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On the one hand, I'd like something equivalent to DexNav back. Specifically the ability to find out just what unique species you already caught. On the other hand, even for a "Third Edition" that seems like a pipe dream.
 
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On the one hand, I'd like something equivalent to DexNav back. Specifically the ability to find out just what unique species you already caught. On the other hand, even for a "Third Edition" that seems like a pipe dream.
Yes. Sadly, DexNav appears to be an ORAS exclusive feature.
 
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I'm just gonna hope they decide to bring back the DexNav, plus it seems there's room for the return of walking Pokemon if they actually made walking and running animations for every Pokemon.
 
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Personally I hope Pokemon Stars makes Rockruff evolve into both Lycanroc depending on the time of the day. You know, the way we all would have expected it to work in the first place? The whole evolving exclusivity was kinda undermined anyway since you can catch both forms in each version anyway.

I feel like that was a really awkward exclusive that didn't need to be a thing in the first place.
 
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I personally feel like they should have just gone with Rockruff evolving into the Midday for at day time and the Midnight form at night. You're right about how the version exclusive thing was undermined, considering you could find the exclusives in the Vast Poni Canyon.

I'm kinda hoping if Lycanroc gets a 3rd form, it gains a secondary type.
 
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Sorry, but I don't think I could find it again there. It was a very long time ago, like datamining season I wanna call it? I could look around tumblr to see if its still around or anything.
Also can we please not go back to the Stars is 100% fake argument. We've had a good day or two full of productive conversations.
Necrozma with a form that turns into some kind of prismatic dragon thing? PLS PLS that would be so coooooolllll
 
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Necrozma with a form that turns into some kind of prismatic dragon thing? PLS PLS that would be so coooooolllll
It would be pretty cool and I'd love to see its story expanded. I mean, how does it tie into Solgaleo and Lunala if its meant to be a part of that trio.
 
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I haven't played the part of the game with Necrozma yet, but from what I know to me they only seem very loosely connected, all three being
Ancient Ultra Beasts who traveled to this world long before the others. If they could expand on that history I think it would make a good mascot for Stars.
 
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I mean, how does it tie into Solgaleo and Lunala if its meant to be a part of that trio.
I'm not really a huge fan of Necrozma's design, but this is the part I'm interested in. Because really, when you think about it, they're not a "trio" per se. Solgaleo and Lunala are just two diverging paths of the same base Pokémon, Cosmog. So in a sense, what we have is a duo - Cosmog and Necrozma. Cosmog absorbs light (in order to evolve), while Necrozma refracts it. Cosmog is only hypothesized to be an Ultra Beast, and Necrozma is only said to be "reminiscent" of them, and neither of them are registered as UBs by the Beast Balls. But the Cosmog line does have the ability to create Ultra Wormholes, and they're both said to come from another world, regardless.

In fact, why is Cosmog an evolving Pokémon, but not Necrozma? Could Necrozma be like Diancie (incidentally, another mineral-based Pokémon that attacks by reflecting light) - a mutation rather than an evolution? Was there at some point a Cosmog that evolved during an eclipse, maybe? Or that spent its life underground, unable to absorb solar/lunar energy (resulting in Necrozma being so unable to absorb light that it instead ricochets right off of it)? That might actually explain why Necrozma is a pure Psychic type (like Cosmog) - maybe the Steel and Ghost typings of Solgaleo and Lunala are expressions, or manifestations, of the solar/lunar energy they've absorbed, and Necrozma doesn't have any of that.
 
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I'm not really a huge fan of Necrozma's design, but this is the part I'm interested in. Because really, when you think about it, they're not a "trio" per se. Solgaleo and Lunala are just two diverging paths of the same base Pokémon, Cosmog. So in a sense, what we have is a duo - Cosmog and Necrozma. Cosmog absorbs light (in order to evolve), while Necrozma refracts it. Cosmog is only hypothesized to be an Ultra Beast, and Necrozma is only said to be "reminiscent" of them, and neither of them are registered as UBs by the Beast Balls. But the Cosmog line does have the ability to create Ultra Wormholes, and they're both said to come from another world, regardless.

In fact, why is Cosmog an evolving Pokémon, but not Necrozma? Could Necrozma be like Diancie (incidentally, another mineral-based Pokémon that attacks by reflecting light) - a mutation rather than an evolution? Was there at some point a Cosmog that evolved during an eclipse, maybe? Or that spent its life underground, unable to absorb solar/lunar energy (resulting in Necrozma being so unable to absorb light that it instead ricochets right off of it)? That might actually explain why Necrozma is a pure Psychic type (like Cosmog) - maybe the Steel and Ghost typings of Solgaleo and Lunala are expressions, or manifestations, of the solar/lunar energy they've absorbed, and Necrozma doesn't have any of that.
So Zygarde, who has a blatant connection to Xerneas/Yveltal shouldn't be elaborated on but Necrozma, a legendary with no explicit connection to Solgaleo/Lunala, should? Seems legit. The hypocrisy is real with this game.
 
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So Zygarde, who has a blatant connection to Xerneas/Yveltal shouldn't be elaborated on but Necrozma, a legendary with no explicit connection to Solgaleo/Lunala, should? Seems legit. The hypocrisy is real with this game.
Again, Zygarde's issue isn't just a Zygarde issue. It's a trio-wide issue. Xerneas and Yveltal could be wiped from XY entirely and basically nothing would change. Xerneas and Yveltal are irrelevant, and consequently, Zygarde is too. (And I have said before that it would probably work better as a standalone Legendary like Heatran or Victini - a lone representative of a broad concept.)

You can wipe Solgaleo/Lunala from SM, but you'd end up with an entirely different game. There's actually a story to them - and not just them, because they are also connected to the Ultra Beasts and alternative dimensions - all of which Necrozma can get involved in. Zygarde would have a difficult time having any worthwhile impact on a story that doesn't exist.
 
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What about Groudon and Kyogre? or Dialga and Palkia? how relevant are theyto their respective games then?
 
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What about Groudon and Kyogre? or Dialga and Palkia? how relevant are theyto their respective games then?
Groudon and Kyogre are very relevant. Dialga and Palkia... I guess? I feel that it would make more sense for Cyrus to simply summon Giratina itself to cause annihilation. Platinum's plot could have worked without Dialga and Palkia.
 
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I do feel like Yveltal and Xerneas are the least plot relevant of all Legendaries, as well as Zygarde, who not only never got Pokemon Z like some expected, but nothing to really expand on in Pokemon Sun and Moon. There was no hidden event or story element, or even any explanation for why Zygarde was present in Alola.
 
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Again, Zygarde's issue isn't just a Zygarde issue. It's a trio-wide issue. Xerneas and Yveltal could be wiped from XY entirely and basically nothing would change. Xerneas and Yveltal are irrelevant, and consequently, Zygarde is too. (And I have said before that it would probably work better as a standalone Legendary like Heatran or Victini - a lone representative of a broad concept.)

You can wipe Solgaleo/Lunala from SM, but you'd end up with an entirely different game. There's actually a story to them - and not just them, because they are also connected to the Ultra Beasts and alternative dimensions - all of which Necrozma can get involved in. Zygarde would have a difficult time having any worthwhile impact on a story that doesn't exist.
Eh, not really. Ultimately, Solgaleo/Lunala end up being a glorified key to Ultra Space, they don't really have a lot of relevance themselves. The story is more about Lusamine/Lillie/Gladion's family and the Ultra Beasts than Solgaleo/Lunala, if you got rid of them the only thing that would change is how you end up getting to Lusamine in Ultra Space.
 
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What about Groudon and Kyogre? or Dialga and Palkia? how relevant are theyto their respective games then?
Groudon and Kyogre are pretty important to their stories. Nature is a big thing in the Hoenn games, and they represent the possibility of nature being thrown out of balance. They were also the original example of "ultra-powerful Legendary Pokémon that are sought by the evil team," so it was a novel idea for the games at that time. Of course, Rayquaza was basically useless in Emerald. They wouldn't end up doing anything interesting with it until ORAS. In Emerald, it's just a deus ex machina, and it doesn't even incite much of a revision of the lore about Groudon and Kyogre - what we basically get is Wallace saying, "Oh yeah, and in case ya' didn't knooooooow, there's a third super-ancient Pokémon that calms them down, even though we previously said that they were calmed by the Red and Blue Orbs."

If you ask me, Dialga and Palkia were a cheap, overinflated rehash of Groudon and Kyogre. Giratina could probably have carried the plot on its own, in a way such as Silktree suggests. Certainly it would make sense for Cyrus to try destroying the universe of matter with a creature of antimatter.

Eh, not really. Ultimately, Solgaleo/Lunala end up being a glorified key to Ultra Space, they don't really have a lot of relevance themselves. The story is more about Lusamine/Lillie/Gladion's family and the Ultra Beasts than Solgaleo/Lunala, if you got rid of them the only thing that would change is how you end up getting to Lusamine in Ultra Space.
Except Nebby being the key to Ultra Space is far, far more deeply rooted in the plot than Xerneas/Yveltal being a battery for the weapon was. Frankly, the weapon already had like, three methods of activation - the key, the power plant electricity, and the life energy of the Pokémon attached to the menhirs. Xerneas/Yveltal couldn't be more redundant. Nebby, on the other hand, is the only way for people to enter Ultra Space (or the only reliable way anyhow; they can't just sit around waiting for one to pop up at random). Therefore, Lusamine has a reason to want it, and Lillie has a reason to want to protect it. This affects the character motivations in a way that Xerneas/Yveltal simply do not.

Also, to return to a point, I actually think it's more worth telling what the point of the third Legendary is when the connection isn't obvious. Pretty much anybody could look at the information we had available to us in XY and discern that Zygarde keeps Xerneas and Yveltal in order, probably because they periodically release/absorb life energy, and going too far in either direction would obviously be a bad thing, so having a mediator is logical.

I mean, even with B2W2 - lots of people kinda already figured that Kyurem was the leftovers of the original dragon. What does B2W2 tell us? That it's the leftovers of the original dragon. Surprise surprise.

It's hard to tell exactly what kind of relationship Necrozma share with Cosmog and the other UBs. It's not something that can be inferred with any relative certainty, which calls for some elaboration.
 
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Except Nebby being the key to Ultra Space is far, far more deeply rooted in the plot than Xerneas/Yveltal being a battery for the weapon was. Frankly, the weapon already had like, three methods of activation - the key, the power plant electricity, and the life energy of the Pokémon attached to the menhirs. Xerneas/Yveltal couldn't be more redundant. Nebby, on the other hand, is the only way for people to enter Ultra Space (or the only reliable way anyhow; they can't just sit around waiting for one to pop up at random). Therefore, Lusamine has a reason to want it, and Lillie has a reason to want to protect it. This affects the character motivations in a way that Xerneas/Yveltal simply do not.
It's not really deeply rooted in the storyline if it can easily be swapped out for something else though, and Nebby could be. Literally, you could replace Nebby with a turkey sandwich and it wouldn't really change things that much, Lusamine sure doesn't care whether it's Nebby or a turkey sandwich that opens the portal to Ultra Space, she just wants the portal open, and Lillie just wants to keep the means to opening the Ultra Space out of Lusamine's hands specifically because she doesn't care. Solgaleo/Lunala's connection to Ultra Space isn't inherent to their identity, literally anything can serve that purpose.

Also, to return to a point, I actually think it's more worth telling what the point of the third Legendary is when the connection isn't obvious. Pretty much anybody could look at the information we had available to us in XY and discern that Zygarde keeps Xerneas and Yveltal in order, probably because they periodically release/absorb life energy, and going too far in either direction would obviously be a bad thing, so having a mediator is logical.

I mean, even with B2W2 - lots of people kinda already figured that Kyurem was the leftovers of the original dragon. What does B2W2 tell us? That it's the leftovers of the original dragon. Surprise surprise.

It's hard to tell exactly what kind of relationship Necrozma share with Cosmog and the other UBs. It's not something that can be inferred with any relative certainty, which calls for some elaboration.
You literally can't say that until it actually happens. They're the ones who write the storyline, so they can add whatever elements to their lore that they want. Plus, just because something has more mystery behind it doesn't mean that they'll solve all of them in a satisfying way, they could easily end up leaving in plot holes, failing to connect elements in the storyline, or doing so in a convoluted way. Again, this all comes down to how clever the writers are. And Pokemon's writing isn't exactly Shakespeare level, so they could easily mess this up.

Ask yourself this: have they ever really done anything truly surprising with the mascots? Rayquaza was the only other major legendary in Emerald not related to anything else and has an ability that counters Groudon/Kyogre's, so it's role was fairly obvious. Giratina's lore was hinted in its DP dex entry. Kyurem as you said was an obvious candidate for a relationship to the Original Dragon, we just didn't know there would be 2 forms in 2 versions. Really the only surprise so far has been Zygarde being made up of cells, there was nothing hinting to that at all, just that it monitors Kalos and has a "secret power". Necrozma's lore could literally be something simple like "it protects the world from Ultra Beasts blah blah blah".
 
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It's not really deeply rooted in the storyline if it can easily be swapped out for something else though, and Nebby could be. Literally, you could replace Nebby with a turkey sandwich and it wouldn't really change things that much, Lusamine sure doesn't care whether it's Nebby or a turkey sandwich that opens the portal to Ultra Space, she just wants the portal open, and Lillie just wants to keep the means to opening the Ultra Space out of Lusamine's hands specifically because she doesn't care. Solgaleo/Lunala's connection to Ultra Space isn't inherent to their identity, literally anything can serve that purpose.
I think you're ignoring the intentionality behind using Nebby in that role though. Nebby wasn't just the power source, it was the mechanism. And later Solgaleo/Lunala are the only creatures we see capable of opening an Ultra Wormhole. There's clearly meant to be a connection between them and Ultra Space, it's not just a "oh by the way they can do this" sort of deal. And then we have a legendary who also appears to have some connection with Ultra Beasts. After Game Freak proved they can in fact tell a coherent and engaging story with legitimate twists, I would be shocked if they didn't follow up on the three of them in a future game. I don't think we can use previous game traditions and tendencies to determine exactly what this role will be, because Sun and Moon broke so many of those already especially when it comes to plot.

So on the topic of Zygarde, yeah, they could have/should have handled it better, definitely. They teased us with it for months in CoroCoro just to have it be a little sidequest thing you can opt into. But Gen 6 was a mess and I think they knew that, so if they were going to be making new games with new Pokémon anyway I think focusing primarily on the new rather than the old was a good choice. The Zygarde cells are basically just leftovers from a plot that was going nowhere, but there are still so many possibilities with Cosmog and Necrozma so it would be a shame for them not to follow up on that.
 
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Nebby is far more than a portal to the Ultra Space. It is an integral part of Lillie's storyline and character development.

That, in turn, makes the Cosmog line more interesting than most mascots out there. Not everything should boil down to "this legendary has this amazing power". That said, they could explain Nebby's connection to the sun and moon in the future.
 
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It's not really deeply rooted in the storyline if it can easily be swapped out for something else though, and Nebby could be. Literally, you could replace Nebby with a turkey sandwich and it wouldn't really change things that much, Lusamine sure doesn't care whether it's Nebby or a turkey sandwich that opens the portal to Ultra Space, she just wants the portal open, and Lillie just wants to keep the means to opening the Ultra Space out of Lusamine's hands specifically because she doesn't care. Solgaleo/Lunala's connection to Ultra Space isn't inherent to their identity, literally anything can serve that purpose.
Sorry, but no. Lillie wants to keep Cosmog out of Lusamine's hands because it's a living creature and Lusamine doesn't care that it has to die in order to open the portal. Lillie isn't principally concerned with merely keeping Lusamine from going to Ultra Space, because that in itself doesn't harm anybody. If it only required some inanimate McGuffin, the storyline would have to be rewritten. Lillie would lose the parallel to Gladion stealing Type: Null for similar empathetic reasons, and she'd have to object to Lusamine's goal for different reasons rather than the protection of a living being, and the scene where we save Nebby from the Spearow would be out ("Oh no! I dropped my Wormhole Key on the bridge and those Spearow are going to mercilessly fly away with it!"), which subsequently necessitates a change in the circumstances of our encounter with Tapu Koko.

Removing Xerneas/Yveltal from XY would only fundamentally change the confrontation with Lysandre at the secret HQ. You'd probably have to cut the battle on the lowest floor, and Lysandre wouldn't throw on his weird bug-camera outfit. (And frankly, I'd call that an improvement.)

You literally can't say that until it actually happens. They're the ones who write the storyline, so they can add whatever elements to their lore that they want.
Speaking in terms of general principle here. I have an easier time letting something like Zygarde's situation slide because the dynamic is exceedingly easy to infer anyway. Whereas a less-clearly-associated Pokémon could be any number of things, and there's just no way to know until they give us more information to work with.

Plus, just because something has more mystery behind it doesn't mean that they'll solve all of them in a satisfying way, they could easily end up leaving in plot holes, failing to connect elements in the storyline, or doing so in a convoluted way.
I didn't say that any of this wasn't a possibility.

Ask yourself this: have they ever really done anything truly surprising with the mascots? Rayquaza was the only other major legendary in Emerald not related to anything else and has an ability that counters Groudon/Kyogre's, so it's role was fairly obvious. Giratina's lore was hinted in its DP dex entry. Kyurem as you said was an obvious candidate for a relationship to the Original Dragon, we just didn't know there would be 2 forms in 2 versions. Really the only surprise so far has been Zygarde being made up of cells, there was nothing hinting to that at all, just that it monitors Kalos and has a "secret power". Necrozma's lore could literally be something simple like "it protects the world from Ultra Beasts blah blah blah".
It could be that, but as you say, in most previous cases they gave us plenty of clues to work with. Necrozma's sitting at about where Giratina was - we know it comes from a parallel dimension and shares traits with other important Pokémon, but people had lots of guesses about how Giratina pertained to Dialga and Palkia exactly. It representing antimatter actually was somewhat unexpected, if I recall. I seem to remember it representing death was one of the leading theories.

Hell, a fair number of people weren't convinced that it'd actually end up being Giratina on the box.
 
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