Pokemon Stars Discussion Thread (Speculation)

[Silktree]

Stars has not been ruled out... Nintendo called the DS a third pillar (meaning that it wasn't supposed to replace the GBA) for a good while, yet they announced Diamond and Pearl around the DS' launch in late 2004.

If anything, they want people to keep buying Sun and Moon for now. What that means for the rest of the year remains to be seen. They could release Switch for both systems, but I question the point when the differences from Sun and Moon are going to be minor on the 3DS.

Also, you're basically regurgitating old PR when the more recent news is that the Switch's producer does view the system as being appropriate for handheld gamers.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

Stars has not been ruled out... Nintendo called the DS a third pillar (meaning that it wasn't supposed to replace the GBA) for a good while, yet they announced Diamond and Pearl around the DS' launch in late 2004.

If anything, they want people to keep buying Sun and Moon for now. What that means for the rest of the year remains to be seen.

They could release Switch for both systems, but I question the point when the differences from Sun and Moon are going to be minor on the 3DS.

In a way it has, as Nintendo stated that the 3DS will stay active for time being, as said previously. Also, yes they did announce Gen 4 for DS late 2004, but it took 2 years after the DS's release to finally come out, and other countries got Pokemon Emerald for GBA during that time.
As for the differences from Sun and Moon, if I'm wrong and Stars does come out, I'm saying what Nintendo did in the past - add a bit to the storyline, "integrate" Pokemon, etc.

 

[Silktree]

In a way it has, as Nintendo stated that the 3DS will stay active for time being, as said previously. Also, yes they did announce Gen 4 for DS late 2004, but it took 2 years after the DS's release to finally come out, and other countries got Pokemon Emerald for GBA during that time.

Stay active doesn't mean that it will keep getting high-tier games 9 months from now (at least exclusive ones). My point about Diamond and Pearl is that Nintendo made contradictory statements about the DS. They didn't just say "the DS will be a third-pillar for the next two years". Likewise, they aren't being consistent with the 3DS-Switch transition now, for the simple reason that the 3DS still has some life in it and they don't have to bury it just yet.

And it should be pretty clear that Generation VIII won't be released next year, so why should this generation follow what happened in 2005 (especially when Emerald was released before the DS in Japan)? If Game Freak want to do something with the Switch by late 2018, that means a mid-generation transition and they may as well start it this year with a low-risk third version.

As for the differences from Sun and Moon, if I'm wrong and Stars does come out, I'm saying what Nintendo did in the past - add a bit to the storyline, "integrate" Pokemon, etc.

Otherwise known as minor differences. New hardware is the only thing that would make Stars not look like a lazy effort.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

Stay active doesn't mean that it will keep getting high-tier games 9 months from now (at least exclusive ones). My point about Diamond and Pearl is that Nintendo made contradictory statements about the DS. They didn't just say "the DS will be a third-pillar for the next two years". Likewise, they aren't being consistent with the 3DS-Switch transition now, for the simple reason that the 3DS still has some life in it and they don't have to bury it just yet.

And it should be pretty clear that Generation VIII won't be released next year, so why should this generation follow what happened in 2005 (especially when Emerald was released before the DS in Japan)? If Game Freak want to do something with the Switch by late 2018, that means a mid-generation transition and they may as well start it this year with a low-risk third version.

But we have no proof Game Freak will make a new main-series Pokemon game this year, or next year, or ever. Yes, they aren't being consistent with the 3DS-Switch transition right now, but I have stated multiple times that all games for the Switch, as far as I know, all either originated on consoles or were on consoles many times before. We haven't got a single handheld-only game for Switch, and it may happen in the future, but just not now.
Also, if everyone is pointing out the inconsistency of the DS and GBA, I would like to point out the fact that Gen V continued to be on the DS even after the 3DS was released. And yes, the 3DS has DS compatibility, but the true 3DS Pokemon games came out 2 years after the 3DS was released, though it has been planned since Gen V. I never said Gen 8 would come out next year, maybe within the next 4 years is good, but Gen 8 coming out in 2019 does make a bit more sense for both a Switch release (may be being planned right now...?) and a good 3 years for Gen VII.

 

[Silktree]

Waiting more than 2.5 years into the 3DS' lifetime to release main series games for that system didn't do anyone any favors. Generation V is the worst selling generation because of this, and the 3DS didn't have a delightful start. And yes, the Switch not being backwards compatible should at least make Game Freak consider a multiplatform release.

And can we stop pretending that Stars is just a baseless rumor? Eurogamer is a serious gaming site that leaked the Switch's concept and core features back in July. You can remain skeptical, but to dismiss the source is just ignorant, frankly.

but I have stated multiple times that all games for the Switch, as far as I know, all either originated on consoles or were on consoles many times before. We haven't got a single handheld-only game for Switch, and it may happen in the future, but just not now.

You know that those are just empty words. The system hasn't been released yet and the only handheld series to speak of is Pokemon.

Suffice to Fire Emblem has been successful on the 3DS more than on any home console, so its transition to the Switch should be telling in itself. Likewise for Shin Megami Tensei, although that is a third party series.

 

[DoctorWhy]

Still slow, nevertheless.

Oh I don't disagree with that. I'm still pretty disappointed with Nintendo. They're going in the right direction, but they're still lagging behind the competition.


Personally, I think I am expecting one of these to happen:

-"Stars" this year on the Switch, DP remakes in 2018, Gen VIII 2019/2020
-"Stars" this year on the Switch, Gen VIII in 2018, DP remakes 2019

 

[Silktree]

Oh I don't disagree with that. I'm still pretty disappointed with Nintendo. They're going in the right direction, but they're still lagging behind the competition.

They don't have any competition in the handheld department, so there's that. Once the Switch gets a price cut or a more affordable model is released, the value proposition will look better.

I won't buy it this year, myself. I can personally do without Stars, but that doesn't make it a bad idea.

 

[DoctorWhy]

They don't have any competition in the handheld department, so there's that. Once the Switch gets a price cut or a more affordable model is released, the value proposition will look better.

I won't buy it this year, myself. I can personally do without Stars, but that doesn't make it a bad idea.

I agree. I think Stars is actually a pretty good idea and would be perfect on the Switch. I was just complaining about the lack of power regarding a AAA game like Zelda. For Pokemon it should hopefully be plenty. Stars will not only provide a much higher quality Alola game, but also help GF get used to the system and make Gen VIII even better!

And same here, I haven't decided when I'll get Switch. I considered getting it in March for Zelda, but I might just play Zelda on my Wii U instead since I already have that. I would want to play Stars eventually, almost definitely, though I don't need it on release or anything. I think I'll get a Switch around Christmas this year at the absolute latest.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

Silktree and others reading this, I'm warning this is just a long rant. If you don't want to respond just ignore me. K? k.

You know that those are just empty words. The system hasn't been released yet and the only handheld series to speak of is Pokemon.

Suffice to Fire Emblem has been successful on the 3DS more than on any home console, so its transition to the Switch should be telling in itself. Likewise for Shin Megami Tensei, although that is a third party series.

Which is what I said in a previous post. Plus FE has originated on home console, so my point still stands.
Also, has Game Freak ever changed handhelds in the middle of a generation? No. They could have done that with Emerald and Gen V, but they didn't. Emerald may have been in development since 2003/2004 and released in Japan 2004, but the DS has been in development before that (announced, kinda, in 2003). They could have put Emerald on the DS, but they didn't (though they did have backwards compatibility ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). Same for Gen V games.

Waiting more than 2.5 years into the 3DS' lifetime to release main series games for that system didn't do anyone any favors. Generation V is the worst selling generation because of this, and the 3DS didn't have a delightful start. And yes, the Switch not being backwards compatible should at least make Game Freak consider a multiplatform release.

And can we stop pretending that Stars is just a baseless rumor? Eurogamer is a serious gaming site that leaked the Switch's concept and core features back in July. You can remain skeptical, but to dismiss the source is just ignorant, frankly.

I never said Stars was a baseless rumor. Eurogamer may have confirmed it, but there are many other sources that goes against it. It does have some evidence backing it up, but not enough. However, I never dismissed the source, I never said that Stars will definitely not be released, I said in a way it wouldn't. I said, in a way, it was ruled out. I wasn't 100% saying it was ruled out.
Also, Emerald and FireRed/LeafGreen sold worse than Black 2 White 2. Yes, the Gen V games may have the least sold, but then again it was
1. Hated by many Genwunners who have played the games since Gen 1
2. came out during the 3DS days, meaning that Gen IV had more time to be sold than Gen V
3. Had the same region played at different times, making people (like me, almost) suppose Black 2 White 2 were just the "third game", but as 2 different versions cuz GF is running out of ideas.
And here's the thing: Emerald is the second least sold "third" game (about 6 million), behind Platinum (about 7 million), Yellow(about 9 million), and in front of Crystal (about 3 million), and FireRed/LeafGreen are the least sold remakes (about 11 million), behind HeartGold/SoulSilver (about 12 million), and ORAS (about 14 million). However, despite releasing at the end of the life of the DS, B2W2 sold about 8 million copies, which is more than Emerald at least, and BW sold about 15 million copies, which is better than FireRed/LeafGreen (though it is a new game, so that's expected...). Sales were still pretty successful, despite the console becoming out-of-date.
As for the backwards compatibility problem, Pokemon has never been on 2 different consoles, which means that this will be the first time Pokemon will be on 2 separate consoles. And, judging by the fact Nintendo and GF never learn from past mistakes, (Game Cube and Wii U much?). Multiplatform release? Seriously? Would GF ever do that? Maybe, but it's going to cause some faulty communications when trading and battling, cuz both consoles have different systems, one runs faster, other is slower.
Finally, Pokemon may have helped the 3DS sales, but another big cause was that the price was cut down, back before Gen VI even existed. To be honest, I'm not willing to pay $300 for the Switch just for 1 Pokemon game, even if there are other good releases out. I bought the 3DS (well, 2DS) when there were a plethora of games I wanted, like Smash 4, X, ORAS, 3D World, etc.).

They don't have any competition in the handheld department, so there's that.

PSVita could have been a better competitor had it actually made "newer" versions of itself every few years or so. That's the reason 3DS has competition - heck in 2012 they both had some moderate competition before the 3DS won.


Done with argument/rant (drops mic). I need a life

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

Silktree and others reading this, I'm warning this is just a long rant. If you don't want to respond just ignore me. K? k.

Which is what I said in a previous post. Plus FE has originated on home console, so my point still stands.
Also, has Game Freak ever changed handhelds in the middle of a generation? No. They could have done that with Emerald and Gen V, but they didn't. Emerald may have been in development since 2003/2004 and released in Japan 2004, but the DS has been in development before that (announced, kinda, in 2003). They could have put Emerald on the DS, but they didn't (though they did have backwards compatibility ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). Same for Gen V games.

I never said Stars was a baseless rumor. Eurogamer may have confirmed it, but there are many other sources that goes against it. It does have some evidence backing it up, but not enough. However, I never dismissed the source, I never said that Stars will definitely not be released, I said in a way it wouldn't. I said, in a way, it was ruled out. I wasn't 100% saying it was ruled out.
Also, Emerald and FireRed/LeafGreen sold worse than Black 2 White 2. Yes, the Gen V games may have the least sold, but then again it was
1. Hated by many Genwunners who have played the games since Gen 1
2. came out during the 3DS days, meaning that Gen IV had more time to be sold than Gen V
3. Had the same region played at different times, making people (like me, almost) suppose Black 2 White 2 were just the "third game", but as 2 different versions cuz GF is running out of ideas.
And here's the thing: Emerald is the second least sold "third" game (about 6 million), behind Platinum (about 7 million), Yellow(about 9 million), and in front of Crystal (about 3 million), and FireRed/LeafGreen are the least sold remakes (about 11 million), behind HeartGold/SoulSilver (about 12 million), and ORAS (about 14 million). However, despite releasing at the end of the life of the DS, B2W2 sold about 8 million copies, which is more than Emerald at least, and BW sold about 15 million copies, which is better than FireRed/LeafGreen (though it is a new game, so that's expected...). Sales were still pretty successful, despite the console becoming out-of-date.
As for the backwards compatibility problem, Pokemon has never been on 2 different consoles, which means that this will be the first time Pokemon will be on 2 separate consoles. And, judging by the fact Nintendo and GF never learn from past mistakes, (Game Cube and Wii U much?). Multiplatform release? Seriously? Would GF ever do that? Maybe, but it's going to cause some faulty communications when trading and battling, cuz both consoles have different systems, one runs faster, other is slower.
Finally, Pokemon may have helped the 3DS sales, but another big cause was that the price was cut down, back before Gen VI even existed. To be honest, I'm not willing to pay $300 for the Switch just for 1 Pokemon game, even if there are other good releases out. I bought the 3DS (well, 2DS) when there were a plethora of games I wanted, like Smash 4, X, ORAS, 3D World, etc.).

PSVita could have been a better competitor had it actually made "newer" versions of itself every few years or so. That's the reason 3DS has competition - heck in 2012 they both had some moderate competition before the 3DS won.


Done with argument/rant (drops mic). I need a life

At this point, there is barely any evidence at all that goes against the Pokémon Stars rumour. There is currently a lot more evidence for Stars than against Stars.

You may not be willing to pay $300 for one Pokémon game, but what about future Pokémon games on the Switch? Pokémon will likely move to Nintendo Switch with gen VIII if not Pokémon Stars, and then you'll have multiple Pokémon games for the console. Also, there are several games currently in development for Nintendo Switch, is there nothing yet that interests you?

 

[Soki]

Also, has Game Freak ever changed handhelds in the middle of a generation? No. They could have done that with Emerald and Gen V, but they didn't. Emerald may have been in development since 2003/2004 and released in Japan 2004, but the DS has been in development before that (announced, kinda, in 2003). They could have put Emerald on the DS, but they didn't (though they did have backwards compatibility ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). Same for Gen V games.

And Super Smash Bros has never been on a handheld, until SSB4. And customization wasn't a thing, until Gen VI. And gyms never changed, until gen VII. Things change. Companies change. People change. Change is a thing.

The 'it hasn't been done before' argument is just...not an argument.

I never said Stars was a baseless rumor. Eurogamer may have confirmed it, but there are many other sources that goes against it.

I would like to see a list of those sources. The only things people have been saying are 'proof' against Stars are those interviews in which it's said that the 3DS isn't at its end yet, which is no proof at all. I haven't seen a single source that outright says that there will be no Pokémon game on the Switch or that the next Pokémon game will be on the 3DS again.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

And Super Smash Bros has never been on a handheld, until SSB4. And customization wasn't a thing, until Gen VI. And gyms never changed, until gen VII. Things change. Companies change. People change. Change is a thing.

The 'it hasn't been done before' argument is just...not an argument.

True, but change is a risky thing. Smash 4 on a handheld was not a good as the Wii U version, even though it has gotten so much copies sold on it. What's used competitively, Smash 3DS or Smash Wii U?
The trials, heck Sun/Moon as a whole was also a big risk. GF didn't know how much people would love Sun/Moon after these changes, but in the end it was well paid off. However, there are still people who dislike the change, and yes SM may be the fastest selling Pokemon game, but, let's face it, without Pokemon Go it wouldn't have sold that fast. If GF does change SM even further in Stars (or at least minor changes), there will be some more people who would not want to play the game. Plus, it's the 3rd game, which usually sells less, and even though it's on the Switch it's nearly the same thing as SM. It would not boost sales for the Switch, as it's still playable on the 3DS.

The only things people have been saying are 'proof' against Stars are those interviews in which it's said that the 3DS isn't at its end yet, which is no proof at all

At this point, there is barely any evidence at all that goes against the Pokémon Stars rumour. There is currently a lot more evidence for Stars than against Stars.

Then, my friends, show me hard, worthwhile evidence that Stars will come out. All I've seen are really empty evidence that are either vague or are non-consistent.
May have exaggerated on evidence not supporting Stars, but Stars evidence aren't as much as you think it is.

 

[Silktree]

Eurogamer is vague or inconsistent? Because you say so?

 

[Cookies and Creme]

Eurogamer is vague or inconsistent? Because you say so?

No. Because I don't think its evidence is enough to prove that Stars will exist.

 

[Silktree]

Except you said "evidence". No one is talking about incontrovertible proof here.

For heaven's sake, the only thing that can count as proof is an announcement. It's still 3-5 months too early for that.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

I took apart Eurogamer's article and here's my proof:
"Multiple sources tell Eurogamer the game is already well into development, will launch in 2017, and currently holds the codename of Pokémon Stars."
What sources? You never list them
"Earlier generations of Pokémon games have featured a third title launched later with expanded features - Pokémon Yellow followed Game Boy originals Red and Blue to start this trend, which continued through until Pokémon Platinum followed Diamond and Pearl on DS."
But have you considered why the last 2 generations never had the third title?
"including this HD in-game model for new bird Pokémon Pikipek. We've heard this is for the Switch edition:"
Once again, heard, but where?
"I'm told that GameFreak largely paused work on the Switch version a couple of months ago to polish Sun and Moon in time for their launch this month, but that work on Stars will now resume with the development of features not found in the 3DS versions."
Whose telling you? Again, no proof
"And there will be reason to play both: Pokémon will be tradable between Sun/Moon and Stars via the Pokémon Bank app. We've also heard suggestion there will be more creatures to collect in the Switch version, although not all of our sources could confirm this."
But if Pokemon Bank is on both Switch and 3DS, how would these 2 connect? And why not just do a normal trade? Also, once again what source are you talking about?
"'We've always made [main] Pokémon games on Nintendo hardware," Ohmori said. "Something which has been important to us recently has been the communication and wireless features. So when we consider whether we should bring something to one thing or another, it really depends on is the hardware itself.'"
I mean, the communication feature on the Switch is paid, and yes, it may not be for Pokemon, but if so, why bother adding it for other games?


Also, this article seems confident it will be released, however other sources say that it may come out, such as
It looks like 'Pokémon Stars' might be coming to the Switch after all - might be coming, not will be coming
The Pokémon Bank Opens a Cutscene in Sun and Moon that May Hint at Pokémon Stars' Existence - hint at Pokemon Star's Existence

This is the only article I have found that states that Pokemon Stars will come out. There is not enough proof for it, and maybe, in the next few months, we will get the proof we need. But for now, I am not convinced Stars will come out.

I'm not saying Eurogamer is 100% untrustworthy. This article is more of a rumor than confirming Pokemon Stars, and you got to face the fact that even the most trustworthy website will have at least one or two faulty articles.

 

[Morningstar]

Then, my friends, show me hard, worthwhile evidence that Stars will come out. All I've seen are really empty evidence that are either vague or are non-consistent.
May have exaggerated on evidence not supporting Stars, but Stars evidence aren't as much as you think it is.

Isn't there a trademark filed for Stars.

In any rate, The thing is, Stars is a rumor that had been crafted with a lot of plausible deniability. Due to a specific factor: That its a code name. That means that if it changes, Eurogamer and other people rising on the theory would claim that they were right, at least as long as other things can be proven as true. And if it doesn't, well the evidence would had been obvious. And its not like Game freak would come out and reveal codenames.

This is why most early attempts at disproving Stars center on its platform of choice, the Switch. the fatal flaw in this rumor would be that if it stays on the 3DS, than the rumor would have an opening that can be exploited to find further contradictions, ultimately condemning it. A comparison would be with Lockstin's theory, which assumes that there is an overt alchemy reference, that Marshadow would be different than what we expected, more blatant crossovers, and oh yeah the Pokepocalypse. Sun/Moon did not turn out to be Fullmetal Alchemist with Pokemon, Marshadow defied those expectations, the crossovers were just cameos with only 2 having more plot significance and Arceus did not suddenly decide to end the planet (this on top of the possibility of him being based on YHVH being on shaky ground). The earliest hole being the Alchemy theme, specifically centering around Rockruff and that mistranslation.

In spite of that, Game Freak could come out and said that what they put out was considered for the Switch, but the plans changed midway, meaning that plausible deniability can be taken there.

With that said, the only hard evidence that can disprove this theory would be a jump to remakes. However we do have something that points towards a Switch Pokemon game. The walking animations, but of course that could simply imply that it was intended for the Switch at one point, but plans changed when Nintendo didn't release them early enough. There were cases where games that were meant for an upcoming console/peripheral had to be released and change to remove functionality with those due to not being released on time for them.

 

[PurplePopplio]

Speaking of Lockstin's theory:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bG-cKDGjt5c&itct=CEoQpDAYACITCLvF5pqNg9ICFRyCVQodfucEVzILYzQtb3ZlcnZpZXdaGFVDNnNqa3ZEenlZMEo4bzdrMktjNXJFdw%3D%3D&gl=ZA&hl=en-GB&client=mv-google

 

[Cookies and Creme]

One question: Has Lockstin ever been correct? Yes, I have watched his videos, but they are merely speculation and are still faulty, as he's just a youtuber. He's not a good arguement.

My final statement: Since none of us can change each other's opinions, as we are just stating either exaggerated facts (like me) or vague arguements, I'm just going to say this: I don't believe Stars will come out just yet, but if there is more proof in the future, then I'll accept it. For now, there is no hard evidence it will come out.

 

[Morningstar]

One question: Has Lockstin ever been correct? Yes, I have watched his videos, but they are merely speculation and are still faulty, as he's just a youtuber. He's not a good arguement.

I was using him as a reference for comparison's sake, not for any precedences of having correct predictions,but as an example of how one hole in a theory would lead to more contradictions and the more contradictions you find, the less likely the theory is, until it would ultimately be disproven.